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Patches
(stardust savant)
01/15/11 02:39 PM
Re: This is in the running … new [re: Auntie Prism]  

It's okay you lumped me in with the boys. My screen name is rather androgyneously animal.

_____________________________________
Jareth's speech: Love Me, Fear Me, Do as I say, and I will be your slave. Heathen track: Show me who you are And I would be your slave
Coincidence? I think not.

Quills
(kook)
01/15/11 04:46 PM
Re: Where have all the women gone? new [re: Auntie Prism]  

How can you be sure they were actual women of the female gender?

I went to a restaurant that serves 'breakfast at any time'. So I ordered French Toast during the Renaissance.


KAdministrator
(thunder ocean)
01/15/11 05:58 PM
Re: Where have all the women gone? new [re: Quills]  

The same token, how can you be certain the men were actual men of the male gender?

Trololololololololololololololololo

Auntie Prism
(stardust savant)
01/15/11 06:50 PM
TW is structured around posters' street cred new [re: Emil]  

Thank you for addressing the issue head-on, Emil.

Of course, I doubt whether anyone cares overly much about whether they have a title or not. Rather, I chose this criteria because it's data that can be counted easily: male posters have been more effective in eliciting favours from Mods (just as I imagine they may have accumulated more PMs, or mix CDs, or whatever from other TWers). All this creates an environment particularly hospitable to them.

It's quite possible that TWers have always covertly favoured male posters, for whatever reason, although it would be silly to attempt to gauge whether this is true by asking posters directly whether they preferred male or female posters.

Yet any small, pre-existing bias may have been exacerbated by codifying these preferences into the titles system. Perhaps TWers used to have a silent preference for male posters, but the titles give visible, overt markers of status. Formerly, the boards may have been a receptacle of any tacit male preference (a certain poster writing an opinion about another in a post), but now the boards perpetrate it actively. It's carried beyond the poster's message, into the name display, making the boards themselves sexist.

Once visible, these two factors create a vicious circle, each causing the other, and forcing the male/female disparity to widen to the degree we see today. So it's not quite as crude as 'girls fled the boards because they didn't get custom titles'.

Personally, I experience feelings of gross inadequacy when I stumble across the classic alpha-male 'wise like orang-utan' title. It's practically browbeating. 'Band intro', similarly, carries almost totemic significance, with it being such a popular song in our community.

That said, what I need is someone who was in charge of handing out titles, who is not liable to fly off the handle in discussions about gender …

Adam, what have you to say for yourself?



Emil
(acolyte)
01/18/11 06:24 AM
Re: TW is postured around plasters' streed creed new [re: Auntie Prism]  

WP, I think your post title said it well. We all tacitly value male posters higher, and your thesis is that the mods made that systematic and thus discouraged the female quality posters. Interesting theory, although the passage

In reply to:

It's carried beyond the poster's message, into the name display, making the boards themselves sexist


reads like something that could have been published in the journal Social Text in the nineties.
May I add that I never got my custom title. But then again I'm an old man.

So what I offered could be taken as a complementary or additional explanation. Really, what I am after is the (somehwat cloudy) idea that females are known to have different posting habits, more social networking than info exchange (although WW claims to be an exception to that rule - very possible), and perhaps such patterns work better on busy message boards. Looking at the MBs I frequent myself, I think I can see the rule "more crowded, more girls".
So perhaps when TW thinned out, girls felt even more strongly that it wasn't for them. But this theory is not very well underpinned, I feel.

Lastly, I must agree that band intro is such an obvious display of masculinity - but I though he earned it rightfully by number of posts??

It's SAILER, idiot!

KAdministrator
(thunder ocean)
01/18/11 04:49 PM
Re: TW is postured around plasters' streed creed new [re: Emil]  

As a question (to which I honestly do not know the ansver myself), how many users were actually granted premature custom titles and what's their number compared to users who actually earned their titles by spewing out over 5000 posts? I remember granting only one, to Ohramona at her request not five minutes ago. Because, statistically speaking, it doesn't make much of a case if the number of people who were granted early custom titles is very small. it could just as easily be a conincidence. (I thik the theory is actually fairly good, but as things stand there doesn't seem to be too much proof).

Two contributions I might be able to offer:

1 - It's possible that the average female poster is better-respected than the average male poster but they are not nescessarily better liked. From a purely personal point-of-view, if I had to choose my favourite posters as persons the list would be predominantly if not exclusively male. But if I had to choose the best posters (in terms of quality) the list would be more equally divided, maybe even female-dominated. Since it takes a certain amount of courage to request a custom title, it's possible that female users have been less incluned to do so as they don't nescessarily consider themselves to be in as good terms with the moderators (the majority of which are also males) than the male users.

2 - TW has always had something of a rough culture where it's ok to insult people for fun and generally be less politically correct than on other boards. From my personal experience with the TWers whom I know in real life it does seem that this is what has driven female posters away from the boards. My impression is also that this masculine behaviour pattern amongst the posters generally became more prominent around the same time as the board's activity started decreasing. Therefore it could be a double effect of less general board activity of which a larger portion is masculine activity that to me would seem to drive away females.

3 (bonus point) - How could a site named "Teenage Wildlife" not be sexist?

Trololololololololololololololololo

Auntie Prism
(stardust savant)
01/20/11 06:56 PM
S.C.U.M. [re: K]  

In reply to:

[Emil] Really, what I am after is the (somewhat cloudy) idea that females are known to have different posting habits, more social networking than info exchange.


