Teenage Wildlife

IMPORTANT: Use your registry nickname as your username when logging in to Conversation Piece!


Free for All
   >> Site Douchebag
Thread views: 6907 Previous threadView all threads**Threaded Mode

Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | (show all)
Auntie Prism
(stardust savant)
01/12/11 02:37 PM
Where have all the women gone? [re: ]  

If you use the 7- day display on Conversation Piece, you will notice that there have been 13 posters in the last week. Of these, 12 are male and 1 is female. (I'm assuming, here, that Lizz is the latter, although I do not know her.) The male/female split has become increasingly obvious over the past year. Given that the site's statistics show that males and females signed up in roughly equal numbers, why has this disparity developed?

The answer, I'm afraid, raises troubling issues about how the site has been run. Before someone argues, inanely, that the combative nature of TW conflicts with the female character, or some such, let me remind you that some of my favourite female posters were never shy to engage in vituperative debates, among them Wildwind, Anisette, Starlite, JarethsGirl, Glitterbot, Ohramona, Shelle, Beltene, etc. to name but a few. The problem is not that women did not sign up, but that they have left.

Although subtle, I believe the answer lies in the institutionalised sexism of the board's Admin & Moderators. I was among the first to point out in this thread, along with Starlite, that those posters who were frequently rewarded with early customised titles and more routine forms of praise were young, white males. (Among them, Dukewhite, Dice, Phoenix, and Wraith2.) The upshot here is that, despite applying themselves equally well, female posters did not feel as valued or as included in the community. It comes as no surprise that they would be among the first to leave and move on. The males named in my post were no doubt inured to their frequent abusing of their privilege to petition the powers that be for favours (they all felt that they deserved their custom titles early—and they all accepted them, of course), rather like the guy who successfully haggles for a rise in the workplace on the basis of his imaginary achievements while discarding the achievements of his more patient colleagues.

In short, the hierarchy of posters has effectively silenced most females, through title-ism, through the Mr. TW competitions (never won by a female),* or through other forms of approbation, encouragement or, simply, engagement with its preferred poster demographic.

< Not even joking.

*Although not run exclusively by moderators, the mods nevertheless could take part. Also, female posters no doubt sensed greater complications about 'whoring' themselves for votes compared to their male counterparts.



ziggfried
(acolyte)
01/13/11 05:32 PM
Re: Where have all the women gone? new [re: Auntie Prism]  



"Hey, where are the white women at?"



ohramonaModerator
(acolyte)
01/13/11 08:56 PM
excuse me your penis is in the way new [re: Auntie Prism]  

In reply to:

(never won by a female),*


I came close though, dint I?

I forget, are you a girl or a boy?



let them eat opiate

Auntie Prism
(stardust savant)
01/14/11 04:56 PM
Electioneering new [re: ohramona]  

Indeed you did. I recall you lost narrowly to one of the two finalists, although I can barely remember any of the results except my own. (My victories are here withheld, with characteristic modesty.)

But the point is, if we were to imagine a re-run of the Mr/Ms TW competition split along male/female lines, using the names I mentioned above, it's difficult to see any of the holders of early customised titles beating their female 'equivalents'.

For example, while Dukewhite was something of a Bowie specialist, his frequent forays into humour couldn't match yours or anisette's. (1) Dice started many interesting threads on music and politics, yet his arguments lacked the explanatory force of a Wildwind or Starlite. (2) Ditto Glitterbot, for that matter. And arguably, she was more successful than Wraith in delivering pithy putdowns of Stu. (3) Similarly, there's something of Phoenix's whimsical humour in JarethsGirl, although I suspect that Phoenix is the only 'earlytitler' who had a realistic chance of beating anyone listed above. (4)

Still, the fact remains that TW is now more male-dominated than ever before--something that is arguably a legacy of seeing male role models doing so well and receiving more attention on the boards.

* * * * *

A serious question: does anyone remember how the pairings were decided in the competition? I think at first it was by nationality, and certain countries had a couple of groups because of their size. But I remember beating a certain Australian in the quarter finals, who may or may not have posted on this thread, so how was the knockout stage decided?


1) I assume DW entered the 2005/6 competition but fell early. Yet, because of the Dogzian overtones, his near-entangment of TW in a lawsuit (following his leaking of Heathen) loses him critical points.

2) The fact that I believe Starlite still has compromising photographs of yours truly in tights that must be contained at all costs has no bearing on my generous comments.

3) G-bot gave me one of my first compliments at TW, describing me as awesome, or suchlike. Again, this has not coloured my comments.

4) Because Phoenix destroyed me in the semifinal of the Mr/Ms TW competition, I sensibly conclude that he is unbeatable. But maybe JG could beat him. Who knows?



ohramonaModerator
(acolyte)
01/14/11 06:08 PM
Next time I'll play the cancer card new [re: Auntie Prism]  

Stu cheated.



let them eat opiate

Auntie Prism
(stardust savant)
01/14/11 06:43 PM
All the puppies have departed too new [re: ohramona]  

In reply to:

Stu cheated.


Yeah, the summary version.

Anyway, this thread isn't quite working. I sense I need to become meaner and more accusatory, but I'm too nice and forgiving nowadays.



Patches
(stardust savant)
01/14/11 08:02 PM
Re: Where have all the women gone? new [re: Auntie Prism]  

In reply to:

Auntie Prism:
you use the 7- day display on Conversation Piece, you will notice that there have been 13 posters in the last week. Of these, 12 are male and 1 is female. (I'm assuming, here, that Lizz is the latter, although I do not know her.) The male/female split has become increasingly obvious over the past year. Given that the site's statistics show that males and females signed up in roughly equal numbers, why has this disparity developed?


Um, excuse me, dear old Ms. Prism... did you lump me in the boys?

In reply to:

The answer, I'm afraid, raises troubling issues about how the site has been run. Before someone argues, inanely, that the combative nature of TW conflicts with the female character, or some such, let me remind you that some of my favourite female posters were never shy to engage in vituperative debates, among them Wildwind, Anisette, Starlite, JarethsGirl, Glitterbot, Ohramona, Shelle, Beltene, etc. to name but a few. The problem is not that women did not sign up, but that they have left.


