Teenage Wildlife

IMPORTANT: Use your registry nickname as your username when logging in to Conversation Piece!


Free for All
   >> Coffee Shop
Thread views: 6980 Previous threadView all threadsNext thread*Threaded Mode

Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | (show all)
infidel
(kook)
02/06/06 11:58 AM
So what is the problem? new  





Pablo-Picasso
(acolyte)
02/06/06 12:03 PM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: infidel]  

Well I certainly don't think a cartoon should spawn the violence and now death we have seen, and think if people could just laugh at themselves more the world would be a much better place.

However, knowing that hard-line Muslims would be offended by these cartoons, I feel it was irresponsible to publish them as it was obvious to any sane person that it would cause the kind of riotiing we have seen.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Illustrated Discography
Bassman
Helden

sonofsilence
(two inch thoughts)
02/06/06 12:24 PM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

it was for irrisponsible to publish these. But strange isnt it? Say for instance Life of Brian takes the piss out of jesus and christianity yet you dont see a bunch of christians starting a full scale riot and killing eachother. As much as you would see is them writing a strong letter to the times and standing outside video shops with placards singing songs of praise.


It has hit a raw nerve all the same



FastChanges.
(grinning soul)
02/06/06 12:33 PM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: sonofsilence]  

In reply to:

... and standing outside video shops with picards singing songs of praise.


Jean-Luc Picards ?

I look like a llama.

infidel
(kook)
02/06/06 12:38 PM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

A turkish muslim shot Pope John Paul II, yet we did not see the world's 1.3 billion Catholics go on a rampage and screaming for the destruction of Turkey, all muslims etc.

Also muslims destroyed the two giant statues of Buddha in Afghanistan just a few years ago, and just like the Roman Catholics the Buddhists also showed great restraint.

Muslims, including many of the so called moderate ones are so retarded. They lash out continually against Jews, Christians, Hindus etc. but if anyone dares to question their religion all hell breaks loose. These uneducated muslim morons need to understand that their opinions are not relevant to anyone who lives in a society that has advanced beyond the 12th century.




Pablo-Picasso
(acolyte)
02/06/06 01:11 PM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: infidel]  

Although some of your words are stronger than I would personally use, I cannot but agree with your statements about how others' show restraint in the face of religious disregard, yet if Islam is treated with less than full respect there is no end of protests and violence.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Illustrated Discography
Bassman
Helden

Monkeyboy
(band intro)
02/06/06 01:47 PM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

I agree. Sand niggers can always be counted on to react inappropriately. Not like us Christians. We are peaceful people.



"I was borned in england." - b_mardle

Pablo-Picasso
(acolyte)
02/06/06 01:51 PM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: Monkeyboy]  

Well put it this way, MonkeyBoy, when the Life of Brian was released, no one got killed in the protests about it.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Illustrated Discography
Bassman
Helden

Persilot
(stardust savant)
02/06/06 02:07 PM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

In reply to:

Well put it this way, MonkeyBoy, when the Life of Brian was released, no one got killed in the protests about it.


You weren't watching Richard and Judy earlier by any chance?


"Better dead, than smeg."

Monkeyboy
(band intro)
02/06/06 02:08 PM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

In reply to:

when the Life of Brian was released, no one got killed in the protests about it.


Since Christians have the bombs, they have the luxury of keeping their protests large and global.

"I was borned in england." - b_mardle

Pablo-Picasso
(acolyte)
02/06/06 02:08 PM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: Persilot]  

No, I was out getting pie and chips.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Illustrated Discography
Bassman
Helden

Pablo-Picasso
(acolyte)
02/06/06 02:11 PM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: Monkeyboy]  

So are you saying the protests over the weekend, in reaction to a cartoon were justified?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Illustrated Discography
Bassman
Helden

Monkeyboy
(band intro)
02/06/06 02:16 PM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

In reply to:


So are you saying the protests over the weekend, in reaction to a cartoon were justified?


You know what...yes. Yes they were. Because I couldn't possibly be saying anything else, right?

Jackass.

"I was borned in england." - b_mardle

Persilot
(stardust savant)
02/06/06 02:19 PM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: Monkeyboy]  

In reply to:

Since Christians have the bombs


In the case of a government or coalition of countries using their influence or power to disadvantage Muslims, I'd agree that rioting of this scale could be understood. Why is it though that an entire nation has to be vilified for the actions of an independent newspaper, over which the government has absolutely no control?

In all fairness why should the Danish Government apologise for the distribution of the cartoon? If anyone it should be the newspaper owners/editor.

"Better dead, than smeg."

Monkeyboy
(band intro)
02/06/06 02:23 PM
Alright, you seem to be playing along new [re: Persilot]  

In reply to:

Why is it though that an entire nation has to be vilified for the actions of an independent newspaper, over which the government has absolutely no control?


Alright, now replace the term "newspaper" with "terrorist organization" and you might see where I'm coming from. By "you" I mean "everyone."

I'm not validating anything, I'm just offering a different perspective.

"I was borned in england." - b_mardle

diamondogz74
(freecloud)
02/06/06 02:24 PM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: infidel]  

In reply to:

A turkish muslim shot Pope John Paul II, yet we did not see the world's 1.3 billion Catholics go on a rampage and screaming for the destruction of Turkey, all muslims etc.


Precisely and well put infidel.

If these extremely radical muslims wish to live in the western world, then they have to abide by our liberal media laws, If they don't like it? then fuck off back.

Did you see the banners they were flaunting? butcher/murder those who print these images, sad fucking bunch of hopeless morons.


London Bye Ta-Ta...

Monkeyboy
(band intro)
02/06/06 02:31 PM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: diamondogz74]  

In reply to:

If these extremely radical muslims wish to live in the western world,


You know what happens when you assume things, right?

In reply to:

sad fucking bunch of hopeless morons


Language, Tony...language! I thought you didn't resort to such crude words!

I think that you have pretty much pointed out my issue with a lot of people's take on this: we have the privelege of downplaying their reactions as that of uncivilized little sand niggers. To me, it's sort of a snowball thing.

"I was borned in england." - b_mardle

Persilot
(stardust savant)
02/06/06 02:32 PM
Re: Alright, you seem to be playing along new [re: Monkeyboy]  

In reply to:

I'm not validating anything, I'm just offering a different perspective


Good point well made.

I don't think anyone in today's world is blameless and entirely unpartisan. However incidents like this are only going to reinforce stereotypes across the world and drive people further apart.

"Better dead, than smeg."

Beltene
(stardust savant)
02/06/06 02:36 PM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: FastChanges.]  

In reply to:

Picards



I'm currently at Picards. Jean-Luc is not here yet. Karaoke starts in 5 hours and we(the peer support group) be singing songs when it does. (in case anyone cares)

I fart in your general direction.

Dara
(acolyte)
02/06/06 02:39 PM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: Persilot]  

In reply to:

In the case of a government or coalition of countries using their influence or power to disadvantage Muslims, I'd agree that rioting of this scale could be understood. Why is it though that an entire nation has to be vilified for the actions of an independent newspaper, over which the government has absolutely no control?


People all over the world have trouble understanding societies very different from their own, and distinguishing between the offending actions of the few when they are a subset of the many. If you lived in a country where everything is controlled by the religious authorities and a few corrupt oil barons, you might have difficulties getting your head around the concept of "free press".

Of course vilifying an entire nation for the actions of one newspaper is wrong, but that's what uneducated people do: get things wrong, and extrapolate the perceived wrong of a small group onto the much bigger group of which they are a part.

Now, we in the enlightened west would never do such a thing. I mean, we'd never destroy a country's infrastructure, bomb it back into the stone age, hand power to terrorist thugs and religious nutbags and kill a 100,000 civilians in the process all because of the actions of their undemocratically elected leaders over whom they had no control. Or did we?

Slan libh,

Dara

"I don't think there's any place better in the world to be than Ireland when there's a sporting event. I love it, I love the humour of the Irish people, I love that they enjoy life to the full" - Brent Pope

diamondogz74
(freecloud)
02/06/06 02:40 PM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: Monkeyboy]  

In reply to:

Language, Tony...language! I thought you didn't resort to such crude words!


I apologize for my bad language, I'm not a great user of it, but this behaviour made my blood boil.

