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power2charm
(stardust savant)
10/19/04 10:28 PM
The Euro Mods are watching you new  

I mentioned earlier today that I disdain the performance of our two European moderators (EJSunday and Sysiyo).

I want to be clear in this thread that I was not just joking around. They may be fantastic human beings, kind to animals, etc., but they suck as moderators. Let me explain.

First, I think it is wrong for a moderator to explicity state they do not like this or that poster. Both EJ and Sysiyo are guilty of this. Adam is a man of raging emotions, but he has the awareness that his position here precludes him from the mudslinging that you and I enjoy, and he possesses the self control to check himself.

I need not even comment on ohramona, who makes the lowliest pond scum of posters feel welcome and loved.

But we live in fear that we will run awry of one of the two Euros, that they will find us lacking and start badgering us and drumming up ill will in the lead-up to a possible banning. That is disasterous moderating, and it won't do a thing to make TW a nest for potential thomaswoods and pianocrafts.

Second, the plodding, mind-numbing, self-conscious commentary regarding threads in the wrong forum must stop. Nobody cares if the odd thread is not right on forum. Now I understand this passes for humor with those two, and lord knows they'll yuk it up ad nauseum over it, but the reality is, they are serious too. There must be something in the water over there that makes a good number of Euros very tight-assed, and that's unfortunate. I think tight-assedness is possibly a contributing factor towards the negative population growth on the old continent. But I'm not a scientist so I'll leave that to Emil and CLAUDE to sort out.

Third, I blame Sysiyo for the three month expiry in Artistes forum. I think he was for it just so he could decide which threads to keep and which to let die, the power hungry yetti.

In conclusion, Sysiyo and EJ must go. Adam got it right with ohro, but he's 1 for 4 overall (Tati is never here, which means she can't be moderating well). I don't know who should be their replacements, but it might be a good idea to look a bit more in Bowie's adopted home, or maybe Canada.

"Once in Germany someone said 'nein'!" ~ Jeff Tweedy


blacktropic84
(wild eyed peoploid)
10/19/04 11:46 PM
Re: The Euro Mods are watching you new [re: power2charm]  

I can be moderator! I live in Canada! AND i am almost ALWAYS here! :-P

Andy! Can I have a cup of coffee? ..... And a drummer?

All Sliced Up And Sealed Tight In Baggies
Guess Love Makes You Do Funny Things

Monkeyboy
(stardust savant)
10/20/04 03:52 AM
Re: The Euro Mods are watching you new [re: power2charm]  

Well I think we all agree that I would make a fantastic moderator. Unfortunately, I had to turn down the offer. I don't think Adam will mind my sharing of his PM that he sent to me. Here it is:

Dearest Monkeyboy,

As you know, I am a great admirer of your contribution to the boards and, yes, to life as we know it. While what I have to say in this correspondence would be an offer to many of the lesser posters in this craphole, I somehow feel that I am asking you for a favor more than anything. As you know, this place is rampant with stupid fuckers that can't manage to get their head out of thier own crotches long enough to post anything interesting. That's fine. They are cretins and can't help it. But I am tired of doing all the work in rangling in all the idiots and need someone to help. From reading every single post and hand-writing them all for my records to responding to endless PMs by tony about how my addiction to beef jerky is inexcusable and how he threatens me with death. Oh Jesus, it's just too much to handle. I really wish that Evan would have left this place in your control because I think you would do a fantastic job. Really stellar, you know. Like, just, oh god, fucking awesome! But I am obligated to continue working as whatever the little "A" stands for so cannot hand that title to you. But I think that if you were to be a moderator this website would be the coolest thing ever in the whole wide world. I mean, like, even more popular than yahoo. Those losers will never know what hit 'em. Them and their fancy-ass advertisers. FUCK THEM!!

So anyways. You wanna moderate or sumpin'?

If you think this is real you are an idiot,
Adam


It's really a shame for all of you slobbering fools that my porn addiction is such that I can't take on any other responsibilities.

For good or for awesome

hangontoyourself
(crash course raver)
10/20/04 05:10 AM
Re: The Euro Mods are watching you new [re: power2charm]  

I happen to think that the Euro-mods are much better...I see little of Adam here these days (I think I'm not looking in the right places or something) but have great respect for him too. It's only OhRomana who I dislike.

DD74 is my IDOL KEITH is my GOD
http://groups.msn.com/keithism
ALL YOU NEED IS KEITH

96dbFreak
(acolyte)
10/20/04 05:50 AM
Re: The Euro Mods are watching you new [re: power2charm]  

I think the Euro Mods are wimps. They let that bastard DD74 back in after only a month of banishment. He should have been hunted down, tied to a stake and fucking burned!

Still, being Europeans they're used to strict, extreme right-wing government with none of that American wishy-washy liberal Bill-Clinton-of-rights ninth amendment crapola. They should stay, and we should demand that they get nastier. You slacker Yanks get away with murder here and deserve a couple of Euro martinets to whip you into shape.

Stu
Get Bowie Back Downunder
The GBBD 2005 campaign starts here!


poorsoul
(acolyte)
10/20/04 05:52 AM
Sdam new [re: power2charm]  

In reply to:

I think tight-arsedness is possibly a contributing factor towards the negative population growth on the old continent.



Surely it would be loose arses that are the problem, distracting the men from proper procreational activities.

Slogan: "What Is On Your Mind?"



Arlequino
(crash course raver)
10/20/04 06:28 AM
Long live Big Brother new [re: power2charm]  

Yo, the Euro mods are fine!

Ok, so, somtimes Sys's 'this is in the wrong forum' can get a bit irksome, but neither I, nor anybody else, wanted to read some newbie's 'how do I get an avatar?' in the News forum. That's just obviously silly - so it gets moved. Nice and easy.

I personally don't like the 3-month expiry in the 'Artiste' forum, but I can see why it's there. In a way, I don't really like the fact that Sys has control over which threads are kept, but he does seem to be pretty fair about it, so I've got no real complaints.

I also think ohramona is a decent moderator, if maybe she's a little too lenient. What do I know, though? Rile her, and she might turn into a total hard-arse!

Having said all that, though, I can't honestly believe you're serious. And hey, Stu, just leave it with the DiamondDogz issue! He's behaving fine, and contributing more to the boards than you currently are. (And, just to avoid confusion here, I think you were probably joking too...)

later,
Chris...

I seem that which I am;
And therefore do I ask of thee, if thou
Wouldst be immortal?



pablopicasso
(stardust savant)
10/20/04 06:32 AM
Re: Long live Big Brother new [re: Arlequino]  

In reply to:


Ok, so, somtimes Sys's 'this is in the wrong forum' can get a bit irksome, but neither I, nor anybody else, wanted to read some newbie's 'how do I get an avatar?' in the News forum. That's just obviously silly - so it gets moved. Nice and easy.



Personally, I would move the offending post to the correct forum without mentioning the movement on the boards and PM the author and tell them their mistake, at the same time welcoming them to the boards and giving them a little run-down on the 'rules' or the forum.
This might have kept that particular member onsite, whereas I think she has given up on TW now.
Another new member lost.

Now, just let me finish

ohramonaModerator
(stardust savant)
10/20/04 06:42 AM
Crew slut new [re: power2charm]  

In reply to:

I think it is wrong for a moderator to explicity state they do not like this or that poster.


And why should moderators be held to such lofty standards? Our opinions are every bit as valid as those of you non-moderating posters (NMPs). Some of ya'll are just oxygen and font hogging wankers. I'd love to put forth a whole list of posters who suck up my precious O2 and assault my bleary eyes with their shite, but I don't do that--not because I'm a yank and not because I nurture--but because I'm old and a mama, and I have to model a semblance of mature behavior for my babes. I, and I believe this holds true for the mod boys, too, have never let our personal opinions impact the formal treatment of a poster.

By the way, you misspelled 'explicitly'.

In reply to:

ohramona, who makes the lowliest pond scum of posters feel welcome and loved.


Pah! That is not the purpose of a moderator! That trite task should fall to one whose title is something much more inane. Something like, oh ... say ... like a Ms TW or something?

In reply to:

Tati is never here


Yeah, so much for that strategic plan, eh?

In short p2c, how dare you try to divest me of my mod boys? If I had no mod boys, I'd have no boys at all! And oh how I have had those mod boys! The shenanigans that go on in the mod fora when NMPs are up here innocently eating their Wheaties! Oh the days I have spent crumbling cookies across TW with EJ! And the days, well one afternoon anyway, spent doing with Sysiyo what I'm sure he fervently hopes never sees the light above the mod fora. And I know Adam is not included in your proposed scourge of male mods*cough*suck up*cough*, but it would be remiss of me to not mention the full week he spent obsessing over the exact shade of pink for my moniker. (Thank you, Adam. Revlon has agreed to name a shade of nail lacquer *ohramona mauve*, and they ensure me that by the time you make it to the deep south of the US of A for a visit, a prototype will be ready for our pedicure party.)

So no way, Mr. TW! An imperfect assemblage though we may appear, every function has a bit of 'dys' in it, so butt out!

In reply to:

KEITH: It's only OhRomana who I dislike.


My esteem has suffered an irreparable blow. Truly.



~ ~ ~ Life I love you, all is groovy.~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

EJSundayModerator
(acolyte)
10/20/04 07:36 AM
Re: The Euro Mods are even worse [re: power2charm]  

In reply to:

They may be fantastic human beings


No they aren't, at least one of them whom I know personally. A true wanker, if I dare say so.

And I want to believe
In the madness that calls 'now'


Starlite
(stardust savant)
10/20/04 08:58 AM
Re: Crew slut new [re: ohramona]  

In reply to:

And why should moderators be held to such lofty standards? Our opinions are every bit as valid as those of you non-moderating posters (NMPs).


Agreed. What, they become mods and they aren't allowed to be human anymore? I don't know about you, but I'm not for losing some of our oldest posters just in order to gain several generic mod-bots.

I think as long as they don't let their dislike of a poster lead to an abuse of their mod powers (locking/deleting/editing his or her posts without due provocation, etc), it's perfectly fine to voice an opinion.

"I love Let's Dance! I love every track on it! I love China Girl!"
--Wraith2


guitarwolf
(mortal with potential)
10/20/04 11:30 AM
Re: The Euro Mods are watching you new [re: power2charm]  

I hardly ever post though I've been reasding this board for maybe 4 years now, but I must say that the mods here are sometimes quite childish and take their duties far too seriously.



SysiyoModerator
(thunder ocean)
10/20/04 12:40 PM
Objection! new [re: power2charm]  

In reply to:

Third, I blame Sysiyo for the three month expiry in Artistes forum. I think he was for it just so he could decide which threads to keep and which to let die, the power hungry yetti.


Like I have explicitly stated several times before, the auto-expiry of I Was An Artiste was not my idea. I can understand why the confusion is so easy to make, as the auto-expiry came into effect at the same time when I assumed the moderator duties for that forum. However, the idea was originally Adam's, and I opposed it (still do).

So, you see, instead of letting my personal opinions guide me and say 'oh this auto-expiry sucks big time, thanks so much Adam! ' on every thread in Artiste, I try to maintain a professional approach to the issue and make it clear to people where we stand.

Secondly, I keep thread in artiste if someone asks for a thread to be kept. I have not kept a single thread because I wished it to be kept, and I have not refused a single request for keeping a thread.

Thirdly, I point out that a thread is in the wrong forum publicly for three reasons: (1) it makes it clear to the user making the error that s/he shouldn't do it, (2) I feel it's better the error is pointed out by a mod, not by a 'normal user' (and quite a few people would point it out), and (3) it also works as a pointer to Adam that he should move the thread. Like mentioned on one of the threads I moved from News to Collector's Corner, each moderator has only the power to move threads between forums s/he moderates. Hence I can only move threads between News, Collectors and Artiste, EJ can only move threads between News and V&Q, etc etc. If people feel so strongly about this issue, I can start using PMs to inform the poster and the mod needed about the thread needing relocation. However, let me assure you I find pointing out the placement of a thread in the wrong forum in no way amusing.

