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Auntie Prism
(stardust savant)
02/25/11 04:37 PM
Help Glitterbot Get to College!!! (05/03) [re: ] Reply to this post

It's the TW class of '03, and Wraith2 and Glitterbot are considering their university educations. Noting the financial burden of higher education, Wraith2's 'Get Glitterbot to College' campaign begins shakily, and is derailed altogether by the news that eraserhead paid for his purebred dog, Mimi.


(Some relevant subject lines appear in square brackets after the poster's name.)


Wraith2: That's right, fellow TWers, sister Glitterbot is in dire straits. Her parents unfortunate financial condition coupled with Hampshire College's meagre financial aid and scholarship offers are putting dearest Glitterbot's future in danger. Her creative potential is being squandered in a sub-par community college in an unsavory and dangerous section of San Fransisco.

But it's not too late! Disaster can be averted! All you have to do is contact either Wraith2 or Glitterbot with your pledge of support. Pledges at the 150 dollar level will receive the classic Glitterbot tote bag (well, not really, but any contribution will get you a nice thank-you letter).

Give 'til it hurts...for Glitterbot's sake! (Eraserhead and Remade/Remodeled: this means YOU! )

anisette: [Help Glitterbot Make a Collage!!!]: Here's my first contribution to the Glitterbot Collage Fund!



Good luck Littlebot! I hope you and Lexy can find a way to be together!

power2charm: [Why not get some bang your buck, 'bot!]: Gbot should go to a UC and be content. Frankly, almost every state school in California would offer Glitterbot as good an education as Hampshire at less than half the tuition. I opine this as someone who lived in California for a number of years (Santa Rosa) and now lives in CT, 100 miles south of the Pioneer Valley. The point being, I've gotten drift of uni reputations in both areas.

Much of what one pays for with private schools is reputation and alum networking. With all due best wishes to you, wraith, everyone knows that Hampshire is the poor child in the Pioneer Valley. Same price as Williams and Amherst, but not even close in rep.

The entire upper tier of the California State system is held in high esteem nationally, and many of the lower tier schools - San Luis Obispo, San Diego State - are well regarded regionally.

Consider this too, 'bot: If you are not rich, and go to a "rich kids school" you are asking for heartache. Why go someplace where you can't compete? This was my fate at St. Olaf many moons ago, and frankly those midwestern lib arts schools are a lot less blue-blood than similar colleges out east.

You've been warned.

Ohramona: [Get higher, cheaper]: Yeah, you can get as educated as you want to, wherever you go, without breaking the bank.

Money maven Clark Howard highly recommends spending a couple years at a community college, then going on to your 4-year school, for value. And he knows value!

I'll do everything I can to help get skeezix through college, but I haven't saved a dime for this and I don't plan to. It's just not in my budget. Here in Georgia, we have something called the Hope scholarship, on which any kid who finishes high school with a 3.0 GPA can get tuition and books for any land grant college. You can apply this money for private schools also.

My advice: Borrow absolutely as little as possible to get through school. Live cheap, work, co-op, do internships, etc. Starting out into "the real world" with student loans hanging over your head is just a drag! It's my same advice for skeezix. And unfortunately, college is no guarantee of a job right now.

andro gene: [FUCK COLLEGE]: my advice to glitterbot: SKIP COLLEGE

college was a big waste of money for me. i almost regret going.

anisette: [but..but..but....]: Doesn't anyone want to contribute to the collage? It's the least we could do....

ohramona: [ Oh yeah!]:



anisette: [only centurian will get this]: "Is that a Picasso?"

neat photo ohro -- can you tell us its origin?

ohramona: [Why did the co-ed cross the road?]: Because Alexander Calder!

eraserhead: p2c, do you think the American education system -- a system where one has to be rich to get the best education, or the education one really wants -- is a good one? Wouldn't you prefer a situation where college/university, even the best, was free for all people, poor as well as rich. Here in Sweden, you can choose whatever university you want, including the finest (like Stockholm University, Uppsala University, or Lunds Univeristy), and whether you get in or not is not a question of money, but it's about how smart you are. What kind of grades you have.

I'm asking you this because I know you're a fan of the American way and a critic of the Socialist way we apply over here. Personally, I think it's really sick and really unbelievable that people who don't have the money can't go to the college or the university they want to go to. To me that's absurd. I can't believe it. But, as I understand it, over there, in America, it's just the way it is. No one is even questioning it. I'm not saying this to brag or to beat my Swedish chest or anything, I'm just really glad and thankful that I live in a country where I can choose whatever university I want, even the finest, with the best reputation, and it doesn't cost me a dime.

If I was Glitterbot, I would dump Lexy, move to Sweden and marry some Swede.

Wraith2: [Be true to your school!]: I'll concede that a key purpose of pricy institutions is to build connections and, while Hampshire certainly has that, there's far more depth to it. I'm glad it doesn't have the reputation of Amherst or Smith because I don't want to be judged by who my daddy is and where I went to school. If I'd wanted name recognition, I would have gone to Kenyon or Macalester. I wanted to go to a place where I could be an be creative, take learning on my own terms, and smoke a lot of pot. (And if I ever get tired of my academic freedom, it's not like I can't take classes at any of the other schools in the five college consortium.)

I don't want anyone to take this this as me slagging public and community colleges, it's just that they're not right for Glitterbot. She could very easily sleepwalk through fours years of such an institution, but she wants something more. Say what you will, but there are things that you get at Hampshire that you don't get at a UC. The quality of instruction, the self-motivation, the resources, and the faculty's closeness with the students simply can't be equalled at a school with so many more students.

In reply to:

If you are not rich, and go to a "rich kids school" you are asking for heartache


Nah, we'll just hole up in my dorm room and talk about how we're driving our parents to financial ruin.

In reply to:

With all due best wishes to you, wraith


I think you're being sarcastic, but thanks anyway.

In reply to:

If I was Glitterbot, I would dump Lexy, move to Sweden and marry some Swede


Hey, how much were you contributing again? I keep forgetting.

Bright: I can't afford the college I'm at right now...
so I sucked it up and took out loans.
Sure, debt sucks, but that's the way life is.

Outside scholarships are a good thing.
Workstudy? Also of the good.

Glitterbot: [i feel like i should reply to this thread]: You guys have really failed with the contributions. I saw this thread, and thought, "Finally!" But what do i get? anisette making jokes, ohramona making jokes, p2c offering practical advice...Think of all the amusement and joy i've given you people over the past year and a half! Can't you offer anything (besides your love, which means nothing?)

eraserhead: [Seriously speaking]: That's not the point. I'm happy for you two. What I was saying is that America is not the place to be if you want to, well, live a good life. Well, it is the place to be if you're rich. America is a playground for the rich. And I said some Swede, not this Swede, because I think marrying a Swede makes you a Swedish citizen, right? And, as a Swedish citizen, you get stuff Americans couldn't even dream of, and you get it for free. Hell, here in Sweden students are payed to study. The government is paying me for educating myself. And I don't have to pay them back. I get 300 dollars a month that I don't have to pay back. If I want more than that, I'll have to pay that back later. But the actual education, a place at a university, is 100% free.

You, Wraith, if anyone, would agree that Sweden is the closest to paradise you can get on Earth, in terms of social security, education system, health care. If you're into equality and justice, if you think free education and free health care is important, Sweden should be your paradise. That's all I was saying. The "dump Lexy" comment wasn't to be taken seriously.

The reason why I brought the Swedish situation up was partly because I wanted to know what someone like p2c thinks of it, and, also, because I wanted to inform other people, who aren't aware of the Swedish education system, that such system exists. Because Americans seem to think their system is the only system. It seems to me like, not even the poor, who suffer from it, would like to have it any other way, because, I don't know, it's weird. I think the Republicans have done a good job brainwashing people into believing that, unless you don't have money, you're not worthy. If you're not (relatively) rich, you should be ashamed of yourself, and you should realize that there's no place for you. It's like the Christian sin thing.[/quote]

power2charm: ['Bot - Go to Sweden! 'Head - marry Mimi!]: Glitterbot, if you want a free education, it appears those dopey Swedes give 'em away to foreigners too. Look Here to see about it. Now you don't have to marry one of those meatballs, just take the free education and then get the hell out before you get frostbit!

Eraserhead, what I *think* is that you don't know anything about American secondary education, and so dealing with your false impressions would be an exercise in futility.

I was from a lower middle class family and I went to a private school that charged more than my family could have possibly paid - $15,000/yr (in 1986). I got a loan for $2,500, got a campus job that paid for about $2,000-3,000 of the cost, and the rest was financed by the school's need-based financial aid system.

Wraith noted that Hampshire has no endowment to speak of, which I verified (only $18 million). Nevertheless, they claim that students in need receive over half the cost of their program in need-based aid. 'Bot would just have to take loans for the rest.

Ohramona told you straight up that wheezer's Georgia education will be substantially free. In Texas, the state universities' resident tuition is under $2,000 per year. Any fool could put in 20 hours/week at Starbucks and pay for that. So you see, nobody here is forced to go ignorant for lack of lucre. If there are situations where a school like Hampshire offers too meager a financial aid package for the middle class student's comfort, then that student can go somewhere else. It's nobody's RIGHT to go wherever the hell they want! Let's save our dour Euro tut-tutting for some REAL tragedies, okay?

How do you plan to pay Sweden back for what they've given you, Eraserhead? I think they should demand your dog.

In reply to:

I wanted to go to a place where I could be an be creative, take learning on my own terms, and smoke a lot of pot.


Wraith, if this is the attitude of the typical Hampshire student, then the school's reputation as a lightweight is well-deserved. If Macalaster accepted your application, then you made a mistake not to take them up on it.

Coan_teen:

In reply to:

Can't you offer anything (besides your love, which means nothing?)


Sorry, no. But I do offer my sympathy, though I know it doesn't help you any. I'm also looking ahead to the bleak financial years before me...So I don't have any money, or I'd give you some.

Sorry. But good luck nonetheless.

Marquis: [Learn Baby Learn]:

In reply to:

I wanted to go to a place where I could be an be creative, take learning on my own terms, and smoke a lot of pot.


This is like every college outside of Oral Roberts.

In reply to:

If Macalaster accepted your application, then you made a mistake not to take them up on it.


Seconded. Well, I don't know much about Hampshire actually, but I've spent a good amount of time with the Scots of Macalester, and they're good people up there. Plus if you get in any sexual violence related troubles, you can go to my friend Adam, who works there!

I also have to agree that the notion of a free UC education is pretty tempting, despite the gargantuan class sizes. But I don't know if that's even true outside of the biggies like Berkeley and UCLA. That and wanting to get out of your home state (which makes more sense in Wraith's case for sure) are the only two big draws, I think. Actually, I think the real point of this post is that I don't know anything about any colleges in America, least of all my own.