In reply to:

I think that you have pretty much pointed out my issue with a lot of people's take on this: we have the privelege of downplaying their reactions as that of uncivilized little sand niggers. To me, it's sort of a snowball thing.


Good point.


London Bye Ta-Ta...

Monkeyboy
(band intro)
02/06/06 02:56 PM
Re: Alright, you seem to be playing along new [re: Persilot]  

In reply to:

However incidents like this are only going to reinforce stereotypes across the world and drive people further apart.


Absolutely, and it's our job - as the "civilized" society - to try and balance this natural emotional response with some amount of reason and even (dare we entertain it:) compassion.

"I was borned in england." - b_mardle

Froggy Starlust
(stardust savant)
02/06/06 03:14 PM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: Beltene]  

Beltene, you must absolutely join us. We were just having tequila and we'll soon be on our way to chase all those hot Parisian babes.



They can't put you away for saying weird things.

Strawman
(acolyte)
02/06/06 03:42 PM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

In reply to:

I feel it was irresponsible to publish them as it was obvious to any sane person that it would cause the kind of riotiing we have seen.


Yeah, like their media has never published anything that could be interpreted as offensive, or ridiculed anything regarding western beliefs in anyway.

And what if we reacted in the way they do? Within their fucking countries!

I've had enough of the bastards and the fucking idiots who're supposed to govern this country - a country that makes me, a hard working, over taxed, law abiding englishman feel like a second class citizen.

Final straw for me was last night, when on arrival back to the country where my ancestory can be traced back the best part of three hundred years, I was questioned by a fucking Rag Head going through Stanstead of all things

FUCK OFF !

On the ball city
Newcastle away


Pablo-Picasso
(acolyte)
02/06/06 03:54 PM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: Strawman]  

If you are going to quote me, make sure you take the whole of the statement into consideration.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Illustrated Discography
Bassman
Helden

Strawman
(acolyte)
02/06/06 04:37 PM
White Muslims new [re: Monkeyboy]  

Dara, Monkeyboy & all you other Mong lovers?

My forefathers created a country called Pakistan.

Why don't you fuck off and reside there and take the authentic muslims with you?

A little muslim humour

On the ball city
Newcastle away


NoMoreNoLess
(wild eyed peoploid)
02/06/06 04:53 PM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: infidel]  

http://www.michellemalkin.com/archives/004413.htm


http://skender.be/supportdenmark/SupportDenmark3EN.png



Strawman
(acolyte)
02/06/06 05:27 PM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: infidel]  

Those fucking cartoons have given these primatives yet another excuse to show their true colours, and demonstrate what a very real and terrifying threat these savage cunts pose to us all.

In indonesia the peaceful rabble stormed then destroyed the lobby of the Danish embassy.

In London they publicly carried placards proclaiming amongst other things 'SLAY THOSE THAT INSULT ISLAM' and 'BEHEAD THE DISBELIEVERS'

The wankety media on the news then went to great lengths to explain that these threats were not to be taken literally, and it just demonstated the levels of frustration that the muslims were feeling WELL WHAT A FUCKING SHAME!!!

They should be feeling a lot more frustrated.They should be frustrated at having to pack everything they own and leave this nation within 24 hours or face certain death.

They should be frustrated at having to leave a peace-loving, beautiful country and have to return to a third world shit hole they clearly belong in.

They should be frustrated at knowing that most decent indiginous, british folk detest them and want their stinking arses out of their country.

There is a paragraph in this months excellent AXIOM bulletin that sums up perfectly how most of the UK feels:-

"I despair at the utter lack of courage, motivation, racial pride and tribal instinct of todays white population of Britain".

Spot on.




On the ball city
Newcastle away


infidel
(kook)
02/07/06 01:09 AM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: Monkeyboy]  

In reply to:

Since Christians have the bombs, they have the luxury of keeping their protests large and global.


Even though as you put it “muslims do not have the bombs”, muslims are THE ones keeping their protests large and global and their atrocities are far too many to mention here.

The following is a very small sample of islam’s most recent terror by either attacking and or threatening the following countries;
All of Europe, USA, Russia, Israel, India, Australia, New Zealand, Argentina, Japan
China, Singapore, East Timor, Bali, Irian Jaya, Philippines, Thailand, Nepal
Kenya, Sudan, Somalia, Chad, Nigeria etc etc etc

Furthermore you have different types of islam such as the sunni, shiite, etc at each others throats. Not to mention all the other types of tribal islam leading muslim’s to slaughtering each other as seen in;
Algeria, Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Libya, Tunisia, Sudan, Indonesia, Bangladesh, Lebanon, Syria etc

Many islamic countries have governments and a culture that still allows barbaric human rights abuses such as;
- castrating of homosexual men
- beheading of fellow muslims (and infidels)
- keeping entire muslim populations illiterate
- stoning of women to death
- even moderate islamic Turkey still carries out honour killings (wife killing to save the family name)
- muslim men’s treatment of women in general is well documented and known

The utter hypocrisy is that muslim countries regularly lampoon Christians and Jews in their comics
while demanding the West refrain from any criticism of islam

By threatening to kill those who insult them, the terrorists are demonstrating the vicious reality behind the caricature of Mohammad wearing a bomb-shaped turban, better than any cartoonist ever could.




infidel
(kook)
02/07/06 01:57 AM
Re: Alright, you seem to be playing along new [re: Monkeyboy]  

In reply to:

Absolutely, and it's our job - as the "civilized" society - to try and balance this natural emotional response with some amount of reason and even (dare we entertain it:) compassion.


Why is it "our" job ??? Why can't the muslims learn to behave like human beings for a change?! They could start by treating their women and minorities with more dignity for starters! But ofcourse you well know that's not going to happen any time soon ... not in our life time anyway.



infidel
(kook)
02/07/06 02:17 AM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: Dara]  

In reply to:

Now, we in the enlightened west would never do such a thing. I mean, we'd never destroy a country's infrastructure, bomb it back into the stone age, hand power to terrorist thugs and religious nutbags and kill a 100,000 civilians in the process all because of the actions of their undemocratically elected leaders over whom they had no control. Or did we?

Dara


Here we go again having another go at the "West". What is it with you lefties??? Forget the friggin West for the moment ...
and what about islams stance on the rest in the non Western world;
Russia, Israel, India, Argentina, Japan, China, Singapore, East Timor, Bali, Irian Jaya, Philippines,
Thailand, Nepal, Kenya, Sudan, Somalia, Chad, Nigeria etc

.....................

The picture on the left is of a lucky young girl who managed to avoid being slaughtered in the name of Allah as thousands of other children and innocent people are by Islamic terrorists each year. The drawing on the right is a cartoon. Only one of these images provokes Muslims into rage, fiery demonstrations, boycotts and death threats against the perpetrators. Do you understand Islam well enough to know which one?

Rest of the story here and also here (from Asia News) if interested!



guiltpuppy
(cracked actor)
02/07/06 04:06 AM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: infidel]  

Are you from Russia, Israel, Argentina, Japan, et cetera?

No, you're part of the Western culture, one that is every bit as violent and destructive as those wacky Muslims.

What Dara's calling you (and others) out on is hypocrisy. When your (and my) civilization ceases to commit wholesale slaughter in the name of Dollah, then maybe you'll have the moral high ground from which to spew your vitriole (which will still look petty, but all the same).



Strawman
(acolyte)
02/07/06 04:44 AM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: guiltpuppy]  

The vitriol I've spouted comes from a personal level as well as anything else - call it hypocrasy on my behalf, fair retribution on theirs or whatever the fuck you like, I'll stick with calling it free speech & just so long as the muslims and lefty twats like yourself don't get their way, I shall bloody well have my opinions.


Cunt.

On the ball city
Newcastle away


Pablo-Picasso
(acolyte)
02/07/06 04:52 AM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: Strawman]  

I find the people trying to stick up for this violent faction quite sickening, them trying to justify this kind of violence over a bloody cartoon is just incomprehensible. The Muslims were being parodied as a violent religion, so what do they do to counter that? They perform acts of mindless violence. Hardly going to change many peoples attitudes are they?