KArt | Project Michelangelo | LiveJournal

EJSundayModerator
(acolyte)
10/20/04 12:50 PM
All The Modmen new [re: guitarwolf]  

Well, as people start to take this seriously just a quick serious word from me:

What are the duties of the moderators?

Well, my own philosophy is that I put my efforts into keeping the interaction on this board alive. I try to come up with threads that make others reply, and reply myself to posts and threats I find interesting. Furthermore and as important I try to stay away from threads that I find uninteresting and to avoid posting my dislike for the subject matter.

Spreading insults is normally not part of my personality while contradiction certainly is. When Adam asked me if I wanted to become a moderator here I replied that I am not a moderate person and would actually like to take part in heavy discussions here, just as I was doing as a non-mod. Adam's reply was that it is important for a moderator to not change personality by the job and that I must stay as I am. I happily oblidged. And when somebody claims that I insulted other TWers as a moderator I actually do not believe that. Fights? yes. Insults? Not really (with maybe the exception of dd74, I am not sure), at least I am not aware of it.

The next thing I find important is to keep an eye on dangerous content here. This is a tricky thing as some find funny what others find disgusting or perfectly legal. Racism and pornography must be kept away as well as illegal offerings of music or sometimes content from other web sites. As I would like to keep this side open to as many people as possible of all kinds and ages some things have to be stopped. But still I believe that TW has very wide limits to all this and actually there has very little been removed here in recent times.

Sometimes fairly important (for this site) and unpleasant decisions have to be made by the moderators. The latest dd74 case was one of those and to be honest: I still cannot understand that people here claim that what we did was wrong. Some still complain that he was banned at all, others that he wasn't banned for good. That we offered and implemented a compromise that respected the different arguments from all sides seems to be a move that is beyond some people's grasp it seems. Neither side held the full truth but still 'Either my way or non' was what some wanted. And that's exactly what the moderators did not want though it would have been easy for them to do it, to have it all their way. In fact they are the only ones here who can have that. But they don't do it. In full contrast to those who claim that moderating powers are misused. They are not, not the slightest, otherwise dd74 would have been long gone without a return.

And from the reaction in the current dd74 thread I gather that many TWers have acknowledged that. And so has dd74 himself.

I tell you what: I am thoroughly happy with how that story has turned out so far. And furthermore I am a little proud of the mods and all those who collaborated in this difficult attempt to save a good part of TW's soul.

And I want to believe
In the madness that calls 'now'


Marquis
(acolyte)
10/20/04 01:01 PM
Banned in D.C. new [re: hangontoyourself]  

In reply to:

It's only OhRomana who I dislike.




Let me say that again:

I don't know what TW you've been reading, but I think there's ample proof in this thread alone that ohro is not merely queen of the mods, but overall probably the finest poster around .

Other than me, that is.

Whereas you, mon ami, continue to suck the proverbial tailpipe of respectability.

As for Mr. TW's issues, I can't say that anyone's moderating has personally affected me, at least not that I've noticed. I'd say that's indicative of good work.

Whatever doesn't kill you can only get you higher

power2charm
(stardust savant)
10/20/04 02:08 PM
This is a trick question, EJ: Do you like me? new [re: EJSunday]  

In reply to:

What are the duties of the moderators?


Glad you asked, EJ. You and the others were appointed after Adam decided he could not handle looking for and removing nakey pics posted by CLAUDE and others during periods where mash-ups and real life took him away from the boards.

You are here to remove pornography - that's it! For our purposes, pornography are any pictures that include muff or wiener. Boobies are okay.

You are not our Socialist Architect. We don't need you to promote interaction amongst us or adjudicate our squabbles.

You may recommend Adam or Evan ban somebody if they have posted death threats or behaved in a persistently malicious way towards individual posters or against the boards in general. Being a clueless oaf with nothing interesting to say is not grounds for banning.

In spite of your perception of Adam's admonition to continue posting as you otherwise would, you do *not* have that right anymore in the arena of posting your negative opinions of posters over which you moderate. It is oppressive for members to be told by moderators who have the power to delete their posts or restrict their access to the boards that they aren't to the mods' liking. With power comes responsibility, SuperEuro.

You banned ddz74 temporarily because you received threats from posters that you like that they would leave if dogz, whom you have stated you do *not* like, was not banned.

So you banned who you didn't like to keep on board those you do. That is Hall of Shame Moderating right there: I award the Blue Ribbon Prize to the TW Mods for letting the inmates run the prison.

I'm gonna put it in a dictum for you: DON'T BAN POSTERS JUST BECAUSE YOU OR OTHERS DON'T LIKE THEM.

In the future refer all complaints upwards to Evan where they will be promptly ignored.

Sysiyo, henceforth kindly save all my Artistes threads and all the threads in that forum I've posted to.

Pablo's advice for dealing with mis-filed threads is discrete and MODERATE. I knew I liked Pablo for some reason.

"Once in Germany someone said 'nein'!" ~ Jeff Tweedy


pablopicasso
(stardust savant)
10/20/04 02:09 PM
Re: All The Modmen new [re: EJSunday]  

In all seriousness I think the moderators do a good job, I did have issues around the DD74 affair with Sysiyo, which I resolved in Pm's mainly as I have tried not to get into arguments on the board in recent times as it just belittles the board and are better suited to PM's. Get into an argument on here and you can find it gets out of control very easy.

The one thing on the boards that do annoy me are when posters do post illicit material, sometimes it can take too long for these pictures to be deleted, of course what goes on in PM's we aren't privvy to, I would like to think these people are seriously warned that their conduct will not be tolerated.
Regarding DD74 it is good to see so many of his detractors, who were so vocal about him when he was being over prolific have now publicly stated how much he has improved and even adds thoughtful discussion to the boards. Stu, it is a shame you cannot at least admit that he has improved.

Regarding Tati Wi, I think I have seen her online once in the last year, with Adam spending a lot less time on the boards now, shouldn't she be replaced or at least another moderator taken onboard?

Now, just let me finish

EJSundayModerator
(acolyte)
10/20/04 02:47 PM
This is a simple question: What are you on about? new [re: power2charm]  

I am not quite sure if you are serious and I even less understand where your hard feelings towards me come from.

Anyway,

In reply to:

We don't need you to promote interaction amongst us or adjudicate our squabbles.


Where have I done that and where have I claimed to be doing that?

In reply to:

Being a clueless oaf with nothing interesting to say is not grounds for banning.


My words, more or less, in all the discussion about dd74. Openly here and privately in PMs with other TWers and moderators. And as long as I have been here noone was banned for posting rubbish, as far as I know.

In reply to:

you do *not* have that right anymore in the arena of posting your negative opinions of posters over which you moderate.


I don't see this as moderating 'over' people.

In reply to:

It is oppressive for members to be told by moderators who have the power to delete their posts or restrict their access to the boards that they aren't to the mods' liking.


I have never threatened to ban anybody or deleted anybodies post (apart from doubled posts that is). Where do you get that idea from?

In reply to:

With power comes responsibility


That's exactly what I try to exercise and that is exactly why this dd74 thing took so long to make a decision.

In reply to:

You banned ddz74 temporarily because you received threats from posters that you like that they would leave if dogz, whom you have stated you do *not* like, was not banned.


Interesting. How would you know? I got zero numbers of posts like that. I got loads of posts about dd74 but nil included anything like that. Furthermore I did not ban dd74 as the decision was made by more people than just me.

In reply to:

So you banned who you didn't like to keep on board those you do.


Even if I didn't 'like' dd74 not liking him wasn't the reason for banning and would never have been accepted by the Oz-US-mods anyway. See the reasons for banning in the relevant threads.

In reply to:

DON'T BAN POSTERS JUST BECAUSE YOU OR OTHERS DON'T LIKE THEM.


Noone has done that and it is quite irritating to see you coming up with all those false allegations.

Wouldn't have expected that. The more not from you.

And I want to believe
In the madness that calls 'now'


SysiyoModerator
(thunder ocean)
10/20/04 03:13 PM
Re: This is a trick question, EJ: Do you like me? new [re: power2charm]  

A lot of time would be saved if you actually read the threads to which you're referring to, p2c. But here we go once again:

In reply to:

You banned ddz74 temporarily because you received threats from posters that you like that they would leave if dogz, whom you have stated you do *not* like, was not banned.


No, as I said before, we banned him temporarily because that was the rule which Evan had set for us.

In reply to:

Sysiyo, henceforth kindly save all my Artistes threads and all the threads in that forum I've posted to.


Are they valuable material that really needs to be saved? For this issue (as well as other things you have said about the Artiste forum and the auto-expiry system), please refer to the Artiste FAQ before making false accusations.

As a final word, if you are not satisfied with the way I have carried out my duties, feel free to contact Adam about the matter. If he wishes me to step down from my position as a mod, I shall gladly do it.

KArt | Project Michelangelo | LiveJournal

Wraith2
(stardust savant)
10/20/04 03:21 PM
You're the guy gettin' his Jimmies whacked new [re: hangontoyourself]  



In reply to:

It's only OhRomana who I dislike.


Step, motherfucker, I dare you.

We're all presidents, we're all congressmen, we're all cops

pianocraft
(cracked actor)
10/20/04 05:51 PM
Re: The Euro Mods are watching you new [re: power2charm]  

In reply to:

But we live in fear that we will run awry of one of the two Euros, that they will find us lacking and start badgering us and drumming up ill will in the lead-up to a possible banning.


I think this is an incisive and accurate comment. Recently, Sysio called me an insulting name, "painocraft," and labeled me a "flamebaiter" on the message board. When I called him out on it, he edited the insulting name only.

It is devastating to be insulted and labelled by one with the power to silence your views and remove you. I wonder if this moderator was beginning a campaign to get me banned.

Edited by pianocraft on 10/20/04 06:27 PM (server time).



ohramonaModerator
(stardust savant)
10/20/04 08:55 PM
TWiff new [re: power2charm]  

In reply to:

pablopicasso: I would move the offending post to the correct forum without mentioning the movement on the boards and PM the author and tell them their mistake



That's a completely reasonable response, and one I've meant to employ on the sparse occasions I've moved threads. Now that my Adderall script has been renewed, perhaps I'll actually be organized and thoughtful enough to follow through.


In reply to:

Marquis and Wraith2



Wow. You guys make me feel all girly and protected. How sweet. Marquis, it's mutual admiration (and send me some of whatever you're smoking, must be mighty potent!) Wraith2, there might be a little something extra in the toe of your stocking this xmas. Look hard!

In reply to:

p2c:
What are the duties of the moderators?



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Glad you asked, EJ. You and the others were appointed after Adam blah blah blah You are here to blah blah blah You are not our Socialist blah You may recommend Adam or Evan ban somebody if and some more blah blah blah



Yeah? Because you say so? Funny, 'cause neither Adam nor Evan delineated any such pompous doo doo protocol in the grueling interview process preceding my invitation to become mod. Are you saying you intercepted my Moderator's Manual before I got a chance to peruse?

When concerns are brought to the attention of the mods by NMPs, we usually brainstorm. Sometimes Adam contributes, and sometimes he doesn't. EJ, Sys and I have sought Adam's counsel on matters, 'cause we kinda picture him as a Yoda, and as far as I can recollect, he has trusted our judgment, and put final decisions in our hands. You should too.



In reply to:

you do *not* have that right anymore in the arena of posting your negative opinions of posters over which you moderate.



So I should sit here, allowing hangdogten to state that he doesn't like me, but not be able to say that--in my opinion--Stu is the most bloated sac of flatulence that this board has ever seen? And you should be allowed to announce to the TW community that poorsoul's posts make the enamel peel off your teeth, but the mod boys and I should sit here stoically and pretend we have no opinions? Bullshit p2c! The speech and the opinions of the mods will be no more restricted than yours!

And while on the topic, I'm glad hangdogten doesn't like me and feels free to say so, but I have to be allowed the same freedoms! The only good piece of advice I ever got from a parent was from my dad (RIP) who told me once "If everyone liked you, there'd be something wrong with you." Becoming a mod was not the result of a popularity contest. We all already know the result of the TW popularity contest, don't we.