T.J. Newton: [All you need is love, love, love is all you need]:

In reply to:

Can't you offer anything (besides your love, which means nothing?)


Glitterbot, you're making me sad. Love is the strongest and the greatest power in the world and can destroy all difficulties and problems! So don't refuse!
Sorry for being ironic and sarcastic. I just don't believe in love.

But seriously, there's a really unfair system you have in the US - you can't study if you don't have enough cash. Even in Poland you can study for free... of course apart from the private universities and colleges.

eraserhead: [Örnbergets Mimi]:

In reply to:

How do you plan to pay Sweden back for what they've given you, Eraserhead? I think they should demand your dog.


I paid 800 dollars for Mimi. She comes from one of the finest dachshund families in Scandinavia. Her mother, Erica, just won a show a couple of weeks ago. So, yeah, I think Sweden would be more than satisfied with Mimi, but, obviously, I'm not letting go of her.

Wraith2: [It's! Ehhhhd! Yeeeew! Cayyyy! Shuuuun! Allll!]:

In reply to:

You guys have really failed with the contributions.


Don't worry, I'll still drop a fifty. Everyone else, this pledge drive is not, I repeat not over!

In reply to:

America is not the place to be if you want to, well, live a good life. Well, it is the place to be if you're rich. America is a playground for the rich


Agreed. I assure you, I'm duly impressed with the Swedish education system as well as many other aspects of your country. The only problem is that I don't speak Swedish. If I can stay at your house then I'll do my study abroad over there.

In reply to:

The "dump Lexy" comment wasn't to be taken seriously


Yeah, I know. You're all about Blockbusters, Sum 41, and Twister now. Glitterbot is yesterday's news.

In reply to:

nobody here is forced to go ignorant for lack of lucre


But you can't get the best education unless you can afford it.

In reply to:

Wraith, if this is the attitude of the typical Hampshire student, then the school's reputation as a lightweight is well-deserved


I'm sorry, should I have said, "I will get a 4.0 every semester or I'm going to jump off the top of dorms?" The whole point of Hampshire is that all the bullshit posturing of "better" colleges like Macalester has been eliminated so you can focus on learning.

Now, I've had about enough of you talking shit about my school, curmudgeon2charm. Why don't you ask the auto and oil industries what they think of the van four students built that runs clean (and as fast as a regular car) on vegetable oil? Why don't you ask the country of Denmark why they chose a Hampshire grad (fresh out of college) to design and develop literature about AIDs for national distribution? Why don't you ask the East coast film industry why they call our film grads "The Hampshire Mafia"? Why don't you ask Ken fuckin' Burns if he thinks he went to a "lightweight school"?

Maybe you should've stuck with the cello.

power2charm: [re. Wraith2] [Ken's next project, "Hampshire was lame"]:

In reply to:

But you can't get the best education unless you can afford it.


No, you thickheaded ignoramus, you just can't get the half-assed Hampshire one.

Harvard has an endowment of $18 billion. A year at Harvard costs $40,000. Show us your math chops, pothead, and calculate how many FULL SCHOLARSHIPS Harvard could issue with the income its endowment generates if invested in Treasuries yielding an average of 4% per annum.

If Hampshire is soooo freakin' great, idiotboy, why do only a tiny fraction - a "little bitty" one, to borrow a phrase from the Yale grad occupying our White House and several windswept nations in the Middle East - of Hamphire acceptees enroll? P2c wants to know if you can say "Safety School" - as in ohmyfuckinggodevenBrandeisrejectedmenowIhavetogotoHampshire-safety school.

On a less cheery note, do you realize what an absolute no-class act posting this thread was? Did you obtain Glitterbot's explicit permission to post a thread informing us that:

a) her family can't afford to send her to private college;
b) she's too lazy to apply for the financial aid that is readily available from most respectable* private schools (*that duly leaves Hampshire out - its alums are sooooo pleased with the education they received that they've been known to return shards of glass and feces from unknown forest creatures in response to the school's fundraising mailers);
c) she daily frequents the blighted environs of the City by the Bay;
d) she is some rag doll to be dragged about by her vain, self-centered cyber pal, who incidentally is way too selfish to change HIS plans and attend a California school?

'Bot, I'm not sure what you would tire of sooner if you came East: Norman Rockwell-land in W. Massachusetts or the doofus who lured you out there. My advice, attend UC Santa Cruz and keep an eye peeled for a good upstanding Macalester boy.

Glitterbot: [ken has a mullet.]:

In reply to:

I paid 800 dollars for Mimi.


Ew. Why did it concern you to pay an extravagant amount of money for a purebred dog?

In reply to:

power2charm: b) she's too lazy to apply for the financial aid that is readily available from most respectable* private schools (*that duly leaves Hampshire out


I don't know what you're talking about. Hampshire has financial aid. they certainly offer more than bigger schools like NYU or something do. I applied for financial aid (an extremely hateful process!) I just didn't recieve very much of it.

In reply to:

c) she daily frequents the blighted environs of the City by the Bay;


I've mentioned that I live in SF before. Anyway, San Francisco is a wonderful place to live.

This is all getting sort of violent. I can see we've revealed that p2c hates Wraith2. Interesting. Here is my take on the whole thing (read closely:)

Hampshire is not particularly difficult to get into, and it's not particularly prestigious (though it is in my top colleges book) but I really like the way the school is run. I think it is pretty unique, and fosters a creative environment, and has small class sizes, and isn't run by the government- basically, it is the antithesis of my craptacular high school experience, and that's what interests me. I have friends that go there, so I think I have a pretty good idea of what it's like.

And I went to a high school that was considered extremely prestigious and was very hard to get into and it sucked. I don't care about those things.

But I realize that I probably can't afford to go there without taking our ridiculous loans, and I'm not complaining. I'll probably go to a community college, get some credits, and finish up at a four year. I can't expect my parents or myself to go into huge amounts of debt, and I don't think Hampshire (or any school) is worth the price of tuition.

As for a UC, they're not free. A UC would cost about 15,000 a year (about the same as a private would if I got a decent financial aid package.) I probably should have been practical and gone to UC Santa Cruz, but I didn't want to. I don't want to live in Santa Cruz, and I hate all the people from my school who went there, and I'm not upset about not going yet.

In conclusion, it didn't bother me at all that Wraith made this thread, even though it was a dismal failure and all that happened was a lot of collage-related jokes and Hampshire-bashing.

Wraith2: [Somebody doesn't like the word curmudgeon]: Yes, yes, yes, we all know about Harvard's endowment but you seem to have glossed over the fact that some of us don't want to shove sticks up our asses to keep that 4.0. The schools that care about the fact that I was the Vice President in a high school chapter of Habitat for Humanity that fundraised and built two houses aren't the ones with the money. Yale doesn't want to hear about how much I had to do with a student run group that chronicled the unwritten (because of segregation) history of Bloomington's West side. Stanford doesn't give two shits about how hard I worked for two years in a student run and organized jazz combo (I had to teach myself how to play jazz because there weren't any school instructors for that sort of thing). The schools that only care about 1600s and 4.0s are the ones I want nothing to do with. (By the way, are they even allowed to give Bs at Harvard anymore? I know Hampshire only graduates 67%, but I can't remember what it is at Harvard.)

In reply to:

power2complain: her family can't afford to send her to private college


In reply to:

eraserhead: I think the Republicans have done a good job brainwashing people into believing that, [if] you don't have money, you're not worthy.


They certainly have.

In reply to:

do you realize what an absolute no-class act posting this thread was?


Oh jesus. You make a bunch of finger wagging posts about how awful my school is when you clearly know nothing about it and you tell me I lack class? Quote endowment figures and your lawyer buddies all you want (hey, you're not a lawyer are you? no? that's too bad) but when was the last time you went on college visits? Which professors have you talked to? Which students have you talked to? Which alumnists have you talked to? Have you spent the last year extensively researching colleges and trying to get beyond all the bullshit everyone's throwing at you trying to get you to go to their school? Of course you haven't. You've been sitting in your church infested hole in Connecticut pretending you never fucked up at cello. Maybe I don't have class, but I'm Lord Byron next to you, countryboy.

Since you love to act like an expert, maybe you should consider finally going to grad school. I recommend studying manners.

power2charm: [Wraith2, you are on suspension from making threads]:

In reply to:

I don't think Hampshire (or any school) is worth the price of tuition.


And for this reason, TW rejects wraith2's plea on your behalf. If you want the Hampshire Experience badly enough, you should be willing to shoulder some of the burden (and impose it on the fam). Otherwise, it's not that important to you, and others should not bear any imposition.

Incidentally, I have fond memories of SF - I was only making reference to the location of your current school, which wraith described as "dangerous".

Let's end this sorry thread in agreement: It is outrageously DECADENT to spend $800 on a purebred when millions of mixed breeds are PUT DOWN every year....or maybe Sweden doesn't allow mixed breeds, eh, Eraserhead?

on edit: Wraith, I was replying to the 'bot while you posted your little rant. You've said nothing worthy of response (hardly a first), but I can see that you've become upset by our discussion, to which I must reply with all my heart: Cha-Ching!

Glitterbot:

In reply to:

If you want the Hampshire Experience badly enough, you should be willing to shoulder some of the burden (and impose it on the fam).


Who said I wasn't willing to shoulder some of the burden? Boy, you really make a lot of assumptions about me and my unwillingness to do anything. At least you could apologize for calling me lazy.

What I was trying to say is, I don't think any education is worth being $100,000 in debt (which I would be, if I went to Hampshire for four years....you know, that's 1/9 of a three-bedroom house in a moderately nice neighborhood San Francisco) Obviously I am willing to shoulder some of the burden, and so is my family, but I have to be practical about it.

In reply to:

Otherwise, it's not that important to you, and others should not bear any imposition.


You know, I don't actually expect members of TW to pay for it. Duh.

eraserhead: [hypocrisy]:

In reply to:

Ew. Why did it concern you to pay an extravagant amount of money for a purebred dog?


How much money have you spent on drugs over the years? I'm not being sarcastic or anything, I'm just asking a question, like you just asked me a question. Because if you've spent 800 dollars on drugs (including alochol) over the years, I think asking why I spent 800 dollars on a dog is weird, and stupid. I haven't spent a dime on drugs in my life, so I don't think I was wasting my money when I paid 800 dollars for Mimi. There are worse things to spend your money on.