It was stupid to publish the pictures as it was obvious what the response would be, but that cannot excuse the actions thereafter, and at the wrong people.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Illustrated Discography
Bassman
Helden

diamondogz74
(freecloud)
02/07/06 09:36 AM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

In reply to:

It was stupid to publish the pictures as it was obvious what the response would be, but that cannot excuse the actions thereafter, and at the wrong people.


Sorry but I do not agree with that statement, If we in the west wish to draw cartoons of whatever? we have the free right to do so, It is the western culture of free speech, when one visits a muslim country as I do twice a year ( and hopefully should end up living in a muslim country ), I respect their wishes and rights.

Besides not all muslims are like these mad bastards.


London Bye Ta-Ta...

Pablo-Picasso
(acolyte)
02/07/06 09:57 AM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: diamondogz74]  

I never said that they shouldn't be shown, I just said that it was stupid, and I would take it further and say it was irresponsible to.
Yes maybe there is freedom to do things, but that does not mean that there will not be repurcusions after. What I am trying to say is that the publication was fully aware that it would cause unrest. Sometimes restraint is needed. I am not saying that things like this should not be published, but considering the volatility of the world at the moment, it would have been wiser not to.

Would you go up to someone you know to be violent and purposely try and make them annoyed, knowing full well that they are going to punch you in the face? If you are intelligent, you would know not to antagonise the person.

The ironic thing about this episode is that the cartoons were lampooning the stereotypical view of Muslims by the media and some of the population. Instead of the Islamic community rising above such silly views, they acted out the very roles that people expect them to.


I am very aware that not all Muslims are like these 'mad bastards', unlike what you said earlier in the thread. Sadly, however, it is those who shout loudest that are taken notice of

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Illustrated Discography
Bassman
Helden

Emil
(acolyte)
02/07/06 10:09 AM
anything goes bla bla yada yada new [re: diamondogz74]  

In reply to:

If we in the west wish to draw cartoons of whatever? we have the free right to do so


Yes, you do have the right to insult people - formally, and up to a certain limit: there are laws in most European countries that limit the degree to which you can insult, humiliate or provoke someone. That is, of course, beside the point, since the pictures in question were clearly legal. Still if you are within legal boundaries, it can be morally questionable to insult your fellow human beings. And in this specific case, the cartoons in Jyllandsposten, if I am correctly informed the intent was to provoke and stir up a fight. More or less, "let's see how the muslims react to this one, hehe!".

or David Bowie.

Dara
(acolyte)
02/07/06 10:11 AM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

In reply to:

The Muslims were being parodied as a violent religion, so what do they do to counter that?



Well, now you're just doing exactly the same thing as the extremists on the other side when they blame "the Danes" for the actions of one newspaper.

"The Muslims" are not alone in violently protesting. I seem to remember "the Christians" killing a few doctors in the US for performing abortions because it was against their Lord's will.

Demonization of the other side as one big homogenous bunch of nutcases just plays into the hands of the extemists on both sides. It is only when moderates take control on both sides that any kind of progress towards mutual tolerance and respect will be made.

Right now, with Bush in the White House busy slashing billions from the health budget to have even more money for guns and ammo, and his lapdog Blair supporting him from Downing Street, the moderates certainly do not have control of the west. That just makes it easier for the extremists in the Islamic world.

If this cartoon had appeared at a time when the Islamic world had no justifiable grievances against the west, it would have blown over. But when people are pushed around and disenfranchised, they cling illogically to symbols of their identity, and over-react to percieved slights.

Thirty or forty years ago an Englishman walking into a pub in Ireland telling an anti-Irish joke would in all likelihood have the shit kicked out of him by the locals. Now they'd laugh it off as jealous ravings. Because the country has progressed to the point where we're wealthier per capita than our neighbours and have better services and are more self confident about our own image, people don't get as worked up any more about silly things like jokes or cartoons.

I wouldn't try it in Belfast though, mind.

Slan libh,

Dara

"I don't think there's any place better in the world to be than Ireland when there's a sporting event. I love it, I love the humour of the Irish people, I love that they enjoy life to the full" - Brent Pope

bibiStardust
(crash course raver)
02/07/06 10:13 AM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: Dara]  

In reply to:

So what is the problem?


The media?

If you want to know me more...and my band !
Chuck Norris counted to infinity - twice.



Pablo-Picasso
(acolyte)
02/07/06 10:28 AM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: Dara]  

Surely you are intelligent enough to know that I was referring to the Muslims who were actively demonstrating with acts of violence and not to the total Islamic religion.

I have said above it was irresponsible for the papers to publish these pictures, but even so, why should that erupt into violence?

You mention the Christians in the USA, well those people involved, like the Muslims who corrupt the words of their religion to further their own agenda, are wrong, any sane person would understand that. Do you not think though, that a baby being aborted, is a little more serious than a cartoon?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Illustrated Discography
Bassman
Helden

Dara
(acolyte)
02/07/06 10:48 AM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

In reply to:

Do you not think though, that a baby being aborted, is a little more serious than a cartoon?


I don't think either of them are hanging offences. On balance though, I'd probably be a little more upset to find my daughter mocking and insulting ethnic minorities on religious grounds than I would be to hear she'd decided of her own free will to have an abortion.

One final point: vested interests in the Islamic world are manipulating the media coverage to make this seem like a much bigger deal than just a cartoon. Notably, the Iranian Government, who want to prepare their people for some tough times ahead if the UN sanctions them because of their nuclear programme, and Hamas, who are looking to strengthen their bargaining position.

Similarly, vested interests in the West are making this seem like a much bigger deal than it is to the average Muslim.

Extremists on both sides are driving the bus. Not just that, but they've persuaded the rest of us to pay to have the bus converted into a tank, and we're not allowed to look outside to see for ourselves what's really going on. They want us to take their word as gospel.

Slan libh,

Dara


"I don't think there's any place better in the world to be than Ireland when there's a sporting event. I love it, I love the humour of the Irish people, I love that they enjoy life to the full" - Brent Pope

Monkeyboy
(band intro)
02/07/06 11:25 AM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

In reply to:

any sane person would understand that.


One would certainly think so. Unfortunately, sanity is a more objective term than we would like.

"I was borned in england." - b_mardle

Monkeyboy
(band intro)
02/07/06 11:28 AM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: diamondogz74]  

In reply to:

as I do twice a year


Wow, Tony, you're amazing!

And I agree that we have a long tradition of free speech.


"I was borned in england." - b_mardle

Edited by Adam on 02/08/06 09:36 AM (server time).



infidel
(kook)
02/07/06 01:15 PM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: Dara]  

In reply to:

I don't think either of them are hanging offences. On balance though, I'd probably be a little more upset to find my daughter mocking and insulting ethnic minorities on religious grounds than I would be to hear she'd decided of her own free will to have an abortion.


yep ... spoken like a true leftie.
................................................................................................................................................................................................





Shelle
(cracked actor)
02/07/06 02:23 PM
Lessons in human nature new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

In reply to:

The Muslims were being parodied as a violent religion, so what do they do to counter that? They perform acts of mindless violence.



The small minority of Muslims performing these acts are not worried about being portrayed as violent: what they're objecting to is perceived blasphemy.

The vast majority of Muslims just want to live their lives peacefully like the rest of us without worrying about cartoons.

Cultural and religious differences aside, human nature is the same the world over. In any group, you have a small fanatical extremist group who wants victory at all costs, and sees good only in their own group, and evil exclusively in others. Some of these, like our own Infidel, are just mindless morons whose creator sadly made them without the critical faculty for deductive reasoning. Some are smart manipulators who see that in a polarized situation, they can rise to power over their own group.

The rest of us pretty much just want to be left in peace. When the group is attacked from the outside by another big group, be it a real attack or a phony one dreamt up by extremists, ours or theirs (911, this cartoon), then this majority groups fragments. At least half respond in knee jerk fashion, willing to believe the extremist's demonization of the other group. They're not dumb, but they're not smart enough or cool enough in a perceived crisis to think clearly, so they rally in unquestioningly behind their "leaders". That leaves the rest of us as the cowed minority, hoping that sanity will be restored.

You can be sure that the ragheads jumping up and down mindlessly attacking Danish targets are the Pablito- and Strawman-equivalents on the other side, not the Monkeyboys and Daras.

He'll have you wrestling midgets in border towns for ten percent of the net.