And the mods cannot--nor can they reasonably be expected to attempt to--make everybody happy. Regarding the temporary ban of ddz74, some thought it was too harsh (I hear partially responsible for the departure of Dara ), and some are totally miffed he was even allowed back (I hear the flaccid cheek flapping of somebody whose name I won't mention.) I guess most of the others' opinions lie somewhere in between. I agree with EJ that the resolution was adequate.

In reply to:

You banned ddz74 temporarily because you received threats from posters that you like that they would leave if dogz, whom you have stated you do *not* like, was not banned.

So you banned who you didn't like to keep on board those you do. That is Hall of Shame Moderating right there: I award the Blue Ribbon Prize to the TW Mods for letting the inmates run the prison.



You are so off the mark it's ludicrous! My keyboard sputters in attempt to address this. Just let me say, if each of the three mods (minus Tati for not being here, and minus Adam for actually being *Administrator) banned everybody each one doesn't like, SPF would probably be here solo.

In reply to:

I'm gonna put it in a dictum for you: DON'T BAN POSTERS JUST BECAUSE YOU OR OTHERS DON'T LIKE THEM.



Sorry, Mr. TW. Your title allows you the crown and the bouquet only. Your stompy foot little temper tantrum is in vain. Just smile and practice that regal wave, will ya?

In reply to:

We don't need you to promote interaction amongst us or adjudicate our squabbles.



Do you hear that Persilot? According to Mr. TW, my moderating "power" is not within the scope to address the issue you brought to my attention this morning. Same for you, Arlequino. Evidently, I can remove certain nakey pictures, and that's it.

Sorry.

Heh. And to think I was about to change my sig!


~ ~ ~ Life I love you, all is groovy.~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

96dbFreak
(acolyte)
10/20/04 09:16 PM
Re: Long live Big Brother new [re: Arlequino]  

In reply to:

(And, just to avoid confusion here, I think you were probably joking too...)


No! You think?

Stu
Get Bowie Back Downunder
The GBBD 2005 campaign starts here!


schizophrenic
(cracked actor)
10/20/04 09:20 PM
Re: The Euro Mods are watching you new [re: power2charm]  

That's it. Time for a new "Mr. TW" competition.

Yes I can.

Beltene
(crash course raver)
10/21/04 00:22 AM
Re: TWiff new [re: ohramona]  

Why did you delete my "Can vaginal walls overpower a cock" thread?

I was simply sharing some insightful information and personal experiences with the Kegel exercises.

Pallas Athena

Starlite
(stardust savant)
10/21/04 00:55 AM
Re: TWiff new [re: Beltene]  

In reply to:

Why did you delete my "Can vaginal walls overpower a cock" thread?


Oh, Beltene, Beltene, sweetie. TW is not the best place to ask questions like that. We all know that no-one here ever has sex.

But of course the answer is "yes."

Now male Kegels... those are a bit more of a mystery.

"I love Let's Dance! I love every track on it! I love China Girl!"
--Wraith2


ohramonaModerator
(stardust savant)
10/21/04 06:10 AM
Make mine a bagel new [re: Beltene]  

I thought it was as graphic as the spate of porn pictures (which I am sanctioned to remove) that were popping up at the time. Sorry if I erred in judgment on that one. It was close.



~ ~ ~ Life I love you, all is groovy.~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Arlequino
(crash course raver)
10/21/04 06:51 AM
Re: Long live Big Brother new [re: 96dbFreak]  

Ohramona - nicely put. You too, EJ. And Sysiyo too. I really haven't seen any moderator do a bad job, and I don't really see where this complaint came from. It's a shame the banning issues may have had an impact upon Dara's leaving, but as a move to try and please everyone on the board was impossible, it seems the action taken was the fairest and most effective course of action.

Edit - I ought to explain the seemingly pointless sycophancy of this post. I was initially going to use it to reply to Stu, but felt I ought to just say that I agreed with what all the mods have said about their duties. But then, I decided replying to Stu was best left to PMs, hence the really sucky post that's left here!

later,
Chris...

I seem that which I am;
And therefore do I ask of thee, if thou
Wouldst be immortal?

Edited by Arlequino on 10/21/04 07:01 AM (server time).



pablopicasso
(stardust savant)
10/21/04 08:11 AM
AEOS new [re: Arlequino]  

Although probably the whole DD74 banning issue might have been an issue, from what I can make out it was more to do with the air of negativity which pervaded this board a few months ago which led to Dara deciding there were more important things in life to concentrate ones energies on. I think to a degree that air of negativity has lifted lately.
Rather than concentrating on things we like or are enthusiastic about it all seemed to be about what we disliked, what annoyed us, who annoyed us and the dreaded THBDB curse that was uttered to newbies on arrival.
I think after the terrific amount of activity in the last two years and the subsequent quiet patch due to the early demise of the Reality tour, where once this board was a hotbed of gossip, facts and figures suddenly it felt like the brakes were put on, and rather forcefully too. Things have improved and are still improving. I note elsewhere that Adam is aware of the 'bouncing email' problem with registration. I is a shame that the whole registration process couldn't be simplified as it is very long winded on this site compared to others. We need new blood, if only to satisfy Monkeyboy and Pianocraft for differing reasons.

Regarding the issue,again, of posting in the wrong forum, couldn't there be a locked and pinned post put up in each fora stating the nature of the forum and what can and cannot be inserted? Wouldn't take much effort and might solve some problems.

Now, just let me finish

SysiyoModerator
(thunder ocean)
10/21/04 12:06 PM
Re: The Euro Mods are watching you new [re: power2charm]  

In reply to:

Recently, Sysio called me an insulting name, "painocraft," and labeled me a "flamebaiter" on the message board. When I called him out on it, he edited the insulting name only.


Painocraft was a writing error on my part, I edited it before you had made your reply as I did not wish to miss-spell anyone's name. (I'd also appriciate it if you didn't miss-spell mine). However, as an individual poster I felt you were flamebaiting. It was also, to some degree, a joke (though I know I shouldn't try to make jokes). In any case, I did not say what I said in the function of a moderator, only as a poster. It was, if you may, my personal opinion. And unlike p2c seems to think, I do not allow my personal opinions on indivual posters to affect my judgement as a moderator.

In reply to:

Regarding the issue,again, of posting in the wrong forum, couldn't there be a locked and pinned post put up in each fora stating the nature of the forum and what can and cannot be inserted? Wouldn't take much effort and might solve some problems.


The idea isn't bad, but I know from experience people tend not to read such 'guidance posts' (I always skip them ). Also, there is an explanation of each forum's funtion (IMO quite clear ones) on the Main Index.

KArt | Project Michelangelo | LiveJournal

Monkeyboy
(stardust savant)
10/21/04 01:12 PM
Re: The Euro Mods are watching you new [re: Sysiyo]  

In reply to:

In any case, I did not say what I said in the function of a moderator, only as a poster.


Isn't that the problem, though? That we don't know the difference? I think it would be best for everyone - including the moderators - to have a separate screen name to distinguish the difference. Maybe even make it so that your "moderator" names have no way of being connected to your well-known screeen names. All I know is that if I were a moderator I would want such a thing. We all have too much history here to be seen as truly objective, even if we are.

For good or for awesome

SysiyoModerator
(thunder ocean)
10/21/04 01:18 PM
Re: The Euro Mods are watching you new [re: Monkeyboy]  

If I'm saying something as a moderator, I won't insult anyone.

KArt | Project Michelangelo | LiveJournal

twister
(acolyte)
10/21/04 01:49 PM
Not that I'm getting involved or nuthin' new [re: Sysiyo]  

In reply to:

I did not say what I said in the function of a moderator, only as a poster. [...] If I'm saying something as a moderator, I won't insult anyone.


Well, that's about the crux of it, isn't it? What about on this thread when - without provocation - you broke out the following phrases:

-I feel discouraged that ddz has returned. I enjoyed TW more during his absence than during the entire previous year. However, rules are rules and we had to let him back. [Claude is] far less annoying then ddz. What I'd really like to know is what ddz did while he was away? Stared at a black screen for days at end?

-Unfortunately we are bound by the rules [to let dd74 return] set for us by Evan. (Note derogatory use of "unfortunately").

-The more pissed we get him, the better reason we have to ban him again.

-[I, Sysiyo] would have banned diamondarse a year ago, if it wasn't for rules and TW's democratic tradition.

You'll see there, Sysiyo, you're being openly hostile while blatantly wearing your moderator's hat. Especially considering you're doing so to an individual who you have already banned once (albeit as a committee) then I think this clearly constitutes throwing your weight around and bullying. Doesn't it?

I could be a genius if I just put my mind to it.

EJSundayModerator
(acolyte)
10/21/04 01:50 PM
Re: The Euro Mods are watching you new [re: Monkeyboy]  

In reply to:

I think it would be best for everyone - including the moderators - to have a separate screen name to distinguish the difference.


Can I borrow one of yours then?

And I want to believe
In the madness that calls 'now'


Monkeyboy
(stardust savant)
10/21/04 01:53 PM
Re: The Euro Mods are watching you new [re: Sysiyo]  

In reply to:

If I'm saying something as a moderator, I won't insult anyone.


I understand where you're going with this but you also have to understand that in some people's eyes you are always saying something "as a moderator" because, well, you are one. I think p2c is bringing up some valid concerns. Not to say that he is absolutely right, but maybe a way to keep such suspicions from being created would be worthwhile for everyone involved.

I can understand your distinction between saying something "as a moderator" or not. As a purveyor of some of the most racist humor on the boards, I often have to draw a distinction between joke posts and serious ones. In the end, though, I've come to terms with the fact that a lot of people probably think I'm some right wing extemist because I know that there are even more people who "get it". As a moderator, though, you are supposed to be an impartial representative of the website and you don't have the liberty of simply hoping people "get it". Again, I'm not saying that you are wrong in posting the way you do, I just think that there should be no question as to what capacity you (and every other mod) is posting in. No matter how impartial you truly are, there will always be vast room for doubt so long as you are posting your personal opinions under the same name.

And though I do feel that the "EuroMods" have a tendency to come off as somewhat more anal, I have yet to have any significant problem with it. I do think that the banning of Ddgz was uncalled for but I'm not ambitious enough to look at the exact reasons why it happened. So as much as I would like to join p2c in a bitchtopia, I just can't.

But that doesn't mean that something can't be made more user friendly.

For good or for awesome

Monkeyboy
(stardust savant)
10/21/04 01:55 PM
Re: The Euro Mods are watching you new [re: EJSunday]  

In reply to:

Can I borrow one of yours then?


There is that one that I'm getting tired of. He's a fucker. But none of them could ever be seen as impartial. Though there are a couple that have yet to be fully "character developed."

For good or for awesome

Monkeyboy
(stardust savant)
10/21/04 02:00 PM
"Democratic tradition" new [re: power2charm]  


Having read a few of the posts from all sides of the argument, do you think that p2c is bringing up a serious issue that should be addressed in a significant way?
Yes
No
I don't know

View the results for this poll


For good or for awesome

SysiyoModerator
(thunder ocean)
10/21/04 02:01 PM
Re: Not that I'm getting involved or nuthin' new [re: twister]  

My initial thought was to give you a line-by-line explanation of what exactly I said, but thought better of it. I admit that those comments were very much borderline on my part, it is unclear if I'm talking in the function of a user or a mod, and I probably shouldn't have said the things I said. Especially as DDZ has behaved very well after his return.

But as noted before, we (the moderators) did follow the rules and let him back. If I (or we) had done like p2c claims I do, DDZ would have never been allowed back.

In any case I admit that my behaviour was incorrect for a moderator. I will try to moderate my own behaviour in future cases like this.

KArt | Project Michelangelo | LiveJournal

EJSundayModerator
(acolyte)
10/21/04 02:24 PM
Re: "Democratic tradition" new [re: Monkeyboy]  

I voted No, obviously, as there never has been a "post what I like or I'll ban you" policy here. This is simply proven by the fact that noone has been banned for such a reason. False claims don't bring this to life.