I'm still standing (to quote Elton John).



_____________________________________
Jareth's speech: Love Me, Fear Me, Do as I say, and I will be your slave. Heathen track: Show me who you are And I would be your slave
Coincidence? I think not.

ziggfried
(acolyte)
01/14/11 10:51 PM
Re: Electioneering new [re: Auntie Prism]  

In reply to:

I remember beating a certain Australian in the quarter finals, who may or may not have posted on this thread


I think you knocked me out in the quarter finals, then either PHOENIX or Dara knocked you out in the semis. Dunno who faced off against either PHOENIX or Dara in the other semi, but the grand final was PHOENIX vs Dara, and Dara won. My memory isn't what it used to be, but I think the entire Earth was destroyed.



Auntie Prism
(stardust savant)
01/15/11 04:39 AM
This is in the running … new [re: ziggfried]  

… for most off-topic thread ever. Never mind.

In reply to:

[Patches] Um, excuse me, dear old Ms. Prism... did you lump me in the boys?


Yes, I did. I may have been confusing you with another long-term, under-the-radar commenter, so apologies. With a name like Patches, though, I'm in slight shock that you are in fact human, and not some shaggy-haired sheepdog.

In reply to:

I'm still standing (to quote Elton John).


This correction means that at the time of the original post, the male-female split was 12-2, which hardly tips the balance. Needless to say, I'm not taking any individual poster stepping up to the plate, waving Cooey!, as evidence that the overall trend have been bucked.

But on to more important matters:

In reply to:

[Ziggfried] I think you knocked me out in the quarter finals, then either PHOENIX or Dara knocked you out in the semis. Dunno who faced off against either PHOENIX or Dara in the other semi, but the grand final was PHOENIX vs Dara, and Dara won.


I beat Twister by the odd vote in the last 16, and then you by two votes, iirc. Phoenix thrashed me by something like 17-7 in the semis. (I'm not sure who I eliminated before Twister, but given that he/she was British, probably Pablo or JamieSim … one of that crowd.)

I think Ohramona might have narrowly lost to Monkeyboy in her quarter final. Monkeyboy lost in the other semi to Dara.

Some very faint recollections are resurfacing:
Did Dara beat Anisette in their quarterfinal?
Did Marquis lose to Rabbitfighter?



Emil
(acolyte)
01/15/11 05:12 AM
Re: Where have all the women gone? new [re: Auntie Prism]  

First we need to examine whether the premises for this discussion are correct! I did a not-so scientifically sound comparison by typing in some random passwords ("rasta" and "Rolling stones"), picking four threads each from the years 2003 and 2009 and counting posts (not individuals) from female posters. The result -
2003: 17 girl posts out of 62
2009: 7 girl posts out of 100
The results may have been skewed by "Rolling Stones" bringing up a list thread from 2009 -- perhaps attracting more males? -- and "rasta" bringing up a concert thread from 2003 [it's part of an url address, ultrastar something] which might have drawn more females.

Still, prism, your theory that girls fled the boards because they didn't get custom titles seems just a little bit on the tenuous side. I think the answer is to be found in that the boards changed character, which may also be connected to the steadily declining activity. Perhaps it's more difficult to exercise female posting patterns (of which behavioral scientists have a lot to say) when the total population drops below some certain threshold value or... perhaps I'm just rambling.

It's SAILER, idiot!

Patches
(stardust savant)
01/15/11 02:39 PM
Re: This is in the running … new [re: Auntie Prism]  

It's okay you lumped me in with the boys. My screen name is rather androgyneously animal.

_____________________________________
Jareth's speech: Love Me, Fear Me, Do as I say, and I will be your slave. Heathen track: Show me who you are And I would be your slave
Coincidence? I think not.

Quills
(kook)
01/15/11 04:46 PM
Re: Where have all the women gone? new [re: Auntie Prism]  

How can you be sure they were actual women of the female gender?

I went to a restaurant that serves 'breakfast at any time'. So I ordered French Toast during the Renaissance.


KAdministrator
(thunder ocean)
01/15/11 05:58 PM
Re: Where have all the women gone? new [re: Quills]  

The same token, how can you be certain the men were actual men of the male gender?

Trololololololololololololololololo

Auntie Prism
(stardust savant)
01/15/11 06:50 PM
TW is structured around posters' street cred new [re: Emil]  

Thank you for addressing the issue head-on, Emil.

Of course, I doubt whether anyone cares overly much about whether they have a title or not. Rather, I chose this criteria because it's data that can be counted easily: male posters have been more effective in eliciting favours from Mods (just as I imagine they may have accumulated more PMs, or mix CDs, or whatever from other TWers). All this creates an environment particularly hospitable to them.

It's quite possible that TWers have always covertly favoured male posters, for whatever reason, although it would be silly to attempt to gauge whether this is true by asking posters directly whether they preferred male or female posters.

Yet any small, pre-existing bias may have been exacerbated by codifying these preferences into the titles system. Perhaps TWers used to have a silent preference for male posters, but the titles give visible, overt markers of status. Formerly, the boards may have been a receptacle of any tacit male preference (a certain poster writing an opinion about another in a post), but now the boards perpetrate it actively. It's carried beyond the poster's message, into the name display, making the boards themselves sexist.

Once visible, these two factors create a vicious circle, each causing the other, and forcing the male/female disparity to widen to the degree we see today. So it's not quite as crude as 'girls fled the boards because they didn't get custom titles'.

Personally, I experience feelings of gross inadequacy when I stumble across the classic alpha-male 'wise like orang-utan' title. It's practically browbeating. 'Band intro', similarly, carries almost totemic significance, with it being such a popular song in our community.

That said, what I need is someone who was in charge of handing out titles, who is not liable to fly off the handle in discussions about gender …

Adam, what have you to say for yourself?



Emil
(acolyte)
01/18/11 06:24 AM
Re: TW is postured around plasters' streed creed new [re: Auntie Prism]  

WP, I think your post title said it well. We all tacitly value male posters higher, and your thesis is that the mods made that systematic and thus discouraged the female quality posters. Interesting theory, although the passage

In reply to:

It's carried beyond the poster's message, into the name display, making the boards themselves sexist


reads like something that could have been published in the journal Social Text in the nineties.
May I add that I never got my custom title. But then again I'm an old man.