Shelle
(cracked actor)
02/07/06 02:30 PM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: Dara]  

In reply to:

Extremists on both sides are driving the bus. Not just that, but they've persuaded the rest of us to pay to have the bus converted into a tank, and we're not allowed to look outside to see for ourselves what's really going on. They want us to take their word as gospel.



Oooo, that's good.

That's sigworthy good.

Extremists on both sides are driving the bus. Not just that, but they've persuaded the rest of us to pay to have the bus converted into a tank, and we're not allowed to look outside to see for ourselves what's really going on.


Shelle
(cracked actor)
02/07/06 02:35 PM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: infidel]  

In reply to:

yep ... spoken like a true leftie.



Don't tell me that after all that garbage you spouted about Muslims mistreating women, you don't support a woman's right to choose abortion?


Extremists on both sides are driving the bus. Not just that, but they've persuaded the rest of us to pay to have the bus converted into a tank, and we're not allowed to look outside to see for ourselves what's really going on.


Tin
(stardust savant)
02/07/06 02:36 PM
B I N G O ! new [re: bibiStardust]  

Reading this thread kept bringing back memories of a conspiracy talk show host, Dave Emory, I used to listen to often. He'd refer to this situation as pure distraction from actual events of more pressing matters. In the US I guess you could say this latest Muslim uprising via a cartoon gives more credence to the Patriot Act and wire tapping. So, it's supporting what our government wants while pushing the same stories off the front page.

I am sure there are issues at hand far more improtant than a blasphemous cartoon in the Middle East as well.

DISTRACTION via the media via Bushie et al.

It is my opinion and I am unanimous in this, because it is my opinion, which is, in fact, mine.

Shelle
(cracked actor)
02/07/06 02:48 PM
Re: B I N G O ! new [re: Tin]  

In reply to:

In the US I guess you could say this latest Muslim uprising via a cartoon gives more credence to the Patriot Act and wire tapping. So, it's supporting what our government wants while pushing the same stories off the front page



Exactly. As Dara mentioned, Bush is currently raiding Medicare for more money for guns and ammo, and he's making it acceptable for the Government to tap our phones without as much as a by your leave.

Extremists on both sides are driving the bus. Not just that, but they've persuaded the rest of us to pay to have the bus converted into a tank, and we're not allowed to look outside to see for ourselves what's really going on.


diamondogz74
(freecloud)
02/07/06 03:00 PM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

In reply to:

I never said that they shouldn't be shown, I just said that it was stupid, and I would take it further and say it was irresponsible to.
Yes maybe there is freedom to do things, but that does not mean that there will not be repurcusions


What is the point of drawing a satirical cartoon and then being afraid to publish it? just because some people don't agree with it? Far too much fench sitting

In reply to:

Would you go up to someone you know to be violent and purposely try and make them annoyed, knowing full well that they are going to punch you in the face? If you are intelligent, you would know not to antagonise the person.


Why should anyone be intimidated by a mad crowd of radical muslims, they don't rule the whole earth, damn them and damn their dark age religious views.


London Bye Ta-Ta...

Pablo-Picasso
(acolyte)
02/07/06 03:05 PM
Re: So what is the problem? [re: diamondogz74]  

Ok Anthony, you are right, same as everyone else, I will keep my opinions to myself, because everything I say is being taken the wrong way. Sick of this place today.


Sorry for being British. It was not my fault.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Illustrated Discography
Bassman
Helden

diamondogz74
(freecloud)
02/07/06 03:14 PM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

In reply to:

Sick of this place today.


You know the boards as well as anyone else here, make your point/opinion/s clear, then stick to it.

I'm not saying I'm right, I'm saying what I believe.


London Bye Ta-Ta...

Strawman
(acolyte)
02/07/06 04:13 PM
So safe in your little world new [re: Shelle]  

In reply to:

That leaves the rest of us as the cowed minority, hoping that sanity will be restored


Sat on a fence as well intentioned do-gooders offering fuck all in the way of solutions while the cancer is allowed to grow unchecked, you mean.

You naive twat.

On the ball city
Newcastle away


Shelle
(cracked actor)
02/07/06 04:21 PM
You're all slogans, no solutions new [re: Strawman]  

Your lobotomy didn't go well, did it?

It just left you dull and, well, dull.

Extremists on both sides are driving the bus. Not just that, but they've persuaded the rest of us to pay to have the bus converted into a tank, and we're not allowed to look outside to see for ourselves what's really going on.


Marquis
(fetch a priest)
02/07/06 05:44 PM
Shouting Fire at the Movies new [re: diamondogz74]  

In reply to:

What is the point of drawing a satirical cartoon and then being afraid to publish it? just because some people don't agree with it?...Why should anyone be intimidated by a mad crowd of radical muslims, they don't rule the whole earth, damn them and damn their dark age religious views.


Dogz, U R dumb.

Publishing these cartoons has nothing to do with showing bravery in the face of an oppressive force. As you said, the muslims and their dark age religious views don't rule the whole world; they don't even rule Denmark. What Pablo's saying - and he's completely right - isn't that the Danish Government should have stopped them from being published, but that those newspapers should have exercised a little bit more journalistic responsibility.

Why not publish them? For one, they're not especially clever/funny/impressive. For another, while creating images of Mohammed isn't offensive to *you* personally, these papers have to know that it would be extremely offensive to a large segment of the world. For a third, these papers have to know that certain large and well-armed segments of the people they're going out of their way to insult can be just a tad prickly when it comes to issues of religious propriety.

It's a simple cost-benefit analysis, and the only benefit seems to be proving that the Danish press can say anything it damn well pleases - which anyone who didn't already know it probably doesn't care anyway.

bitch niggaz talk behind ya back like a catcher
either M-Y-O-B or B-Y-O stretcher


guiltpuppy
(cracked actor)
02/07/06 05:51 PM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: Strawman]  

In reply to:

I'll stick with calling it free speech & just so long as the muslims and lefty twats like yourself don't get their way, I shall bloody well have my opinions.



You fucking dumbass. When have I ever suggested you shouldn't have the legal right to spout your bullshit? I'll give you a hint: Never. Equating disagreement with what you're saying to an attack on your right to say it takes a tard and a half, or a mongrel Scotsmen.

I hope Muslims rape every virgin in your family. Call that what you like, I'm calling it FREE SPEECH and that just excuses everything!



guiltpuppy
(cracked actor)
02/07/06 06:02 PM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

In reply to:

I find the people trying to stick up for this violent faction quite sickening, them trying to justify this kind of violence over a bloody cartoon is just incomprehensible.


I don't think anyone has tried to "defend" these people, so much as criticize the us-good them-bad black-and-white idiocy that's running rampant among the lower-bred element of the forum.

Let's say, hypothetically, that I start a thread spouting off about how lesbianism is a wretched awful moral sin, and FredPhelps replies and says "shut up faggot, you're a sinner faggot yourself"... Would you accuse Phelps of defending lesbians?



power2charm
(wild eyed peoploid)
02/07/06 07:05 PM
When Chuck Norris drew a big Mo 'toon.... new [re: Marquis]  

the hardline imams thanked him for the flattering image, and backed away slowly, mumbling prayers to Allah to protect them from Chuck's roundhouse kick.

How was that? It was my first Chuck Norris joke.

In reply to:

Publishing these cartoons has nothing to do with showing bravery in the face of an oppressive force.


Well, it might. Just today I listened to an interview on NPR with a WSJ journo in Copenhagen, and he was asked how these cartoons came to be published. Apparently, Danish media felt they have been overly fearful of offending Muslims - cowed, I suppose - and so they invited several cartoonists to draw Mohammed cartoons for publications as a way of addressing the self-imposed censorship. Only eleven of apparently hundreds of these invited cartoonists submitted works, and those were published in September.

That said, I'm not sure that this particular newspaper's editors realized the no-tooning policy vis. Mo. And apparently, the restriction varies among sects anyway.

witty aside for Shelle to fume over: Come to think of it, this restriction really inhibits graphic novel evangelism for those folks!

So getting back to your points, 'quis-town, I think the Danish paper felt that there *was* a need to loosen the noose they felt over the issue of Islam. I mean, *can* we say Islam is a ridiculous, shit religion without those folks planting bombs in our Tivas? We need to go ahead and hash out that issue.