And I want to believe
In the madness that calls 'now'


Monkeyboy
(stardust savant)
10/21/04 02:28 PM
Re: "Democratic tradition" new [re: EJSunday]  

I think I should have clarified that perhaps there is a bigger issue, in the abstract, that is brought up by the original post. Or maybe there isn't. I'm only getting involved because, since I really don't care, I feel that I can stay fairly objective in this.

For good or for awesome

power2charm
(stardust savant)
10/21/04 02:46 PM
EJ goes to the polls *camera bulb flash* new [re: EJSunday]  

In reply to:

I voted No, obviously, as there never has been a "post what I like or I'll ban you" policy here. This is simply proven by the fact that noone has been banned for such a reason.


Though your one-liner description of my stance is inaccurate (my charge is that you also bowed to pressure from other users annoyed by dogz volume and quality of posts), I would be curious to hear your similarly succinct description of the exact policy you *did* invoke to qualify ddz74 for his banning.

See if you can refrain from passing the buck to Evan as Sysiyo attempted to do. If you went whinging to him to make a decision it is only further evidence you are not competent to hold your positions as moderators.

"Once in Germany someone said 'nein'!" ~ Jeff Tweedy


EJSundayModerator
(acolyte)
10/21/04 02:50 PM
Say No More new [re: Monkeyboy]  

Well, the big issue is that Mods can make people here post only things the mods like by enforcing pressure on the posters. I'd love to learn how to do that next time NoControl is around.

The other thing is that Mods shouldn't insult other TWers. Fully agreed and never done by me, that is apart from once saying that I did not ***like*** dd74. Hm, pretty nasty insult indeed and way worse than the usual banter here. I apologise.

Did I already mention that I like dd74 now? I think I did in some other thread. Is that a breach of the moderator's codex as well? I mean this is tricky as those who I don't praise may live in fear now that the almighty EJ does not like them enough, so that they now feel the pressure to post endearing things in order to not risk a ban.

A bigger issue indeed, now that it is unfolding before me.

And I want to believe
In the madness that calls 'now'


pablopicasso
(stardust savant)
10/21/04 02:59 PM
Re: Say No More new [re: EJSunday]  

In reply to:

I mean this is tricky as those who I don't praise may live in fear now that the almighty EJ does not like them enough, so that they now feel the pressure to post endearing things in order to not risk a ban.


May I just say that I think you are a fabulous moderator EJ?




Now, just let me finish

EJSundayModerator
(acolyte)
10/21/04 03:08 PM
I am behind the camera new [re: power2charm]  

In reply to:

I would be curious to hear your similarly succinct description of the exact policy you *did* invoke to qualify ddz74 for his banning.


This is slightly more difficult to explain in a succinct (nice word, had to look it up though) way but the core motivation for my support of the ban was that dd74 destroyed nearly all interaction and exchange on this board. I think I have made that clear in all those lengthy threads and discussions before and please spare me the repetition of all the details.

Now please answer this succinctly:
Why do you think I bowed to pressure from others?

Are you confusing listening to what other people have to say with being whimpish?

p2c: "If you went whinging to him to make a decision ..." Why should I have done that?

Who was insulted by me?

Who did I threaten with a ban because I did not like what he/she was posting?

Why do you turn your doubts about the correctness (which you are as entitled to as anybody else here) into simple allegations formulated like facts?

And I want to believe
In the madness that calls 'now'


Strawman
(stardust savant)
10/21/04 03:28 PM
Re: I am behind the camera new [re: EJSunday]  

In reply to:

Why do you turn your doubts about the correctness (which you are as entitled to as anybody else here) into simple allegations formulated like facts?


It's the lawyer in him.

Anyway, his TW crown is in real jeopardy here.


In this world second thoughts, it seems, are best.

pianocraft
(cracked actor)
10/21/04 03:56 PM
Re: The Euro Mods are watching you new [re: Sysiyo]  

In reply to:

Painocraft was a writing error on my part


I'm sorry I accused you of name-calling.

In reply to:

However, as an individual poster I felt you were flamebaiting.



No, I wouldn't do that.



SysiyoModerator
(thunder ocean)
10/21/04 04:08 PM
Re: The Euro Mods are watching you new [re: pianocraft]  

In reply to:

I'm sorry I accused you of name-calling.


I'm glad that got sorted out.

KArt | Project Michelangelo | LiveJournal

96dbFreak
(acolyte)
10/21/04 07:14 PM
Re: Long live Big Brother new [re: Arlequino]  

In reply to:

I don't really see where this complaint came from.


That's because you wouldn't recognise a joke if it walked up, introduced itself and stuck a pin in you.

In reply to:

I was initially going to use it to reply to Stu, but felt I ought to just say that I agreed with what all the mods have said about their duties. But then, I decided replying to Stu was best left to PMs, hence the really sucky post that's left here!


Believe me, the PM sucked the big one as well.

Chris (scary name coincidence, BTW, with your pal Twisty), I thought it was very strange that you were British and yet completely lacked any semblance of a sense of humour (almost as if you were an American or a German). Then I checked your profile and discovered that you were a southerner. Nuff said.

Stu
Get Bowie Back Downunder
The GBBD 2005 campaign starts here!


Marquis
(acolyte)
10/21/04 08:05 PM
Stu's Standup: Tonight @ the Chuckleteria! new [re: 96dbFreak]  

In reply to:

That's because you wouldn't recognise a joke if it walked up, introduced itself and stuck a pin in you.


Allow me to step in here, for the good of Arlequino and the rest of TW, with a helpful little observation that helps me keep my dossier straight, so to speak:

When Stu says something that isn't funny, he's joking.

When Stuf says something that is funny . . . wait, shit.

I thought I had this thought out.

Cotton cotton candy Cotton cotton candy-yah
Spun anyway you like


96dbFreak
(acolyte)
10/21/04 08:13 PM
Re: Stu's Standup: Tonight @ the Chuckleteria! new [re: Marquis]  

In reply to:

I thought I had this thought out.


Just goes to show how wrong you can be.

Are you suggesting that you believe that p2c was being 100% serious with the initial post in this thread?

Stu
Get Bowie Back Downunder
The GBBD 2005 campaign starts here!


Marquis
(acolyte)
10/21/04 09:16 PM
Tofu Battle new [re: 96dbFreak]  

In reply to:

Just goes to show how wrong you can be.


Quite true. We can't all be as perfect as you.

In reply to:

Are you suggesting that you believe that p2c was being 100% serious with the initial post in this thread?


I'm not sure what this has to do with what I said - merely a dumb American-style joke; I have no idea what your feud with Arlequino is about - but I took it about as seriously as I take most p2c posts, which is somewhere between tonyinsf and pianocraft.

Cotton cotton candy Cotton cotton candy-yah
Spun anyway you like


power2charm
(stardust savant)
10/21/04 09:26 PM
EJ, please stand still for your mug shot new [re: EJSunday]  

In reply to:

the core motivation for my support of the ban was that dd74 destroyed nearly all interaction and exchange on this board.


Good. That is what I expected your answer to be because it is consistent with the post you made when it was announced by some other individual that dogz had been banned.

And my response, and I think this will be the last time I state it b/c I'm repeating here, is that it's not appropriate for you to make that judgement call. And it is a judgement call, not the least bit quantifiable, that dogz "destroyed interaction." I bozoed him and afterwards I hardly knew or cared whether he improved or declined in his inanity. That's why the bozo is there, as you well know.

Your decision went against the standing approach by Evan and Adam, who only banned posters when the poster's intent was malicious and their posts threatening or persistently vile. That was the TW way, and you changed it because you wanted to "save TW's soul."

Here are some observations which can be gleaned from the mods' posts on the banning:

1. Sysiyo publicly lobbied to have dogz banned;
2. Ohro appeared to tire of either dogz himself or the controversy he aroused;
3. By his comments EJ was not a fan of dogz but appeared to have a live-and-let-live attitude about him. As with ohro, it appears the controversy annoyed him more than the actual poster;
4. After being given a posting limit (which is an offensive action, imo), dogz was banned for breaking that limit by fewer than five posts on two or three days in close proximity. His daily posts on those days never exceeded one dozen, but the limit was eight. Therefore, he broke the letter of the law, but arguably not the spirit. Ohro announced the limit publicly; and
5. Many longtime, quality posters - whom must be considered part of the population EJ claims were inhibited from having quality interactions - never indicated the least interest in seeing dogz banned. Those posters include:

dice
pianocraft
thomaswood
Anisette
Dara
JonnyManic
NoGame
Beltene
Tin

and many others.

When I think back over the posters who have caused an uproar since I joined TW on a nearly-daily basis in August of 2000, dogz was the least offensive. Yes he was annoying because his posts were oddly punctuated and showed a mediocre mind hard at work, but he was never malicious, the way TJ Newton was, for instance.

The difference between TJ and dogz is that we enjoyed hating TJ (not me, I bozoed him, too), but dogz never really got the blood boiling. He was was just numbingly stupid and terribly prolific about it.

In answer to your other questions:

Why do I think you, EJ, bowed to pressure as regards dogz?
Your stated reason for banning him indicates it was the controversy, not his actual posts. Bolstered by Observation #3 above. You should concede the point. If everyone ignored him, he would not have been banned.

Do I confuse listening to others with being wimpish? No, because banning isn't a group decision. At least, it never used to be when Evan made the decision. Again, posters were who were banned intentionally sought to anger either the TW population at large or Evan specifically. Dogz had no malice of intent, and his posts were not the least offensive in the classic sense of the word.

Did you go whinging to Evan for permission to ban Dogz? I believe Sysiyo's comments on this thread suggest that very approach. Have I misunderstood him?

Who was insulted by you? I stated it is wrong for you to indicate your distaste for posters, not that you have "insulted" them. There is a difference. A poster would naturally assume he was not welcome on a board where the moderator told him as much. But TW isn't here for your sole amusement. Pablo, for instance, appeared to take some value from dogz. Is his amusement less important than yours? No, but dogz will naturally feel inhibited because you do have authority here that Pablo does not. Your negative statements carry more weight than if you were just another poster.

Who did you threaten with a ban because you did not like what he/she was posting? Dogz, obviously, but again, it is more precise to say that you gave in to the vocal group who became incensed with his presence here.

Why do I turn my doubts about the mods' decision into simple allegations formulated like facts? As you can see, I am with facts as a surgeon is with hir scapel.

*accepts roses and a kiss on the cheek from R/R as the audience cheers wildly, except for the dullard, schizophrenic, who is insanely jealous of my urbanity and charm*





"Once in Germany someone said 'nein'!" ~ Jeff Tweedy


Marquis
(acolyte)
10/21/04 10:08 PM
The sound of one bozo yapping new [re: power2charm]  

In reply to:

He was was just numbingly stupid and terribly prolific about it.


I think the quantity of dogz' posts was a larger faction in the ban than their quality. I mean, I am sure he carefully structured his flooding to make it mistakable for actual posting, but surely you can't deny that going from zero to acolyte in 6 months is indicative of a wicked case of logorrhea.

Whether or not dogz' posting habits constituted 'flooding' exactly is certainly debatable, but flooding itself is certainly a banning-worthy offense, and his pre-banned incarnation showed neither remorse for his clutter nor any sign that he was planning to heed the collective cry of TW to stem the flow of his mis-punctuated nonsense.

At any rate, the whole affair is in the past, so your diatribe seems a little untimely. Furthermore, I'm not sure how you can chastize EJ for acting based on his own opitions *and* berate him for listening to the council of his fellow posters.

Finally, because I really ought to get back to cleaning my sections, I will submit for your consideration that it is precisely because you had dogz bozoed that you may not have a full appreciation for his (alleged) transgressions. Even I stopped caring one way or another once I put him on the list. However, if the inhabitants of my bozo filter were to start flooding Coffee Shop with dead baby photos, would their behavior be any less ban-able because I, personally, was able to ignore it?