I suppose this loose 'rule' would differ depending on the particular nature of the message board in question. But the distinction you make between social networking and info exchange appears to counteract K's first point, which I thought was well made. K's first point is that the males at TW were particularly effective in befriending the admin and moderators—i.e. that they excelled in social networking—thus availing themselves more favourable social ties than their female counterparts. (Yes, the pseudo-Social Text jargon is baiting. )

(A small correction to one of my previous posts: JarethsGirl did receive an early title, and I think was the only female to do so. But, to redress the male/female balance, I omitted p2c's title, (cook), which was also granted early, albeit because someone was caught tinkering with his profile, iirc.)

This is quite a boring question, but I thought that Ohramona could give out titles--I thought she was responsible for the (cook)--so can she not give herself one, so to speak?

As for K's second point:

In reply to:

TW has always had something of a rough culture where it's ok to insult people for fun and generally be less politically correct than on other boards. From my personal experience with the TWers whom I know in real life it does seem that this is what has driven female posters away from the boards.


Perhaps you have in mind SugarPlumFairy, who I think is the only female to earn her title by reaching the 5,000 post target. But for every SPF (who, to her credit, never winged or complained about the arguments publicly on the board) there's a PabloPicasso (who certainly complained & threatened to sue), or a Diamond_Dave, or a TJ Newton. I'm not convinced that TW women are averse to having it 'rough' (sorry, there's no other way of phrasing that without passing over it in awkward silence), as evidenced by those named in my original post.

Speaking of Diamond_Dave, however, this post now turns to its darker purpose, concerning a subject I only properly understood today. When I first joined TW I was in the habit of saving some lengthy threads to my harddisk so I could read them offline (such were the restrictions of my 'evenings & weekends' internet package). One of these threads was the infamous contretemps between Diamond_Dave and Silky_Sally, where DD stole SS's credit card to fund his trip to the States to see Bowie live. After DD became mysteriously silent, SS's twigged that something was up and aired their dirty laundry on the boards, only for the thread to descend into horrible sniping and bickering on the topic of … vegetarianism. Such were the diversions that I never understood what actually happened until I found this post by Ziggfried today, in which he addresses DumpyDave directly:

In reply to:

Ziggfried 03/30/06: You know what I think is funny, Dave? Someone like you taking the moral high ground and pontificating about the words and actions of people on this site. You're some paragon of virtue, aren't you, pretending to be friends with a girl just so you could steal money from her to finance your trip overseas. Then you come back around here, always complaining about other people, and expecting everyone to give a shit about anything you have to say, and to get sympathy when someone breaks into your place and steals from you. Do little things like "shame" and "irony" mean anything to you, you fucking hypocrite?


Upon reading the original thread, it seems clear that Silky_Sally notified Adam in person (by telephone, it is inferred) about DD's actions … and yet, what action was taken?

Did Adam ban him, as punishment for the pain and hurt he inflicted?
Did he put out a message notifying other vulnerable, nubile TWers of Dave's vile actions, to avoid the charms of his greasy hair and porcine snout?
Or did he grant a convenient absolution to his fellow countryman, creating a forum where male predators go unpunished, and their actions pass without acknowledgment, even?

Whatever the explanation, Adders, don't make me go all Valerie Solanas on you.



Marquis
(wise like orangutan)
01/21/11 02:57 PM
He could play a cow uterus just like ringin a bell new [re: Auntie Prism]  

In reply to:

don't make me go all Valerie Solanas on you


Oh, but it's the best track on the record.

I may have something else non-pithy to add to this later, but I'd like to hear what Adam has to say first.

I don't walk it like I talk it cause I run it

ziggfried
(acolyte)
01/21/11 08:56 PM
Re: S.C.U.M. new [re: Auntie Prism]  

In reply to:

TJ Newton


I was around for the whole TJ thing, but I'm damned if I can remember what the fuss was all about. I remember vaguely that TJ was an arsehole of some sort, but what exactly did he say and do? Was he TW's first pariah?

In reply to:

You know what I think is funny, Dave? Someone like you taking the moral high ground and pontificating about the words and actions of people on this site. You're some paragon of virtue, aren't you, pretending to be friends with a girl just so you could steal money from her to finance your trip overseas. Then you come back around here, always complaining about other people, and expecting everyone to give a shit about anything you have to say, and to get sympathy when someone breaks into your place and steals from you. Do little things like "shame" and "irony" mean anything to you, you fucking hypocrite?


Wow, that's some quality indignant rage going on there.



Auntie Prism
(stardust savant)
01/22/11 09:48 AM
So many tears I was searching … new [re: ziggfried]  

I think TJ's problem was that he attempted to answer serious discussions with simplistic opinions and personal anecdotes. For example, I remember a heated discussion on depression, where he told the aforementioned SugarPlumFairy, and a few other TWers, to 'snap' out of their depression because it had worked for him in the past. He also habitually misinterpreted posts, which gave rise to the oft repeated line, 'How am I supposed to get a joke on the internet?'

Initially TJ wanted a TW of sunshine and rose petals, as I guess we all did, but he held on to the belief for too long. When he attracted hostility from Twister, R/R and others, he became aggressive and tried to imitate their style, creating a toxic combination of ignorance, belligerence and flooding. I think his final farewell message—the one posted by his 'brother' announcing that TJ had died in a car crash—was a failed attempt to guilt trip those that had been particularly opposed to him into feeling sorry for him. In short, TJ wasn't cut out for a hostile TW, hence my previous post.

In reply to:

[Ziggfried] Wow, that's some quality indignant rage going on there.


Yeah, I'm not sure how you acquired your 'nice' tag. Boy, you sure had us fooled.

Marquis, it doesn't appear that Adam is going to show, so you will need to take his place. What you need first of all is an avatar of yourself stroking your chin, gazing at some undefined point beyond the horizon, as though dreaming of the future androtopia.




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