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Pablo-Picasso
(stardust savant)
09/22/05 12:40 PM
New forum?  

As this didn't work out, could we not have a sex forum, so all the sex procrastination threads could be dumped in there and then we could get on with talking about everything else in the coffee shop?

Alternatively could we selectively bozo people in certain fora? EG I appreciate Claude's Bowie pic posts, yet pull (what's left of) my hair out at his posts in the coffee shop?

Wake up!.


FastChanges
(crash course raver)
09/22/05 12:56 PM
Re: New forum? new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

We need a forum for pictures of body parts. We'll call this forum The Jean Genitalia. What do you think?

Parenthood is the opiate of the masses!

Pablo-Picasso
(stardust savant)
09/22/05 01:28 PM
Re: New forum? new [re: FastChanges]  

Excellent name.

Wake up!.


EJSundayModerator
(heroic dolphin)
09/22/05 02:12 PM
Re: New forum? new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

Or Blue Genitalia.

And I want to believe
In the madness that calls 'now'


Monkeyboy
(acolyte)
09/22/05 02:34 PM
The eternal question new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

What is this "everything else" that so many people talk about happening in the Coffee Shop? Because apparently it's very special.

Send help and they might tapdance for you.

Monkeyboy
(acolyte)
09/22/05 02:36 PM
Re: New forum? new [re: EJSunday]  

Or Boys Keep Swinging.

Send help and they might tapdance for you.

Shelle
(electric tomato)
09/22/05 02:36 PM
Re: New forum? new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

In addition to a sex forum, we need a travel tips forum, a random abuse forum, a picture thread forum, a bad jokes forum, a weight loss forum, a polls forum, a movies forum, a other bands forum and a Help Carsten with English forum. Also a Buybull forum for Too Dizzy, and a Pamphlets forum for Wraith. And a Natural Disasters forum for DiamondDoggy.

And that's just for starters!

"Shelle, your mind works like a beautiful train wreck."


Pablo-Picasso
(stardust savant)
09/22/05 02:37 PM
Re: The eternal question new [re: Monkeyboy]  

Well basically it would be nice if a thread on a subject didn't get hijacked by people all the time, so that they all end up as the same old boring subject. It is spreading like a disease at the moment, and is just getting boring.

Wake up!.


diamondogz74
(freecloud)
09/22/05 02:37 PM
Re: New forum? new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

In reply to:

so all the sex procrastination threads could be dumped in there and then we could get on with talking about everything else in the coffee shop?


Take away the sexual content of many threads and you might as shut the shop on TW, I've tried, you've tried, but whatever the thread?( most times ) sex will be mentioned, so it might as well be left as it is.

You up for the next postion of Pope?


London Bye Ta-Ta...

Shelle
(electric tomato)
09/22/05 02:40 PM
Re: The eternal question new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

I'm not sure I understand the concept of thread hijacking. Isn't it just another way of saying "talking about something else when we've run out of things to say about the original thing"?

People will talk about whatever they want to, unless they're in class or something. And people should ignore whatever it is they don't want to be bothered with. It's easily done.

"Shelle, your mind works like a beautiful train wreck."


Pablo-Picasso
(stardust savant)
09/22/05 02:42 PM
Re: New forum? new [re: diamondogz74]  

It has nothing to do with being prudish, nothing to do with censorship, but it would be nice if a thread, once in a while would not degenerate into the sort of crap that really puts people off coming here.

Where is the fun in this it is just pathetic and peurile, totally juvenile.


Utter fucking crap, to be honest.

Wake up!.


Monkeyboy
(acolyte)
09/22/05 02:44 PM
Yes! I'd love to hear about low financing! new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

I seem to get far more bored with people talking about what they don't want to talk about. That particular disease is still lingering around these parts.

As is people's inability to say to themselves "oh look, Claude responded to a thread entitled 'the most gay thing ever in jpeg format,' I think it might be something I don't want to see."

I suppose that if I were to read every post by every poster I would be bothered by it too, but it doesn't even register on my radar.

Send help and they might tapdance for you.

Shelle
(electric tomato)
09/22/05 02:47 PM
Re: New forum? new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

I still don't get it. Who in their right mind thinks a thread entitled "Come To The Cock Show" by Beltene isn't going to be about sex. Or zex even.