Cotton cotton candy Cotton cotton candy-yah
Spun anyway you like


96dbFreak
(acolyte)
10/21/04 10:24 PM
Iron Chef new [re: Marquis]  

In reply to:

I'm not sure what this has to do with what I said


Well, if you go back to the beginning of this thread you'll see that the first post, and the primary subject of the thread, was p2c's assertion that the Euro mods were crap and should be replaced. Myself and others didn't take it too seriously and so we come to Arlequino's post where he says "I really haven't seen any moderator do a bad job, and I don't really see where this complaint came from.". I pointed out that his oft-demonstrated lack of a sense of humour is possibly the reason for his lack of comprehension. Then you piped up that my obviously hilarious retort wasn't funny, at which point I queried whether you were actually of the opinion that p2c was being deadly serious. And so here we are.

In reply to:

- merely a dumb American-style joke;


What was?

In reply to:

I have no idea what your feud with Arlequino is about


He keeps finger wagging. Telling me what I should think. Telling me what I should and shouldn't post. That really gets on my tits. It's the main problem that I've had with many a twat at this place. Most of you are just about smart enough to remember to keep breathing in an out and how to walk in a straight line, and you're giving me directions? Do me a fucking favour!

Maybe Starlite and her pals should invite him into the Quality Control collective?

Stu
Get Bowie Back Downunder
The GBBD 2005 campaign starts here!


Arlequino
(crash course raver)
10/22/04 06:42 AM
Re: Long live Big Brother new [re: 96dbFreak]  

Hey, Stu, humour is absolutely fine. I welcome it. It makes the place a little more interesting.

Just two minor points, though:

Firstly, while humour is fine, you seem to have an unhealthy obsession with directing your...erm...humourous remarks at ddz74. And, in the first place, on another thread your comments were not jokes, but serious remarks regarding your dislike for ddz. Why don't you just let that one lie now? It was funny when he was a true issue, and when he really was as irritating as you make him out to be. He isn't anymore, though, so why continue to make an issue of it?

Secondly, why not reply to me about this through pm? That's why I sent you one, and that's what they're there for.

In reply to:

Believe me, the PM sucked the big one as well.


It did, I agree. I'd only just woken up, and I wasn't functioning particularly well at the time...

In reply to:

Chris (scary name coincidence, BTW, with your pal Twisty)


Just because you don't like either of us, doesn't mean we're in cohorts! Or is there a deep-lying anti-Chris agenda rooted in your personality? Perhaps you'd like to see a therapist about that one?

In reply to:

Then I checked your profile and discovered that you were a southerner.


Southern dandy, and proud of it! At least we don't hang monkeys...!

later,
Chris...

I seem that which I am;
And therefore do I ask of thee, if thou
Wouldst be immortal?



Persilot
(cracked actor)
10/22/04 09:21 AM
Europe? new [re: power2charm]  

And I thought the days of battle between the Mods and the Rockers were over?

Think of it this way... the landlord at a pub near me has openly confessed he doesn't really like me, but he's still prepared to serve me. Of course I have to watch out for spit in my pint but I still drink there.

"There is lambs wool under my naked feet."

SysiyoModerator
(thunder ocean)
10/22/04 11:12 AM
Ah, I see. new [re: power2charm]  

In reply to:

Did you go whinging to Evan for permission to ban Dogz? I believe Sysiyo's comments on this thread suggest that very approach. Have I misunderstood him?


Yes, you have misunderstood me. We never communicated with Evan about the subject of Diamondogz. As I attempted to make clear in the original post, it's a rule for all bannings that the first time a user is banned, he or she is banned only temporarily. If s/he continues the same behaviour that got him/her originally banned upon being allowed to return to the boards, then the ban is made permanent.

Hence, DDZ was banned for two months. If he had upon his return continued the same style of posting, he would have been re-banned, permanently. The same would apply to any 'normal' user who behaved in a similar manner.

The exception to the above are trolls who contibute nothing to the boards. In a clear troll case (such as TumbleTwirl, who made a couple of dozen posts all containing the phase 'that's fantastic' and nothing else), the user in banned permanently right away.

Was that clear enough for you?

KArt | Project Michelangelo | LiveJournal

EJSundayModerator
(acolyte)
10/22/04 12:11 PM
No Problem, Here I Am new [re: power2charm]  

In reply to:

If everyone ignored him, he would not have been banned.


That point (like bozoing) was dicussed then and some were of the same opinion as you. Others, myself included, were not and explained why. And there we are at the very point to which it all boils down: Two major groups with two vastly differing opinions about what to do (respectively not to do). And both groups held "quality" posters, though I don't think that is a major point, because when I meant that the good posters were kept away by dd74 I meant basically everyone here contributing more or less regularly.

Anyway, as I have said before in this thread and in the previous discussions what we tried to reach was a compromise - and I think we did manage that, but with a few hardliners on both sides still unwilling to accept that. My way or non, as I said before. And that's what I find as wrong as having banned dd74 for good. And the present proves us right if I believe what I read in the thread about dd74's return.

In reply to:

banning isn't a group decision.


It was in this case and I supported the decision, at least when you see the mods as a group. From your first post on I found it quite weird that you ascribed the banning to me personally.

As in most of your other wild guesses turned into attacks you are wrong there.

And I want to believe
In the madness that calls 'now'


power2charm
(stardust savant)
10/22/04 01:06 PM
I love you, Euro Mods new [re: EJSunday]  

This morning, Sysiyo and EJ came to me in a dream as I was sleeping at my desk.

They *explained* some things to me that I had *misunderstood*.

Now I understand.

I appreciate and value the wisdom and generosity of our Euro Mods.

It is ohramona who must be deleted.

ohramon

ohramo

ohram

ohra

ohr

oh

o

***

"Once in Germany someone said 'nein'!" ~ Jeff Tweedy


SysiyoModerator
(thunder ocean)
10/22/04 01:56 PM
Re: I love you, Euro Mods new [re: power2charm]  

EJ, it seems our mental conditioning plan was a success. Let's hope p2c won't start suspecting any of his false memories.

KArt | Project Michelangelo | LiveJournal

Monkeyboy
(stardust savant)
10/22/04 02:37 PM
Re: Ah, I see. new [re: Sysiyo]  

In reply to:

Was that clear enough for you?


Enough for me. The clear impression I've gotten is that people can now be banned simply for being annoying.

I have to admit that I'm seriously doubting my loyalty to and/or involvement in these boards if that really is the case. Which it seems to be.

With a bozo filter already in place, banning someone for any reason outside of threats or other potentially dangerous behavior is nothing short of an abuse of power. We don't need party planners or Social Engineers, thank you. If we don't like someone, we can ignore them very easily and obvious trolls such as the one mentioned have always faded away within a matter of weeks. A few weeks of annoyance are worth having a board where people need not fear their stupidity getting kicked out of the group. I know that historically "social darwinism" has come to mean something very different, but a re-definition of the term may be useful for this sort of setting. There are people here who can verbally abuse the idiots into leaving and we do so in a way that tends to be highly entertaining to many people. Banning people simply for being abnoxious not only destroys the "democratic tradition" that we like to talk about, but it robs a few of us of potentially great material.

This place started eroding the second that Alters were banned. Think Frontier Thesis if you need to. Ever since then the policy is becoming more and more "be popular or die".

For good or for awesome

Monkeyboy
(stardust savant)
10/22/04 05:09 PM
It hurts to disagree with you, Marquis new [re: Marquis]  

In reply to:

but surely you can't deny that going from zero to acolyte in 6 months is indicative of a wicked case of logorrhea.


Yeah. So what? At least there was some content to his posts. Sure it was moronic and totally annoying, but it was clear to me that there was some purpose to them. If only to him. The idiot. That, to me, doesn't really constitute a bannable offense. I also have to wonder if he would have been banned if it were clear that he was joking. I still contend that ddgz is the most brilliantly constructed alter ever. If that were the case I don't think that he would have been banned.

In reply to:

Whether or not dogz' posting habits constituted 'flooding' exactly is certainly debatable....and his pre-banned incarnation showed neither remorse for his clutter nor any sign that he was planning to heed the collective cry of TW to stem the flow of his mis-punctuated nonsense.


That's exactly the problem. It is debatable. Maybe the guy just had a lot to say. A lot of stupid, but still a lot. He never failed to enrage me but I never hoped for a second that he would actually let that change his behavior. That's what makes this place so doggone swell (or it did); everyone's allowed to be as smart, idiotic, blatantly fictional, cleverly hidden, ignorant, or tolerant as they like. The real fun comes in seeing how all of these different behaviors and mindsets come together to form a whole that is dependant upon the sum of its parts. Asking someone to show remorse for being a total jackass is just putting too much effort into feeding them more reasons to continue being one. Which is pretty much why I enjoy asking him to.

In reply to:

At any rate, the whole affair is in the past, so your diatribe seems a little untimely.


Yes, but it raises some concerns that might need to be looked at. If ddgz was banned because of his lack of content, I can name about 50 people who are a better example of such a thing - Elsie the cow comes to mind as does Rose Stardust. Though it would pain me to see either one of them go. Okay, maybe I could handle Elsie leaving. But the point is that she shouldn't have to. If it is the quantity of posts, maybe we should have banned Shyster some time ago. The point is that with the banning of ddgz, the bar for banning has been lowered significantly. Before it was anything that could be seen as potentially dangerous, like the stalker I encountered many years ago. Evan will forever be my homey for taking care of that problem. Aleczandeh was a different kind of dangerous. He came in and announced proudly that he was determined to acheive a certain status within a relatively short amount of time (I think it was a week). Evan, rightfully, banned the fucker because the message had to be sent that such behavior wouldn't be tolerated as it genuinely got in the way of anyone having any sort of coherent discussion. I don't know if you were around for it but even I, the sworn defender of the Anon, applauded the ban. Then Alecz went on to become the darling of BowieNet, which should really tell us all something about that shit site. The only real message that has been sent with ddgz's banning is that if your posts aren't up to a changable, vaguely-defined quality that is known by only about 32 people (and who all have varying opinions on what the standard really is), you aren't welcome here.

In reply to:

I will submit for your consideration that it is precisely because you had dogz bozoed that you may not have a full appreciation for his (alleged) transgressions. Even I stopped caring one way or another once I put him on the list.


That's another problem. People are too stupid, lazy, or fascist to simply use thier bozo filter to modify the forum to thier liking. If you don't like someone, just avoid them. Far too many people are anxious to see people that might rub them the wrong way removed from everyone's view.

In reply to:

However, if the inhabitants of my bozo filter were to start flooding Coffee Shop with dead baby photos, would their behavior be any less ban-able because I, personally, was able to ignore it?


A few angles on this one. First, it wouldn't be your problem. Second, such a thing should be edited. If the offense continued then maybe we shouldn't be able to post photos for a while. After the option was enabled again, should the people continue to do it we might need to consider a ban. Regardless, I think no bans should happen without a vote or without Evan initiating it. It is his site after all and he can ditch its democratic structure whenever he sees fit. And finally, should I be banned for continually tricking people into seeing this? No. Because a) it's funny, and b) I am a long-standing member of this community. But when we start throwing around fancy ideas like democracy and fairness, should that even matter?

I'm actually glad that new people can't register because we should get this whole thing more or less figured out before we start submitting new people to our odd ideas of who is worthy enough to post what. And we all know the stupid shit newbies post.

Oh, how I miss them.

For good or for awesome

Strawman
(stardust savant)
10/22/04 06:00 PM
He really got to you didn't he? new [re: Monkeyboy]  

In reply to:

If it is the quantity of posts, maybe we should have banned Shyster some time ago.


Shyster - Registered - 11/21/02 - Posts - 793

Contribution - Fucked a few people off yet ultimately cracked a whole lot more of 'em up.

diamondogz74 - Registered - 07/20/03 - Posts - 3,719

Contibution - Fucked most people off and added considerable weight to an already wankety server.



In this world second thoughts, it seems, are best.

OleanderWhoosh
(wild eyed peoploid)
10/22/04 06:56 PM
Re: The Euro Mods are watching you new [re: 96dbFreak]  

The Euro Mods are just full of themselves... but WHY do you so violently despise DD74?!!?!! Honestly, you people...

Gimme some good 'ole lobotomy...

Monkeyboy
(stardust savant)
10/22/04 07:00 PM
I must have missed his best stuff new [re: Strawman]  

In reply to:

Shyster - Registered - 11/21/02 - Posts - 793

Contribution - Fucked a few people off yet ultimately cracked a whole lot more of 'em up.

diamondogz74 - Registered - 07/20/03 - Posts - 3,719

Contibution - Fucked most people off and added considerable weight to an already wankety server.