So what I offered could be taken as a complementary or additional explanation. Really, what I am after is the (somehwat cloudy) idea that females are known to have different posting habits, more social networking than info exchange (although WW claims to be an exception to that rule - very possible), and perhaps such patterns work better on busy message boards. Looking at the MBs I frequent myself, I think I can see the rule "more crowded, more girls".
So perhaps when TW thinned out, girls felt even more strongly that it wasn't for them. But this theory is not very well underpinned, I feel.

Lastly, I must agree that band intro is such an obvious display of masculinity - but I though he earned it rightfully by number of posts??

It's SAILER, idiot!

KAdministrator
(thunder ocean)
01/18/11 04:49 PM
Re: TW is postured around plasters' streed creed new [re: Emil]  

As a question (to which I honestly do not know the ansver myself), how many users were actually granted premature custom titles and what's their number compared to users who actually earned their titles by spewing out over 5000 posts? I remember granting only one, to Ohramona at her request not five minutes ago. Because, statistically speaking, it doesn't make much of a case if the number of people who were granted early custom titles is very small. it could just as easily be a conincidence. (I thik the theory is actually fairly good, but as things stand there doesn't seem to be too much proof).

Two contributions I might be able to offer:

1 - It's possible that the average female poster is better-respected than the average male poster but they are not nescessarily better liked. From a purely personal point-of-view, if I had to choose my favourite posters as persons the list would be predominantly if not exclusively male. But if I had to choose the best posters (in terms of quality) the list would be more equally divided, maybe even female-dominated. Since it takes a certain amount of courage to request a custom title, it's possible that female users have been less incluned to do so as they don't nescessarily consider themselves to be in as good terms with the moderators (the majority of which are also males) than the male users.

2 - TW has always had something of a rough culture where it's ok to insult people for fun and generally be less politically correct than on other boards. From my personal experience with the TWers whom I know in real life it does seem that this is what has driven female posters away from the boards. My impression is also that this masculine behaviour pattern amongst the posters generally became more prominent around the same time as the board's activity started decreasing. Therefore it could be a double effect of less general board activity of which a larger portion is masculine activity that to me would seem to drive away females.

3 (bonus point) - How could a site named "Teenage Wildlife" not be sexist?

Trololololololololololololololololo

Auntie Prism
(stardust savant)
01/20/11 06:56 PM
S.C.U.M. new [re: K]  

In reply to:

[Emil] Really, what I am after is the (somewhat cloudy) idea that females are known to have different posting habits, more social networking than info exchange.


I suppose this loose 'rule' would differ depending on the particular nature of the message board in question. But the distinction you make between social networking and info exchange appears to counteract K's first point, which I thought was well made. K's first point is that the males at TW were particularly effective in befriending the admin and moderators—i.e. that they excelled in social networking—thus availing themselves more favourable social ties than their female counterparts. (Yes, the pseudo-Social Text jargon is baiting. )

(A small correction to one of my previous posts: JarethsGirl did receive an early title, and I think was the only female to do so. But, to redress the male/female balance, I omitted p2c's title, (cook), which was also granted early, albeit because someone was caught tinkering with his profile, iirc.)

This is quite a boring question, but I thought that Ohramona could give out titles--I thought she was responsible for the (cook)--so can she not give herself one, so to speak?

As for K's second point:

In reply to:

TW has always had something of a rough culture where it's ok to insult people for fun and generally be less politically correct than on other boards. From my personal experience with the TWers whom I know in real life it does seem that this is what has driven female posters away from the boards.


Perhaps you have in mind SugarPlumFairy, who I think is the only female to earn her title by reaching the 5,000 post target. But for every SPF (who, to her credit, never winged or complained about the arguments publicly on the board) there's a PabloPicasso (who certainly complained & threatened to sue), or a Diamond_Dave, or a TJ Newton. I'm not convinced that TW women are averse to having it 'rough' (sorry, there's no other way of phrasing that without passing over it in awkward silence), as evidenced by those named in my original post.

Speaking of Diamond_Dave, however, this post now turns to its darker purpose, concerning a subject I only properly understood today. When I first joined TW I was in the habit of saving some lengthy threads to my harddisk so I could read them offline (such were the restrictions of my 'evenings & weekends' internet package). One of these threads was the infamous contretemps between Diamond_Dave and Silky_Sally, where DD stole SS's credit card to fund his trip to the States to see Bowie live. After DD became mysteriously silent, SS's twigged that something was up and aired their dirty laundry on the boards, only for the thread to descend into horrible sniping and bickering on the topic of … vegetarianism. Such were the diversions that I never understood what actually happened until I found this post by Ziggfried today, in which he addresses DumpyDave directly:

In reply to:

Ziggfried 03/30/06: You know what I think is funny, Dave? Someone like you taking the moral high ground and pontificating about the words and actions of people on this site. You're some paragon of virtue, aren't you, pretending to be friends with a girl just so you could steal money from her to finance your trip overseas. Then you come back around here, always complaining about other people, and expecting everyone to give a shit about anything you have to say, and to get sympathy when someone breaks into your place and steals from you. Do little things like "shame" and "irony" mean anything to you, you fucking hypocrite?


Upon reading the original thread, it seems clear that Silky_Sally notified Adam in person (by telephone, it is inferred) about DD's actions … and yet, what action was taken?

Did Adam ban him, as punishment for the pain and hurt he inflicted?
Did he put out a message notifying other vulnerable, nubile TWers of Dave's vile actions, to avoid the charms of his greasy hair and porcine snout?
Or did he grant a convenient absolution to his fellow countryman, creating a forum where male predators go unpunished, and their actions pass without acknowledgment, even?

Whatever the explanation, Adders, don't make me go all Valerie Solanas on you.



Marquis
(wise like orangutan)
01/21/11 02:57 PM
He could play a cow uterus just like ringin a bell new [re: Auntie Prism]  

In reply to:

don't make me go all Valerie Solanas on you


Oh, but it's the best track on the record.

I may have something else non-pithy to add to this later, but I'd like to hear what Adam has to say first.