I read on another messageboard that the Muslims have won. You won't be seeing any fresh 'toons of Mo after this blows over. So there you have it. At least we can still lampoon Bush, so that's cool. He looks goofier, and I would be hard pressed to tell Osama from his favorite prophet anyhow.

____
Kid, you've paid your dues...dues and dues. ~J. Tweedy

Marquis
(fetch a priest)
02/07/06 07:28 PM
I fart on your shit new [re: power2charm]  

In reply to:

Apparently, Danish media felt they have been overly fearful of offending Muslims - cowed, I suppose - and so they invited several cartoonists to draw Mohammed cartoons for publications as a way of addressing the self-imposed censorship.


Addressing the issue? Or deliberately insulting people? If the goal of the Danish media here is to deal with their perceived constraints about offending Muslims, there are a lot more productive ways to go about doing it. If I feel that the Christian Right exerts too much influence in the US, there are better ways to register my frustration than publishing pictures of Jesu Christo in full-on tubgirl mode.

In reply to:

I think the Danish paper felt that there *was* a need to loosen the noose they felt over the issue of Islam.


And the question is, was this what was accomplished? All it did was push a few buttons, and make other press outlets even more wary about offending people in the future.

bitch niggaz talk behind ya back like a catcher
either M-Y-O-B or B-Y-O stretcher


EJ
(byroad singer)
02/07/06 08:08 PM
The Prince new [re: Marquis]  

In reply to:

As you said, the muslims and their dark age religious views don't rule the whole world; they don't even rule Denmark.


Hamlet from New York, it appears.

You pointed out an important argument here: There was no need to publish those (mildly funny) cartoons. No western paper was under any threat or muslim opression against which it had to defend itself. None. It was all about provocation. Nothing less. And by defending this action the media involved abuses the meaning of free press. Just as free speech doesn't mean you can insult anybody just as you please the idea of free press doesn't mean you may use the media for publishing just anything. In the German constitution we have the same paragraphs about free speech and media etc. as most modern countries have - but above all of those stands the preamble wich states that every individual's dignity is untouchable. And that includes people from other religions as well.

And while there is no doubt that the reaction from small but rowdy parts of the world wide muslim community is as bad as it is obviously directed by people in the wings it is as clear that the unprovoked publishing of those cartoons was a deliberate act of provocation. And therefore it doesn't count as the great defense of democracy and freedom in my books.

And I want to believe that a light's shining through somehow


power2charm
(wild eyed peoploid)
02/07/06 08:57 PM
Chuck Norris roundhouse kicked yer mom.... new [re: Marquis]  

and that's how you were conceived!

Do you know how much I like you, Marquis? Enough to link you to the NPR interview with the WSJ guy:

Mohammed hates da papparazi

Not that you can listen to it at work, or can you?

The cartoons are not that offensive, and I think the one where Mo has a bomb in his turban makes a political point and serves as commentary - incendiary commentary, yes, but that's what political cartoons do. They yank chains. And those whose chains are getting yanked need to deal with that rationally.

I think this whole thing is weird. We're in Iraq and yet the most intense riots in the Middle East towards the West are about Danish cartoons. No wonder these folks regularly get rolled by the Israelis - they r stoopid!

____
Kid, you've paid your dues...dues and dues. ~J. Tweedy

Marquis
(fetch a priest)
02/07/06 09:28 PM
Jack Bauer would murder Chuck Norris in his sleep new [re: power2charm]  

In reply to:

Not that you can listen to it at work, or can you?


Nope, no speakers.

In reply to:

The cartoons are not that offensive


By our standards, sure, but to a lost of Muslims, just a stick figure labelled "Mohammed" would be offensive.

In reply to:

And those whose chains are getting yanked need to deal with that rationally.


This is true, and I don't mean to suggest that rioting over cartoons is any more productive than publishing them in the first place. My point isn't that the violent reaction is justified, just that it's not unexpected either. Are these folks stoopid for getting riled up over some cartoons? Maybe. I just think it's equally stoopid for a newspaper to intentionally rile them in the first place.

bitch niggaz talk behind ya back like a catcher
either M-Y-O-B or B-Y-O stretcher


power2charm
(wild eyed peoploid)
02/07/06 09:44 PM
Jack Bauer's a complete homo! new [re: Marquis]  

Let's show the Muslims how it's done. I AGREE that publishing a dozen cartoons of Mohammed in one issue of a rag can be construed as baiting. If it were one cartoon, I'd say local Muslims would just need to gnaw on their prayer rug and bear it.

These were published in September, and I've read that some caveman imams brought them back to Arabia and mixed in some artistic representations of Mo fucking pigs (see Strawman's "artiste" thread) to rile folks up.

I think the pig fucker pictures are trying too hard too offend. I'd just say pish to that malarkey.

____
Kid, you've paid your dues...dues and dues. ~J. Tweedy

infidel
(kook)
02/08/06 00:28 AM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: guiltpuppy]  

In reply to:

Are you from Russia, Israel, Argentina, Japan, et cetera?

No, you're part of the Western culture, one that is every bit as violent and destructive as those wacky Muslims.

What Dara's calling you (and others) out on is hypocrisy. When your (and my) civilization ceases to commit wholesale slaughter in the name of Dollah, then maybe you'll have the moral high ground from which to spew your vitriole (which will still look petty, but all the same).


I have explained before in a few previous posts that …I am a Black and I am not originally from the West ... I was born muslim but
have renounced islam and now converted to a peaceful religion and culture which the West has offered to me (an my family) as refugees.

In the name of islam, my so called fellow muslims tortured my family and I to breaking point, thankfully we all survived and entered the Christian West as refugees. But unfortunately some of my friends and work colleagues where either maimed or killed ... some just simply disappeared and never seen again. We have experienced and witnessed the human rights abuses in the name of islam first hand.

Most of my immediate and extended family (about 70% of us) has converted from islam to our new religion. Whilst one cousin has left islam and is now an atheist, he was always the white sheep of the family … get it … “white sheep”.

My family and I where muslim from birth but …we where seen as subhuman because of our “wrong” Black skin colour and because of our “wrong” tribal background … arabs are not too keen on us niggers apparently. I do realize that some Western countries have had a bad past with Blacks and slavery etc … but it was the past. Whilst islam also guilty of both European and Black African slavery in its past, is still enforcing this in the 21st century. Infact it’s happening in the African countries of Sudan-Darfur, Chad etc as we speak, where muslim arabs are killing and displacing hundreds of thousands Black Christian and Black muslims Africans.

Remember once muslim migration numbers increase in a nation to a majority like 50% or more of the population, then it’s inevitable that islamic ideology takes over … and then “YOU become the minority” and you will be a second class citizen.

At the moment some non-muslim countries only have 1% to 2% of population being muslims … but once that small percentage becomes a substantial minority of say 10% (as in France) or 20% or 30% of a country's population … that is it ! … they have the power to slowly erode and change your life your culture, values and so on.

By its own ideology islam is extremely conservative by nature, therefore as seen throughout ALL muslim countries freedom of speech and freedom of the press will be a thing of the past. Thus obviously resulting in the gagging of the liberal socialist left types, who so much championed the cause of muslim migration to the Christian Western countries in the first place. Sweet irony.

Again … the utter hypocrisy is that muslim countries regularly lampoon Christians and Jews in their comics while demanding the West refrain from any criticism of islam.

(My using lower caps for the words arab, muslim and islam is not a spelling error it is intentional)






bibiStardust
(crash course raver)
02/08/06 02:17 AM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: infidel]  

In reply to:

now converted to a peaceful religion


That does not exist...


If you want to know me more...and my band !
Chuck Norris counted to infinity - twice.

Edited by bibiStardust on 02/08/06 03:48 AM (server time).



Starlite
(acolyte)
02/08/06 03:52 AM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: infidel]  

You know, when I first heard of these protests, I was suitably shaken and taken aback. I still am.

But thing is, it's never so simple. Yes, Denmark has free speech. Yes, it had the right to publish that cartoon. But the difference between that cartoon, and the various cartoons mocking Christianity? (Some of which get protested too, by the way...)

As of right now, Islam is being attacked as a religion, and A Big Christian country is doing a rather good job of attacking a large portion of the Middle East. It's also doing a rather good job of demonizing Muslims in general, and marginalizing them whenever it can--or siding with other countries that do so.

