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Persilot
(acolyte)
01/29/07 10:04 PM
The Big Custom Title Fiasco Debate  

To be honest I'm not entirely sure at what point I became so obsessed with this issue. What initially began as me having a drunken whinge one Friday night has now become something of a bugbear with me. I want to have a proper discussion about it, then forget the whole thing and never have to speak of it again (except for maybe in years to come over a glass of brandy and a pair of slippers).

Right. My major complaints over this issue are twofold. Firstly, there have been major inconsistencies in the way people have got their custom titles, and secondly, I think the entire system needs to be examined as I think 5000 posts is too much to expect in this age of limited Bowie output, reduced posters and time served.

Anyway I think it would be helpful if we could do the following… (Some of this may be going over ground already covered, but I’d like to draw everything together here in a coherent way for ease of discussion.)

1) I'd like to hear from the mods what their views on the issue are. I'd like them to explain how they justify giving some people and not others titles before their time and why they felt it was acceptable to do so then and yet no longer. I’d also like to know if they have any consensus on the issue between them or if we’re dealing with “Loose cannon moderating” here. What’s the official line?
2) I'd like to hear from those already with custom titles on their views on the matter. Having had to make 5000 posts, do they feel it's only fair others should do so too? Do they actually give a shite? Are they already annoyed that some people bypassed the system?
3) What does everyone else think? Are there people who feel they deserve a title and if so why? Are there any suggestions of how we could establish a fairer system? Do you have any comments or observations on the issue? Do you think I’m a whinging fartbox who should shut the hell up? Feel free to express your views.

So let the debate commence. Lets get to the bottom of this issue.

You sit there in your comfort, you don't believe I'm real. But you cannot buy protection from the way that I feel!

Wraith2
(killer in chic)
01/29/07 10:23 PM
Wall Street Years: Revisited new [re: Persilot]  

First off, I think we all just need to acknowledge that the reason I got a custom title out of turn is that I'm awesome. More awesome, perhaps, than any other person at any other point in history.

Second, I think getting pissed at K for breaking the rules misses the point. The rules are a thinly stretched veneer over a giant fucking blob of chaos and nonsense. Pretty much everything about the way this site is run is completely arbitrary. It's kind of like the U.S. legal system: everyone pretends its a functional system, but it's actually completely indeterminate.

The mods are going to use their powers haphazardly because they can't even agree what the rules are between themselves, much less between all of us. Sometimes this will take the form of a Dogz ban and sometimes it's going to be the unfair awarding of a custom title.

You know who else makes creatures? Satan.

96dbFreak
(acolyte)
01/29/07 10:49 PM
Re: The Big Custom Title Fiasco Debate new [re: Persilot]  

I can’t, to be honest, be bothered to read through all this shite to answer my question, so I’ll just ask you directly - have you actually asked for a custom title and been refused one or is this (and this) just your roundabout way of asking for one (i.e. by complaining that 5000 posts is too many, hoping they’ll take pity on you and just offer you one)?

Given that your whinge may result in you getting a custom title, what will it be (I’m assuming it’s going to be something to do with drink)?

(raise your glass high), perhaps?

Stu
Get Bowie Back Downunder


KModerator
(thunder ocean)
01/30/07 04:35 AM
Re: The Big Custom Title Fiasco Debate new [re: Persilot]  

Well, here's my thoughts on the whole deal:

1) When we started out handing custom titles "prematurely", it seemed like a fair thing to give ones to users who have been here a long time and are important contributors. However, what we didn't realise is that actually most posters active these days are ones who've been here for half a dozen years, so by that logic a large number of users would actually deserve a custom title... which, at least in my opinion would pretty much make the whole point of the "special award" of a custom title moot.

As a result of the above, there was a conversation on this subject in the Mods forum on 18/08/06 between myself, EJ and Ohro where we decided that no more custom titles would be handed out prematurely.

2) As the first user to actually get a custom title after making 5000 posts (and actually the person who opened this whole can of worms by suggesting people with over 5000 posts should get a custom title to start with), I do think people shouldn't get custom titles if they've made less than 5000 posts. No matter how good or valued posters they are. The titles have absolutely no relevance to quality, only quantity (I mean, me and Claude were the first people to pass the limit and we both have spent most of our time in TW posting crap). You should be proud of having title that gives away you have made a relatively small number of posts.

Q: What's the difference between Michael Jackson and a plastic bag?
A: One is made of plastic and is dangerous to kids, while the other is used to carry your groceries home.


White Prism
(stardust savant)
01/30/07 04:43 AM
Why I love K new [re: K]  

A very sensible response.