If you have the money, and you can choose between getting a dachshund from one of the finest dachshund families in your part of the world, or getting a mixed breed, what would you choose? I didn't look for the finest possible dog though. My situation was like this:
I knew I wanted a long-haired dachshund. I did a search on Google and found a site called taxklubben ("the dachshund club") and there I found some names. I called a few people, but their puppies had already been sold. One of the last people on my list of names (that I'd found on the internet) was this woman named Elisabeth, and so I called her and it turned out she's a well-known breeder with lots of famous dachshunds. So I went there, and everything was just perfect, I met Mimi's mom, Erica, who was pregnant with Mimi (and 7 other puppies) at the time. I didn't know how much it would cost me. Eventually, Mimi was born, I saw her and held her and there was no turning back at that point. So I paid the 800 dollars and it was the best thing I've ever done in my life. I don't see what the problem is.

In reply to:

It is outrageously DECADENT to spend $800 on a purebred when millions of mixed breeds are PUT DOWN every year


You, mister, are the worst hypocrite ever. Are you a vegetarian? If not, don't pretend like you care about mixed breeds when you're sitting there with a dog-sandwich in your right hand. I've been a vegetarian since 1995. By being a vegetarian for almost 10 years, I have saved MANY animal lives. And, also, by not smoking pot, or wasting my money on any drug, I've saved a lot of money over the years, money I decided to use on a dog. I didn't look for a "purebred" (I don't even know what that is), I was just lucky to get Mimi. I had no idea how much a dog would cost. Now that I have her, I think it's fun to know that both her parents, Erica and Ramazotti, are champions.

Glitterbot: [jesus wouldn't have spent $800 on a dog]: The only drugs I ever have actually purchased are mushrooms, which cost $20 (what a rip!) Other than that, I've never bought drugs in my life. Alcohol...I've probably spent about $60. But i've probably wasted some money buying scones or something while high, so I will throw in an extra twenty for that, bringing my grand drug total up to $100.

I have rescued quite a few dogs in my life. Whenever my mother sees a stray, she stops the car and we hunt it down. It usually doesn't work, but a few times it has in the past, and we've returned the dog to it's owner, found a home, or kept it. One of the dogs I have now we have because he would have been put down if we left him at the animal shelter.

In reply to:

If you have the money, and you can choose between getting a dachshund from one of the finest dachshund families in your part of the world, or getting a mixed breed, what would you choose?


Do they have animal shelters in Sweden? They're very depressing. I almost cry every time I'm there- there's all these dogs, and they're in cages, and they're mournful looking, and a lot of them are going to be killed because there are too many. I would never buy a purebred dog, the very concept of it is bizarre to me- why would you want one? You can get a much cheaper dog who is going to be killed instead who is less likely to have health problems from in-breeding anyway. It's not like it's your dog is actually better in any way from my dog, is it? It's like thinking members of royalty are better than regular people because they're "pure."

I mean, finest families? It's a dog.

And dog shows? Sick and wrong.

In reply to:

If not, don't pretend like you care about mixed breeds when you're sitting there with a dog-sandwich in your right hand.


That was funny.

But, aside from all that, I've been thinking about how p2c likes to crush all forms of idealism and hope. It's like his thing. I think he hates us (well, not me so much, but Wraith2 and eraserhead) for having all these morals. Maybe he was once like you guys, maybe back in the early 80s? What were you like as a younger man, p2c? Did you believe in anything?

eraserhead: [Jesus wanted me to have Mimi]:

In reply to:

One of the dogs I have now we have because he would have been put down if we left him at the animal shelter.


It's great that you do what you do. Obviously, we don't have as many animal shelters here as you have in America. I don't think we have that many homeless dogs here. It has to do with the way the Swedish society is built. Gandhi once said that "The measure of a society can be how well its people treat its animals." I think that's true. Again, not to brag or anything (because there are many things I hate about Sweden), but I think we take good care of our animals and I think Swedish pets generally live very good lives. They get more food and more love than most people on the planet.

In reply to:

I would never buy a purebred dog, the very concept of it is bizarre to me- why would you want one?


Like I said, I got a purebred dog because God (or chance) wanted it that way. I had no ambition to get a purebred dog. I just had this list of names of dog breeders and was just interested in finding a long-haired dachshund. It was more a case of Mimi choosing me than me choosing her. I don't have anything against mixed breeds, what happend just happend. I didn't have a plan, I just put my trust in Jesus to lead me to the dog that was meant for me.

In reply to:

I mean, finest families? It's a dog


When I said "finest families" I was talking about the fact that her mom, and her dad, and her grandmother and grandfather (on both sides) are all champions, they've all won a lot of shows, in Sweden, in Finland, I think even in Switzerland (probably misspelled). This is not to say they are better than other dogs, it's just saying they are...I don't know...a fine family?

You say, "it's a dog" and I disagree. Firstly, I don't say "it" -- I say "she" (or "he"). I know this isn't a common belief to have, but I believe dogs are humans, in the sense that they're equal to humans. I don't see humans as superior to dogs. I mean, Mimi is smarter than my dad.
I think to look down on them is disrespectful. I show Mimi the greatest respect because I see her as my equal. I think her soul is very old.
And I also I think we -- the world, society -- have never been so far off in terms of how we treat animals as we are today. If you go back to, say, ancient Egypt, a lot of animals, like cats, were considered sacred. The cats were sacred to the Egyptians. They worshipped the cats. I think we should still do that. I don't know why we stopped. If a house was on fire, the first thing the Egyptians saved was the cat. The cats were their number one priority. If someone hurt or, God forbid, killed a cat, there was capital punishment for that someone. Death awaited him. That's how sacred the cats were back then. And you have the holy cows in India. I think that's not only cool but right. It's the way it should be. I think there was an understanding of animals that died when industrialism came. When industrialism came, a lot of things, good things, died.

In reply to:

And dog shows? Sick and wrong


Says Mushroom-girl. Mushrooms are sick and wrong! Don't you know that? Dog shows are silly, but, as long as Mimi's parents win first price, I kind of like these shows. I haven't ever been to one, because I don't really believe in competition, but I thought it was cool when I searched Google for their names, Mimi's parents' names, and all these show results and pictures came up. And I also found this picture of Mimi's half-sister Truls.

T.J. Newton: [No subject at all]:

In reply to:

Mushrooms are sick and wrong! Don't you know that?


No, not really. In a moment you will tell me that LSD is sick and wrong, too...

In reply to:

Dog shows are silly, but, as long as Mimi's parents win first price, I kind of like these shows. I haven't ever been to one, because I don't really believe in competition


Yes, we know. You consider it fascist and destructive

twister: [SATAN!!!!!] I recently came to the conclusion that power2charm is, in fact, the devil. Everything - and by golly, do I mean everything - that he argues is wrong, yet he does so with so much intelligence, charm, humour... he's several steps past the role of devil's advocate, and is quite simply the devil himself.

It explains an awful lot when you think about it.

Marquis: [Good Christ, what happened?]:

Jesus, I step out for a few hours to get ragingly drunk at some kid's graduation party and try to coerce his drunken and divorced mother into a little somethin' somethin', and now I come back to a thread where *TJ Newton* is the voice of reason! Shocking.

I have little to add on the college front; as I said before, I really don't know anything about colleges. But I do think it is largely false that the education you receive at, say, Columbia, will be significantly better than at a higher-end state school. I think the most important aspect of any college is the sort of people and environment you're in. I feel like I learned relatively little in my classes (which is mostly my fault, granted), but that 4 years of exposure to really smart people and living in Manhattan was life changing.

In reply to:

Why don't you ask the auto and oil industries what they think of the van four students built that runs clean (and as fast as a regular car) on vegetable oil?


They are probably not happy. Incidentally, they also did this at UC Berkeley.

Paying for purebred dogs is nearly unforgivable. I hate going to the pound worse than anything, because I want to take them all home.

eraserhead: [Good Christ indeed]:

In reply to:

Paying for purebred dogs is nearly unforgivable.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you eat animals?
As far as I know, Marquis, Glitterbot and p2c all eat animals. Yet they have the nerve to criticize me, the vegetarian, for not caring about homeless dogs. Man, I'm used to getting comments like, "but what about the poor plants?! You're killing innocent plants!!" but this is, if possible, even sillier. If you care so much about these dogs, then, please, explain to me why you eat them.

Tristan: [Send me a twenty an they're in the mail.]:

In reply to:

The only drugs I ever have actually purchased are mushrooms, which cost $20


Why would anyone pay for mushrooms when you can go to any cow pasture at sunrise and pick your own for free? Unless, of course, you're afraid of getting cow shit on your fingers.

Marquis: [You're Reaching]: I don't eat dogs.

If you don't see the difference between animals raised as food and animals abandoned and put to death to be incinerated in mass cremations after being starved and abused for the majority of their short lives, then you are obtuse.

Now maybe it is different in Sweden, maybe you guys don't have dog pounds. But over here we do. To me, its like people who want to adopt, but only a white kid. Not that I want to compare minorities to stray dogs, but both are as deserving of living in a good home as their more desirable counterparts.

edit: Tristan, lets talk deal here. I'm 100% serious.

strangeDivine: [I like Mimi too]: eraserhead, I think what you say about an understanding of animals being lost in the industrial age is caused by the fact that people don't have to be "hands-on" anymore. When you had to kill, defeather, and cook the chicken yourself, you would naturally have a deeper understanding of what the human relationship with animals is all about. When you can just pick up meat nicely wrapped in plastic at a grocery store, it's easier to put the source of that meat out of your mind.

The main problem with cats and dogs in the US is overpopulation. Many people do not take the necessary precautions to ensure that their pets aren't producing litter after litter. As a result, there is a problem with strays in cities and possibly even a bigger problem for the environment in rural areas. These types of cats and dogs have few natural predators in North America to keep their populations in check. Cats can be quite devastating to populations of small animals in rural areas. We have a big problem with nutria, a gigantic rodent native to South America, here in Louisiana. These rodents were brought in a very long time ago to boost the fur industry. Now, without a natural balance from nature, their populations have skyrocketed.

The main species that is not kept in check by predators is of course humans. I'll admit, I'm a bit of a Malthusian. But I doubt that we will be able to keep reproducing at these rates indefinitely. I think in a few decades the West will be facing the problems that China is facing. The human analogy to the pure breed dog question is thus: is it really moral to keep having children when there are plenty of children in the world that you could adopt? Is the virus called your DNA that important? Just some food for thought since I don't know anything about colleges. I'll have to start thinking about it soon I suppose.

Marquis: [Hell Hath No Fury Like p2c after the Mavs lose]: I think maybe twister is on to something.

Reminds me of this kid I knew in college who graduated a year early and was valedictorian of the class ahead of us, then went on to do a Rhodes scholarship at Oxford in Math. All in all, a really fucking smart guy. But pure evil. He had me convinced for at least an hour that there was no such thing as a 'deadbeat dad' and all of the men who abandoned their children were somehow justified in doing so.

Tristan: [Go pick 'em yourself.]:

In reply to:

edit: Tristan, lets talk deal here. I'm 100% serious.



