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   >> Interpretation
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Adam
(crash course raver)
12/15/00 12:26 PM
I'm Deranged - Kreutzberg, Berlin, 1977 new  

Placed at the end of the Outside CD are 2 companion songs: "Thru These Architect's Eyes" (discussed in a previous thread) and "I'm Deranged". These 2 songs are buffered together between segues of Nathan Adler. The detective prefaces the songs with "but wait I'm getting ahead of myself, let me take you back to where it all began". They represent the beginning of the Outside story, rather than the end.

As established, Thru These Architect's Eyes is Leon's view and approach to the world of art around him described through architectural and biblical reference. In a similar manner, the song "I'm Deranged" follows the views of The Artist/Minotaur. This is before the murder of Baby Grace.

Firstly, the words "I'm Deranged" is not the Minotaur singing "I am a mental case". This song is about tapping into a psyche that inspires art. During the making of Outside, Bowie visited the artist wing of Gugal Mental Hospital for his own inspiration. It was there he learnt about the character Angel Man. It is no coincidence that Angel Man appears in this song. The Artist calls upon the spirit of this Outsider to enter and corrupt his/her body:

It's the Angel Man
Cruise Me, Cruise Me, Baby


This song is of chief importance because Adler's intent is to solve the crime by nailing the artist's inspiration. He says, "it's my job to pick thru the manure heap looking for peppercorns". His Art-Crime Incorporation are experts in their field: they even proved the Paulus Potter's "The Young Bull" of 1647 was identicle to Monet's grain stack paintings of the 1890s.

Adler's diary reads as a coverage of these gory art crimes, all of which could be an inspiration for the Artist/Minotaur:

Viennese castrationists
The blood rituals of Nitsch
Chris Burden (and his collaborator)
Damien Hirt
Ron Athey
Rothko

Now for the time and date of "I'm Deranged". In the future (1999), we already know that Leon becomes a suspect when he "jumps on to stage with a criss criss machete and starts slashing around". When Leon "cuts a zero in the fabric of time itself", it means he is drawing reference to another time period. This is why the Outside story jumps around in time. Now look at the dates in Adler's diary - Kreutzburg Berlin, 1977. The Minotaur draws inspiration from many artists and many time periods. Enter Joe The Lion....

From Adler's diary (after mentioning the late 70s and Chris Burden)....
Round this same time, Bowie the singer remarked on a coupla goons who frequented the Berlin bars wearing full surgery regalia: caps, aprons, rubber gloves and masks.

Looking closer at the song Joe The Lion (written in Berlin, 1977 about Chris Burden), we learn that Joe went to a bar, had a couple of drinks, and then became a Lion (a brave artist) by performing the ultimate sacrifice for his art. He crucified himself on his VW and became "like his dreams that night". Again The Artist/Minotaur is inspired:

Thin skies, the man chains his hands held high
Cruise me blond
Cruise me babe


Still not convinced we are in Berlin 77? Have a look at Adler's diary - just before he steps back to this time - he says "but wait, I'm ahead of myself".

Time is an essential factor in this story, and what we can deduce from it, this is why we have a diary. From the start of the album we have an instrumental piece called "Leon Take Us Outside" which is asking Leon - the inspired young artist - to challenge us, through his young architect's eyes. Dates are mumbled across an instrumental piece. In the following song, Leon becomes the valid artist: "it's happening now, not tomorrow, or yesterday". The other time noted in Adler's diary is 1994. This is the time of the "Heart's Filthy Lesson", and the crime of December 31, 1999 already hangs in the air: "I'm already 5 years older, I'm already in my grave". In this song, the Minotaur already "wears the clothes" of the artistes before him. Adler is now aware of this, but still cannot find a motive:

Oh Ramona
If there was only something between us,
Other than our clothes


He questions his entire approach and even pleads to Patty "I think I've lost my way".