I'll never understand people's defense of Shyster. But I've been told that he actually was worthwhile before I returned from the dead. So I'll assume that is the case.

Okay, bad example. I'm not saying he didn't post an awful lot of really craptacular bullshit, I just don't think it should be a problem so long as they aren't intentionally flooding the boards. It's like Fredo from the Godfather. Just because he's a total retard doesn't make it right for Michael to have him killed.

For good or for awesome

NomDePlume
(grinning soul)
10/23/04 03:35 AM
Re: I must have missed his best stuff new [re: Monkeyboy]  

In reply to:

I'll never understand people's defense of Shyster...
Okay, bad example


Maybe not. The fact that the only poster coming running to his rescue this is his creator (Strawman=Shyster as we all know) says it all. Shyster is one of Strawman many totally unfunny alters. Maybe one of these days he'll stumble on a funny one but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you

This place is shrinking not just in numbers but in minds. Like you say, be popular or die. Get in the in crowd or die.

When I started coming here, there were scores of funny different posters. Lots of different types of funny too. Now there's only one type of funny allowed, a very nerdish geekish humour based round Strawman's unfunny alters and the in crowds stock insults and slams on movies. Anything else they deem not just unfunny, but also annoying and detrimental to interaction, and now it seems that's grounds for banning.

You and p2c and a couple of others are the only half decent posters left. This pathetic little crowd probably won't rest until you're gone too. Then they'll have the place all to themselves which is what they really want deep down. For the most part, this feels like a great party but after nearly all the cool kids went home. Now we're left with a pile of nerds making lists and jokes about each other's glasses.



Hannibal_Lecter
(grinning soul)
10/23/04 09:45 AM
He’s online - Cooee! new [re: power2charm]  

Jesus motherfucking Christ, I thought I blabbered inordinately until I stumbled back from Miami Airport just this morning, scanning threads for a quick breakfast (you must understand, browsing TW forums is much like browsing a food menu for me) and now I’m very bored. And, in the middle of it all, power2complain has the nerve to ask EJ to be “succinct” while he’s turning each post into friggin’ War and Peace (read that one, Charmy? ). Still, now it’s payback time and I hope p2c justifies this rant with a reply equally sprawling (if ill-conceived) to repudiate my charges which, as you will see, are many and entirely serious.

In reply to:

I am not quite sure if you are serious


In reply to:

Having said all that, though, I can't honestly believe you're serious.


See, here’s where gut reactions lead us astray. 96dbfreak has answered for me on this point already (Hi, Stu! ) but it’s all kind of irrelevant because p2c has outlined half-truths in the changes he would like to see and is now doing his level best to coerce the mods into his method of thinking by suggesting they are inadequate if they do not comply. This smacks of the Thomaswood Rule (an equally verbose and anal thread) where he had to concede he was joking after TW rightly denounced his proposal, yet he’s later called on posters to obey it, as though the law is now established TW code. Now we see why he’s in favour of the “spirit” of the law and not the letter; don’t be fooled – the “power hungry yeti” is p2c himself. And a fat one at that.

Sadly, the upshot is that no-one will now take his plea for the saving of the artiste forum seriously. It is indeed a tragedy that some of those threads have made way for dreary shite like this. Yet beside the TWood Rule, he’s also given a hatchet-job to subjects like Poorsoul and DopeyDogz74 (Christ, powercharm², can’t you start threads about something other than TW?), deliberately agitating posters against said bozoees to a worse degree than any mod has done. His constant slew of attacks and namedropping serve only to focus the topic of discussion around idiots which inevitably creates idiot-posting and idiot-filled threads. THIS IS PRECISELY THE KIND OF INTERACTION-KILLING EJ WAS TALKING ABOUT, you blundering dolt. Regrettably, powuh2charm doesn’t understand that TW is NOT like his stomach, ever-expanding, ever-accommodating to the mountain of shit he puts into it, and that a healthy majority – not just Sysyoyoyo – consented to the expiry of the forum making a painful but necessary sacrifice. Had I contributed regularly to the forum I may feel slightly more aggrieved, but let’s remember it was only initiated to get shut of the bloody awful limerick threads that hogged coffee shop for weeks on end. (Stay-tuned, dear readers, for my debut in there shortly – Corpse in a Corolla. )

WAIT! There’s more!

In reply to:

I bozoed [DD74] and afterwards I hardly knew or cared whether he improved or declined in his inanity.


power2charm (05/07/04)

A BONA FIDE doofus would not likely know and love the works of a fuzzy math euro director like Frank Truffaut. I conclude that ddz74 IS an alter-ego, and I am frightened of the person who would waste their life writing him. Whoever you are, seek help. (Nice touch though in intentionally fucking up the book/film title.)

I'm still bozoing alteregoz74 though cos it's easier than scrolling past his manure.



Oh dear, it’s seems that you couldn’t hold yourself from answering him at all, only that Dogz was so ubiquitous that you felt compelled to reply to him, even as a bozo. Yet why would you respond to a bozo, to chastise him, if he wasn’t hogging discussion and strangling yet another thread he stuck his mucky paws on?

Furthermore, I believe the banning was correct and has led to roughly 150% improvement in Dogz’s own posts. Imagine how great the boards would be if the mods intercepted dickweeds earlier, banned them for a month, then reintegrated them after they’ve had time to acclimatize to TW’s foibles! Let’s face it, some people are asking for it:

Hannibal’s 150% Sin Bin

1) power2charm – I know you said, “Don’t ban posters just because you or others don’t like them,” but I cannot forgive the denigrating slurs you made against cannibalism. So I guess it’s true; I don’t like you. BUT…. I noticed in another thread, however, you were advocating the ban of QualityControl – an organization I indeed know very, very little about – and I’m sure if I asked you to explain this I’d give you enough fodder to rack up another 1000-word essay. So pray, tell us, what was all that about?? Currently, this stands as my second charge of hypocrisy.

2) tonyinsf – Similarly, cannibalistic slurs will make you no friends, Tones, and it’s not simply a matter of not ‘liking’ you, it’s a fact that your posts are total arse as well.

3) Hangontoyourself – She won my little competition of “Prize Twat” which clearly deserves a sin-binning.

4) Claude – Should be banned until someone here can say “internally-linked avatar” in Italian.

Finally, I’d just like to reiterate what an arse-hung toy of a thread this is. ‘Tis a pity that the great Mr TW, once loved by many now relies on the support of DD74 and pablopicasso, and stares into a shallow well of dried-up topics. (I could hardly call your ‘booker’ thread a stunning success, could I?) Speaking of which, how was your little honeymoon with Pablo? Did you get him to shave off the moustache, or did you spend the entire journey squirming against an uncomfortable prickly sensation on your ass? Be sure to let me know if you holiday anywhere else soon, because I LOVE a threesome and, put bluntly……….

I AM IRRESISTIBLE!!!!

I have eaten:
TJ Newton
Stu's dossier
DDz74's sister


pablopicasso
(stardust savant)
10/23/04 10:22 AM
Re: He’s online - Cooee! new [re: Hannibal_Lecter]  

In reply to:

‘Tis a pity that the great Mr TW, once loved by many now relies on the support of DD74 and pablopicasso,



As much as I disagree with responding to fictitional characters, please tell me where I supported P2C in his tirade against the EuroMods? My points were more to do with constructive critisism than anything else. I have no gripes with any of the active moderators.


Now, just let me finish

power2charm
(stardust savant)
10/23/04 11:08 AM
You forget yourself, Doctor new [re: Hannibal_Lecter]  

Dr. Lecter, perhaps you should give yourself a few hours, or even a full day, to recuperate from aeroplane flights before posting; I think you'll agree, once you are rested, that you have not organized your thoughts sufficiently to launch an effective assault on my aims and means vis a vis my Site Feedback threads.

Indeed, I question whether you even understand their purpose, and given your education and experience, which far outstrips mine, I hesistate to frankly divulge my impetuses. (Or is it impeti?)

Your colorful language and appropriations of my username are unbecoming for a man of your Letters. I am surprised and disappointed to observe you in such a reduced condition - I will assign it to the jet lag and think of this post of yours nevermore!

I believe this is your post's thesis:

[power2charm's] constant slew of attacks and namedropping serve only to focus the topic of discussion around idiots which inevitably creates idiot-posting and idiot-filled threads. THIS IS PRECISELY THE KIND OF INTERACTION-KILLING EJ WAS TALKING ABOUT, you blundering dolt.

Am I correct? I will proceed as if I am (as always).

I did not make this thread with Mr. 74 in mind, except insofar as he is back among the fold, I thought it ill-advised for Sysiyo, or any moderator, to continue stating his outright dislike for the poster. The larger point being, as I've stated, that it can be inhibiting for the poster targeted and for other posters observing the dynamic to operate in an environment where the moderators name heroes and villains.

As the banning has been the moderators' biggest challenge since assuming their duties, it is natural that it came up for discussion. It will probably happen again. What happens to people who ignore history, Dr. Lecter? Can you tell us?

My posts on TW are varied in topic; you referenced my Booker Prize thread as being a lesser one. Book threads never do very well on messageboards for various reasons: because there are many books and aside from bestsellers it's difficult to find ones that many on a board have all read, they require patience in the reading, there's much in any one book to address, and so forth.

I post about films and music and teenage girls and all manner of things. I'm comfortable, therefore, in occasionally dropping into Site Feedback where I can roll in the self-referential mud like a pig in his sty. A fat pig, as you've so kindly reminded the good people.

I hope I have adequately addressed your concerns, Dr. Lecter. When you are feeling refreshed, perhaps you will drop by the Booker Prize thread and advise me which novels I might especially enjoy.

"Once in Germany someone said 'nein'!" ~ Jeff Tweedy


Monkeyboy
(stardust savant)
10/23/04 11:14 AM
Re: I must have missed his best stuff new [re: NomDePlume]  

In reply to:

The fact that the only poster coming running to his rescue this is his creator (Strawman=Shyster as we all know) says it all. Shyster is one of Strawman many totally unfunny alters.


I can see how knowing that would make him funny, actually. Shyster is a somewhat clever alter (if he is one), poking fun at the poster who thinks they are somewhat more of a badass than they really are. But as a unique, real poster he is total shit. But then my policy is pretty consistant that unless it is glaringly obvious (such as Darth Cheney), I am willing to give just about everyone here the benefit of the doubt - knowing fully that the person I just spent five days arguing with could send me a PM stating that they are the creation of a friend of mine. I don't mind being had. It's part of the fun around here.

For good or for awesome

Monkeyboy
(stardust savant)
10/23/04 11:19 AM
After the Bookers, I suggest Goosebumps new [re: power2charm]  

Really. I couldn't sleep without having Amy Grant on for about three months after reading "The Goblin In My Gym Shorts".

For good or for awesome

Strawman
(acolyte)
10/23/04 12:20 PM
Re: I must have missed his best stuff new [re: NomDePlume]  

In reply to:

Maybe not. The fact that the only poster coming running to his rescue this is his creator (Strawman=Shyster as we all know) says it all. Shyster is one of Strawman many totally unfunny alters. Maybe one of these days he'll stumble on a funny one but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you


Okay, hands up, I'm fully aware that my alters and myself are dire & unfunny to most, and that they're contrived by way of selfishness, usually out of boredom. That's one of the problems with having too much time on ones hands. I say selfish because I've derived many a laugh from both creating and using them, which I know is kind of wrong I suppose I should create them to entertain others but I really can't be arsed.

Just like you.




In this world second thoughts, it seems, are best.

NomDePlume
(grinning soul)
10/23/04 12:50 PM
Re: I must have missed his best stuff new [re: Strawman]  

In reply to:

I'm fully aware that my alters and myself are dire & unfunny to most.. That's one of the problems with having too much time on ones hands


Well you could always spend more time with the wife and kids. Seems a little irresponsible having kids then wasting all your time here.



ohramonaModerator
(stardust savant)
10/23/04 01:05 PM
I feel all fade-y inside! new [re: pablopicasso]  

In reply to:

pablopicasso: May I just say that I think you are a fabulous moderator EJ? [With accompanying picture of a growth of pansies.]