No thanks! My mushroom days are in the distant past.
But I did have something for you when you were on your whirl wind tour of meeting TWer's. Too bad you didn't think I was worthy of a visit.

eraserhead: [TJ, I liked you better when you sucked up to me]:

In reply to:

[Marquis] If you don't see the difference between animals raised as food and animals abandoned and put to death to be incinerated in mass cremations after being starved and abused for the majority of their short lives, then you are obtuse.


The animals you eat have gone through hell before they ended up on your plate. That's a fact. Just these last few years, several European TV teams have documented the lives of these animals raised as food with hidden cameras and what they've documented is Auschwitz. They break their legs, they hit them, they stick their fingers in the cows' eyes, they give them electric shocks, you name it. Life in the slaughterhouse isn't that good after all. I think these cows would love to change place with the abandoned dogs.

In reply to:

Now maybe it is different in Sweden, maybe you guys don't have dog pounds. But over here we do. To me, its like people who want to adopt, but only a white kid. Not that I want to compare minorities to stray dogs, but both are as deserving of living in a good home as their more desirable counterparts.


Like I said, we don't really have them here. We probably have a couple, but I have never seen one myself. But I think your reasoning is a little absurd, because when you choose your wife, or girlfriend, or boyfriend, or whatever you're into, you don't choose the ugliest, smelliest person out there, do you? But you should! -- according to your own philosophy. Because going for the nice, good-looking girl is like wanting to adopt, but only a white kid. Right?

I think there are moments, situations when even the most Christian of us, even Marquis, is allowed to be a little selfish. If you want to date a girl who smells good, go ahead, Jesus forgives you. If I want to buy a purebred, Jesus forgives me. And, like I said, you get purebred dogs everywhere here in Sweden, but you'll have to look long and hard to find an abandoned dog.

In reply to:

[strangeDivine] When you had to kill, defeather, and cook the chicken yourself, you would naturally have a deeper understanding of what the human relationship with animals is all about. When you can just pick up meat nicely wrapped in plastic at a grocery store, it's easier to put the source of that meat out of your mind.


Exactly. Right on. I think it's fascinating that many of these ancient cultures, sure, they killed animals, but they were almost sorry about it, they showed the animals the deepest respect. We're lightyears from that sort of respect today.

In reply to:

is it really moral to keep having children when there are plenty of children in the world that you could adopt?


I think it is moral, because I think having a child must be, for many, what life is about, you know? It's something so big that it is not easy to put into words what it is exactly. It's something magical. I mean, I would presume it is. I don't have kids. I'm a kid myself. So, no, to have a child can never be wrong. The over-population is partly due to religious brainwashing. There are people responsible for the over-population. It's not my fault and therefore, I should be allowed, I mean, if I was a woman, I should be allowed to give birth to a kid. The question is if catholics, or the catholics who support the Pope's opinion on the subject, should be allowed to have children, since they're part of the over-population problem.

T.J. Newton: [I wish I knew what happened]:

In reply to:

[Marquis] Jesus, I step out for a few hours to get ragingly drunk at some kid's graduation party and try to coerce his drunken and divorced mother into a little somethin' somethin', and now I come back to a thread where *TJ Newton* is the voice of reason!


I'm not sure I understand you, Matt.

In reply to:

[Tristan] Why would anyone pay for mushrooms when you can go to any cow pasture at sunrise and pick your own for free? Unless, of course, you're afraid of getting cow shit on your fingers.


That's true, although I paid for mushrooms as well. I had to give only 1 dolar for my pack of mushrooms And there were 30 mushrooms in the envelope. So now I'm wondering if Glitterbout bought 600 mushrooms or maybe she had her pants pulled down over the price?

eraserhead:

1) You claim to be a veggie, but tell me something - do you refuse to eat meat because of your religious beliefs? Or maybe you pity all those "poor" animals that get killed? If so, I've got a question. Didn't God say in the Bible that animals he created can be eaten by men? And they were basically created for the humanity?
2) when did I actually suck up to you? [/quote]

StrangeDrugs: My pound-puppy smelled like roses thanyouverymuch.

power2charm: [Fraternity and Equality: On sale for $800!]: You say, "it's a dog" and I disagree. Firstly, I don't say "it" -- I say "she" (or "he"). I know this isn't a common belief to have, but I believe dogs are humans, in the sense that they're equal to humans. I don't see humans as superior to dogs. I mean, Mimi is smarter than my dad.
I think to look down on them is disrespectful. I show Mimi the greatest respect because I see her as my equal. I think her soul is very old. ~Eraserhead, 5/31/03


Since dogs are above other animals and on the level of humans, then it is indeed not hypocrisy for those of us eating chicken, fish, lamb, pork and beef (dumb animals all, and not elevated in e-head's grand philosophy of the moment to our spiritual and intellectual peers) to chew away while lambasting the Swede for partaking in an industry that is the equivalent of human slavery.

Mimi didn't choose you - your equal was purchased, her parents were bred to produce her. Humans who regard your equal as chattel make a profit by their actions. And you lined their pockets, Eraserhead.

Who is the hypocrite, and who is the bystander pointing it out while munching a bbq samich? I ask you, TW.

By the way, don't let Eraserhead pull "facts" out of his ass, like that there are no shelters in Sweden. That's a load of DOGSHIT



Tippi, 2000-2003.
Put down because she wasn't fit
for the slave trade Eraserhead supports

Rather than words comes the thought of high windows

Auntie Prism
(stardust savant)
02/25/11 04:42 PM
Y'can do anything but lay off my blue suede shoes new [re: Auntie Prism] Reply to this post

Marquis: [Lock this thread]: Its making my head hurt. That dog looks a lot like my beloved Juno, p2c, although her ears are lopsided. She was on Doggie Death Row as well before my parents adopted her. Now she's sitting at my feet, for which fact I am thankful. I love this dog.

TJ, what I meant is that there was a lot of hotheadedness floating around this thread, but for once, you weren't at the center of it!

T.J. Newton: [A sudden change of heart]:

In reply to:

TJ, what I meant is that there was a lot of hotheadedness floating around this thread, but for once, you weren't at the center of it!


See, Marquis! You've been underestimating me for a long time and, as you can see, even I can control myself

arahael:

In reply to:

. I think it's fascinating that many of these ancient cultures, sure, they killed animals, but they were almost sorry about it, they showed the animals the deepest respect. We're lightyears from that sort of respect today.


not quite so many as you think. the egyptians are really one of the only cultures that i can think of that showed animals great respect. well, some animals. the egyptians hunted A LOT! look at Middle and New Kingdom tomb painting. most people had hunting and/or battle scenes depicted in their tombs because they wanted to bring it with them into the afterlife.
the clacladic people sacrificed animals, they worshiped trees and caves. the mycenaean's favorite thing to do was kill. the minoans participated in bull leaping. then they would drug the bull, kill it, and then eat it in homage to the earth mother.
i don't really see vegitarianism as a solution. i don't eat much meat, but then again, i hate the way it tastes. the sacred cows-- didn't you say that "this is the way it should be" or something like that? it isn't. these cows are starving, diseased, and miserable. i'm not all for letting animals run wild and treated the same as humans. yes, animals have feelings, but that doesn't mean that they are not also a resource that can be used to nourish us. animals eat other animals, the world is a brutal place and everyone is trying to survive.
personally, i get a little outraged when people tell me i should eat what they eat, when millions of acres of land are ravaged and levelled to make way for more farms. losing these acres of land cause millions of animals to die horrible deaths that are JUST AS BAD as those that are bred to be eaten.
plants are living creatures too. why should we draw the line at animals?

i really had meant to just write the lightheated look at ancient cultures, but i could not exercise self-restraint on this. whoops.

SAVE THE SOYBEAN!

glamourpuss: [Dogshelters and Sweden]: Of course there are dog shelters in Sweden too. There's even one in the little tiny town where I live. Swedish people in my opinion (me not being Swedish but only living here) are as irresponsible as everybody else.

So this was my meaningless contribution to this thread. :-)

dukewhite: [Cats, friends, what about the cats?]: What about cats, people? We can't neglect our feline friends while focusing only on dogs. The same things happen to them...breeding and euthanasia. And let's not forget that we have to save them from the obligatory "crazy cat lady" that lives just around the corner from each and every one of us. We just don't know it til it makes the front page.

strangeDivine: My original post was deleted when I tried to submit it, due to my connection problems. I've been debating about whether to just forget about it, but I cannot allow one of my jewels to just dissappear completely like that. I'm going to be very to the point.

In reply to:

I think it is moral, because I think having a child must be, for many, what life is about, you know?


I don't think that there is anything wrong with the desire to have a child. It's completely normal. But it's like you said once about the fashion industry. It seems a little selfish to spend $1000 on an outfit when some people don't even have enough food to eat! But, if you're not going to donate that $1000 to charity or something, go ahead and buy the outfit anyway if your only objection is a moral one. Because honestly, well-wishes are nice, but sympathy without action doesn't do a lot for a starving person. It seems a little selfish to bring new children into the world when there are children out there who don't have parents at all. I'm not saying don't have children. But this is just my general advice for society. If after having one or two children you still want more, just adopt. It's the socially responsible thing to do. If we could all be a little more conservative in regard to our rate of reproduction, we might be able to avoid the government having to enforce strict population control methods in the future.

In reply to:

arachal: i get a little outraged when people tell me i should eat what they eat, when millions of acres of land are ravaged and levelled to make way for more farms. losing these acres of land cause millions of animals to die horrible deaths that are JUST AS BAD as those that are bred to be eaten.


Yes, but how many of those acres of land are being used to produce grain etc. for livestock? Raising animals requires great amounts of land and agricultural resources. How many would-be forests are now pastures? If we reduced our reliance on meat in our diets, the amount of farm animals in existence would decrease because they are bred according to market demads. Theoretically, we could free up a lot of land if we reduced our reliance on animals as a food source. However, the greater dependence on plants could just fill in the gap left by the former meat industry. So, the need for land and resources might even out. I'm probably unable to figure that out. Are there any mathematically-minded TWers with statistics at the ready who could calculate that?

In reply to:

plants are living creatures too. why should we draw the line at animals?


I suppose we can't be absolutely certain, but I think most evidence points in the direction that plants do not possess sentience. Plants do not posess brains or a central nervous system, therefore they cannot process fear, pain, discomfort, all of which members of the animal kingdom can. This doesn't mean that we should just go all willy nilly in regard to our plant consumption as a society, because yes they are a resource that we shouldn't overuse if we don't have to. But many of the objections that people generally have about the killing of animals can't logically be applied to plants.

Glitterbot: [did jesus kill all those other dogs?]: When I said "It's a dog," I wasn't calling dogs "its", I was saying, "It is a dog we are talking about." It being the subject. If we were talking about a baby, I would have said the same thing.