I mean, c'mon.

Also, judging by the number of views and replies it got, it's clear at least a few found it entertaining.

"Shelle, your mind works like a beautiful train wreck."


Monkeyboy
(acolyte)
09/22/05 02:50 PM
Another common misconception new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

Can we please stop using the catch-all "it stops people from joining" argument?

I think that the odd voodoo ritual that involves joining might be part of the problem. As is the tendency to accuse every new poster of being an alter. As is the banning of Anon posters. As is the lack of anything new and interesting on the Bowie front since 1997.

If the caustic nature of the subject matter on the boards is a problem at all, it's a very small one.

Send help and they might tapdance for you.

White Prism
(cracked actor)
09/22/05 02:53 PM
Old Forum new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

The Answer To All Your Troubles

Look, created over a year ago with the Horny TWer in mind.

The question is, do the culprits in question have the brain power necessary to figure out the registration process?

Sweetness, sweetness I was only joking when I said
I’d like to smash every tooth in your head


Shelle
(electric tomato)
09/22/05 02:53 PM
Re: Another common misconception new [re: Monkeyboy]  

In reply to:

I think that the odd voodoo ritual that involves joining might be part of the problem. As is the tendency to accuse every new poster of being an alter. As is the banning of Anon posters. As is the lack of anything new and interesting on the Bowie front since 1997.


You've probably got them in reverse order, but otherwise: too fucken right.

"Shelle, your mind works like a beautiful train wreck."


diamondogz74
(freecloud)
09/22/05 03:02 PM
Re: New forum? new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

In reply to:

Where is the fun in this it is just pathetic and peurile, totally juvenile.


To be honest I hadn't even bothered to read that thread, I judged from it's title it wouldn't interest me.

We were informed by Claude that every click here made this site an income, so let the money roll in as long as it keeps the aspects of this forum we mostly join in with.

I was told by a well known member ( Marquis ) that my odd items on ebay thread was boring and not worthy, It seems that what ever is posted it will recieve complaints.

The sexual content of threads does not bother me and who knows it even might encourage some new younger members?

Most of the members in that thread were here long before us, so who are we to judge.


London Bye Ta-Ta...

Pablo-Picasso
(stardust savant)
09/22/05 03:05 PM
Re: New forum? new [re: diamondogz74]  

Yes, you are totally right, that is why everyone holds you in such high regard.


Which is why you probably reply to all of Claudes masturbatory posts.





I remember a year agogetting flak for not giving good contributions to the board, well if this is the sort of crap you all want, who am I to argue.


Let the fucking site sink in the sludge of it's own shit.

Wake up!.


FastChanges
(crash course raver)
09/22/05 03:58 PM
Re: New forum? new [re: diamondogz74]  

It certainly encourages my member.

Parenthood is the opiate of the masses!

Strawman
(acolyte)
09/22/05 04:17 PM
Re: New forum? new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

No matter what the subject matter, it wouldn't be so bad if this place with its majority alter egos weren't totally devoid of invention & humour - The one-track predictability of it all has gotten too monotonous.

Still, It's giving me a good excuse to get off the 'puter & my lazy arse Well, that & Shelle's health warnings.



Seriously though...

Beltene
(stardust savant)
09/22/05 07:01 PM
Re: New forum? new [re: FastChanges]  

There also must be a forum called Beltene's Pussy. You know I deserve the honour!

Share Zi Love

RabbitFighter
(acolyte)
09/22/05 08:08 PM
Re: Old Forum new [re: White Prism]  

Do you boys have a skullfuck forum? I could use one right now...

I'm spellbound, but a woman divides
And the hills are alive with celibate cries


poorsoul
(you will pay mr jones)
09/23/05 04:35 AM
Re: Members new [re: diamondogz74]  

In reply to:

We were informed by Claude that every click here made this site an income



Clicking on the ad banner at the top page generates (a very small) income. Replying needlessly to threads just consumes bandwidth and server space.

Thrush



FastChanges
(crash course raver)
09/23/05 04:42 AM
Re: New forum? new [re: Beltene]  

And another picture forum called All the Young Boobs

Parenthood is the opiate of the masses!