The northern European countries are also having, shall we say, some problems with their immigrant populations. It's a rather tense atmospehere, and that cartoon is a rather unwise match in a chamber full of fuel.

Imagine if a paper in America had published a racially offensive cartoon. You can bet there'd be outrage. Hopefully there wouldn't be such violent outrage, but I wouldn't necessarily count on it.




bibiStardust
(crash course raver)
02/08/06 05:37 AM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: Starlite]  



Mahomet says : "It's hard to be loved by jerks"

If you want to know me more...and my band !
Chuck Norris counted to infinity - twice.



Dara
(acolyte)
02/08/06 06:04 AM
Our solutions may not be Final enough for you new [re: Strawman]  

In reply to:

offering fuck all in the way of solutions


We have proposed solutions. Just not the kind we can condense down to a readily digestible Sun headline or catch all slogan for your benefit.

The "solution" offered by the right, the "liberation" of Iraq to defeat terror, has turned out to be a case of the cure making the disease worse.

Slan libh,

Dara

"I don't think there's any place better in the world to be than Ireland when there's a sporting event. I love it, I love the humour of the Irish people, I love that they enjoy life to the full" - Brent Pope

Strawman
(acolyte)
02/08/06 07:34 AM
'By Bullet & By Bomb' new [re: Dara]  

And at what time do we run out of legitimate political solutions? The battle to regain my country will never be won at a polling booth - Government has already proved that one way to gain respect is through violence & terrorism when it caved in to the IRA - animal right activists are getting results from intimidating their enemies also.

I suggest this type of action as a solution will take place once there's been a massive islamic attack on both the credulous British voters & the innocent supporters of nationalism.

And it will happen.



rumblingspires
(mortal with potential)
02/08/06 07:48 AM
Re: 'By Bullet & By Bomb' new [re: Strawman]  

I'm sorry strawman but I do not think an armed struggle would get you anywhere in the UK.

When the white population voted for the Labour Party-ie.readers of the Sun newspaper and watchers of big brother etc they got exactly what they deserved. The destruction of their country by an undefended foreign invasion.

This invasion is now accelerating and I think in 10 years time the population of the UK will be 30% ethnic. However because of your culture which in non-confrontational you will just be walked all over and sublimated. Once the ethnics get the upper hand they will disadvantage you in your own homeland. It is already happening with dhimmitude and the muslims.

Most UK whites are gutless and fatalistic. The underclass of whom there are many living on the govt.benefits and handouts will continue to interbreed with niggers, and as long as they can sit and live for free,watch TV ,snort coke,and drink beer-no problem.

I know you english are very angry with all this but I am afraid that this is the truth. I (london being my birthplace) used to get really upset when I visited the wog dominated parts of the UK like London,now I just avoid the place.

I am very,very sad about what is happening but as a tiny minority opinion realize that your cause is doing very badly. Right wing politics are doing well in France and Austria but in spite of that Turkey will probably get into the EU> What then?? Over-run with third world muslim fanatics who will all be able to vote for the likes of Hammas who will put up a party in your elections.

I am sorry to write this but the writing is truly on the wall and there is little you can do about it.Labour is the nail in your coffin for hope,freedom and your culture. Bumping off some half baked councillor will make no difference and it takes you to the level of those you despise most.

I am glad my parents moved to Ireland when they did.





bibiStardust
(crash course raver)
02/08/06 08:02 AM
Re: 'By Bullet & By Bomb' new [re: rumblingspires]  

Fuck... i wish i could say something , but I don't get a word you say

If you want to know me more...and my band !
Chuck Norris counted to infinity - twice.



rumblingspires
(mortal with potential)
02/08/06 08:06 AM
alarm sirens new [re: bibiStardust]  

RETARD ALERT!!



Strawman
(acolyte)
02/08/06 08:21 AM
Re: 'By Bullet & By Bomb' new [re: rumblingspires]  

In reply to:

Most UK whites are gutless and fatalistic. The underclass of whom there are many living on the govt.benefits and handouts will continue to interbreed with niggers, and as long as they can sit and live for free,watch TV ,snort coke,and drink beer-no problem.


I hear you - but the war I'm suggesting is one of survival, therefore it's inevitable.

And as with the forthcoming World Cup - may the best team win.

In reply to:

Bumping off some half baked councillor will make no difference and it takes you to the level of those you despise most.


Where did I state anything about killing politicians in my previous post?

Besides, do you really think that such attacks would produce public disgust? I think you overrate the love our fellow-countrymen bear towards the political classes, and under-estimate the anger people feel about what is actually happening to our nation.

diamondogz74
(freecloud)
02/08/06 09:36 AM
Re: 'By Bullet & By Bomb' new [re: Strawman]  

I read today that the very same cartoons were published in the french press, when will our press have the guts?


London Bye Ta-Ta...

b_mardIe
(wild eyed peoploid)
02/08/06 09:40 AM
Re: 'By Bullet & By Bomb' new [re: diamondogz74]  

why would they want to provoke them even more by publishing them. would you want them to go out of there way too upset people and caurse more fighitng

I am an architect, they call me a butcher
I am a pioneer, they call me primitive
I am purity, they call me perverted


diamondogz74
(freecloud)
02/08/06 09:55 AM
Re: 'By Bullet & By Bomb' new [re: b_mardIe]  

Chirac's appeal to French media


President Jacques Chirac asked media to avoid offending religious beliefs as a French newspaper reprinted caricatures of the prophet Muhammad that have sparked violent protests in the Muslim world.

Chirac said during a Cabinet meeting that he condemned "all obvious provocations likely to dangerously kindle passions".

"Everything that can offend the convictions of others - religious convictions in particular - must be avoided," the French president said in remarks quoted by government spokesman Jean-Francois Cope.

Earlier, satirical French weekly paper Charlie-Hebdo reprinted the Mohammed drawings originally published by a Danish newspaper, as well as a new caricature of its own that took up its entire front page.

Under the headline "Mohammed Overwhelmed by the Fundamentalists," the cover depicted the prophet with his head in his hands, remarking, "It's hard to be loved by idiots."


In reply to:

why would they want to provoke them even more by publishing them. would you want them to go out of there way too upset people and caurse more fighitng


I'm not saying publish to provoke these radical muslims, I'm saying the British press have the free right to do so if wished, my point being...If they wish to live here and be treated as equals, then they should understand our freedoms and ways, just as we do in their countries.

What a sad/pathetic world when people let a cartoon drive them to such madness.




London Bye Ta-Ta...

Strawman
(acolyte)
02/08/06 10:32 AM
Now they want to ban Playboy new [re: diamondogz74]  

Here..

Sensitive fuckers those muslims aren't they.

Christ! They wanna see an end to porn as well as free speech, mong-loving monkeyboy.



diamondogz74
(freecloud)
02/08/06 11:00 AM
Re: Now they want to ban Playboy new [re: Strawman]  

Thanks for link Strawie, nothing surprises me now with these mad fuckers.


London Bye Ta-Ta...

Pablo-Picasso
(acolyte)
02/08/06 11:05 AM
Re: Now they want to ban Playboy new [re: diamondogz74]  

In reply to:

Besides not all muslims are like these mad bastards.



In reply to:

Thanks for link Strawie, nothing surprises me now with these mad fuckers


In reply to:

You know the boards as well as anyone else here, make your point/opinion/s clear, then stick to it.



Erm......

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Illustrated Discography
Bassman
Helden

guiltpuppy
(cracked actor)
02/08/06 11:20 AM
Re: 'By Bullet & By Bomb' new [re: diamondogz74]  

In reply to:

I read today that the very same cartoons were published in the french press, when will our press have the guts?


I know, it is utterly shameful that the English-speaking press has, by and large, refused to stand up for the cause of racism. Racism is very important and if we are not championing racism in our newspapers then what is free speech good for? I do agree they should have the guts to be more racist, it is very cowardly the way they are refusing to belittle oppressed people, they should stand up for themselves with racism.



Marquis
(fetch a priest)
02/08/06 11:27 AM
Stove Polish new [re: guiltpuppy]  

In reply to:

I know, it is utterly shameful that the English-speaking press has, by and large, refused to stand up for the cause of racism.