I don't walk it like I talk it cause I run it

ziggfried
(acolyte)
01/21/11 08:56 PM
Re: S.C.U.M. new [re: Auntie Prism]  

In reply to:

TJ Newton


I was around for the whole TJ thing, but I'm damned if I can remember what the fuss was all about. I remember vaguely that TJ was an arsehole of some sort, but what exactly did he say and do? Was he TW's first pariah?

In reply to:

You know what I think is funny, Dave? Someone like you taking the moral high ground and pontificating about the words and actions of people on this site. You're some paragon of virtue, aren't you, pretending to be friends with a girl just so you could steal money from her to finance your trip overseas. Then you come back around here, always complaining about other people, and expecting everyone to give a shit about anything you have to say, and to get sympathy when someone breaks into your place and steals from you. Do little things like "shame" and "irony" mean anything to you, you fucking hypocrite?


Wow, that's some quality indignant rage going on there.



Auntie Prism
(stardust savant)
01/22/11 09:48 AM
So many tears I was searching … new [re: ziggfried]  

I think TJ's problem was that he attempted to answer serious discussions with simplistic opinions and personal anecdotes. For example, I remember a heated discussion on depression, where he told the aforementioned SugarPlumFairy, and a few other TWers, to 'snap' out of their depression because it had worked for him in the past. He also habitually misinterpreted posts, which gave rise to the oft repeated line, 'How am I supposed to get a joke on the internet?'

Initially TJ wanted a TW of sunshine and rose petals, as I guess we all did, but he held on to the belief for too long. When he attracted hostility from Twister, R/R and others, he became aggressive and tried to imitate their style, creating a toxic combination of ignorance, belligerence and flooding. I think his final farewell message—the one posted by his 'brother' announcing that TJ had died in a car crash—was a failed attempt to guilt trip those that had been particularly opposed to him into feeling sorry for him. In short, TJ wasn't cut out for a hostile TW, hence my previous post.

In reply to:

[Ziggfried] Wow, that's some quality indignant rage going on there.


Yeah, I'm not sure how you acquired your 'nice' tag. Boy, you sure had us fooled.

Marquis, it doesn't appear that Adam is going to show, so you will need to take his place. What you need first of all is an avatar of yourself stroking your chin, gazing at some undefined point beyond the horizon, as though dreaming of the future androtopia.



ziggfried
(acolyte)
01/22/11 10:20 AM
Re: So many tears I was searching … new [re: Auntie Prism]  

In reply to:

I think TJ's problem was that he attempted to answer serious discussions with simplistic opinions and personal anecdotes. For example, I remember a heated discussion on depression, where he told the aforementioned SugarPlumFairy, and a few other TWers, to 'snap' out of their depression because it had worked for him in the past. He also habitually misinterpreted posts, which gave rise to the oft repeated line, 'How am I supposed to get a joke on the internet?'

Initially TJ wanted a TW of sunshine and rose petals, as I guess we all did, but he held on to the belief for too long. When he attracted hostility from Twister, R/R and others, he became aggressive and tried to imitate their style, creating a toxic combination of ignorance, belligerence and flooding. I think his final farewell message—the one posted by his 'brother' announcing that TJ had died in a car crash—was a failed attempt to guilt trip those that had been particularly opposed to him into feeling sorry for him.


Oh yeah, TJ's "death" by car crash - I remember that. Happy times! So he was never actually banned, then, huh? He just faked his own death (and not too convincingly)?

In reply to:

Yeah, I'm not sure how you acquired your 'nice' tag. Boy, you sure had us fooled.


Well, we can't always be obvious assholes, like TJ or Diamond_Dave or Dogz, can we?



KAdministrator
(thunder ocean)
01/22/11 11:49 AM
Re: So many tears I was searching … new [re: Auntie Prism]  

In reply to:

But the distinction you make between social networking and info exchange appears to counteract K's first point, which I thought was well made. K's first point is that the males at TW were particularly effective in befriending the admin and moderators—i.e. that they excelled in social networking—thus availing themselves more favourable social ties than their female counterparts.


I seem to be particularly vague with my points in the post above. That seems to have characterized much of my writing in this place through-out the time I've been active here: I attempt to be clear and witty and end of being neither (though with the above post I wasn't really even trying as it was the middle of the night).But to clarify: I did not mean to suggest that male posters would be particularly adept in befriending the moderators and admins but that in the peculiar atmosphere of TW they seem to be more adept in social networking in general. Though come to think of it this might be a statistic mirage caused by the fact there were less female posters to start with.

In reply to:

This is quite a boring question, but I thought that Ohramona could give out titles--I thought she was responsible for the (cook)--so can she not give herself one, so to speak?


If I remember correctly, moderators cannot edit themselves.

In reply to:

Perhaps you have in mind SugarPlumFairy, who I think is the only female to earn her title by reaching the 5,000 post target. But for every SPF (who, to her credit, never winged or complained about the arguments publicly on the board) there's a PabloPicasso (who certainly complained & threatened to sue), or a Diamond_Dave, or a TJ Newton. I'm not convinced that TW women are averse to having it 'rough' (sorry, there's no other way of phrasing that without passing over it in awkward silence), as evidenced by those named in my original post.


I admit my example was largely based on the two female (ex-)TWers I know personally, SPF and Tuesday's Child (I think that was her username, not 100% certain). I also have a vague memory of there being similar reasons behind Starlite's leaving.

And just for the record, the reason why SPF got her custom title was because I noticed she had passed the line and essentially forced it on her as a last-ditch attempt to make her not leave these boards. She never asked to be granted one as people usually do when passing the 5000 post mark. Furthermore, if I remember correctly Adam initially declined his custom title (though he did change his mind later).

In reply to:

I think his final farewell message—the one posted by his 'brother' announcing that TJ had died in a car crash—was a failed attempt to guilt trip those that had been particularly opposed to him into feeling sorry for him.


I have a very vague memory that he posed as his sister and not brother, possibly as an attempt to gain additional sympathy.

Trololololololololololololololololo

Quills
(kook)
01/22/11 12:12 PM
Re: So many tears I was searching … new [re: K]  

In reply to:

I have a very vague memory that he posed as his sister and not brother, possibly as an attempt to gain additional sympathy.