Rocknrollinbitch
(grinning soul)
09/23/05 06:24 AM
Re: New forum? new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

Why don't we have a 'Forum Forum' - a forum set up to decide how many fora there should be. Or should that be 'forums'.



diamondogz74
(freecloud)
09/23/05 10:53 AM
Re: New forum? new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

In reply to:

Yes, you are totally right, that is why everyone holds you in such high regard.


I come here to post and join in the fun, I also make more Bowie related posts/threads than certain others.

Why do you care what other members think of you? just be who you are, the place is rather like a school playground, one day you're so and so's friend the next day his rival, I post hopefully useful items, I am not here to impress anyone.

In reply to:

Which is why you probably reply to all of Claudes masturbatory posts.


You probably said this in the heat of the moment? so I shall ignore it's utter silliness


London Bye Ta-Ta...

Pablo-Picasso
(stardust savant)
09/23/05 11:09 AM
Re: New forum? new [re: diamondogz74]  

If i cared what others thought of me, I wouldn't be putting my neck on the line creating this thread. I do now believe that if I am going to make a post, at the very lease I can try and make one which is going to move the discussion on, and not just reply for the sake of it, or just to compliment someone on the post they have made above me.

But I am not going to change any small minded, stereotypical, clichéd posters' minds, be they real or alter egos. This place will be dead in six months anyway, so why should I care. Oh we may still have Shelle's sexual exploits and Claude's Art or Pornography thread still getting hits, but anyone with a semblence of credibility will be long gone. Which is a shame, because there are some good people here still, they are just overshadowed by the arseholes.

Wake up!.


diamondogz74
(freecloud)
09/23/05 11:28 AM
Re: New forum? new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

As long as the top half of the forum remains free of useless/countless sexual related posts! I see no problem with the crap threads in this section, It just seems to be the way it is, I really have no strong opinion on what others call fun.

Be careful of the friends you make on the way up, they will mock your downfall.

You say you do not come here to please/impress others with your posts/threads and you care not what they think of you, then why post this piece of hyporcritical nonsense about me?

In reply to:

Yes, you are totally right, that is why everyone holds you in such high regard.


If you don't care then why should I?

So you are saying that you are held in high regard?

Blinkers off please.


London Bye Ta-Ta...

Pablo-Picasso
(stardust savant)
09/23/05 12:07 PM
Re: New forum? new [re: diamondogz74]  

Anthony, I have had conversations with you off the board, via email and pms, I know you are more eloquent than how you are portrayed on the board, so why let yourself be seen as something you are not?

It is nothing to do with how people regard me, it is to do with how I regard myself, and I know that I can quite easily swim with the plankton, I would just prefer not to.

Anyway, the plankton can have the coffee shop, I have no interest anymore.

Wake up!.


GodlessWonder
(kook)
09/23/05 02:51 PM
Re: New forum? new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

Personally, I blame David Bowie. Clearly we've got nothing to fill the time inbetween albums, so all the sexual threads are passing the time. I suppose.

But I support DD74 and Pablo here. Well said boyz.

" I'm looking for backing for an unauthorized auto-biography that I am writing. Hopefully, this will sell in such huge numbers that I will be able to sue myself for an extraordinary amount of money"- David Bowie

diamondogz74
(freecloud)
09/23/05 03:35 PM
Re: New forum? new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

In reply to:

so why let yourself be seen as something you are not?


There are times when we are all guilty of being a tad Jekyll & Hyde on these boards, It's how others make you feel at times, good grief I don't even swear in the real world and on here of late I've been doing it too much and I don't like that aspect of myself at all.

In reply to:

It is nothing to do with how people regard me, it is to do with how I regard myself, and I know that I can quite easily swim with the plankton, I would just prefer not to.


I know that and I agree 100% with you, I suppose it's lack of Bowie related information? how wonderful that we had Bowie performing live twice recently and the threads had some good posts, thankfully they were not hijacked by crap sexual posts.

In reply to:

Anyway, the plankton can have the coffee shop, I have no interest anymore.


Then that is a great pity Alan because you are a very witty man and with good knowledge of many subjects and you always play fairly, I would call you along with Tristan one of the gentlemen of TW, there are others but names allude me at present.