You know, hardy little blossoms that pansies may be, they're usually associated with poofdom. Next time you want to butter EJ up with some vegetation, may I suggest a manly, hardy, winter squash?



In reply to:

p2c: I bozoed him and afterwards I hardly knew or cared whether he improved or declined in his inanity. That's why the bozo is there, as you well know.


Ah... And you know what? I've always found the bozoing tool to be quite effective for filtering out what I didn't want to read. But you are the one who told me, in your "Mr. TW Mandate" sort of way, that as a moderator, I am not allowed to bozo anyone. Remember? So far, I am not allowed to bozo, and I am not allowed to express my like or dislike of a poster. What other mandates you got up your sleeve?

As with my contentedness in hangdoggy's freedom to state that he doesn't like me, I've no problem with you telling us, the mods, what you think we did wrong. And your opinion, and all those expressed on this thread, will undoubtedly impact the next decision that arises. But the egocentricism you exhibit in expecting us to say "Fine, whatever p2c wants, we'll do" irks me plenty.

In reply to:

banning isn't a group decision. At least, it never used to be when Evan made the decision.


How astute you are. There were no group decisions before there was a group.



In order to be mod, first you must be hip.

EuropeanCanon
(crash course raver)
10/23/04 01:09 PM
96dbfreak - a face only a mother could love new [re: Monkeyboy]  

Stu looking all mean and moody...


Moments later, Stu thinks of a "witty" reply to a Marquis post...



Ich heisse super fantastische

Marquis
(acolyte)
10/23/04 01:44 PM
How the hell do you spell ban-able? new [re: Monkeyboy]  

In reply to:

I still contend that ddgz is the most brilliantly constructed alter ever. If that were the case I don't think that he would have been banned.


Well, I'm notoriously bad at figuring out alters, but I seem to remember somewhere in the foggy banks of my memory thinking the same thing. I'm not sure if this makes him more or less bannable, though, since it would mean that rather than being an illiterate mongoloid he was intentionally being an ass. I guess the intent doesn't really matter in the end, though.

In reply to:

The point is that with the banning of ddgz, the bar for banning has been lowered significantly....The only real message that has been sent with ddgz's banning is that if your posts aren't up to a changable, vaguely-defined quality that is known by only about 32 people (and who all have varying opinions on what the standard really is), you aren't welcome here.


Possibly, and I understand this is why you and p2c and others are so concerned. But look, dogz was posting the way he was posting for about a year. Whether or not idiocy is ban-worthy, I think the fact that it took a year for the subject of banning to come up seriously and then that it took about another month for it to actually happen *and* that he was allowed back after a relatively short time is enough to soothe my mind about our beloved mods wielding their powers without warning in the future. I just hope that everyone else can share my optimism and trust, and that no one will feel discouraged or bullied as you suggest they might.

Guh. Now I feel all dirty and mean for coming down on the side of hard-assedness. Can I atone by re-stating my fervent desire for the return of anons?

In conclusion, I would like to apologize for the fact that nothing I've said on this thread is coherent enough to warrant reply. I guess that's what happens when you start the day with a pair of Beam & cokes and a swig of Jameson. On the plus side, it would seem that my Iron Chef avatar works.

Cuttlefish battle!

Cotton cotton candy Cotton cotton candy-yah
Spun anyway you like


Monkeyboy
(stardust savant)
10/23/04 02:08 PM
Re: I must have missed his best stuff new [re: Strawman]  

In reply to:

I say selfish because I've derived many a laugh from both creating and using them, which I know is kind of wrong I suppose I should create them to entertain others but I really can't be arsed.


So very wrong. There is no other reason to create an alter. Well done!

And I feel totally had. Not the first of last time. Let's kiss and make up. Better yet, how about a good old fashioned, Army-style circle jerk?

For good or for awesome

CharlieManson
(wild eyed peoploid)
10/23/04 02:19 PM
Re: The Euro Mods are watching you new [re: power2charm]  

Power2charm, so you are the current, although maybe not for long Mr TW, well I imagine in the past you must have been quite entertaining, before my time, since I've been around I have found you rather boring in the times that I have had to think of you at all.
Your Wilco thread is the blot on the TW landscape, I can only guess that you must be as dull as the 'music' they produce.
I think everyone should stop using dd74 as a weapon to fight with. He was banned, he was allowed back, he has changed for the better, surely a product of a good penal system?
The Euro mods are as good as the other mods, they keep in the background as far as moderating goes, and are here to enjoy themselves like everyone else. I think there was something wrong in Sysiyo's attitude with dd74 but it is nice to see he was big enough to apologise for his actions.

Strawman, your alters will go down in history, as will Monkeyboys. The only trouble I have now is I don't think Dr. Hannibal Lector is who I thought he was.

The mods do a great but thankless task.

Thank you mods.


I'll slash them cold, I'll kill them dead
I'll break them gooks, I'll crack their heads
I'll slice them till they're running red
But now I've got the running gun blues


Monkeyboy
(stardust savant)
10/23/04 03:00 PM
ddgz had no weapons of mass destruction new [re: CharlieManson]  

Sorry, I just thought of that line as I was urinating and giggled to myself. Thought I'd share.

For good or for awesome

Starlite
(stardust savant)
10/23/04 03:25 PM
Re: You forget yourself, Doctor new [re: power2charm]  

In reply to:

I believe this is your post's thesis:


Wait, I thought that the good doctor's thesis was that, rather than the moderators being power-hungry bullies, it's you who's trying to bully TW into being the kind of messageboard you'd like it to be?

"I love Let's Dance! I love every track on it! I love China Girl!"
--Wraith2


Hannibal_Lecter
(grinning soul)
10/23/04 04:30 PM
I've been charmed new [re: power2charm]  

That response was so serene and level-headed that it has left me utterly disarmed. Truly, nothing to stick my teeth into. Mr Charm, you are renowned for your inimitable, belligerent style, but I believe that was the first post of yours I've encountered that has not used the caps lock key. It isn't broken, is it?

C'mon, play-fight?

In reply to:

What happens to people who ignore history, Dr. Lecter? Can you tell us?


They make the same mistakes again, allegedly. Still, I'd allow some leeway for those who don't learn history to come out on top by taking a lucky stab.

Don't worry, that wasn't my main point. Here it is:

In reply to:

>> I did not make this thread with Mr. 74 in mind, except insofar as he is back among the fold, I thought it ill-advised for Sysiyo, or any moderator, to continue stating his outright dislike for the poster. The larger point being, as I've stated, that it can be inhibiting for the poster targeted and for other posters observing the dynamic to operate in an environment where the moderators name heroes and villains.


On a point of clarification – I am to understand by “to continue” that Sysiyo only crossed the mark in the comments twister (I’ve gotta publish a TW diet plan soon) linked to after Dogz re-introduction? Surely you were arguing that it was wrong for him to EVER make abusive remarks against a poster, in which case consider this point:

I believe it is absolutely possible separate the personal liking/disliking of a poster from a decision to ban/suspend them. My Sin Bin list, of course, is a list of people who, though I may not like, I do not wish to be banned because they all fit in here some way or another. The point of the Sin Bin was to satirize a desire you expressed in another post to see QC banned, but given this is a thorny point and you brushed over it, so will I.

I can only see a relevance to Syisyo’s comments if you believe that the mods whipped up a frenzy to rouse posters to rally for Dogz banning rather than vice versa. Actually, I thought that the continual updates from HQ were helpful to gauge how far down the road to Banville Dogz had plodded, and applied extra pressure on him to modify his behavior. Sadly this had only a minor effect (no more quintuple posting etc. – yet he remained a fierce board presence.) What’s more, the defenders who you imply were tricked into accepting the mods’ way of thinking remained vocal throughout his trials and were NOT ridiculed or silenced by the great Yeti or Bratwurst. I could level a parallel charge at Mr TW – a highly responsible and burdensome position, one you rose to – for making vituperative posts on an hourly basis. What if a newbie, ignorant to the structure of this place, stumbles across the glorious words of wisdom from your good self and took them as gospel? I mean, Mr TW sounds like you own the place, both higher than the mods and higher than Evan himself, doesn’t it?

And now I must return to this statement …

In reply to:

I bozoed him and afterwards I hardly knew or cared whether he improved or declined in his inanity. That's why the bozo is there, as you well know.


… which implies that it was perfectly possible to navigate TW using a bozo like a huge pooper-scooper that removed Dogz offensive turds. Having remembered the post of yours I quoted, I was rather annoyed that you claimed impunity when many others found ignoring was not possible. It was apodictic there was a continual resource of new posters to annoy (and took up the rest of the thread being warned against him) or simply old posters who he answered to despite knowing they had him bozoed (which some duly pointed out on their behalf). (Actually my debut in Artiste was precisely of this nature, though hardly memorable) Furthermore I submit that it was contradictory not to speak out in Dogz favor before the ban because you were ignoring him and ‘hardly cared’, yet find yourself the author of this thread now.

In reply to:

When you are feeling refreshed, perhaps you will drop by the Booker Prize thread and advise me which novels I might especially enjoy.


I do not deny that it was potentially a good thread (though judging by your own responses you didn’t like them too much), only that this simultaneous venture deep into the anal cavity of TW Moderating appeared to be largely motivated by a wish to incense mods and others and – bingo – blockbuster thread time! Bullying, as Starlite just said. Having read your last post I will concede that this was not the main motivation of the thread (but maintain you fully knew or should have known about artiste expiry).

As it happens, I did have another post lined up for your In Bed With Beltene thread, which I wrote before I saw this latest response, one that was particularly nasty and graphic, though I’ve decided to retract it and sober up first.

Still, it is available for private viewing.


I have eaten:
TJ Newton
Stu's dossier
DDz74's sister


power2charm
(stardust savant)
10/23/04 06:27 PM
How I grew to love the Euro Mods new [re: Hannibal_Lecter]  

Dr. Lecter, I am pleased to see you posting in your customary fashion, which is one of reason and skillful persuasion.

I devised this thread with tongue in cheek, but at the same time, with kernels of concern that the moderating not become obtrusive. I did not, I should state in fairness to EJ and Sysiyo, do extensive research beforehand for purposes of girding myself for battle.

Instead, what I wrote was based upon my perception of the tone of the boards now versus the olden days of just Adam. But again, I emphasize I wrote this thread with humorous bluster more than out of concern. It could have been all yuks or knives out! as far as I was concerned.

It is unfortunate that I enjoy arguing as much as I do, because I allowed myself to have one, albeit in my mind it was largely hypothetical as I don't see another ddz74 poster coming along (dear God please).

In the end, I believe EJ and Sysiyo are good men (please don't eat them), and, indeed, I am greatly impressed by Sysiyo's degree of introspection and humility in considering the merits of my suggestions.

And yes, I was in error to blame Sysiyo for the state of Artistes. I do still contend that the issue of "merit" - that allows some threads there to be kept and most others not - be fleshed out, but I will save that for another bitchfest - I'm not made of ideas, you know!

I realize I'm not being thorough in answering you, point by point, Doctor. But in light of my epiphany - that Europe has not ruined Sysiyo and EJ yet - it seems moot to defend this stance or that. And I would also note that you tend to come to arguments with sinks from other kitchens entirely, which I find muddles the issue.

To wit, Quality Control is a multi-user user name that a small number of our less scintillating posters share in order to harangue with PMs those whom they do not like. Because the QC concept has been dormant of late, to my knowledge, I only referenced it the other day to "stick it" to the boobs who think they're all that and a bag of popcorn.

Finally, as to my championing of the bozo to rid ourselves of imbeciles, I only offer my opinion that, theoretically and in nearly all cases, ignoring a user on a messageboard will drive the user away. I've seen it happen unintentionally here and other other boards scores of times.

I acknowledge Mr. 74 has been barnacle-like in his adherence to this messageboard, but I also observe that people kept responding to him, and he even had a friend or two (thanks again, Pablo). So a freeze-out wasn't going to be effective. He found interest here, and he aroused interest, even though much of it was hostile.