Utter cowardice, you're right. And not just towards Muslims, either. As a protest against the unfair practice of Affirmative Action, I requested the LA Times to run this cartoon:



It's shameful cowardice that they didn't run it.

bitch niggaz talk behind ya back like a catcher
either M-Y-O-B or B-Y-O stretcher


Strawman
(acolyte)
02/08/06 11:34 AM
Re: 'By Bullet & By Bomb' new [re: guiltpuppy]  

Did any of those protesting muslims with their racially threatening placards look as though they were oppressed in any way?

During the protests In London a solitary, white, english civilian was arrested & thrown into the back of a wagon for attempting to demonstrate his views toward the muslims behaviour, however.

Oppression?



Starlite
(acolyte)
02/08/06 01:21 PM
Re: 'By Bullet & By Bomb' new [re: Strawman]  

If by "oppressed" you mean "literally pressed down by some sort of implement," then no. But y'know, during the civil rights riots, black people in the US had threatening placards too, and I bet some white people got hurt.

Obviously everything was hunky-dory with race relations in the US back then. And obviously, everything's great now, because black people can make complaints about white people harssing them, and some of those white people go to jail!

It is however unfortunate that the guy got thrown in jail for protesting, whatever his views were, but I'd like to know the full story on that.



FredPhelps
(wild eyed peoploid)
02/08/06 02:09 PM
TW Kisses Muhammed's Ass new [re: Strawman]  

Right On, Strawman. I'm glad someone's takin' on the hypocritical fag queers at TW.

God has sent down his wrath and smoted four more faggy Islam types who protested on the US Afghanistan military base. There's no sight more pleasing to God than to see the fags at each others' throats.

In reply to:

INFIDEL THE DARKIE: I am a Black and I am not originally from the West ... I was born muslim but
have renounced islam and now converted to a peaceful religion and culture which the West has offered to me


Bless you, Infidel, my child!

godhatesfags.com

Shelle
(cracked actor)
02/08/06 02:57 PM
Comfortably smug new [re: power2charm]  

In reply to:

The cartoons are not that offensive



And of course you as a smug comfortable middle-aged white American male are amply qualified to decide what is or isn't offensive to ragheads.

Even limited perusal of Web boards will tell you there are hordes of Americans itching to take offense at even the mildest criticisms of any or all things American.

We tend to get riled up even over the really stoopid stuff like our starry stripey rag, or pictures of the Pope being torn up.

Extremists on both sides are driving the bus. Not just that, but they've persuaded the rest of us to pay to have the bus converted into a tank, and we're not allowed to look outside to see for ourselves what's really going on.


Shelle
(cracked actor)
02/08/06 03:02 PM
Now I feel dirty new [re: infidel]  

In reply to:

Remember once muslim migration numbers increase in a nation to a majority like 50% or more of the population, then it’s inevitable that islamic ideology takes over … and then “YOU become the minority” and you will be a second class citizen



and

In reply to:

I am a Black



Good Lord, you're a nig???? Don't you realize that's far far worse than being a Muslim?

At least the ragheads drive around in big cars and nice clothes.

Can you imagine if the US ever went more than 50% nig? My God, we'd be like Africa! Africa!!!! Mass starvation, everyone with AIDS, living in mud huts, eating locusts. The horror!!!!

Extremists on both sides are driving the bus. Not just that, but they've persuaded the rest of us to pay to have the bus converted into a tank, and we're not allowed to look outside to see for ourselves what's really going on.


diamondogz74
(freecloud)
02/08/06 03:03 PM
Re: Now they want to ban Playboy new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

Your point being what?

If you had read my posts properly and not just bothered with a cheap dig! you would have noticed my opinions on the real culprits has not altered one iota.


London Bye Ta-Ta...

Shelle
(cracked actor)
02/08/06 03:06 PM
Re: 'By Bullet & By Bomb' new [re: rumblingspires]  

In reply to:

I am glad my parents moved to Ireland when they did.



I'll bet the average IQ of both countries went down when that happened.

Extremists on both sides are driving the bus. Not just that, but they've persuaded the rest of us to pay to have the bus converted into a tank, and we're not allowed to look outside to see for ourselves what's really going on.


power2charm
(wild eyed peoploid)
02/08/06 05:27 PM
Americans decide new [re: Shelle]  

In reply to:

And of course you as a smug comfortable middle-aged white American male are amply qualified to decide what is or isn't offensive to ragheads.


Obviously, my standard was not that of those most easily offended.

In reply to:

Even limited perusal of Web boards will tell you there are hordes of Americans itching to take offense at even the mildest criticisms of any or all things American.


I am amply qualified to decide that not all criticisms of America are that offensive. Now, what *is* your point? That I'm obliged to stand in and defend every dummy in my country and the Muslim world?

In reply to:

We tend to get riled up even over the really stoopid stuff like our starry stripey rag, or pictures of the Pope being torn up.


Sinead O'Connor and the editor of the Copenhagen Gazette have different jobs and different agendas. Which one of those individuals do you think hoped that hir action might offend? (Hint: the individual was bald at the time. Hint 2: Danes are known for their beautiful thick, lustrous hair, which they never cut.)

Incidently, I am amply qualified to decide that ripping up a picture of the Pope on SNL is not that offensive. Sinead O'Connor's singing, however....[you can finish the joke]

____
Kid, you've paid your dues...dues and dues. ~J. Tweedy

guiltpuppy
(cracked actor)
02/09/06 02:25 PM
Re: 'By Bullet & By Bomb' new [re: Strawman]  

In reply to:

Oppression?


Oh, I'm sorry, Muslims worldwide have only had their countries invaded & colonized, degraded to the second-class citizens in their homelands, been bombed and bombed again by people who are not terrorists, and watched their children die under sanctions (and also the aforementioned bombs). But oppressed? I guess not.

History goes back farther than September 11, 2001.



Coldfyr
(acolyte)
02/09/06 03:28 PM
Re: Americans decide new [re: power2charm]  

Hint 2: Danes are known for their beautiful thick, lustrous hair, which they never cut.


Eh? All the Danes I know cut their hair. and not all of them have thick hair...

Even the Royalty of Denmark




"A" is for Atonal, artfully adding audible auras

Strawman
(acolyte)
02/09/06 03:30 PM
Re: 'By Bullet & By Bomb' new [re: guiltpuppy]  

Oh, I'm sorry, perhaps I should've been more specific - I was refering to the protesting muslims who are comfortably residing in Europe and who are definately not oppressed in any way - well, except the ones in France.

In reply to:

History goes back farther than September 11, 2001


That's right - Go check it out.



Shelle
(cracked actor)
02/09/06 03:46 PM
Re: Americans decide new [re: Coldfyr]  

In reply to:

Eh? All the Danes I know cut their hair. and not all of them have thick hair...



Same here.

I doubt power2charm actually knows any Danes though. He might know some guys called Dane...

All his views on foreigners and their cultures seem to based on little or no life experience.

Extremists on both sides are driving the bus. Not just that, but they've persuaded the rest of us to pay to have the bus converted into a tank, and we're not allowed to look outside to see for ourselves what's really going on.


guiltpuppy
(cracked actor)
02/09/06 03:46 PM
Re: 'By Bullet & By Bomb' new [re: Strawman]  

In reply to:

I was refering to the protesting muslims who are comfortably residing in Europe and who are definately not oppressed in any way



Okay, so my talk of oppression was unfounded because you limited the scope to the area in which it didn't apply. I guess it's just as easy for me to say that any mention of terrorism is unfounded, because I'm going to ignore all instances of terrorism.

And I know my history, Strawman. Pick any scope of time -- the last hundred years, the last thousand years, the last week -- and more Muslims have been killed by Westerners than the reverse. Publishing images that mock people is always a little petty, but when those people are being slaughtered by your people, it strikes me as eminently fucked up.



Marquis
(fetch a priest)
02/09/06 04:27 PM
Dynasty Building new [re: guiltpuppy]  

In reply to:

Pick any scope of time -- the last hundred years, the last thousand years, the last week -- and more Muslims have been killed by Westerners than the reverse.


You hear that???

Scoreboard, bitches!