In reply to:

I know this isn't a common belief to have, but I believe dogs are humans, in the sense that they're equal to humans.


Then why do you think it's okay that they're treated as a commodity? That's why I think it's so sick and wrong to have some dogs cost thousands of dollars while others are killed by the thousands. Mutts are just as loyal, loving, and cute (Purebreds all look basically the same, which I don't find very appealing) and smell just as good as purebred dogs. To me, dogs are basically the same if they're raised right- they're all cute and affectionate, so there's no reason other than status to get a purebred dog.

I mean, if you really thought dogs were like humans, then you must seek out human companions based on looks and breeding.

I understand that Mimi is worth $800 to you, I just think had you got a mutt puppy, you would have loved her just as much, because dogs are just sweet animals. It's like babies- you think your own child is the best, who you were destined to have, but you just think that because it's yours and that child loves you.

I'm not saying that you don't care about homeless dogs, just that I don't understand the purebred-dog logic. To me it's like buying a designer shirt for the label, which is so un-Jesus like. I think of you as Jesus2, you know.

As for the hypocrisy, I guess I raise dogs to a higher level than some animals, like say chickens. You mentioned you feed Mimi meat, but you would never feed a cow some ground-up dog, would you? Even you raise dogs higher than other animals. So I think we're conditioned to have certain feelings for certain animals.

In reply to:

Mushrooms are sick and wrong!


On second thought, I could not have possibly spent $20 on mushrooms. It was clearly $10. Anyway, I only did it once. I hardly think that makes me deserve the name of Mushroom Girl. It was very Lynchian, anyway. You would have appreciated it, really.

Cucumber: [the men who know the price of everything...]: Dear youthful Glitterbot,

You shouldn't be squandering your non existent money on post secondary institutions,if you find socializing with strangers on internet appealing.

If I had your freedom and youth,I'd simply buy a car and hit the road(or steal a boat,or both)
I wouldn't volunteerly choose to end up trapped in a state of chronic ennui.
I'd travel great distances,live in foreign countries, explore different perspectives and collect ID's.But that's just me.

Good luck,

Olga

Passerby (Anonymous): [this is a big mess. I'm sorry.]: I find it incredible that no one called Eraserhead on the fact that he said "babies are why we're here, they're magical and life itself" [rough paraphrase] while at the same time advocating sterilization? fines? imprisonment? for Catholics who have more than 2.3 children because their religious beliefs dictate that to be moral. I think there's a religious bias behind that, and not too far from the surface either.

On the dog breeding issue: I do think that paying $2,000 or what have you for a dog highly prone to nervous disorders and genetic weaknesses is a silly idea, and having just seen Best in Show today my head is full of examples of why many people obsessed with this sort of industry (although Eraserhead doesn't seem to be terribly involved with it) are absolutely insane. However, all you mutt champions (and I'm one too) have to consider that your mutts wouldn't have their glorious variety and beauty had it not been for human beings breeding wolves for their own purposes. The entire dog species has arisen because of human involvement. While I'm no advocate of weak, personality-less dogs, certain amounts of purposeful breeding help create wonderful dogs. There are genetically falible ones, yes, but there are mutants constantly in every species, and those not best suited to the niche in which they find themselves will die, just as the purebred dogs will always be less common than their more vigorous counterparts.

And as for the vegetarianism/adoption argument....oh jeez. I've finally come to the conclusion that living is naturally a destructive process. In this world, either I kill animals or plants (barring synthesized protein Matrix junk) to continue my own life, or I die. I make the selfish decision to keep eating both, because I think the "poor ickle wickle animals" is a poor argument in a world that requires us to consume other organisms or die. At the same time, I think that the human invasion of the planet is a disgusting occurance that is ultimately bad for the human species as much as anything else. For that reason, I'm trying to cut back on the more environmentally-impacting foods, mainly meat, dairy, and fish, in favour for less-impacting alternatives. This is much more complex than simply not eating meat and having a light conscience at the end of the day - it requires a lot of research and I'm only at the beginning. It's also something that can and should affect every aspect of a person's life - avoidance of Indonesian hardwoods in furniture to avoid the extinction of organuatans in 20 years, and so on. This is a problem that no one can claim to have eliminated from their life, there is only minimization of one's negative effect, and because of that there can be a lot of flexibility. When I have low iron, no vitamin supplements, and I have a small steak, I don't feel particularly guilty because it was something I needed and that was a very good way to get it. Goes the same for having your own child, or using loads of paper for a business you run. SUVs I find less forgiveable, but there are those out there who actually *use* the 30,000 horsepower and enormous fenders...I hope. As long as you're making the effort to curb waste in most parts of your life, no one should be able to get on their green-painted soapbox and label you as immoral. They are ultimately in the same position as you, unless they live in the woods or on a substinence farm, in which case I applaud them but remind them that their way of living supports fewer people/acre and the population is too high for us all to live in communal harmony.
That being said, I'm no fan of the gratutitous cruelty occuring in many slaughterhouses. The only way I can see around this is for people to call attention to it: in the documentaries, in letters to companies, and in their boycott of huge dirty enterprises in favour of more compassionate farm owners.
We as a species probably need a good natural culling to rid the world of our pestilence. However, until my ultra-Malthusian boyfriend finds out how to destroy humanity while leaving Earth intact, this model of least-impact is the only thing I can see that will have any effect. A Cornell professor wrote a book advocating the taxation of foods in accordance with their effect on the environment. Tis an interesting idea, though another one that will have little effect on the ignorant rich and one that would hever fly in America. At any rate, there is no valid argument of dog-breeding versus vegetarianism, and there are no easy answers. There's just too many of us...

KingofNerds: [blah blah]:

In reply to:

the men who know the price of everything...


...and the value of nothing...
How much is a dog's life worth again?!You people sicken me!

eraserhead: [look what i've done to your thread glitterbot]:

In reply to:

[TJ Newton] Didn't God say in the Bible that animals he created can be eaten by men? And they were basically created for the humanity?


I think you may be right about that. But there is also the sixth (?) commandment: You shall not kill, or murder (or something like that). Whatever, I don't care, cause I don't live according to the Bible.

In reply to:

when did I actually suck up to you


90% of what I say is a joke. Like what I'm gonna say now, this is a joke:
(this is in response to p2c)

Subconsciously, meat-eaters feel bad about eating animals. So there's a lot of guilt inside of them. But they don't know it. Though, they can feel it, but it's hard for them to identify what it is. It's just a creepy feeling that's swimming around inside them, making them feel bad and nervous. The natural reaction for someone who feels bad is to get rid of the bad feeling and a way to do that is to give your bad feelings away to other people. This is why hurt people try to hurt others. They want other people to take their pains. Obviously, you become what you eat. You are what you eat. If you eat death, you will be full of death. There definitely is a connection between spiritual developtment, spiritual growing and what you eat. This is why Buddhists are vegetarians. You can't put death inside your body if you want to become immortal. These dead animals are not only dead, but murdered, so you're not just eating death, you're also eating violence. This is why p2c is so full of aggression: because he eats a lot of violence, a lot of murdered animals.

In reply to:

[I forgot who said this] Of course there are dog shelters in Sweden too. There's even one in the little tiny town where I live.


I did say we have a couple dog shelters, but we don't have anywhere near as many as America has.

In reply to:

Swedish people in my opinion (me not being Swedish but only living here) are as irresponsible as everybody else


Sure, a lot of Swedes are irresponsible, but how do you explain the fact that America and Sweden are like night and day, two completely different worlds, in all aspects? The American society, the American system was built by Americans. The Swedish society was built by Swedes, so, somewhere, there has got to be a difference.

In reply to:

[strangeDivine] many of the objections that people generally have about the killing of animals can't logically be applied to plants.


Right. The only reason why meat-eaters bring up the plant issue all the time is because they have so much guilt and death and violence inside their little bodies that they have to find a way to share that guilt with other people. So they try to make the vegetarians feel guilty about eating plants. It's just silly.

In reply to:

[Glitterbot] Then why do you think it's okay that they're treated as a commodity?


I don't. I guess saying "I paid so and so much for Mimi" sounds like I'm treating her like a commodity, but what can I say, I did buy her. But I think when you adopt people, kids, you pay for them as well, don't you?

In reply to:

Mutts are just as loyal, loving, and cute (Purebreds all look basically the same, which I don't find very appealing) and smell just as good as purebred dogs. To me, dogs are basically the same if they're raised right- they're all cute and affectionate, so there's no reason other than status to get a purebred dog


Right. And like I said (and I think I've said this a hundred times by now) I didn't look for a purebred. I was just looking for a long-haired dachshund, because that's the dog I wanted, and the only place where I could find a long-haired dachshund was at Elisabeth's. And she happend to be a famous dog breeder. Long-haired dachshunds are not very common here in Sweden. I've only seen one or two long-haired dachshund in real life. They are very rare. And since I wanted one badly, it never struck me that I should pass on the oppurtunity just because she was a purebred. If I had refused to buy Mimi, just because she was a purebred, I would probably still be looking for a long-haired dachshund.

In reply to:

I mean, if you really thought dogs were like humans, then you must seek out human companions based on looks or breeding


I seek out human companions based on character and I seek out animal companions based on character. The reason why I wanted a dachshund was because dachshunds are famous for their strong personalities, they're stubborn as hell, extremely intelligent, self-sure, etc.

In reply to:

[some anonymous guy] I find it incredible that no one called Eraserhead on the fact that he said "babies are why we're here, they're magical and life itself" [rough paraphrase] while at the same time advocating sterilization?


I didn't advocate sterilization. But I think using...what do you call it...protection should be allowed. I think the reason why no one called me on what I said is because most people agree that having a baby is one of the reasons why we're here, and people also agree that using protection should be allowed.

glamourpuss:

In reply to:

I did say we have a couple dog shelters, but we don't have anywhere near as many as America has


Of course there are not as many dogshelters in Sweden as in the US since Sweden is much smaller country. I dont know how it looks if you take the size of each country's population into account but you are going to have to prove it with some statistics of some kind. You can't just go around claiming to know "facts" that you have not looked properly into.

In reply to:

Sure, a lot of Swedes are irresponsible, but how do you explain the fact that America and Sweden are like night and day, two completely different worlds, in all aspects? The American society, the American system was built by Americans. The Swedish society was built by Swedes, so, somewhere, there has got to be a difference.


So...what is your point? That American and Swedish culture are different? I think we all know that. By like night and day do you mean that American culture breeds irresponsibility and Swedish culture does not?

eraserhead:

In reply to:

Of course there are not as many dogshelters in Sweden as in the US since Sweden is much smaller country. I dont know how it looks if you take the size of each country's population into account but you are going to have to prove it with some statistics of some kind. You can't just go around claiming to know "facts" that you have not looked properly into.