In reply to:

But I support DD74 and Pablo here. Well said boyz.


If you mean that sincerely? I thank you.




London Bye Ta-Ta...

Monkeyboy
(acolyte)
09/23/05 03:50 PM
Re: New forum? new [re: diamondogz74]  

In reply to:

I also make more Bowie related posts/threads than certain others.


You make more posts than others, period.

Send help and they might tapdance for you.

planocraft
(wide eyed peoploid)
09/23/05 06:46 PM
Re: New forum? new [re: diamondogz74]  

In reply to:

Pablo-Picasso:

Yes, you are totally right, that is why everyone holds you in such high regard.


In reply to:

DDgz74:

Be careful of the friends you make on the way up, they will mock your downfall.


Armagiddeon Time!

What’s this? The king of brown-nosing and sucking-up, Pablo-Picasso, and the queen of inane drivel, DDgz74, having a SPAT??? Bitching at each other???

OMG, the Mormons were right - the end times are near! Dogs and cats, the lion and the lamb will be laying together. What’s that sound? Swords being beaten into plowshares or the approach of the four horsemen? Be afraid people, be very afraid.

In reply to:

Pablo-Picasso:

Anyway, the plankton can have the coffee shop, I have no interest anymore.


All together now:

Oh happy day!
Oh happy day!
When Jesus washed.
Oh when Jesus washed.
My sins away.


Repent folks. It’s the apocalypse!

In reply to:

GodlessWonder:

But I support DD74 and Pablo here. Well said boyz.


They’re disagreeing with each other, you moron.

In reply to:

DDgz74:

Then that is a great pity Alan because you are a very witty man and with good knowledge of many subjects and you always play fairly, I would call you along with Tristan one of the gentlemen of TW, there are others but names allude me at present.


Your posts are just getting funnier and funnier, DDgz74. I hope you don’t do a Pablo and quit Coffee Shop forever. It eludes me as to where we’d garner such great laughs from if you were to depart for pastures new.



diamondogz74
(freecloud)
09/24/05 07:59 AM
Re: New forum? new [re: planocraft]  

In reply to:

They’re disagreeing with each other, you moron.


Not at all we are discussing matters of TW, we do not need to be cruel/nasty to get a point across, that system is for morons.

In reply to:

Your posts are just getting funnier and funnier, DDgz74. I hope you don’t do a Pablo and quit Coffee Shop forever.


A mystery?


London Bye Ta-Ta...

JamieSim
(kook)
09/24/05 09:05 AM
Why do you have it in for Pablo? new [re: planocraft]  

planocraft why do you have it in for Pablo, I can only speak for myself but when I joined he made me very welcome and I think that goes for a lot of us.

Here’s just a few of your posts I found -

What’s this? The king of brown-nosing and sucking-up, Pablo-Picasso, and the queen of inane drivel, DDgz74, having a SPAT??? Bitching at each other???

Your posts are just getting funnier and funnier, DDgz74. I hope you don’t do a Pablo and quit Coffee Shop forever. It eludes me as to where we’d garner such great laughs from if you were to depart for pastures new.

think NDP already answered that one with “which is why you're still stuck at home cleaning your Mum's bum at the tax payer's expense.”

Seriously though, it wouldn't be hard, if anyone could be bothered to wade through the 14 billion posts that you've made in your short tenure in these hallowed halls, to identify numerous examples of your brown-nosing activity.

Hey, that sounds like an idea for a crap thread: Your ten favourite Pablo-Picasso brown-nosing posts


Nothing better to do Mr Craft?



planocraft
(wide eyed peoploid)
09/24/05 09:31 AM
Re: Why do you have it in for Pablo? new [re: JamieSim]  

In reply to:

Nothing better to do Mr Craft?


Everyone needs a hobby, Mr Simpson.

Jamie, you’ve been a member at TW since 8/10/04 and have made 285 posts in that time. That’s an average of about 5.7 posts per week, a little under 1 per day.

Mr Picasso has been a member at TW since 18/7/04 and has made 1676 posts in that time. I think he was a member before that, but for some reason was unable to log in under his old log-in name at some point just over a year ago (TW glitch) and so had to create a new, though unimaginatively similar, one. Still, working with what we've got, with this new login that’s an average of 28.9 posts per week, a little more than 4 per day.