The clothes are part of the physical guise of the Minotaur and are directly linked with the crime. In October 1994, Adler glances at his advanced copy of New Yorker magazine to view an uncompromised photographer who found a "twisty avenue through desire and death celebrating fashion". Straight away he considers it evidence: "one look is all it took". At the end of the diary, a celebrity-artist buys a diamond encrusted umbilical cord "to announce her pregnancy" to a being that would have been 14 years of age. It appears the Minotaur has visited one of Ramona's body-parts jewellery stores. The one of which Miranda is the store operator (Adler asks whose been wearing Miranda's clothes?). This is Bowie's Silence of The Lambs. The Minotaur in itself is a composite being - half man, half beast. (As a side note, Bowie together with Damien Hirst contemplated recreating the Minotaur. An anonymous man had offered them his body after death and the plan was to remove the head and stitch on a bull's head in it's place).

The songs that follow THFL, provide the condition of the murderer - each song progressively more frightening than the previous before culminating in the terrifying "Wishful Beginnings". Leon Blank reappears again in "I Have Not Been To Oxford Town" as the accused (the finger points at me). "As the 20th century dies", his chance to build his tower of iron is looking dim. A tragic story, in it's own right.

Finally, the song "I'm Deranged" celebrates Bowie's own belief in Outsiders. His explaination for visiting mental hospitals is such:

It's quite obvious that these outsider artists don't have the parameters that are placed on most artists....Their motivation for painting and sculpting comes froma different place than that of the average artist who's sane on society's terms. The lesson to learn from Outsider art was that the artist should be primal. Technique or virtuosity didn't matter; that which was unformed and screaming inside of you, waiting to be released, was the real essence of the creativity.

Mental breakdown was so central to Bowie's musical focus, that when brother Terry committed suicide, he could not approach this in his work until some 8 years later. He even attempted to revise his lyric writing: producing - for the first time - songs of political comment, social comment, anti-drug songs and anti-nazi songs.

The Outside sessions were a watershed. Once again, he was able to tap into the spirit that inspired his best work. When "The God of Music" (ref: Einar) re-entered his body, it was more powerful than ever. On one particular day of the recording sessions, Eno watched in awe as Bowie - in a blinding stream of consciousness - invented a set of characters and weaved a story around them. As Bowie devised the narrative, the entire thing was recorded live on mic. Like his more extreme 70s personas, the Outside characters are exaggerated versions of himself and his first hand experiences. Contrasting to "I'm Deranged", is the song "Thru These Architect's Eyes" which represents another strong motivation of Bowie's work: competition. In Thru These Architect's Eyes, Bowie observes the majestic city landscape, and realises he can even outdo Philip Johnson and Richard Rogers. He goes where the "music is Outside", leaving behind his job where "the money is from day to day". This album is his true masterpiece. Like Low and Heroes, it will take the rest of the world another 20 years to realise.

Is small life so manic. Are these really the days?

lowlodgerheroes
(electric tomato)
12/15/00 01:19 PM
Re: I'm Deranged - Kreutzberg, Berlin, 1977 new [re: Adam]  

Wow. That was quite interesting indeed.
I agree that the order of the songs are not as they are presented (i think i brought that up in another thread...or i meant to). I think that Bowie delved into his Lynch influence on this album (i'm deranged even made it to Lost Highway a couple of years later).
I never took the song back to 1977, however, but it does seem plausible that it is when it takes place. I'm Deranged is the true beginning of the album (with a little history from Adler beforehand) but when it took place always troubled me. I thought perhaps 1994, but 1977seems more appropriate.
However, the year that doesn't get much talk is 1985. This was the year that Grace was apparently born, seeing as she was 14 on 31-12-1999. This was the year that her mother (an acclaimed artist) walked into Ramona's shop and never came out again. Ramona apparently got Grace at this point in time. Whether she took her out by her own means or waited for her birth is unknown.
The mention of cloths is interesting and the line abut "who's been wearing Miranda's cloths?" still puzzles me. It has been referenced to Shakespeare and to Miranda Rights, but i'm not sure if that is it.
Thru these architect's eyes is an odd song to follow I'm Deranged in my opininon. It makes I'm Deranged seem almost like a flashback...perhaps Adler has a flashback and then we are brought back to Leon's present. Nonetheless, it is a strange line-up.
I agree that this album is incredible and i hope that one day it does receive the recognition that it deserves.