It's my gut feeling that, if you take the size of each country's population into account, America has more dog shelters than Sweden. What does your gut feeling tell you?

In reply to:

like night and day do you mean that American culture breeds irresponsibility and Swedish culture does not?


I think American culture breeds more bad things than Swedish culture, yeah. But I also think a lot of great things have come out of America, principally a lot of great artists, musicians, writers, film-makers, poets, painters, actors. Because, as the cliché goes, where there is suffering, there is art. "Where there's trouble there's poetry" as DB sings. Or, to quote The Third Man:

"In Italy for thirty years under the Borgais they had murder, warfare and strife. Yet they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had five hundred years of peace and tranquillity. They had democracy and brotherly love, and what did that bring us? The cuckoo clock!"

glamourpuss:

In reply to:

It's my gut feeling that, if you take the size of each country's population into account, America has more dog shelters than Sweden. What does your gut feeling tell you?


It's is not about gut feeling. It's about facts. You failed to prove your statement. It's as simple as that.

Edit: By the way...I like your avatar and your dog looks cute. I wish I had a dog. You're lucky.

T.J. Newton: [This thread is out of control!]:

In reply to:

I think you may be right about that. But there is also the sixth (?)


Yes, it's the sixth.

In reply to:

commandment: You shall not kill, or murder (or something like that).


You're right, it says "Thou shalt not kill", but I think it rather refers to men, not to animals.

In reply to:

Whatever, I don't care, cause I don't live according to the Bible.


Neither do I, but you? I assume that you're a catholic who doesn't agree with the Bible.

In reply to:

90% of what I say is a joke.


90%?! Then I think I must reconsider my thoughts about you

white rabbit: [If wishes were horses]: I wish I lived in Sweden. Everything sounds really perfect there.

Personally, I'll probably always have a shelter dog. I'm a sucker for the three-legged ones who've been abused and no ones wants who need a good loving home and someone with a lot of patience to care for them. The only other place I'd consider getting a dog is a retired greyhound racer from the track across the river in Iowa. Those animals often cease to be after they've outlived their usefulness as well.

power2charm: [Hold that Tiger! Now kill him and stuff him!]: It's typical for Eraserhead, when his hackneyed theories and philosophies have been thoroughly exposed and discredited, to claim it was and is all a joke. By this tactic he can dodge admitting he may not have it all worked out after all. Don't ever hold your breath that he might reply to an opponent in a debate, "You know, I'd never really thought about it that way before," or "I guess you are right," because he is one of those arrogant know-it-all-despite-never-having-done-a-thing dingbats.

Congratulations to you, TW, for exposing his hypocricy and rubbing his nose in it like he rubs Mimi's nose in her feces when she shits on his fine Scandinavian fir hardwood floor. Althought he'll never admit it, he's been taken down a notch, and ultimately, that's good for him. And fun for us!

T.J. Newton: [What a coincidence!]:

In reply to:

It's typical for Eraserhead, when his hackneyed theories and philosophies have been thoroughly exposed and discredited, to claim it was and is all a joke. By this tactic he can dodge admitting he may not have it all worked out after all. Don't ever hold your breath that he might reply to an opponent in a debate, "You know, I'd never really thought about it that way before," or "I guess you are right," because he is one of those arrogant know-it-all-despite-never-having-done-a-thing dingbats.


You know, there are many TWers who think exactly the same about me.

Coan_teen: I just want to say all these posts really aren't making my headache any better. It's all so confusing! I'm going back over to the Ghetto. At least there nothing is really serious and nasty--just a bunch of glomping and drooling.

th0mas: well - i think it is fucking funny to watch a discussion about colleges slowly slipping away from the topic and ending at "pure breed dogs"....

StrangeDrugs: "If you eat death, you will be full of death"

Well then the obvious answer is to eat animals while theyre still breathing. They do that in some places, don't they? Like monkey brains or something...I dunno.
I've been a vegetarian for about 9 years now, and nowadays I'm pretty passive about it. I don't really have any moral or ethical standpoint on the issue, in fact I usually avoid it. But the more I think about it the more I think maybe I SHOULD be eating meat. I mean, its all about survival of the fittest, right? And sure, most of you who buy your steaks in the supermarket wouldn't have the slightest clue how to kill an animal in the wild...I'm sure you'd die before you ate dinner. But! Mankind as a species is intelligent enough to build slaughterhouses and raise animals for food...therefore mankind is more fit.
Then again the majority of TWers now seem to be unbelievably idealistic and so they don't agree with my objectavist-based arguments (though I will state for the record I'm not an objectavist for the sole reason that I do not agree that A=A...but anyway). Rest assured that you'll all be bitter and jaded soon.

Also, I would like to publicly blame Marquis for this entire thread.

eraserhead: [Is this a good thread or a bad thread, I don't know]:

In reply to:

I like your avatar


You mean Anthony Kiedis? I love Anthony. It's a still from the Can't Stop video, which you can watch here:
http://www.redhotchilipeppers.com/multimedia/index.html

In reply to:

I think it rather refers to men, not to animals


But we can never really know that, can we? So I think, if you're religious, better to be safe than sorry you know. Better put that hamburger away if you wanna get to heaven.

In reply to:

I assume that you're a catholic who doesn't agree with the Bible.


I am not a catholic, I guess if you made me choose one of the major religions, I'd pick Buddhism but my mom is a new age freak so I'm into that as well. It's really cool to have a mom who's a new age freak I must say.

In reply to:

I wish I lived in Sweden. Everything sounds really perfect there.


I'm just being silly about Sweden because I know how much that pisses p2c off. It's not like I'm a patriot or a nationalist. No way. I think the best thing about Sweden is the immigrants, these days it's like New York in the way that it's a great mix of people from everywhere.

In reply to:

It's typical for Eraserhead, when his hackneyed theories and philosophies have been thoroughly exposed and discredited, to claim it was and is all a joke.


When I said "this is a joke" (or whatever I said) I was only joking. It was not a joke. That was the joke! Or, to put it another way: every joke has some truth to it. When I say something is a joke, it doesn't mean it's not the truth, or that I'm not serious.

In reply to:

I've been a vegetarian for about 9 years now, and nowadays I'm pretty passive about it


I'm also very passive about it these days, that is until people start throwing these ridiculous statements at me. I think what's interesting here also is that I -- a kid, a 22 year old -- has kept my calm throughout this discussion, while real grown-ups like p2c, who could be my father, or perhaps grandfather, judging from his extreme conservatism, are close to losing it completely. Like I said, all that violence one eats has to come out some way, and it comes out as insults directed at innocent people like myself. But, you know, as long as you see it for what it is, it doesn't effect you.

power2charm: [My last post in this thread]: a) Eraserhead is 22, and is therefore an adult, NOT a kid. Too bad he doesn't realize it.
b) When I called Eraserhead a dingbat, I was serene. Eraserhead can't stand to have his opinions, or "facts", questioned, so to his mind, the interlocutor must be "losing it". Nice try, my MAN, but nobody is falling for it. The fact is, you bought a dog from one of the "finest families" without regard for the dogs in your own country that are being killed for want of owners. Now we know about you and your hippy dippy love for all creatures great and small.....as long as they're from the "finest families".
c) All the rest - the accusations of glitterbot's regular drug use, equating meat-eating with violence and murder, when you feed your own dog (your EQUAL) the meat she craves - is obfuscation. It's not relevant to our contention that you cannot claim these higher qualities for canines and then support purebreeding and dog shows and the like.

The end. You are vanquished.

Oh, and tell Mimi, higher beings *don't* drink from the toilet.

strangeDivine: [Keep on trucking]: I would just like to say one thing about (to) eraserhead, and all the eraserheads out there, God bless 'em. One of the all to common tactics that people on the more cynical side use against the more idealistic is pointing out flaws in their reasoning and then attempting to persuade them to throw the baby out with the bath water. If eraserhead joined Feed the Children and started sponsoring a child in Ethiopia, nobody would say,"that's all good, but why don't you sponsor two kids? Or ten, ya cheapskate?" No. Most people would just agree that it's good that he's at least doing that one thing to live up to his own ideals. Of course you can always do more. Anybody can do more. But at least he's doing something that he believes will improve the world. He could even more easily be doing nothing.

And I understand the value of having a realistic outlook on the world. The problem is, most people jump straight from a stage of believing that they're superman and save the world to believing that the world is shit and there is nothing that can be done about it. At all. Realism is not synonymous with utter defeatism. The world is never going to be perfect. But history has shown that changes can be made for the better.

I'm going to tell you a sappy story, which I'm sure most of you have already heard, because it is relevant to the debate, and I am in a more positive mood than usual. An old man was walking along the beach when he noticed that the beach was covered with starfish that had washed up on the hot sand. They would of course die within a short period of time without water. He also saw a small boy frantically picking them up and throwing them back into the water. The old man said,"why are you wasting your time? You can't possibly save them all. It doesn't matter." The little boy threw another starfish into the water and looked up at the man and said with childlike innocence "it mattered to that one."

StrangeDrugs: "And I understand the value of having a realistic outlook on the world. The problem is, most people jump straight from a stage of believing that they're superman and save the world to believing that the world is shit and there is nothing that can be done about it. At all. Realism is not synonymous with utter defeatism."

I hope that wasn't in response to me. If it was, let me say that I never meant to imply there's nothing we can do about the world. I don't believe in defeat - I believe in survival. I also believe that before you can be benificial to anyone else you have to be at your best. That means looking out for yourself first. I don't advocate ruthlessness, but toes do get stepped on, yes. People have to realise that everything we do is selfish andtheres NOTHING WRONG with that. In fact, thats the way it should be.

strangeDivine: [re. StrangeDrugs]: That wasn't specifically about you. It's just about some people in general.

T.J. Newton: [No jokes this time]:

In reply to:

But we can never really know that, can we? So I think, if you're religious, better to be safe than sorry you know. Better put that hamburger away if you wanna get to heaven.


Hey, I'm not a catholic. I'm a declared meat-eater - all kinds except for beef, because I'm afraid of Creutzfeld-Jacob disease. Besides, it has been scientifically proved that people need meat.

In reply to:

I am not a catholic, I guess if you made me choose one of the major religions, I'd pick Buddhism but my mom is a new age freak so I'm into that as well. It's really cool to have a mom who's a new age freak I must say.


I see. I mean, I wouldn't like to have a new agre freak mother, but hey - that's just me

In reply to:

I'm just being silly about Sweden because I know how much that pisses p2c off. It's not like I'm a patriot or a nationalist. No way. I think the best thing about Sweden is the immigrants, these days it's like New York in the way that it's a great mix of people from everywhere.