I don’t really know the quality of your posts, but it’s hard to miss the quality of his, given their ubiquity. The only thing that can be said for them is that they’re not quite as inane as his soul brother/soul sister, DDgz74 (whose stats are probably much higher – I daren’t look).

The thing is that he has (in fact both of them have) the gall to complain about other people's posting habits when the vast majority of his/their posts are worthless tedium. If they could manage to be funny, or ironic, or entertaining or amusing it wouldn't be so bad. Even if they could manage a decent level of cynicism or sarcasm, it might be OK. But tedious inanity is less than satisfying. Do you see?



diamondogz74
(freecloud)
09/24/05 09:42 AM
Re: Why do you have it in for Pablo? new [re: planocraft]  

In reply to:

DDgz74 (whose stats are probably much higher – I daren’t look).


Go on live dangerously and take a lil peek.

In reply to:

complain about other people's posting habits


Point out where I have complained of others posting habits please? apart from the obvious crap posts we all make, yes even you darling

In reply to:

Even if they could manage a decent level of cynicism or sarcasm


But you are neither of these two categories, you are just plain rude and obnoxious of late.

Now be a good citizen or I might just expose who you really are





London Bye Ta-Ta...

planocraft
(wide eyed peoploid)
09/24/05 09:49 AM
Re: Why do you have it in for Pablo? new [re: diamondogz74]  

In reply to:

Now be a good citizen or I might just expose who you really are


Go ahead, do your worst. Of the 83 trillion posts you've made, this is the first time you've managed to intrigue me. There may be hope for you yet. No, only joking.



GiuIia
(mortal with potential)
09/24/05 10:24 AM
Re: New forum? new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

I like the sex forum!




----------------
Giulia

Pablo-Picasso
(stardust savant)
09/24/05 11:01 AM
Re: Why do you have it in for Pablo? new [re: planocraft]  

Nothing to do with being unimaginative using a similar login I'm afraid, the idea behind it was continuity, if the original login had not had problems, I would still be on it. At least it is not some sort of pathetic attempt at anonynimity that you are so fond of. Unimaginative you say, do you mean like stealing other people's names Mr Planocraft? That was pretty unimaginative wasn't it? I wonder, is it the first time you have tried to steal other people's identities I wonder?

It is sad that you should choose to jump on the bandwagon that Nonentityplume started, considering in all my posts (of which you appear to be an expert on) I don't think I have ever had any need to complain about you (at least under this alter ego), whether I have under another of your names, I am not sure. Perhaps I have, I know of one person you might have been. Nevertheless, I have always found you amusing, sad then that you should choose to attack me, not to worry though, after all it is only the internet, and all you seem to be doing is duplicating other people's arguments against me, so not only can you not think of an original login, you also cannot find an original argument.

But as you say, everyone needs a hobby, I should be honoured I suppose.



A side note to nomdeplume, if brown-nosing means being polite and friendly to people, then I guess I am guilty, maybe I was just brought up better than you. At least I am honest, unlike you and Plano who hide behind a screen of anonymity.



planocraft
(wide eyed peoploid)
09/24/05 11:15 AM
Re: Why do you have it in for Pablo? new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

But you've quit Coffee Shop for good, right?



Pablo-Picasso
(stardust savant)
09/24/05 11:20 AM
Re: Why do you have it in for Pablo? new [re: planocraft]  

Um, sorry, I thought this was Site Feedback?



planocraft
(wide eyed peoploid)
09/24/05 11:27 AM
Re: Why do you have it in for Pablo? new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

Uh, sorry, I'm looking for some feedback on the intention that you expressed earlier in...uh, Site Feedback.



NomDePlume
(kook)
09/24/05 01:21 PM
Re: Why do you have it in for Pablo? new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

In reply to:

At least I am honest, unlike you and Plano who hide behind a screen of anonymity


What garbage you spout. Has your gene pool been so diluted with years of crossbreeding with sheep?

Giving out your real name on the Internet is not the same thing as being honest. I'm honest because I always say exactly what I think. You're dishonest because you don't. You're dishonest because you think it's okay to invade other people's boards and behave in a way you don't want to tolerate here.

