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Persilot
(stardust savant)
05/24/06 05:50 PM
Re: Tube disasters new [re: Wraith2]  

In TW land, racism, homophobia, sexism and violence all pale into insignificance in light of the ultimate crime.

Daring to suggest that someone's freedom of expression should be curtailed!!!

Just a little bit of it can bring you up or down.Like the supper it is cooking in your hometown.it is chicken, it is eggs, it is in between your legs.it is walking on the moon, leaving your cocoon.

Starlite
(acolyte)
05/24/06 05:57 PM
Let's keep the foreplay to the PMs new [re: Monkeyboy]  

In reply to:

Oh fucking hell...whatever. Have I mentioned that you are a better person than I am?


I seriously wish I could see where you're getting that from my post. :-/ I mean, honestly.

I mean, I might approve or disapprove of something, or think that something's one way or another, but what does that have to do with being a better person? I might be entirely wrong. I might be right. In any case, it's not like that one thing has anything to do with the worth of a person, anyway.



Persilot
(stardust savant)
05/24/06 06:03 PM
Just out of interest new [re: Starlite]  

So honestly though... do you think you probably are a better person than Monkeyboy or not?

Just a little bit of it can bring you up or down.Like the supper it is cooking in your hometown.it is chicken, it is eggs, it is in between your legs.it is walking on the moon, leaving your cocoon.

Starlite
(acolyte)
05/24/06 06:10 PM
Re: Just out of interest [re: Persilot]  

Honestly, this is a pretty funny question due to the fact that I generally have issues with self-esteem and tend to think I'm a worse person than most rather than better.

But honestly again, I really don't know Monkeyboy at all well enough to make that type of judgement call. And except in cases of stark extremes, I'm not even sure such judgement calls are possible.



Monkeyboy
(band intro)
05/24/06 08:49 PM
Re: Tube disasters [re: Wraith2]  

In reply to:

However, people like O'Farrell write documents that aim to cause pain and I see no reason to respect their right to slander.


I think this is the big point where you and I differ on such things. I tend to encourage this type of bullshit because all it does is make the people who write it seem like ignorant assholes. I guess I'm coming from the assumption that racists (or an "ist" for that matter) aren't taken seriously by rational people. That being the case, the louder they scream their rhetoric - to me - the bigger red flag they are raising above their own heads. That and it's usually fucking funny to see their twisted logic. Sad, yes...but often funny at the same time.

But then again, I'm coming from a sense of white privelege so you should probably ignore anything that I have to say about anything not having to do with myself.

(insert catch phrase)

Monkeyboy
(band intro)
05/24/06 08:56 PM
Re: Let's keep the foreplay to the PMs [re: Starlite]  

In reply to:

I mean, I might approve or disapprove of something, or think that something's one way or another, but what does that have to do with being a better person? I might be entirely wrong. I might be right. In any case, it's not like that one thing has anything to do with the worth of a person, anyway.


There's an implied judgement in saying that you don't find something controversial funny. I guess it's something like how I once stated that I refuse to eat an all veggie meal. You know, it's hard to say these things without there being an implied "because I'm better than that" being tacked on at the end.

That and I really think that you feel a sense of moral superiority, generally speaking. I just like to bring it up every now and then. But we've talked about that.

(insert catch phrase)

Monkeyboy
(band intro)
05/24/06 09:00 PM
Bullshit [re: Starlite]  

Come on, Starlite. Don't dodge the question.

(insert catch phrase)

Starlite
(acolyte)
05/24/06 10:05 PM
Re: Bullshit [re: Monkeyboy]  

Sigh... no, see, that's not it. You keep asking me a question that seriously makes no sense to me. It's like I kept asking you if the sky were soft or hard, and got all impatient when you had a hard time answering.

In reply to:

You know, it's hard to say these things without there being an implied "because I'm better than that" being tacked on at the end.


For you, I guess. (And this is not because "I'm better than you," it's because "I guess I'm different than you.") Let's use vegetarianism as an example. Do I think it's wrong/bad to eat meat? Yeah. But does that mean I'm somehow a "better person" than anyone who does eat meat? Obviously not.

Because:

a) That person might be operating within a moral/conceptual system where according to their rules, it would NOT be wrong/bad to eat meat.

b) That person might do a whole bunch of other stuff that's really great, and have a genuine good core that is not impacted by one choice (or non-choice)--thus the eating of meat itself is irrelevant to the person's value.

c) Despite the fact that I do this thing which I consider good, I might be a petty, selfish, nasty creature in general. Thus I would in no way be the better person.

So, let me put in another way, was there "implied jufgement" in my comment that I don't like mock-racism of the type I descreibed? Yes! It wasn't even implied, I'll state right out that no, I don't like it and consider it "bad."

But if you're coming from an entirely different conceptual system, you may not see it this way. And so I'd hardly say you're inherently somehow a "worse" person just because I perceive a thing you do as displeasing, since you operate within a diffferent set of rules anyway.

And because of the fact that most people don't all have the same head-space, I think it's ridiculous to try and judge who's a better person than someone else anyway. Even the question is subjective, since people value different things in determining "better." For instance, I value empathy very highly, while as Wraith2 often considers it an unproductive expenditure of energy. We would likely have somewhat different opinions of the "goodness" of someone who is highly empathetic but who's too shy/scatterbrained/unmotivated to actially put that towards productive use.

But if one were to try and judge, one would need to have a very good understanding of the person, including not just a cross-sample of his or her actions, but also motivations and private views, and feelings, and emotional reactions, etc. Since I have only a very limited view of yours, Monkeyboy (as you've pointed out previously) I can hardly answer this question.



Monkeyboy
(band intro)
05/24/06 10:20 PM
Re: Bullshit [re: Starlite]  

In reply to:

But if one were to try and judge, one would need to have a very good understanding of the person, including not just a cross-sample of his or her actions, but also motivations and private views, and feelings, and emotional reactions, etc. Since I have only a very limited view of yours, Monkeyboy (as you've pointed out previously) I can hardly answer this question.


Yeah, but you can take a stab at it.

(insert catch phrase)

theidiot2
(grinning soul)
05/25/06 05:20 AM
Re: Tube disasters [re: Monkeyboy]  

In reply to:

I tend to encourage this type of bullshit because all it does is make the people who write it seem like ignorant assholes. I guess I'm coming from the assumption that racists (or an "ist" for that matter) aren't taken seriously by rational people. That being the case, the louder they scream their rhetoric - to me - the bigger red flag they are raising above their own heads.


The thing is you can't assume everyone's considering it rationally. "Dr" Ian Paisley is the leader of the biggest political party in Northern Ireland, and has been spouting similar bigotry about the evilness of Catholicism for forty years. He's clearly ridiculous, even calls Guinness the Devil's buttermilk (which is admittedly quite funny), but according to him the Pope is the Antichrist and lots of people swallow it up. In his constituency a fifteen year old Catholic boy was beaten to death on account of his religion. I'm not saying there's a direct link, or that "Dr" Paisley orders this sort of thing, but it's typical of the division his rhetoric fuels.




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