Do you really think it's so great?

dice: [re. Wraith2]:

In reply to:

Her creative potential is being squandered in a sub-par community college in an unsavory and dangerous section of San Fransisco


the thugs are more scared of her than she is of them. either that or they're blinded by flourescence

dice: [re. power2charm]:

In reply to:

Frankly, almost every state school in California would offer Glitterbot as good an education as Hampshire


and probably better

but let's get one thing straight. nobody can offer an education. they can offer instruction, atmosphere, and cache, but education is intensely personal

In reply to:

Personally, I think it's really sick and really unbelievable that people who don't have the money can't go to the college or the university they want to go to


they can if they work hard enough. but the level of fairness in american higher education is definitely nothing to be proud of

In reply to:

The quality of instruction, the self-motivation, the resources, and the faculty's closeness with the students simply can't be equalled at a school with so many more students.


you're way off the mark. for a while i went to a school where i paid $25,000-$30,000 a year, and the education wasn't as good as the state school i graduated from, which was well under half the price. more students = more faculty. the difference in class sizes is generally minimal between private and public schools

In reply to:

The schools that care about the fact that I was the Vice President in a high school chapter of Habitat for Humanity that fundraised and built two houses aren't the ones with the money. Yale doesn't want to hear about how much I had to do with a student run group that chronicled the unwritten (because of segregation) history of Bloomington's West side. Stanford doesn't give two shits about how hard I worked for two years in a student run and organized jazz combo (I had to teach myself how to play jazz because there weren't any school instructors for that sort of thing). The schools that only care about 1600s and 4.0s are the ones I want nothing to do with


that's bullshit. the great majority of the applicants to these schools have fabulous grades and extra-curriculars up the wazoo. and the bulk of them don't get accepted

way to toot your own horn, though

In reply to:

some of us don't want to shove sticks up our asses to keep that 4.0


i'm with you. which is why neither of us would have enjoyed attending these schools

bottom line is if you work hard and stay true to yourself you're set. if a school turns you down, it probably wasn't a good match to begin with

In reply to:

It is outrageously DECADENT to spend $800 on a purebred when millions of mixed breeds are PUT DOWN every year


i'll agree with that. but i'm a vegetarian

In reply to:

And I also I think we -- the world, society -- have never been so far off in terms of how we treat animals as we are today


i think you're way off there. probably just the opposite is true

ancient egyptians worshipped a lot of strange stuff

arahael: [re. strangeDivine]:

In reply to:

Yes, but how many of those acres of land are being used to produce grain etc. for livestock? Raising animals requires great amounts of land and agricultural resources.


good point, i should do my research BEFORE i decide to run off at the mouth *smirk*

In reply to:

I suppose we can't be absolutely certain, but I think most evidence points in the direction that plants do not possess sentience.


yeah, i was just being a sarcastic bitch.

arahael: [re. eraserhead]:

In reply to:

Like I said, all that violence one eats has to come out some way, and it comes out as insults directed at innocent people like myself


(i hope that this comment was in jest!)

this is one of the funniest things i've heard all day! i'll have to remember this one!

Marquis: [The Execution of a Chump]: I wouldn't go chicken counting just yet, TJ.

I fear you and I will tussle some more over the coming weeks, though maybe we'll be able to keep it above boards this time.

T.J. Newton: [The Future Is Not Clear]:

In reply to:

I fear you and I will tussle some more over the coming weeks, though maybe we'll be able to keep it above boards this time.


I wouldn't be so sure, Matt. If you don't believe me, see this post. Can you see that? I agreed with you. And I thought that I will never use words "agree" and "with you" (in reference to you) in one sentence!
Something strange is going to happen, Marquis. I kid you not. Or has it already happened?

ohramona: [This oughta clear things up]:

In reply to:

Something strange is going to happen, Marquis. I kid you not. Or has it already happened?


Well, I spent 38 seconds thoroughly and deeply contemplating this conundrum, and decided it was just too much for my limited cognitive capacity. So I consulted a well-respected and reliable source, and found that in response to the question, "Is something strange going to happen between TJ and Marquis?", that the answer is: YES DEFINITELY

ziggywombat: [more off topicness]:

In reply to:

And like I said (and I think I've said this a hundred times by now) I didn't look for a purebred. I was just looking for a long-haired dachshund, because that's the dog I wanted


this meight just be a language thing, but if you want a specific breed, especially one that is rare in your part of the world, you're pretty much looking for a purebred (ie not mixed with any other breeds)

in theory, i think adopting from a shelter is a good idea. however, my dog is purebred, though not registered. long story short, i didn't want a dog, i wanted this dog.

the problem with shelter pets is you really don't know where they're coming from, so you could get some behavior or health problems you weren't expecting. like my cat is from a shelter, and we didn't get him as a kitten, so he's not very well socialized and never will be.

dice:

In reply to:

the problem with shelter pets is you really don't know where they're coming from, so you could get some behavior or health problems you weren't expecting


you'd still be better off than going to a damn pet store

ziggywombat: [pet stores are evil]:

In reply to:

you'd still be better off than going to a damn pet store


absolutely, there's no reason for anyone to buy animals from a pet store, except perhaps fish and hamsters and so on. even the best pet store cannot adequately socialize a puppy, and probably not a kitten either. and they usually get them from irresponsible and unreliable breeders.

Rather than words comes the thought of high windows

KAdministrator
(thunder ocean)
02/26/11 11:30 AM
I did not read all of the old thread, btw. new [re: Auntie Prism] Reply to this post

Interestingly, in Sweden foreign (outside of the EU, if I understand correctly) students now have to pay for their education but it's still free for EU nationals. In Finland on the other hand college and university level education is still free for everyone... though here too there are plan to start charging non-EU nationals for studying because it has worked "so well" in Sweden (in other words, the number of exhange students has dropped dramatically).

Also, as much as I liked E-head and his dog, "purebred" dogs (or other animals for that matter) are a concept of evil.

Trololololololololololololololololo

Quills
(kook)
02/26/11 05:43 PM
Re: I did not read all of the old thread, btw. new [re: K] Reply to this post

In reply to:

Also, as much as I liked E-head and his dog, "purebred" dogs (or other animals for that matter) are a concept of evil.


That is only your narrow minded opinion Kalle.

If you were English you would understand how we are with our dog breeds.


I went to a restaurant that serves 'breakfast at any time'. So I ordered French Toast during the Renaissance.


KAdministrator
(thunder ocean)
02/27/11 07:55 AM
THBDB & your very existence is somewhat unrefined new [re: Quills] Reply to this post

I perfectly understand that the English, with their inbread class distinctions, would see no problem in breeding dogs based primarily (and often entirely) on their looks and therefore completely ignoring health issues. Resulting in dog breeds that cannot breathe or see without the aid of surgery. If believing that an animals' health should come first makes me "narrow minded", then so be it.

Trololololololololololololololololo

ghostlove
(stardust savant)
02/27/11 09:39 AM
Re: THBDB & your very existence is somewhat unrefined new [re: K] Reply to this post

Very well put, Sys. Excellent examples of purebreeds with health issues are...Dalmations having blindness, German Shepherds with bad hips (my own family had to put one down after having him only a few days because of the suffering from this affliction...very sad), and Bulldogs with their breathing issues to name just a few.

My family has for the most part been a 'mutt' family and have had a long history of loveable pets with unique personalities. My wife and I currently have a Mini Schnauzer which my wife had before we married and though he is pure, he is as loveable as a mutt. My case being that there are issues with a lot of pure breeds, not that they are unworthy as pets. Dogs really do make good friends to human kind no matter which breed.



Wraith2
(killer in chic)
02/27/11 01:21 PM
Paid off my student loans too new [re: Auntie Prism] Reply to this post

In reply to:

Wraith18: I wanted to go to a place where I could be an be creative, take learning on my own terms, and smoke a lot of pot.


I totally aced all of these goals and one of the dogs I live with is a purebred dachshund...from a rescue, obvs.

die when you can do no more damage

Quills
(kook)
02/28/11 06:25 AM
Don't twist my words please new [re: K] Reply to this post

In reply to:

Resulting in dog breeds that cannot breathe or see without the aid of surgery.


Those breeds are now recognised by the Kennel Club as being cruel to breed and therefore it has been banned from show animal events such as Crufts.

There are many other pedigree breeds of dogs that live long and very happy lives.

I love all dogs not just pedigree but the choice is the owners not someone sitting on a high horse thinking he knows better.

I went to a restaurant that serves 'breakfast at any time'. So I ordered French Toast during the Renaissance.


ziggfriedModerator
(acolyte)
02/28/11 06:34 AM
Re: Don't twist my words please new [re: Quills] Reply to this post

In reply to:

If you were English you would understand how we are with our dog breeds.


In reply to:

not someone sitting on a high horse thinking he knows better.


Hmmm...



Quills
(kook)
02/28/11 09:17 AM
Re: Don't twist my words please new [re: ziggfried] Reply to this post

In reply to:

Hmmm...



You can Hmmm...all you like.



I went to a restaurant that serves 'breakfast at any time'. So I ordered French Toast during the Renaissance.


ziggfriedModerator
(acolyte)
02/28/11 05:21 PM
Re: Don't twist my words please new [re: Quills] Reply to this post

In reply to:

You can Hmmm...all you like.


I can? Woo-hoo! I mean, hmmm...



schizophrenic
(acolyte)
03/01/11 00:56 AM
WOO-HMMM new [re: ziggfried] Reply to this post

WOO-HMMM



Quills
(kook)
03/01/11 06:22 AM
Re: WOO-HMMM new [re: schizophrenic] Reply to this post

In reply to:

WOO-HMMM





I went to a restaurant that serves 'breakfast at any time'. So I ordered French Toast during the Renaissance.


KAdministrator
(thunder ocean)
03/01/11 02:13 PM
Re: Don't twist my words please new [re: Quills] Reply to this post

How did I "twist" your "words", please?

Trololololololololololololololololo

Auntie Prism
(stardust savant)
03/01/11 02:37 PM
Who slapped John? new [re: Wraith2] Reply to this post

In reply to:

I totally aced all of these goals and one of the dogs I live with is a purebred dachshund...from a rescue, obvs.


Sure. I haven't worked out yet whether it's better to be pleased or appalled to find yourself agreeing with your old posts. Being appalled is understandable enough, but agreeing is arguably worse, because it's like you've spent years in stasis when should've gone to some place better. It's as though you've beaten TW and you're still here eight years later …. That's hellish.

Well, maybe you have gone to a better place … except ... first post in a year, huh?

***

As for the rest of you minge-mops polluting this thread, I believe the button you're looking for is this one.

Rather than words comes the thought of high windows

KAdministrator
(thunder ocean)
03/01/11 02:50 PM
Push my buttons, beibe! new [re: Auntie Prism] Reply to this post

In reply to:

As for the rest of you minge-mops polluting this thread, I believe the button you're looking for is this one.


...but I was just having so much fun!