He posted saying he was TJ's younger brother.

I am 100% positive on that.


I went to a restaurant that serves 'breakfast at any time'. So I ordered French Toast during the Renaissance.


power2charm
(cook)
01/24/11 09:34 PM
Hold me, kiss me, thrill me new [re: Auntie Prism]  

Soz about Shelle, AP. My life just got too hectic to continue the project.

I make a blery bad woman, I think we all can agree on that.

____
Kid, you've paid your dues...dues and dues. ~J. Tweedy

ziggfried
(acolyte)
01/25/11 03:02 AM
Re: So many tears I was searching … new [re: Quills]  

In reply to:

(K) I have a very vague memory that he posed as his sister and not brother, possibly as an attempt to gain additional sympathy.


In reply to:

(Quills) He posted saying he was TJ's younger brother.

I am 100% positive on that.


Here's the infamous post...

Hello everyone.

First of all, I'm not T.J. Newton, but his older brother. I'm able to use his nickname to post a thread here, because Matt (T.J.) was always logged in and we used to work on one computer. I could have made my own username, but I'm afraid I'm too lame to do it.

As you may have noticed, Matt hasn't been posting here since few weeks. What's more, he will never post anything.

My brother and your fellow, Matt a.k.a. T.J. Newton died in a car accident last sunday.

I assume most of you think it's a joke or a hoax, probably you don't even believe I'm Matt's brother. You've got your reasons to think so - all in all, he left and then came back, he had an alter-ego and generally was a bit neurotic, so you can be used to it. But I wouldn't be joking about death of a family member, nor would T.J. do. He was hungry for "fame", but not that much. Death is not an issue you can joke about...

I'm posting this because I know how important TW was for Matt. He kept telling me about his "battles" with some users (cannot remember their nicknames, though). Who knows, maybe he took virtual reality too serious? I know that he probably would like you to know he's not among us anymore. I know what kind of a person he was. He needed attention, he always wanted to be in the middle of events. You might have liked it or not, but please don't judge. It makes no difference at all now...

Please, don't post anything on his e-mail address. I can't delete it because I have no password, and reading letters he will never read is hard to bear for me. And please, if you didn't like him, stop yourself from saying anything unpleasant. It's a memorial thread and I hope it's not going to turn in a Matt's hatred thread.

Can anyone be so nice and tell me how to delete an account on TW? I would appreciate it a lot.

Matthew K. a.k.a. T.J. Newton
13/12/1984 - 12/10/2003
Rest In Peace

Thank you for your time and I apologise for my English, it's not very good.

And remember... please don't judge :(




Quills
(kook)
01/25/11 08:54 AM
Re: So many tears I was searching … new [re: ziggfried]  

I got the brother part correct. Time plays tricks with the mind.

I went to a restaurant that serves 'breakfast at any time'. So I ordered French Toast during the Renaissance.


ziggfried
(acolyte)
01/25/11 07:56 PM
Re: So many tears I was searching … new [re: Quills]  

Should we make a memorial thread or something in a few years' time, for the 10th anniversary?



Remade/Remodeled
(acolyte)
01/25/11 08:43 PM
Re: So many tears I was searching … new [re: ziggfried]  

Remind me Ziggfried, was death an issue we joked about on that thread?

C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre

dice
(every nation's refugee)
01/25/11 10:35 PM
Re: Where have all the women gone? new [re: Auntie Prism]  

i invented the custom title when i requested one from adam. soon all the cool kids wanted one. sadly, adam was liberal in granting them. i was never aware that a certain post count became a requirement. perhaps i was around 5K between my two usernames when i made the request (don't remember the other username - perhaps my fake doppleganger whose name i have forgotten). i have no idea what my current post count is and never have

dice - a true original

http://www.kiva.org

make a difference

ziggfried
(acolyte)
01/25/11 11:39 PM
Re: So many tears I was searching … new [re: Remade/Remodeled]  

In reply to:

Remind me Ziggfried, was death an issue we joked about on that thread?


Me? No. But plenty of others, you included, saw fit to rip apart TJ's death hoax. Of course, there were plenty of other idiots on there who wept like babies over it. Get ready for a blast from the past, featuring lots of TWers who haven't been around in years, Diamond_Dave being a total nob as only he could be, and diamondogz74 in his earlier "belligerent bastard" phase (i.e. before his cloying queen schtick):

pianocraft
I'm very sorry about the loss of your brother.I hope he didn't suffer. No one deserves to die this young.

vintagerock74
This is sad indeed, it was very nice of you to tell us.
Maby right now he is sitting talking with Mick Ronson about his Ziggy Stardust years, in heaven. If you believe in that place, I sure do.
"Friends are like stars, you might not always see them but you know they are there."

poorlilrockstar
wow. T.J. was one of my favorite posters on here, and I was upset enough when he decided to leave the last time... for some reason, I'm having a harder time accepting that this is real. not that he and I were close or anything, but you know how it goes. anyway, I don't know if it's even possible to delete an account. I'm sorry.
RIP T.J., you will be missed.

RealThing
I never knew TJ well, I enjoyed his posts quite a bit. It's a shame to hear he's gone, especially considering his age.
RIP TJ, we'll miss you.

Diamond_Dave
This is sad to hear.

I was just listening to Sarah Brightman's "Classics" LP and felt a touch of sorrow hearing "Time To Say Goodbye". :(

Why are fellow humans taken away at such an early age?

May he look over us all and enjoy our Bowie moments with the entire TW clan.

Goodbye dear Matthew.

SillyBoy
to die so young..that's just totally fucked up... T.J was one of the people I Really liked in here. I'm truly sorry for your loss. Rest in peace old mate .

Ziggyoo
Oh... my... god...

Davidsloveslave:
I honestly dissapered for a few months, and wasn't often in the boards anyway, but I remember seeing T.J here a few times, and thought him very funny (from what I remember). This is so sad. My sincere condolences to you and your family.

Ruskie
Have you ever heard the story of the boy who cried wolf?