There are many other things that make you dishonest, Pablo/Alan, but to be honest I couldn't be arsed to point them out.

Anonymity is anonymity, not dishonesty. In fact, the great thing about anonymity is it allows you to be honest at all times without fear of repercussion.

""Looking for love, not sex" -- the tagline of many a troll who doesn't believe they are worthy or capable of sex in its own right, but god, the thought of carrying that sort of middling self-esteem all the way to 36 is disturbing."

Pablo-Picasso
(stardust savant)
09/24/05 01:58 PM
Re: Why do you have it in for Pablo? new [re: NomDePlume]  

In reply to:

Has your gene pool been so diluted with years of crossbreeding with sheep?


Oh I applaud your wit, I come from Wales, I shag sheep, so please tell me, how long did it take for you to come up with this most excellent of jokes?

I think you will find that the invasion of APFFN was less than a week, yet some of the posters who frequent this board have been posting the same rubbish for months. To be honest, by the end of the APFFN thing, I was already getting bored by it, so how people can purposely do it for so long is amazing to me. However, each to their own, I was only trying to show that as far as I was concerned, these people could be better than that, I thought that they were capable of more, if I am wrong then I am glad I don't know them in reality.

Regarding the anonymity/dishonesty debate, you are of course right, it is not a question of dishonesty, you said "the great thing about anonymity is it allows you to be honest at all times without fear of repercussion." This of course, is true, you are not dishonest at all, you are in fact a coward, because you are not prepared to let people know you, so they cannot use it against you. I wonder what your opening passage would have been to me, if you had not known I was Welsh, for instance.

Oh and one final point, I am not deflated by any means by anything you have said, maybe if you could argue about the original topic, rather than thinking it is clever just to throw personal insults I might think more about what you say.

Anyway Nom, I have wasted enough time on you, more than enough actually.



Starlite
(stardust savant)
09/24/05 02:42 PM
Re: New forum? new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

Pablo, I understand your frustration, but I don't think creating a different forum would work.

Most people here, from what I've seen, like talking about sex. In fact, they find it very entertaining, and make sex references whenever they can.

I know that you mean threads that are basically devoid of any content other than one-liners about pantycolor and such, but even outside of those, sex talk is what runs Coffeeshop.

I do think the bozoing-in-specific-fora idea is interesting, though.

I'm also monumentally bored by Beltene's shtick, but she seems to have a rather large fan contigent, so I don't know, I just assume there must be something there I don't get and try to move on.

I will say that I don't think the sex threads keep anyone from registering. Heck, they probably spur a few lonely teenagers on. But what does improve the board is not so much trying to stomp out certain topics--just because that's impossible--as starting new and interesting discussions on other topics. Really, if a thread is fun enough, it won't let itself be hijacked.

diamondogz74
(freecloud)
09/24/05 03:40 PM
Re: Why do you have it in for Pablo? new [re: planocraft]  

In reply to:

Go ahead, do your worst. Of the 83 trillion posts you've made


All in my own good time my little number crunching sweety [pucker]

In reply to:

this is the first time you've managed to intrigue me


Nice to see you being less of a windbag, at least with this alter anyway

In reply to:

only joking


LOL!




London Bye Ta-Ta...

NomDePlume
(kook)
09/25/05 07:07 AM
Pablo = pablum new [re: Pablo-Picasso]  

In reply to:

I think you will find that the invasion of APFFN was less than a week, yet some of the posters who frequent this board have been posting the same rubbish for months.


That's your best defence? "I didn't do it all that long"?

In reply to:

you are in fact a coward, because you are not prepared to let people know you


Again, you're talking absolute rubbish. I've probably revealed more personal details than you have. I've revealed at different times my age, my marital status, my nationality, my profession, the fact that my wife is pregnant with our first kid, some sexual foibles and my personal opinions on a wide range of matters. The fact that I choose not to link them to my real life name and address doesn't change that.

""Looking for love, not sex" -- the tagline of many a troll who doesn't believe they are worthy or capable of sex in its own right, but god, the thought of carrying that sort of middling self-esteem all the way to 36 is disturbing."


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