Toni! the narcoleptic tiger!

Adam
(crash course raver)
12/15/00 01:50 PM
Re: I'm Deranged - Kreutzberg, Berlin, 1977 new [re: lowlodgerheroes]  

Miranda is possibly the store operator from which the diamond encusted umbilicle cord was puchased. As noted in the diary, Ramona owns a chain of these stores. Adler sings "Who's been wearing Miranda's clothes". At other times he addresses Ramona: "If there was only something between us, other than our clothes".

Further notes:
Diamond Friendly=Diamond Encrusted Umbilical Cord that holds great attraction for the Artiste/Minotaur......it sits in the
Laugh Motel=The crazy shop of body parts.

Is small life so manic. Are these really the days?

lowlodgerheroes
(electric tomato)
12/15/00 02:37 PM
Re: I'm Deranged - Kreutzberg, Berlin, 1977 new [re: Adam]  

Hmmm, that gives me yet another idea. What if Miranda was the unnamed artist that was pregnant with Grace that went to the store. Then the line means that Ramona is not literally wearing her clothes but assuming the position of Grace's mother or caretaker. A posible motive; jealousy. Ramona claims to be an 'Artiste' with no enemies, but perhaps i was because no one thought much of her art. So when this grand artist walks in, she can't help but try to take her place. Perhaps even losing herself and becoming deranged to the point where she doesn't know who she really is. Then she later proclaims, "I am with name, i am Ramona A. Stone".

Another interesting thing, Adler states, "Now Leon
He couldn't wait for 12 o'clock midnight
He jumps up on the stage
With a criss criss machete
And slashes around cutting a zero on everything
I mean a zero in the fabric of time itself."

This is also mentioned in "...Oxford Town" when Leon says'
"If I had not ripped the fabric
If time had not stood still.
If I had not meet Ramona
If I'd only paid my bills."

My question is, midnight of what day? I had always assumed midnight as in the crossing to the year 2000, but that doesn't seem to fit. And what stage is he jumping on?

NOTE: This album seems to delve into many different art forms; The MUSIC is outside, I was an ARTISTE, thru these ARCHITECT's eyes, and the diary of Nathan Adler serves as the art of writing.




Toni! the narcoleptic tiger!

pussycatraynor
(kook)
12/15/00 04:57 PM
Re: I'm Deranged - Kreutzberg, Berlin, 1977 new [re: Adam]  

That's a lotta material. Whew.
The timeline idea is possible, songwise, but I'm not quite convinced.
Somehow, things don't match, don't fit and not it the way a crime plot, even the most convoluted promises--almost as if the was some sort of change of direction. Mike Garson did describe how most of the album songs came from a Jan 95 session, but they had been working on the project since March 94.
I do understand about the influences (Burden, Athey, ...). But it's like reading two different things. THe original story/ diary, tho gory, is almost quirky and of a very dark humor. The album itself, the music is extremely emotional, dark, draining, and depressing-- I've yet to listen to the whole thing in one go-- I usually turn it off in the middle of I'm with Name. It's extraordinarily disturbing.
About I'm Deranged-- it uses a lot of gay, S/M lingo and imagery (cruise me, fist of love).
What is the "Salaam" reference (a Middle Eastern greeting)???
"Before we reel" (lovers swooning, or to reel from a blow, from shock-- or film, but last is unlikely).
Other points: "Diamond friendly". OK right with the illfated shopeer and her encrusted cord but it continues "sitting in the Laugh MOTEL"-- not a shop. Almost sounds like a high-class call girl, rather.
"if there was only something between us", referring to emotions, not clothes. An empty relationship, where all that binds two people are appearances. superficialities.
"I think I've lost my way" (self-questioning, "where did I go wrong, where do I go from here?)

More pondering over the weekend.