Anonymous
Christ there are some suckers on this board. Your brother has just died tragically and you decide to represent your post with a sad emoticon? I don't think so. This is a typical T.J stunt...

amoeba_
i haven't seen too much of him in the time i have been here, and i don't know him at all, but considering that there are so many similar sympathy seeking rouses on the net, i think that you ought to scan or link us to an obit.

smellysox
yeah! sympathy ruse...i get it, yeah let's see a coffin shot! just like uday and qusay! I won't believe he's dead until i see his hairy head all mangled!

This thread sucks.

poorlilrockstar
there are nicer ways to say "I don't believe you." I'm sure everyone on the board has considered that it may not be real, but show some consideration in case it is, alright?

Siddhartha Gautama of Suburbia
usually don't post many things....but in this case....
RIP son of 1984......you'll be missed, t.j.

Strawman
I realized a while back that you have a severe attention disorder, Newton, but spinning jokes/hoaxes about your own death!?!

White Prism

In reply to:

I'm very sorry about the loss of your brother.I hope he didn't suffer. No one deserves to die this young.


No, not even TJ.

Anonymous

In reply to:

there are nicer ways to say "I don't believe you." I'm sure everyone on the board has considered that it may not be real, but show some consideration in case it is, alright?


1. Shut up telling people what to think or say you cunt.
2. Everyone hated him anyway
3. I hope it is true
4. You are a gullible cunt, you cunt, you fucking cunt
5. I feel better now. I like calling girl-children like you cunts, you fucking cunt
aaaaahhhhh

shyster
Know what the difference is 'twixt you and I, anon?

shyster, is the official registered cunt-slinger 'round these parts. > The real deal.

You, as an anon, are a cowardly cunt with no identity.

Oh and Newton? You shouldn't get peoples hopes like this.

gopherwartz
way to log in anonymously. you a real man!@

diamondogz74
IF!!! indeed this is true?,then it is a tradgety to die so young.
But knowing this site and reading of TJs posts in the past,this does rather whiff very highly of JOKE!,no i DO not believe you,its pure fabrication.

dice
obvious hoax, for the following reasons:

In reply to:

As you may have noticed, Matt hasn't been posting here since few weeks



if he only died last sunday, why has it been weeks since he last post?

In reply to:

all in all, he left and then came back, he had an alter-ego and generally was a bit neurotic, so you can be used to it


In reply to:

He was hungry for "fame", but not that much



In reply to:

I could have made my own username, but I'm afraid I'm too lame to do it


In reply to:

It's a memorial thread


In reply to:

I hope it's not going to turn in a Matt's hatred thread



all bizarre statements

Glitterbot

In reply to:

Your brother has just died tragically and you decide to represent your post with a sad emoticon?



Ahahaha!

dukewhite
Not only that, Dice, but all of the quotes you posted contain terminology which is less frequently used by non-mb-friendly people. Unless Matt's supposed brother frequently read TJ's posts, he would not know of his love of "fame," what an al;ter-ego is and how frequent they are here, nor that many people would take this as an opportunity for a Matt Hatred Thread.

Nice try TJ, but you're not getting any "oh he was so great" posts out of me.

gopherwartz
he was great i miss him already. rip old friend

Lady Androgyne.
Why even bother.
All this attention is just what he wants, isn't it? Although it's negative.
He would be glad he got it, even in his grave.

96dbFreak
Odpoczywaja w pokoju, Matt.

Claude
Ok! I can see very well.......the schizophrenia is ruling!

LaughingGnome
If this is true, then i am sad to hear it. He was an ok guy (T.J), his main problem i think was people took him too seriously. R.I.P T.J Newton.

If this is him making a joke then i say, haha very funny

Dr_Iwft_Wood
If. If? If? Are you people retarded. Obla-dee Obla-da...
Look at the thread title. Sad non-smiley icon. Hello? Man, some people here are sooo dense...
I'm actually starting to think 'ol T.J is smarter than a lot of people here 'coz he sure put one over on a lot of y'all...
Y'all need to see a doktor...

poorlilrockstar

In reply to:

1. Shut up telling people what to think or say you cunt.
2. Everyone hated him anyway
3. I hope it is true
4. You are a gullible cunt, you cunt, you fucking cunt
5. I feel better now. I like calling girl-children like you cunts, you fucking cunt
aaaaahhhhh



seeing how you quoted me, I suggest you grow some balls and either register or log in with your real name if you have something to say. nobody is offended by a nameless idiot who slings shit.

Anonymous
Like the Peter Gabriel Song
I GRIEVE

TalentedChild
...Becuase regardless of his strange behaviors, I liked Mr. Newton- he was my dear Mr. Newton. And I've had a bad week all ready and this would just really ruin it for me...

TJ- this is a sick joke if you're kidding.

But for some strange reason, I really believe it. Rest in peace fellow Bowie fan.

MichelleAdler
I am soo sorry to hear that. My deepest sympathy. My thoughts and prayers will go out to you and your family.

poorsoul
Well, I was going to write an ode to T.J. but I really can't be bothered.

Worst death-faking thread ever.

ThomasJNewton6
>>>Matthew K. a.k.a. T.J. Newton
13/12/1984 - 12/10/2003
Rest In Peace<<<

Scratch that. I will nver change my username, T.J. . It's not December yet, love.

Anonymous
T.J. Newton's death? ... Might be true … Might be false … Who knows?

If it is false ... knowing T.J. Newton's paranoid monologues and conspiracy theories, he would probably soon arise back from the dead and blame everything, including his short lived life and death on the USA ... you know the usual USA conspiracy crap that T.J. Newton used to spin ad-nauseam.

Infact we should all start blaming his death on the USA and the West, as I guess he would have liked it that way.

Maybe he has gone to the islamic land of milk and honey to receive his 32 black-eyed virgins.
Sorry T.J. Newton only “female” virgins, as islam does not allow 32 black-eyed “male” virgins. Tee-hee-hee.

But seriously just on the off chance that he has departed this life ... R.I.P.

skellaway
Oh my god, I can't believe it.
Deeply sorry for your loss, I'm sure he will be missed.

gnomad
for your information, t.j.'s aka earthling's last post in his own web site was today...

Spunkrat
To T.J's family. If you read this, may I offer my deepest condolensces.