Now all you have to do to rectify the situation is remove all the 'premature' titles you've handed out and replace them with acolytes or stardust savants or whatever, until the magical 5,000 is reached for every individual.

Mormons are the worst because, much like telemarketers, they're not allowed to fuck off until you tell them to. -- Wraith2

Monkeyboy
(band intro)
01/30/07 05:52 AM
Ego Tripping new [re: K]  

Alright, there's no way to say this without sounding like I'm totally up my own ass but here goes: if I was denied the request of a premature custom title I don't think anyone deserves one.

You know it's true.

Please visit my Message Board so I can ban you.

Kirk
(acolyte)
01/30/07 05:53 AM
Re: The Big Custom Title Fiasco Debate new [re: Persilot]  

Custom titles might be special if they meant something. But having a dozen posters with various custom titles really takes away any 'specialness' that they might have.

There are more users with custom titles right now than there were 'acolytes' when I threw in the TW towel a couple of years ago. Why not just a standard title for high numbers, and perhaps a custom title for very special posters who have contributed a lot to the board.

I say it is and it's true

Starlite
(acolyte)
01/30/07 06:29 AM
Re: The Big Custom Title Fiasco Debate new [re: K]  

In reply to:

kind of like the U.S. legal system


I would think you'd be on the side of the critics then, Wraithy! Since when do you defend arbitrary authority? Is a custom title of your own all it takes to gain your loyalty to the masters? I, unlike you, stand up for the dispossesed!

In reply to:

The rules are a thinly stretched veneer over a giant fucking blob of chaos and nonsense. Pretty much everything about the way this site is run is completely arbitrary.


In which case the mods should admit that they're just playing favorites and not doing any sort of "duty," and they won't give Persilot or JarethsGirl custom titles because they just don't like them enough. Or are sexist.

In reply to:

it seemed like a fair thing to give ones to users who have been here a long time and are important contributors.


Exactly. So all you did is make it seem like others who've been here just as long as some of the out-of-turn kids weren't up to your personal importance standards. Especially since some people were randomly turned down for early titles despite their being well known contributors (Monkeyboy) and others were granted titles despite hardly ever being on anymore (dice, Wraith2, some other people I can't even remember).

In reply to:

The titles have absolutely no relevance to quality, only quantity


This directly contradicts what you just said before.

But if this is to hold true, I back up WP's suggestion of stripping all prematurely given titles until such a date as the posters concerned actually reach the necessary quantity.



Strawman
(chameleon, comedian, corinthian and caricature)
01/30/07 07:44 AM
Re: The Big Custom Title Fiasco Debate new [re: Persilot]  

Percy?

I really do feel it's time for you to actively seek employment.



KModerator
(thunder ocean)
01/30/07 09:56 AM
Re: The Big Custom Title Fiasco Debate new [re: Starlite]  

In reply to:

In which case the mods should admit that they're just playing favorites and not doing any sort of "duty,"


How many times does this need to be repeated? Yes, we were playing favourites. Then we decided it wasn't fair and made a rule. After the rule was made we've all followed it. What you're suggesting is that we forget about the rule ans start playing favourites again.

In reply to:

Exactly. So all you did is make it seem like others who've been here just as long as some of the out-of-turn kids weren't up to your personal importance standards. Especially since some people were randomly turned down for early titles despite their being well known contributors (Monkeyboy) and others were granted titles despite hardly ever being on anymore (dice, Wraith2, some other people I can't even remember).


In the case of dice I must point out that he had had two accounts, and Adam decided that the total posting numbers of both his accounts were combined for the custom title limit (we also agreed to do the same with Pablo although I'm not sure if it was ever carried out).

In reply to:

This directly contradicts what you just said before.


Read what I said: titles have absolutely no relevance to quality. Ignore the deliriously poor grammar (in my defence, I was in a hurry and nearly missed my first lecture today because of that post). I was referring to the title system in general, not just the custom ones.

In reply to:

But if this is to hold true, I back up WP's suggestion of stripping all prematurely given titles until such a date as the posters concerned actually reach the necessary quantity.


In addition to my being reluctant to retroactively apply current rules to decisions made before the rules were created, this also has a technical problem: to my understanding, once a user is given a custom title any title given to him afterwards is treated as a custom one by the software and hence the user is stuck with it. Which is something of a problem with the stardust savants, as they'll be stuck with that title even when they pass the acolyte status unless manually changed.

Q: What's the difference between Michael Jackson and a plastic bag?
A: One is made of plastic and is dangerous to kids, while the other is used to carry your groceries home.



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