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infidel
(kook)
02/07/06 02:17 AM
Re: So what is the problem? [re: Dara]  

In reply to:

Now, we in the enlightened west would never do such a thing. I mean, we'd never destroy a country's infrastructure, bomb it back into the stone age, hand power to terrorist thugs and religious nutbags and kill a 100,000 civilians in the process all because of the actions of their undemocratically elected leaders over whom they had no control. Or did we?

Dara


Here we go again having another go at the "West". What is it with you lefties??? Forget the friggin West for the moment ...
and what about islams stance on the rest in the non Western world;
Russia, Israel, India, Argentina, Japan, China, Singapore, East Timor, Bali, Irian Jaya, Philippines,
Thailand, Nepal, Kenya, Sudan, Somalia, Chad, Nigeria etc

.....................

The picture on the left is of a lucky young girl who managed to avoid being slaughtered in the name of Allah as thousands of other children and innocent people are by Islamic terrorists each year. The drawing on the right is a cartoon. Only one of these images provokes Muslims into rage, fiery demonstrations, boycotts and death threats against the perpetrators. Do you understand Islam well enough to know which one?

Rest of the story here and also here (from Asia News) if interested!



guiltpuppy
(cracked actor)
02/07/06 04:06 AM
Re: So what is the problem? [re: infidel]  

Are you from Russia, Israel, Argentina, Japan, et cetera?

No, you're part of the Western culture, one that is every bit as violent and destructive as those wacky Muslims.

What Dara's calling you (and others) out on is hypocrisy. When your (and my) civilization ceases to commit wholesale slaughter in the name of Dollah, then maybe you'll have the moral high ground from which to spew your vitriole (which will still look petty, but all the same).



Strawman
(acolyte)
02/07/06 04:44 AM
Re: So what is the problem? [re: guiltpuppy]  

The vitriol I've spouted comes from a personal level as well as anything else - call it hypocrasy on my behalf, fair retribution on theirs or whatever the fuck you like, I'll stick with calling it free speech & just so long as the muslims and lefty twats like yourself don't get their way, I shall bloody well have my opinions.


Cunt.

On the ball city
Newcastle away


Pablo-Picasso
(acolyte)
02/07/06 04:52 AM
Re: So what is the problem? [re: Strawman]  

I find the people trying to stick up for this violent faction quite sickening, them trying to justify this kind of violence over a bloody cartoon is just incomprehensible. The Muslims were being parodied as a violent religion, so what do they do to counter that? They perform acts of mindless violence. Hardly going to change many peoples attitudes are they?

It was stupid to publish the pictures as it was obvious what the response would be, but that cannot excuse the actions thereafter, and at the wrong people.

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Illustrated Discography
Bassman
Helden

diamondogz74
(freecloud)
02/07/06 09:36 AM
Re: So what is the problem? [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

In reply to:

It was stupid to publish the pictures as it was obvious what the response would be, but that cannot excuse the actions thereafter, and at the wrong people.


Sorry but I do not agree with that statement, If we in the west wish to draw cartoons of whatever? we have the free right to do so, It is the western culture of free speech, when one visits a muslim country as I do twice a year ( and hopefully should end up living in a muslim country ), I respect their wishes and rights.

Besides not all muslims are like these mad bastards.


London Bye Ta-Ta...

Pablo-Picasso
(acolyte)
02/07/06 09:57 AM
Re: So what is the problem? [re: diamondogz74]  

I never said that they shouldn't be shown, I just said that it was stupid, and I would take it further and say it was irresponsible to.
Yes maybe there is freedom to do things, but that does not mean that there will not be repurcusions after. What I am trying to say is that the publication was fully aware that it would cause unrest. Sometimes restraint is needed. I am not saying that things like this should not be published, but considering the volatility of the world at the moment, it would have been wiser not to.

Would you go up to someone you know to be violent and purposely try and make them annoyed, knowing full well that they are going to punch you in the face? If you are intelligent, you would know not to antagonise the person.

The ironic thing about this episode is that the cartoons were lampooning the stereotypical view of Muslims by the media and some of the population. Instead of the Islamic community rising above such silly views, they acted out the very roles that people expect them to.


I am very aware that not all Muslims are like these 'mad bastards', unlike what you said earlier in the thread. Sadly, however, it is those who shout loudest that are taken notice of

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Illustrated Discography
Bassman
Helden

Emil
(acolyte)
02/07/06 10:09 AM
anything goes bla bla yada yada [re: diamondogz74]  

In reply to:

If we in the west wish to draw cartoons of whatever? we have the free right to do so


Yes, you do have the right to insult people - formally, and up to a certain limit: there are laws in most European countries that limit the degree to which you can insult, humiliate or provoke someone. That is, of course, beside the point, since the pictures in question were clearly legal. Still if you are within legal boundaries, it can be morally questionable to insult your fellow human beings. And in this specific case, the cartoons in Jyllandsposten, if I am correctly informed the intent was to provoke and stir up a fight. More or less, "let's see how the muslims react to this one, hehe!".

or David Bowie.

Dara
(acolyte)
02/07/06 10:11 AM
Re: So what is the problem? [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

In reply to:

The Muslims were being parodied as a violent religion, so what do they do to counter that?



Well, now you're just doing exactly the same thing as the extremists on the other side when they blame "the Danes" for the actions of one newspaper.

"The Muslims" are not alone in violently protesting. I seem to remember "the Christians" killing a few doctors in the US for performing abortions because it was against their Lord's will.

Demonization of the other side as one big homogenous bunch of nutcases just plays into the hands of the extemists on both sides. It is only when moderates take control on both sides that any kind of progress towards mutual tolerance and respect will be made.

Right now, with Bush in the White House busy slashing billions from the health budget to have even more money for guns and ammo, and his lapdog Blair supporting him from Downing Street, the moderates certainly do not have control of the west. That just makes it easier for the extremists in the Islamic world.

If this cartoon had appeared at a time when the Islamic world had no justifiable grievances against the west, it would have blown over. But when people are pushed around and disenfranchised, they cling illogically to symbols of their identity, and over-react to percieved slights.

Thirty or forty years ago an Englishman walking into a pub in Ireland telling an anti-Irish joke would in all likelihood have the shit kicked out of him by the locals. Now they'd laugh it off as jealous ravings. Because the country has progressed to the point where we're wealthier per capita than our neighbours and have better services and are more self confident about our own image, people don't get as worked up any more about silly things like jokes or cartoons.

I wouldn't try it in Belfast though, mind.

Slan libh,

Dara

"I don't think there's any place better in the world to be than Ireland when there's a sporting event. I love it, I love the humour of the Irish people, I love that they enjoy life to the full" - Brent Pope

bibiStardust
(crash course raver)
02/07/06 10:13 AM
Re: So what is the problem? [re: Dara]  

In reply to:

So what is the problem?


The media?

If you want to know me more...and my band !
Chuck Norris counted to infinity - twice.



Pablo-Picasso
(acolyte)
02/07/06 10:28 AM
Re: So what is the problem? [re: Dara]  

Surely you are intelligent enough to know that I was referring to the Muslims who were actively demonstrating with acts of violence and not to the total Islamic religion.

I have said above it was irresponsible for the papers to publish these pictures, but even so, why should that erupt into violence?

You mention the Christians in the USA, well those people involved, like the Muslims who corrupt the words of their religion to further their own agenda, are wrong, any sane person would understand that. Do you not think though, that a baby being aborted, is a little more serious than a cartoon?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Illustrated Discography
Bassman
Helden


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