Re "fake" notes, the best any of us can do when confronted with a message of this sort is offer our sympathies, because it might just be true. And sure, there are alway going to be callous fuckos out there who will fake their own death (write suicide notes/claim to be have been raped etc) for a cheap laugh, but are you really allow them influence your compassion? What would be worse - Some dickhead having a laugh at your expense, or them causing you to lose your trust (and in regards to suicide notes etc) your ability to reach out to someone who might actually need a bit of support. Who cares if this this was a fake "note" - don't allow dickheads to dictate to you how you respond to people who may be grieving.

dukewhite

In reply to:

It's not December yet, love.



Only in America does the month precede the date in an abbreviated date. For example, in the US, we'd say 9/11/01 for September 11, 2001, while ewverywhere else in the world they'd say 11/9/01. Now you know. And knowing is half the battle.

Monkeyboy

In reply to:

Only in America …


The way we do things is so superior that other, less-evoluted people won't even try it for themselves. You're all jealous of us. That's why we were attacked on Nine One One, you know. Jealousy.

Remade/Remodeled
Show me the grave and I'll show you the best shucking and jiving this side of Micheal Jackson

Marquis
I thought his name was Isaac. I thought for a second we had both died.

Anyway, if it were true, it would be great. Newton is just the sort of person who ought to be memorialized on the internet.

Glitterbot
The ironic thing about this is that it's the people who really cared about TJ Newton who would be offended by the joke (as they tend to be the ones dumb enough to believe it) and the people he was trying to psych out really don't care either way.

JesusHChrist
Fuck you!

I just got off the phone with Uncle Satan and he said that without a shadow of a doubt, TJ isn't in Hell. And I can Goddamn guaran-fuckin-tee you that he isn't here in Heaven.

Stop with your fake death act. Take it from Me, it isn't as fun as it looks.

Anonymous
A true idiot and moron, is someone who believes anyone here believes TJ is actually dead.

People here being nice and polite are acting on the 1 in thousand possibility that the story is true. In which case it would be the guys bereaved brother you are trying to hurt. They are showing basic decency, if it also pisses off the cliche anti-TJ kids as well, well thats just a nice bonus.

Glitterbot
Are you trying to say that touching comment Diamond Dave wrote about the Sarah Brightman song was just to cover his ass in case TJ was really dead?

How dare you say such a thing. That came from the depth of his soul. And it touched all of us.

krettis
I don't know what to think about this. But if he's death than his popularity (negativ or positiv) made just a tragic point in this board. Cause if there are people who think he isn't death, it must be really sad for the family en friends to read all the reactions of the 'enemy'....
If you think he is pulling out a trick again... than don't react. Cause if he's alive and does come back , than it's your time. Not now when there is a possibilaty he is dead.

The Shadow
29 posts in 5 years, gnomad? Interesting. You obviously don't come here very often, and yet you choose to post in this thread? Curious.

In reply to:

for your information, t.j.'s aka earthling's last post in his own web site was today...


Given that you obviously speak Polish, can you please tell us what the most recent says? Perhaps it's not him but his brother......

Soulman
If a member of my family or a close friend died I doubt I would announce it on a board he/she posted.

gnomad
>29 posts in 5 years, gnomad? Interesting. You obviously don't come here very often, and yet you choose to post in this thread? Curious.

could be i'm more an observer than a talker? and i like detective work and languages

>Given that you obviously speak Polish, can you please tell us what the most recent says? Perhaps it's not him but his brother......

it's a review of the latest number of a rock magazine, probably written by his mother who has adopted her son's personality

mrozek (a polish satirist) would have appreciated this joke

Chichikov
TJ, you make me want to fucking puke.

I don't know why I'm even posting this--you still have me bozoed

Anonymous
The Rise and Fall of T.J. Newton and the Gullible of Teenage Wildlife.

Anonymous
The Rise and Fall of T.J. Newton and the Gullible from Teenage Wildlife.

Soulman

In reply to:

it's a review of the latest number of a rock magazine



Would you let a little thing like death come in the way of something as important as that?

gopherwartz
you guys are all ultra lame. if you don't believe it just ignore it

rip in old friend

shyster
You're ultra-lame.

And you smell of foreskin.

diamondogz74
Ok enough is enough,can we dump this thread now please,i could'nt give a toss one way or the other?if he's dead he's dead!,this is a site about Mr Bowie you know!why you moronic cretins want to believe this CRAP i do not know?,who gives a fuck anyway???

Anonymous
Terribly sorry to hear about your brother. He was a unique cat. My sympathy to the family.
"Remember when you were young,
you shone like the sun,
shine on you crazy diamond."-R.W.

The Shadow

In reply to:

it's a review of the latest number of a rock magazine, probably written by his mother who has adopted her son's personality



Oh yeah? And what does she think of it?

Diamond_Dave
There are certain moments when you listen to songs and hear bad news and I will take this as real until I hear otherwise.

It's very sad to hear of anyone dying and evenif say Twister or Power2Charm passed away I would still feel a touch of sadness as they have given this site massive amounts of input and to not have members like that here anymore due to death would be very sad.

The Shadow

In reply to:

...and evenif say Twister or Power2Charm passed away I would still feel a touch of sadness as they have given this site massive amounts of input and to not have members like that here anymore due to death would be very sad.



What about shyster or R/R, Dave?

Remade/Remodeled

In reply to:

What about shyster or R/R, Dave?



Controversial, Stu.

Anonymous

In reply to:

Matthew / T.J. Newton - 1984-2003



Very sorry to hear of this, my sincerest condolences to family and friends of Matthew (T.J. Newton).

R.I.P.

Diamond_Dave
Why not?

We may have differances and not always see eye to eye but they are still human beings and deserve respect where due just like anyone would :)

It is always sad when someone passes over regardless of how well you might get along with them. And both R/R and Shyster have put alot of effort into this site too.

Remade/Remodeled

In reply to:

It is always sad when someone passes over regardless of how well you might get along with them



Fuck you're a wuss

The Shadow

In reply to:

Fuck you're a wuss



You see the kind of worthless scum we're dealing with here Dave? And still you afford them respect. You're better man than I, Diamond Dave (presuming that I am a man, that is).

ohramona

In reply to:

presuming that I am a man, that is).