We act immaturely in a hurry to be old
- Dizzee Rascal

Strawman
(acolyte)
02/09/06 04:36 PM
Re: Dynasty Building new [re: Marquis]  




GP, I've had a few drinks & not up for serious discussion at this time - but rest assured I'll be back to tomorrow with what I hope will be a worthy reply.



b_mardIe
(wild eyed peoploid)
02/09/06 04:40 PM
Re: 'By Bullet & By Bomb' new [re: guiltpuppy]  

how many Jews, buddists, sikhs and fellow musilms have been murdered by muslims in the name of their faith?

I am an architect, they call me a butcher
I am a pioneer, they call me primitive
I am purity, they call me perverted


guiltpuppy
(cracked actor)
02/09/06 09:32 PM
Re: 'By Bullet & By Bomb' new [re: b_mardIe]  

A lot. But I don't think the fact that Westerners murder in the name of greed instead of God means you should remove them from any comparison.

I think much of the notion of the "violent Muslim" stems from the gross misunderstanding of the religions of the world. We treat Islam as being a small group of people, because the "norm" with which most of us are familiar are white Christians. In reality, 20% of the world's inhabitants are of Islamic faith; there's nothing peculiar about them, then, if they are responsible for about 20% of the world's violence.

The second factor in this misunderstanding has to do with the media. We hear about violence in the Muslim world because it has recently extended to us, and so it is relevant. The atrocities being committed by Christians in South America, by secularists in China, and by people of miscellaneous faiths in Africa are barely mentioned, and when they are we tend to ignore them, because "those people" have nothing to do with us. We've been attacked by Muslims, and so suddenly what happens in their part of the world is relevant to us -- at least, when it has something to do with the thing that made them familiar to us (violence.)

Looking at one, two, or even a hundred news reports and saying "this is what these people do" is incredibly naive when talking about a group so large in size. If you compare the violence committed by Muslims (1.3 billion people) to the violence committed by Americans (300 million people), or by the Western World (about 800 million people), the proportions are ridiculous. The difference is, we label all our wars and atrocities "just" for no real reason but for the fact that we have carried them out.



Beulah
(absolute beginner )
02/10/06 02:13 AM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: infidel]  

You know what the problem is?

Any race is a bit fucked-up. Becaue stupid people are everywhere. Ok, I must be honest. There are more stupid non-whites than whites, but in general, stupidity is universal.

I dislike politicians just as much as the next person. The lefties are too soft. The righties are too pig-headed. Both sometimes have brilliant ideas but most of the time, the idea that starts out good turns out fucked-up as some people bend it into the wrong shape intill it ends up into another corruption-fest.

So what can we deduct from this: There is just too many people in the world. Look at india and China and Africa (if it wasn't for Aids, there would be even more now). The more people there are, the more problems there will be.

Personally, I'm tired analyzing the news and seeing this lot fight that lot. And this group said this. And how dare that lot say that and look what this lot do to their kids and so on and on.

And when it comes to a silly cartoon, the Muslims, or who ever the people are who threw their toys out the cott, should just lighten up. (I know the Middle east don't lighten up easily though).

Grom a generalized view: Its true when they say not all non-white people are bad. There are many intelligent non-whites but I guess when it comes to the white race, we are still the best and civilized and intelligent - on the whole.






Starlite
(acolyte)
02/10/06 02:19 AM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: Beulah]  

You're kidding, right?

The various Asian cultures have got whites beat on both intelligence and civilization through various points in history, but especially the European dark ages. The Middle Eastern cultures were the most civilized in early history, and it's thanks to them that we have many of the ancient Greek and Roman texts, as they were the ones who preserved them for us while we were running around killing each other. Also, they did a lot of stuff for mathematics and astronomy.

African and American cultures all had their own merits too, but most of those we don't know about, because we stomped out their culture and killed them in our "civilized" way as soon as we landed on their shores.



Beulah
(absolute beginner )
02/10/06 04:25 AM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: Starlite]  

No, not kidding.

I don't agree with what you say on Asian cultures. Are you referring to the far east? They are just good at copieng everything the European nations initially discovered.

The middle east may have been great a few thousand years ago. Well it is really hard to compare them to anyone else at that stage because they say human life started there. So the rest of the earth was empty. All the asians and africans and europeans came to be as we know them from those early folk around the Tygrus and Eufrat rivers who split out in all directions to populate the earth.

So the middle eastern cultures were great at discovering the basics of mathematics and astronomy while most of Europe was really empty wasn't it. And what are the Greeks and Italians today? Not much.

About the African and American people. Well maybe the Europeans stomped out the Red Indians, but they did a lousy job in Africa. Africa looks pretty black to me. The Europeans basically gave up trying to bring civilization to those barbaric people.






power2charm
(wild eyed peoploid)
02/10/06 07:27 PM
The greatest lost track of all time.... new [re: Coldfyr]  

In reply to:

Eh? All the Danes I know cut their hair.


I've looked into the matter, 'fyr. It would appear I've mixed up Hollanders for Danes.

It's either that or I was just being silly. Let's leave it Shelle and her loads of life experience to determine.

____
Kid, you've paid your dues...dues and dues. ~J. Tweedy

Starlite
(acolyte)
02/10/06 10:32 PM
Re: So what is the problem? new [re: Beulah]  

In reply to:

Are you referring to the far east? They are just good at copieng everything the European nations initially discovered.


Uh-huh? Like, say... gunpowder, and compasses, and movable block printing, and paper, and silk, and embroidery, and various modes of art, and high court culture, and a written language...

They stole all of that from the Europeans back in 100-300s, or even earlier. Yup. White people sure had all those things back then.

In reply to:

Well it is really hard to compare them to anyone else at that stage because they say human life started there. So the rest of the earth was empty.


Oh, no. White people were around back at the time I'm thinking of, don't you worry. They were just busy running around from cave to cave and hut to hut with pointy sticks, and sacrificing each other.

In reply to:

The Europeans basically gave up trying to bring civilization to those barbaric people.


I think you mean "The Europeans basically did a good job ensuring civilization couldn't flourish there because they fucked the continent up so much."

Just a little over a thousand years ago, the Europeans were "those barbaric people." So making any racial statements is stupid, as you never know what will happen in another 500 years. Not to mention that white people continue to be pretty damn barbaric--as do all other people of the world. Human nature.



Monkeyboy
(band intro)
02/13/06 12:51 PM
Re: Jack Bauer's a complete homo! new [re: power2charm]  

In reply to:

I'd just say pish to that malarkey.


When violent reaction is the trendy form of protest in your neighborhood, though, simply blowing it off might seem to be underkill. And underkill for your prophet is never enough.

"I was borned in england." - b_mardle

Marquis
(fetch a priest)
02/13/06 06:35 PM
Bring the Pain! new [re: Monkeyboy]  

Before I loan out my copy of Consider the Lobster, I thought I'd share this sort of interesting and fairly relevant passage from "Host," DFW's profile of conservative talk radio personality John Ziegler. The bolded sentence I find particularly apt for this thread:

This is obviously a high-voltage area to get into, but for what it's worth, John Ziegler does not appear to be a racist as "racist" is generally understood. What he is is more like very, very insensitive - although Mr. Z himself would despise that description, if only because "insensitive" is now such a PC shibboleth. Actually, though, it is in the very passion of his objection to terms like "insensitive," "racist," and "the N-word" that his real problem lies. Like many other post-Limbaugh hosts, John Ziegler seems unable to differentiate between (1) cowardly, hypocritical aquiescence to the tyranny of Political Correctness and (2) judicious, compassionate caution about using words that cause pain to large groups of human beings, especially when there are all sorts of less upsetting words that can be used. Even though there is plenty of stuff for reasonable people to dislike about Political Correctess as a dogma, there is also something creepy about the brutal, self-righteous glee with which Mr. Z and other conservative hosts defy all PC conventions. If it causes you real pain to hear or see something, and I make it a point to inflict that thing on you merely because I object to your reasons for finding it painful, the there's something wrong with my sense of proportion, or my recognition of your basic humanity, or both.

We act immaturely in a hurry to be old
- Dizzee Rascal


Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | (show all)
Previous threadView all threadsNext thread*Threaded Mode
Jump to

Teenage Wildlife Davie Bowie | Email Us! Forums powered by WWWThreads v5.1.5perl

Teenage Wildlife Home Page Bowie's music Info on Bowie Other Media Have your say! Search the Site Help me!


Toolbar (Interact)

Etete Systems