The moderators have now allegedly modified his behavior, and all I have is the slippery slope argument. I think Mr. 74 is execrably pathetic and without a shred of pride to come back under behavior dictates. After all, he was only being a fool, but he is still my star bozo, so what.ev.er..

Best wishes, Doctor Lecter. I do hope you will join White Prism and me on the Booker Prize thread. I'm finding "Oscar and Lucinda" to be quite accomplished and engaging, and upon finishing it I will probably amble over to some of the stuff White P mentioned so as to "make a connection" with one of the smoother-running brains on the board.

"Once in Germany someone said 'nein'!" ~ Jeff Tweedy


SysiyoModerator
(thunder ocean)
10/23/04 06:49 PM
Re: How I grew to love the Euro Mods new [re: power2charm]  

In reply to:

I do still contend that the issue of "merit" - that allows some threads there to be kept and most others not - be fleshed out, but I will save that for another bitchfest - I'm not made of ideas, you know!


There were plans earlier to form a committee of users who would decide which threads are being kept and which are not, but as no-one started complaining (until you brought it up) the idea was forgotten about at the time. It isn't a bad idea, but how many people would really be willing to take up the task of being a member of such a committee and reviewing all threads in artiste, discussing them, and finally voting about which threads stay and which go?

And like I noted previously, I've thus far (sans your request ) never declined a request for keeping a thread. If a thread has some artistical merit (or it spawned a lot of conversation, like the Anotherpoet threads which have been kept) and someone requests it to be kept then I keep it. Of course the system isn't perfect.

KArt | Project Michelangelo | LiveJournal

pablopicasso
(stardust savant)
10/23/04 06:59 PM
Re: How I grew to love the Euro Mods new [re: Sysiyo]  

I think Artiste works fine as it is, with people suggesting which threads are kept. May I suggest the halloween round robin is kept?

Now, just let me finish

RabbitFighter
(acolyte)
10/23/04 07:00 PM
Re: I must have missed his best stuff new [re: Monkeyboy]  

In reply to:

how about a good old fashioned, Army-style circle jerk?


So that's how they do it while defending your country? I'm only familiar with the halfcircle formation around a tv showing gayporn...


"Whatever problems I have, Cobra will always be my cure"

96dbFreak
(acolyte)
10/23/04 07:11 PM
Re: 96dbfreak - a face only a mother could love new [re: EuropeanCanon]  

At least I'm not a Phil Collins fan, Nick.

Stu
Get Bowie Back Downunder
The GBBD 2005 campaign starts here!


Strawman
(acolyte)
10/24/04 08:29 AM
Re: I must have missed his best stuff new [re: NomDePlume]  

In reply to:

Well you could always spend more time with the wife and kids. Seems a little irresponsible having kids then wasting all your time here.


What are your views on parents who send their kids to private boarding schools?

In this world second thoughts, it seems, are best.

Hannibal_Lecter
(grinning soul)
10/24/04 09:36 AM
Dearest Robert … new [re: power2charm]  

… you seem to have anticipated this reply fairly well. It appears we still have some small disagreements on minor points (viz. bozoing) but I think we’ve each outlined our positions adequately and see no need to run over them again. Instead, I’d like to move on to another area – one I hopefully gave an impression of in my opening diatribe on this thread:

In reply to:

…I emphasize I wrote this thread with humorous bluster more than out of concern. It could have been all yuks or knives out! as far as I was concerned


That’s fine and I sympathize with your stance; many a time I’ve started threads with exactly that in mind – a view to accommodate my responses (be they argumentative, inquisitive, experimental) to how others interpret my initial gambit. What became apparent later in this thread, however, is that the distinction between seriousness and jokiness became strained; people indeed took your opening post in all sorts of directions. Now I don’t particularly want to go down the dullard TJ Newton route of “I can’t get a joke on the internet,” but I’d like you to consider this: Firstly, I would argue that this thread has had an impact on peoples’ attitudes on how the board is run. Yet I feel your gibing ultimately weakened some otherwise good points (I’m sure you wouldn’t mind if I compared your diplomatic skills to a rampant rhinoceros ) and it was this that returned some stubborn and dismissive replies from the mods you attacked. I’m not advocating for or against your techniques only that you are fully aware of how they affected the reception of your argument. As you’re an avid reader of my posts I’m sure you recognize that I’m all for insults in a friendly, playful manner, and for insults in lampooning idiots (particularly those impervious to reason), but in this case faced with those of good enough intelligence it mattered not about the jokiness or the strength of language that was used because there was ammunition aplenty in your opening post that suggested you’d like nothing more than to discredit the mods and turn them into a bunch of doofuses, no matter how they took your argument.

Again, I’ll allow you to weigh up the merits of this perhaps overly-confrontational approach, only I thought that in light of your recent pontificating I should point out the dangers that lie in this third method turning the board into a kind of pandemonium. I believe I, Hannibal Lecter, would thrive in such an environment and really couldn’t care less if it descended into constant shit-slinging (yes, we know anyone who gets personally offended here is a little pansy, and I get my kicks from a kind of argumentative horripilation) but I’m always here to humor those who threaten to turn it into such.

Okay, and now I’m done. I’ve omitted a couple of notes I scribbled down in striving to keep this brief, but hopefully you get my drift. At the moment I’ve just begun reading Greg Iles’ Mortal Fear – yes, you’ve guessed it, a novel about a serial killer; I’m always after new techniques, you see – but given you’re no hack yourself, I’ll note down Oscar and Lucinda on my already weighty to-do list. I’m sure it comes as little surprise that I like my novels as I like my victims – fun, feisty and carried off with a stunning climax.

I have eaten:
TJ Newton
Stu's dossier
DDz74's sister


AItoid
(grinning soul)
10/24/04 08:00 PM
Re: I must have missed his best stuff new [re: Strawman]  

In reply to:

What are your views on parents who send their kids to private boarding schools?


if their old enough to bleed their old enuff tobe butchered



Dara
(acolyte)
10/25/04 11:51 AM
Yowza, a good old fashioned P2C blockbuster! new [re: power2charm]  

In reply to:

Adam got it right with ohro, but he's 1 for 4 overall


I know you're joking, but still a bit of a cheek in my book taking a pop at our (largely absent) uber mod, suggesting that the choice of mods was all his own work, when you know as well as I do that that wasn't so.

A number of interesting points and suggestions in this thread though. I particularly liked Monkeyboy's suggestion that the mods should have been anon (in theory at least - I'm sure word would get out quick enough), and his view that unpopularity in itself should not be a reason for banning. And as you probably know already I have a basic sympathy for your views on bannings and social engineering, and your slippery slope argument. I also agree that ideally it would be great if a moderator could be largely impartial to all posters, or at least not overtly hostile, but you know as well as I do that the only real candidates for this largely thankless task at the time were people who were "big personalities". On balance, I'd have to say it would have been a disaster if we'd essentially lost three posters of the calibre of Ohramona, EJSunday and Sysiyo just to gain three extra pairs of hands to delete smutty pictures. The number of quality posters is already shrinking from what I gather. So let 'em do their job but still post as they see fit.

I also disagree with you that EJSunday and Sysiyo have been bad moderators. In fact, I think they've been bloody marvellous, and utterly undeserving of attack, no matter how much in jest. It is as I said a thankless task, somebody had to do it, and they've done it admirably and with responsibility. That's not to say I've always agreed with everything. I fundamentally disagreed with the banning of DDogz. That said, my concerns at the time would not have been as great if I'd realised it was a short temporary ban only (I somehow missed that!), and in retrospect it seems to have worked out well, so I'm willing to concede I may have been wrong and the mods right.

Perhaps something we all need to think about going forward is how we want mods appointed. The way they were appointed last time made good sense at the time, but at the very least, we need a way of replacing mods who want out of the burden, or are going to be be absent for long periods. It might, for example, make sense to have a more transparent and open selection method in future. Maybe even direct elections.

It might also make sense to have fixed terms. This of course assumes there are others who are even interested in being moderators. But perhaps there are, and if so, it might make sense to at least give the existing ones a break, and others the chance to assume the role (I can think of a few I'd consider ideal for the role: Pablopicasso and Marquis to name but two). Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Granted, there's no real evidence of any of our mods being corrupted yet though. Personally, I see moderatorship as being a bit like the Papacy, an onerous burden from which there is no real escape, so this might be a way to spread the load, and do it more democratically this time. Freedom on the march at TW!

So what do people think? Would (say) yearly elections for moderators from the different time zones be a runner, or should I just shut my yap until I've had more time to absorb what's happened since I went away?

Slan libh,

Dara

"I love gossip; it's the way we gauge our moral place within society, it's integral to the way that we measure each other; it doesn't matter if it's based on fact or fiction." David Bowie

power2charm
(stardust savant)
10/25/04 12:19 PM
This is not only my last post of the month.... new [re: Dara]  

In reply to:

So what do people think? Would (say) yearly elections for moderators from the different time zones be a runner, or should I just shut my yap until I've had more time to absorb what's happened since I went away?


When I win a term as moderator, you know what I'm going to do? I'm a gonna ban all posters who officially retire!!! That way, my missing them terribly won't be spoiled by their coming back two months later!


"Once in Germany someone said 'nein'!" ~ Jeff Tweedy


Marquis
(acolyte)
10/26/04 12:41 PM
Abdication Station new [re: Dara]  

In reply to:

(I can think of a few I'd consider ideal for the role: Pablopicasso and Marquis to name but two)


Well thanks for the nod, but I think there are a number of reasons why I'd be a less than ideal moderator. For starters, lack of home internet means I'm only on TW at work, and even then only when I have time, which boils down to about 24 hrs a week that I *could* devote to TW. Then there's the issue of moderators not being vocal about posters they dislike; I don't think anyone would accuse me of being levelheaded in that regard. Most importantly, I have no concept of what a moderator's duties involve, but I imagine it to be computery business, not my strong suit.

On the other hand, I'm dying to see that secret forum!



Cotton cotton candy Cotton cotton candy-yah
Spun anyway you like


NoGame
(acolyte)
10/30/04 11:24 AM
One word from me for this thread new [re: Dara]  

In reply to:

Dara: (say) yearly elections a runner?


Yes.

Some call this time of year autumn
I prefer fall


Claude
(big brother)
10/31/04 10:57 AM
Re: The Euro Mods are watching you new [re: power2charm]  

Surely, I would be a fantastic euro moderator.

___________________
Claude




blacktropic84
(kook)
11/01/04 11:46 PM
Re: The Euro Mods are watching you new [re: Claude]  

You got my vote!

Andy! Can I have a cup of coffee? ..... And a drummer?

All Sliced Up And Sealed Tight In Baggies
Guess Love Makes You Do Funny Things

diamondogz74
(acolyte)
11/02/04 08:45 AM
Re: The Euro Mods are watching you new [re: Claude]  

In reply to:

Surely, I would be a fantastic euro moderator.


Claude you have my vote

_____________
Rheingold
_____________________


London Bye Ta-Ta...

pablopicasso
(stardust savant)
11/02/04 08:55 AM
Re: The Euro Mods are watching you new [re: diamondogz74]  

Yeah, there are never too many porn sites on the internet

I fly to the nearest bar

SoulLoveChild
(stardust savant)
11/08/04 09:09 AM
Re: The Euro Mods are watching you new [re: pianocraft]  

In reply to:

Recently, Sysio called me an insulting name, "painocraft," and labeled me a "flamebaiter" on the message board. When I called him out on it, he edited the insulting name only.
It is devastating to be insulted and labelled by one with the power to silence your views and remove you. I wonder if this moderator was beginning a campaign to get me banned.


painocraft, my heart just bleeds for you....

You are merely a shit stirrer of the lowest degree.


Get Bowie Back Downunder!
GBBD 2005 !!!!





SoulLoveChild
(stardust savant)
11/08/04 09:39 AM
Wanna know a secret? new [re: Marquis]  

In reply to:

On the other hand, I'm dying to see that secret forum!


psssssst, you don't need to be a moderator to see the secret forum


Get Bowie Back Downunder!
GBBD 2005 !!!!






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