"Let go of my hand, Ed".

bewlaysib
(mortal with potential)
12/15/00 08:13 PM
Re: I'm Deranged - Kreutzberg, Berlin, 1977 new [re: Adam]  

Didn't Hitler, aspiring to be an artist/architect, apply to art school and was rejected? Can he then be viewed as the greatest Outside Artist that's ever been, a guy who staged the greatest theater of destruction that's ever been seen, all because of his burning need to express himself? Wasn't he a little bit deranged and out of control? Wasn't he involved with the occult(Angel Man, indeed)? Didn't he have a bizarre relationship with a teenage girl who disappeared under mysterious circumstances?

What is the point of 1. Oustide? Who cares about the narrative? Who cares about these characters? If anybody cared, we would've seen the theatrical version mounted on some European stage by now. Bowie did his pastiche best. But where's the meat, David? You couldn't sell this idea to anybody, because it's just way too oblique and vague and empty and pretentious, which may work on a conceptual/audio level but not on the realistic one of actually trying to convey a story to an audience that makes sense even if it's presented in a fractured way. All you've done is to create a mystery that you yourself have lost interest in. Or, if you're still interested in this enterprise, I dare you to publish the full narrative text of 1.Outside, if it exists at all beyond the fragments that are floating somewhere inside your head. And if all else fails, let Adam help you with it--at least his intrerpretation is something to build on.



Tyger_Lily
(wild eyed peoploid)
12/16/00 03:35 AM
Re: I'm Deranged - Kreutzberg, Berlin, 1977 new [re: bewlaysib]  

Gerard Mortier, the head of Salzburg Festival, did actually harass Bowie (via, of all people, Bianca Jagger) to have him finish the Outside-Inside project and keep his word and contract, but Bowie took exception as he had apparently lost interest in it (the reason being his commercial Hours... persona, I suppose, not to be associated with a commercial version of an Orlane) and also had distanced himself from Eno. So as for the world not being interested in Outside, I do believe at least the very powerful manager of the most prestigious opera festival in the whole wide wold, save for Bayreuth, was interested enough, to the point of provoking the artist´s anger and enmity.

We are all Greeks.
Shelley

Adam
(crash course raver)
12/17/00 09:54 AM
Re: I'm Deranged - Kreutzberg, Berlin, 1977 new [re: Tyger_Lily]  

In reply to:

What is the "Salaam" reference (a Middle Eastern greeting)?


Yes it is. As mentioned, this song is about the inviting of Outsider influences. A Salaam is an "obeisance performed by bowing very low and placing the right palm on the forehead" and "a salutation or ceremonial greeting in the East". In it's transitive sense, it means: "to greet or pay homage to with a salaam". This is the Artiste paying tribute to it's influences / inspiration. But this is 1977, and it is only the beginning.

By the 1990s, we find that the Artiste / Minotaur has far more than influence, it actually becomes a true outsider. Free of it's sane mind, the Artiste will approach art in the most pure and primal form. This is very much at odds to Adler who is a detective grounded in logical and systematic thought process. But Paddy and Nathan eventually get a little too close to understanding the psyche of the Artiste.


Something in Our Blood: Interest Drugs

While investigating the crime, Adler and Paddy are in awe of Artiste's creativity. Adler says to Paddy: "what a fantastic death abyss. Tell the others". As a prelude to "Hallo Spaceboy", we learn about Ramona's "interest drugs" via Baby Grace. These drugs are an enhancement for creativity. They make you "think a bit too fast, like a brain catch". But they also destroy logical, sane thought. (Not that this is a concern, when art is held as first priority - take a look at Bowie's portrayal of Julian Priest in Episode 1 of The Hunger: "Sanctuary" for a good parallel to the Oustide story).

"Hallo Spaceboy" is sung by Adler's side kick Paddy. It appears the detectives have found the interest drugs, and have tried them out of curiosity - or perhaps to get closer to the mindset of the Artiste. Paddy is intrigued at the possibility of awakening his own creativity. And this is him, on a wild, frantic trip. Paddy says "Bye Bye Love. Hallo Spaceboy" - a term used to describe the mentally deranged. The term "Spaceboy" also cites one of Bowie's earlier personas which has been strung out on a high for some time now (this was referenced more closely on the Pet Shop Boys remix of the song: "Ground to major bye, bye Tom.....and I want to be free.....don't you want to be free?").