That would be presuming a bit much.

shyster

In reply to:

And both R/R and Shyster have put alot of effort into this site too.



Well that goes without saying.

And yours and Stu's contribution as Bowie message-boards' Laurel & Hardy, hasn't gone unnoticed. < No prizes for guessing correctly who's who?

The Shadow
Oooh look, talk about worthless scum and they immediately start to crawl out from under their rocks and don't even bother to deny that they're worthless scum. Self-awareness, what a boon!

gopherwartz
i love the gross arrogance on this board. you guys all have major issues. i hope your offline lives aren't this miserable.

gopherwartz
oh.

hallospacepint
I think Mr Newton has had quite enough, or has he?

Who was it I saw shopping at Harrods last night?

I'll give you a clue...it wasn't Marvin Brandy or Dustbin Hoarman.

Candida
I cant believe the way all of you are so mean about this! I mean so you didn't like him, does that mean that everyone you don't like is faking death! How would you feel if you found out that he really was dead? How stupid would you feel? how bad would you want to take back all the mean things you said about him in this message?
My heart goes out to TJ/Matt's family. I hope that they find the strength to make it through this. They are in my prayers and so is Matt/TJ.
As for the rest of you: well, thats on your consious.

oink
i am devastated. i am really sorry to hear about your brother. he really made the site interesting, and we'll all miss him very much with our hearts. yes i changed my name on the site because i couldn't log in. i know he's been on this site for a while.
bye take care

Anonymous
Rot in hell cunt...and to that fucking cunt who would like to see my balls and that's why I should register...fuck you cunt...you are all a bunch of cunts

T>J is a wanker T.J is wan-ker nananananana-nanananana

poorsoul
You're such a tease.



Auntie Prism
(stardust savant)
01/26/11 04:33 AM
If p2c was Shelle, he was a total schiziod new [re: ziggfried]  

K, apologies for being sloppy in my phrasing. I meant to say that your argument did not refute Emil's general point about information-exchange sites favouring males and social-networking ones favouring females. For all I know, Emil is correct here. Rather, in the specific case of TW, your (I think correct) observation that the site may have retained more males because of their strong social networking (Mod assisted or not) means that Emil's point is not helpful for explaining TW's condition. There is a deeper and darker reason that we cannot identify …

I think I may cryogenically freeze this argument until someone can explain Adam's (non-)involvement in the Silky Sally and Diamond Dave affair.

In reply to:

[dice] i was never aware that a certain post count became a requirement.


Don't worry, it's okay—you did nothing wrong. If any rule breaking took place, it was sanctioned by the Mods and the responsibility lies there.

In reply to:

[p2c] Soz about Shelle, AP. My life just got too hectic to continue the project.


Shelle was one reason why EJSunday and I never hit it off. I remember him accusing me of being Shelle while wearing his Mod badge, thus incurring the wrath of Monkeyboy, twister … all the puppies, in fact. A cloud has hung over our relationship since that day. Despite this, I offer EJ an olive branch, in the form of crooning his favourite song in dulcet tones reminiscent of Mario Lanza:

Well you came and you gave without taking
but I sent you away, oh Mandy …


Well, it was either that or 'The Bare Necessities' …

In reply to:

Claude
Ok! I can see very well.......the schizophrenia is ruling!


Brilliant.

Rather than words comes the thought of high windows

Remade/Remodeled
(acolyte)
01/26/11 04:53 AM
Re: So many tears I was searching … new [re: ziggfried]  

Oh wow, that was incredible.

In reply to:

Your brother has just died tragically and you decide to represent your post with a sad emoticon?


Amazing.

C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre

schizophrenic
(acolyte)
01/27/11 01:14 AM
Ashes To Aaaaaah fuck it new [re: ziggfried]  

Wow, I remember that thread!

This board was way more interesting when it was full of stupid people.



schizophrenic
(acolyte)
01/27/11 01:15 AM
Re: Ashes To Aaaaaah fuck it new [re: schizophrenic]  

AND WOMEN



Emil
(acolyte)
01/27/11 02:37 PM
My favourite girl posters new [re: Auntie Prism]  

Thanks for reminding me of poorsoul, my favourite female TWer. Because of her geekiness and that she always thought of the same jokes as I and beat me to it.

My other favourite "female" was of course Shelle - I knew (and told you) from the beginning that it was p2c. Not so difficult since she addressed me exactly the same way as he did.

It's SAILER, idiot!

ziggfried
(acolyte)
01/27/11 05:35 PM
Re: Ashes To Aaaaaah fuck it new [re: schizophrenic]  

In reply to:

Wow, I remember that thread!

This board was way more interesting when it was full of stupid people.


If I might provide an excerpt from a recent PM of mine...

"In a weird way, [Teenage Wildlife] reminds me of Twin Peaks. One negative review of Fire Walk With Me contained the criticism that in the film, the town of Twin Peaks seems to be weirdly underpopulated (i.e. compared to the TV series). I think a reasonable explanation for that would be, since it’s from Laura’s point of view, we only really see the (limited) number of people she interacts with, but anyway, the old TW reminds me of the Twin Peaks TV series, full of quirky characters, and TW now is like Fire Walk With Me, a darker and rarefied version of what it once was."



RabbitFighter
(incestuous and vain)
01/29/11 10:28 PM
Santa Claus and Jesus guy new [re: ziggfried]  

I'm shocked to find that I didn't contribute any worthwhile T.J. quotes! Surely there are one or two "eat shit and die" moments in there.


If not... WELL FUCK YOU!!!!

Also, I've got a hunch that tells my scrotum that I'm more respected than 90% of Monkeyboy's alter egos who posted here.

I don't get along with myself
And I'm not too keen on anyone else




Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | (show all)
Previous threadView all threads**Threaded Mode
Jump to

Teenage Wildlife Davie Bowie | Email Us! Forums powered by WWWThreads v5.1.5perl

Teenage Wildlife Home Page Bowie's music Info on Bowie Other Media Have your say! Search the Site Help me!


Toolbar (Interact)

Etete Systems