Trololololololololololololololololo

Wraith2
(killer in chic)
03/02/11 10:48 AM
King Cobra vs. Queen Bee new [re: Auntie Prism] Reply to this post

Is this how you're reinvigorating TW's moribund anatomy, WP? By desperately trolling the great posters of yore as soon as they make a cameo in the hopes that they'll stay and spar?

Catch me on a good day and I'll write you a sonnet.

die when you can do no more damage

Auntie Prism
(stardust savant)
03/02/11 12:32 PM
Grim fandango new [re: Wraith2] Reply to this post

The 'sure' wasn't sarcastic, if that's what you mean.

Nor was the rest of my post 'trolling'. It seems a fair comment that if you made good posts you were pretty much wasted at TW and should've moved on; or, if you didn't make good posts, you're doing penance by virtue of still being here. I was assuming you were a member of the former group.

In reply to:

Is this how you're reinvigorating TW's moribund anatomy, WP?


Eh? I'm here to kill my own boredom/procrastination, obviously. This isn't part of my wider plan to conjure TW up from its ashes for the 'greater good' with a juju bag and Dara kewpie doll.

Rather than words comes the thought of high windows

Remade/Remodeled
(acolyte)
03/02/11 07:01 PM
Re: Help Glitterbot Get to College!!! (05/03) new [re: Auntie Prism] Reply to this post

In reply to:

Give 'til it hurts...for Glitterbot's sake! (Eraserhead and Remade/Remodeled: this means YOU! )


Why the fuck were you calling me out, Alex? I was 18 and failing university myself while living off $200 a week, most of which went on booze and weed.

Good times, good times.


C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre

Dara
(acolyte)
03/05/11 02:37 AM
Attachment
All coming back to me now new [re: Auntie Prism] Reply to this post

Hey Ma, I just remembered how to quote....

In reply to:

This isn't part of my wider plan to conjure TW up from its ashes for the 'greater good' with a juju bag and Dara kewpie doll


Spoilsport clearly. Forget the kewpie, try this for size

Sorry, I'm all out of glib wit

Dara
(acolyte)
03/05/11 02:39 AM
Re: All coming back to me now new [re: Dara] Reply to this post



Sorry, I'm all out of glib wit

Auntie Prism
(stardust savant)
03/05/11 10:11 AM
Not *that* kind of juju bag, R/R new [re: Dara] Reply to this post

In reply to:

Forget the kewpie, try this for size


Hmm … a life-size Dara 'doll'? or Dara silencing a carving of someone else? Either way, good to see that you’re still around.

Okay, I'm gonna take requests, since I'm two for two on this thread alone. Next, perhaps I should try to summon TJ Newton from the wreckage of his Fiat 126?

Rather than words comes the thought of high windows

ziggfriedModerator
(acolyte)
03/05/11 06:54 PM
Re: Not *that* kind of juju bag, R/R new [re: Auntie Prism] Reply to this post

In reply to:

Next, perhaps I should try to summon TJ Newton from the wreckage of his Fiat 126?


I fear you have forgotten the wise warnings of Jud Crandall:



"Sometimes dead is better."



Dara
(acolyte)
03/06/11 01:15 AM
Boredom distractions new [re: Auntie Prism] Reply to this post

In reply to:

Hmm … a life-size Dara 'doll'? or Dara silencing a carving of someone else?


Close. My oldest son found a rather novel way to make the point many a son has felt compelled to make down the centuries: Does the old man ever shut up? Most wouldn't have the wherewithal to carve a life-sized facsimile of the old man's head from wood.

Sorry, I'm all out of glib wit

Glitterbot
(stardust savant)
07/07/11 04:38 AM
Re: Boredom distractions new [re: Dara] Reply to this post

Here's what I want to know: where are all the TW threads of the past? I wanted to stroll down memory lane just now but they were all gone, even those that I'm sure I would have looked back on and enjoyed. Remember those heady days of the mid/early internet? Where is Adam???

PS: I did go to college but it was an indulgent/upper middle class waste of time: Fun, but stupid; I learned no actual skills.



power2charm
(cook)
07/09/11 00:10 AM
Pass the douche, Part 2 new [re: Glitterbot] Reply to this post

It now seems to me that I put a fair amount of emphasis on celebrating my inner asshole on this board back in the day. Some of what I wrote then, I now regret. But I won't tell you which bits those are. You'll just have to guess.

____
Kid, you've paid your dues...dues and dues. ~J. Tweedy

strangeDivine
(acolyte)
07/28/12 00:22 AM
Re: Who slapped John? new [re: Auntie Prism] Reply to this post

In reply to:

...should've gone to some place better. It's as though you've beaten TW and you're still here eight years later …. That's hellish.


This is rather apt. At the moment I feel as though I'm in some obscure Buddhist hell of my own karmic-devising, especially since I've felt compelled to visit TW of late.

All these reminiscences are undoubtedly profound. But when it comes to ghostly echoes from the abyss, I to think that the saddest, yet most tragically-beautiful, thing about this thread is how it takes us back to a time when T.J. Newton was still on this earth with us. Many a night I've woken to the sound of chains rattling, and wondered whether it was him. His untimely death was perhaps the dark seed that started TW's demise, just as in Germanic mythology, Baldr's death inaugurates the process that leads to Ragnarok.

And you know, I toured an 18th century home a while back, and the guide told us about the old belief that when someone dies in a house, it is necessary to cover up all the mirrors, lest the spirit get trapped in there until the end of time. Well, what if there is some truth in that? And what if it applies also to the internet? Could T.J.'s soul be trapped on these very fora, like a spectral virus? It's a chilling thought.

This post was composed using strangeDivine Writing Style No. 2, © 2006.


I got nothing in my head. I quit thinking in 1952.--Charles Manson

WildWind
(acolyte)
12/15/12 04:13 PM
I'm here because I have a final on Monday new [re: strangeDivine] Reply to this post

Motherfucker, where was I for the original thread and its resurrection?

"What's Tonga?" - Christopher Meloni

Auntie Prism
(stardust savant)
01/08/13 07:34 PM
ghosts always signify a deeper, darker history new [re: strangeDivine] Reply to this post

Perhaps i should dump the whole lot of threads i have here (in a zip file). They were way too cumbersome to edit manually, even if it means we can't add to them.

Looking through them, there seems to be an unhealthy fascination with a yorkshire terrier abuser. Your favourites are omitted for sure.

I suppose i need to find a file host which doesn't delete stuff after x number of downloads or ~7 days.

Man would rather will the void than nothing at all

strangeDivine
(acolyte)
01/08/13 09:29 PM
"And the dead will outnumber the living..." new [re: Auntie Prism] Reply to this post

In reply to:

Perhaps i should dump the whole lot of threads i have here (in a zip file). They were way too cumbersome to edit manually, even if it means we can't add to them.


You should do that. It's an auspicious time - what with a new Bowie album coming out (gasp) and a slew of old geezers returning to this site in response. It's a better time than any in the past few years to bring back the old threads. I mean, Sylvanelf posted today! What has happening?

I often think about what a big impact TW had on my life. I don't mean to get sincere here, but it was a great outlet for a teenager in Bush's America. TW had a big impact on me intellectually. And it also made my "real" life seem more tolerable! On the other hand, I have some apprehension about seeing too clearly into the past. I'm sure I'll find that there was far more dog molestation than intelligent discussion than my sometimes rosy memory suggests.

By the way, I think that the world did in fact end this December and the sudden revival of these fora is a symptom of that.

This post was composed using strangeDivine Writing Style No. 2, © 2006.


I got nothing in my head. I quit thinking in 1952.--Charles Manson

Auntie Prism
(stardust savant)
01/09/13 09:56 AM
The Passagenwerk new [re: strangeDivine] Reply to this post

In reply to:

TW had a big impact on me intellectually. […] On the other hand, I have some apprehension about seeing too clearly into the past. I'm sure I'll find that there was far more dog molestation than intelligent discussion than my sometimes rosy memory suggests.


I wasn’t smart enough to engage in the most interesting threads when they happened, though they certainly influenced what I thought subsequently. I can’t even remember what my schtick was … I certainly didn’t know much about Bowie, and I don’t think I was ever popular here … I can’t help thinking I spent several years as some kind of horrible proto-4chan troll.

I say the ‘most interesting threads’ above – by which I mean arguments over abortion, Palestine, Iraq, US politics, TW moderating. There’s very little actual Bowie-related stuff in the zip file. I’m afraid it’s not that kind of archive.

There are actually way more threads than I thought – over 200. I had around 30-40 saved from 2003/4 (some have typos in the titles, don’t rename them if you want them to display properly); but I raided the Internet Archive’s Wayback Machine a couple of years ago and spent ages trawling through dead links/circular links, with the result that I saved just about anything that worked. Quality is highly variable and threads with missing picture links—including missing smilies—are from this second archiving.

There must be several 100,000s of words in there. Don’t read it all in one go. Having survived here so long it would be terrible to go crazy five years after the boards unofficially died.

Can’t find a decent file host (filedropper for whatever reason is not working), so you’re stuck with this: http://www.filehosting.org/file/details/409980/TW.zip – which requires you to enter an email address and spams you with popups but seems to work ok after that. If the link dies, send me a PM (more likely to notice that than a post here). Or perhaps someone can upload it to a better host.

Man would rather will the void than nothing at all

strangeDivine
(acolyte)
01/11/13 07:42 PM
//////////////////sad new [re: Auntie Prism] Reply to this post

I feel like the Library of Alexandria is at my fingertips.

But I've gotten dummer and dummer when it comes to technology. When I click the link to download the zip file that comes via email, I'm taken to a page where I can upload a file, not download one.

This post was composed using strangeDivine Writing Style No. 2, © 2006.


I got nothing in my head. I quit thinking in 1952.--Charles Manson

Auntie Prism
(stardust savant)
01/12/13 08:21 AM
The Library of Aleczandah new [re: strangeDivine] Reply to this post

ok, a couple more tries ...

http://www.fileconvoy.com/dfl.php?id=g26f1aeb0cf05a67d9991955827ecf13f580471c4c

http://www.datafilehost.com/download-981c6897.html

re. the broken images/smilies ... I think even a couple of years ago there used to be option in IE to view pages 'online' or 'offline', and selecting online used to repair them. (Even though the threads are dead, they're still live on the Internet Archive, where I took [most of] them from.) I've no idea where that's gone or where the equivalent option in firefox/others is nowadays. IE5 will probably fix it if you're interested.

Man would rather will the void than nothing at all

Auntie Prism
(stardust savant)
01/12/13 08:31 AM
homespun IT theories new [re: Auntie Prism] Reply to this post

In reply to:

IE5 will probably fix it


nope, and i found the online/offline option in firefox and that didn't help either. well, at least you get the text in posts separated properly.

Man would rather will the void than nothing at all


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