No Control (sung by Nathan Adler)

This song depicts Adler's struggle to maintain sanity after taking Ramona's drugs. He desperately wants to regain focus:

You've got to have a scheme
You've got to have a plan
In the world of today
And Tomorrows man
I Shall live my life on bended knee
If I can't control my destiny


But then he starts to sing: "I can't believe, I've no control". In HS, an intoxicated Paddy has noted: "this chaos is killing me". In this song Adler quotes the signature line of the Minotaur: "it's all deranged, de-ranged". And now he begins to have similar dark thoughts:

Sit tight in your corner
Don't tell god your plans
It's all deranged
No control


The later verse, is more specific to the crime. It eludes to an over bearing memory / conscious and the destroying of evidence (Ramona's clothes):

Forbidden words, deafen me
In memory, no control
See how far a sinful man
Burns his tracks, his bloody robes



Destruction = Beauty

The song "Voyeur of Utter Destruction" is sung by the Minotaur / Artiste. On this album, destruction, chaos and even murder are seen as beauty in the eye of the Artiste. It is then we can understand lines like:

I shake and stare at the sun, till my eyes burn

The voyeur of utter destruction, as beauty

A razor sharp crap shoot affair and we light up our lives

What a fantastic death abyss



The Music is Outside

In the liner notes, the song Outside is considered the "prologue" of the album. This song is a celebration of the Outsider art, that Bowie supports:

They beat on the outside
And I'll stand by you now


The theme of insanity = uncompromised art is evident here:

The crazed in the hot zone
The mental and diyas hands


And the sacrifice of life in the name of art:

The fisting of life
To the music outside


The crux of the album is not to depict the clues of a murder mystery but to translate the influences, intentions and extremities of the crazed outsider artiste. This is clear not only in the lyrics but in the music which at times is hypnotic, chaotic and genuinely frightning. The album has references to the actual scene of the crime particularly THFL - but the crime itself is background material. It provides a means to bind the characters and tales within.

pussycatraynor
(kook)
12/18/00 10:26 AM
Re: I'm Deranged - Kreutzberg, Berlin, 1977 new [re: bewlaysib]  

That was all very interesting--
I just don't know, the more one examines Outside, the more it doesn't make sense. I know all about the art involved, the ideas, the musical bowie connections, but it just doesn't make sense, only if you look at it from a more emotional perspective-- or maybe that's just cause i'm a girl.
I was born and bred in Germany, and don't ever remember the Turks using the word "Salaam". Salaam is an Arab greeting. ( I just checked with a friend-- there is a signifigant difference, although the turkish version has the same root, the two greetings would not be confused).


"Let go of my hand, Ed".

kirk
(crash course raver)
12/18/00 12:05 PM
Re: I'm Deranged - Kreutzberg, Berlin, 1977 new [re: Adam]  

In reply to:

It provides a means to bind the characters and tales within.


That's very true. Do you think this makes is more or less of a concept album, or is that an irrelevent (and perhaps nonsensical) question?

I never really bothered with the story, because I enjoyed the album enough as it was. The sound texture is what is so brilliant, not the story. Although the mystery is nice - was nice, Adam was actually given me a lot of meaning. I would love to hear what db would have to say about this interpretation...

don't let me die with that silly look in my eyes...

Adam
(crash course raver)
12/18/00 01:08 PM
Re: I'm Deranged - Kreutzberg, Berlin, 1977 new [re: kirk]  

Thanks Kirk.

In reply to:

Do you think this makes it more or less of a concept album


Probably more so. If people expect a lineal and literal description of the story / crime plot, then I would describe that as a "rock opera". And then it risks being reduced to a Webber / Rice thing, which is kind of scary. I find this a more interesting way of presenting. Outside is based on the Diary of Nathan Adler in a similar way that Diamond Dogs was based on George Orwell's 1984. And no one questions the intent of that album. I guess there is a whole film to reference there. But that is what sets this up perfectly as a stage piece or even a 100 minute long video. We are only hearing a fragmented soundtrack. We haven't even seen the visuals yet. If the album made too much literal sense there would be little point to going on IMO.

I am interested in compiling some of this research on the web by placing the correct song order, along with some visuals and excerpts from the Diary where appropriate.

Is small life so manic. Are these really the days?

kirk
(crash course raver)
12/19/00 02:29 AM
Re: I'm Deranged - Kreutzberg, Berlin, 1977 new [re: Adam]  

Kind of like how Buddha of Suburbia has very little to do with the film/tv/book/whatever. Not that I have seen/read, but I can't see much there. But then I don't really listen that closely to lyrics, as has already been discovered...

I could question the intent of Diamond Dogs, but I won't. Well I could question the worthiness of it

Adam you should make a 1.Outside webpage, call it Adam takes us Outside or something. I'd be interested. Is there an actual diary, apart from the liner notes? I heard of a published paperback that was limited release, but of course people lie and decieve... is it true?

don't let me die with that silly look in my eyes...

bewlaysib
(grinning soul)
12/20/00 00:51 AM
Re: I'm Deranged - Kreutzberg, Berlin, 1977 new [re: Tyger_Lily]  

I don't know where you got this info about Bianca, a contract, etc...But if I was Gerard Mortier I would've been damned disappointed that this project came to naught. Obviously, the Salzburg Festival would've at least doubled its ticket sales if this project actually materialized. Having a Robert Wilson/David Bowie/Brian Eno theatrical premiere would be an awesome thing to present. I'm not sure who blew whom off on this one. But I get the feeling that Robert Wilson felt he was being roped into this project. And then Bowie, being Bowie, announced the project in interviews before Wilson had fully committed to it. All I know is Wilson went off with Lou Reed to work on Time Rocker. They've now collaborated on a
second project, leaving Bowie in the dust.
I recall a TV Bowie interview with Charlie Rose in NYC from a couple of years back. This project came up in conversation. Bowie said he was trying to work on it with Wilson, but they were having difficulty being in the same city at the same time. Rose then said, "Oh, I just saw him(Wilson) last night at a party." Bowie replied, "Well, next time you see him, tell him to give me a call." And that was that. You can arrive at your own conclusions. But I'm certain that Lou Reed is having a good laugh over this. And then the recent YAHOO! INTERVIEW wherein Bowie calls Wilson the world's best lighting designer. Ooooh, I detect some rancor there on David's part. Boys, you should kiss and make up.



kisch
(electric tomato)
12/20/00 05:41 AM
Miranda's clothes new [re: Adam]  

I always connect this line "who's been wearing Miranda's clothes?" with one of my fave books by John Fowles "The Collecttor". The main character's name is Miranda Gray, she was prisoned by maniac Klegg in his house. When Miranda dies at the end of the book, Klegg keeps all her clothes to present it to his next victim.
I like this reference a lot, I think it is very clever :))
Maybe I'm wrong and the line is all about Sheakspear though...


--------------------
If your life-style is unacceptable - hide it !

Tristan
(electric tomato)
12/22/00 02:20 PM
Re: I'm Deranged - Kreutzberg, Berlin, 1977 new [re: kirk]  

In reply to:

Adam you should make a 1.Outside web page


There is a 1.Outside web site if you didn't know it.



Tyger_Lily
(wild eyed peoploid)
12/23/00 03:36 PM
Re: I'm Deranged - Kreutzberg, Berlin, 1977 new [re: bewlaysib]  

I came across the Bianca references in an interview given to Spanish newspaper el País (in Spanish. Sorry about that) whose URL I sent to Teenage Wildlife. These are the relevant parts:
Q: Por otro lado, el director del Festival de Salzburgo le
recrimina que no aceptara participar allí en un montaje de
Robert Wilson, aunque estaba dispuesto a pagarle medio
millón de dólares.

A: –¿De verdad ha dicho eso? No entiendo que alguien que va de
mecenas de la vanguardia tenga que dar argumentos económicos
para explicar que... bueno, le conocí y me pareció una persona
desagradable. Y se dedica a mandarme mensajes a traves de
Bianca (Jagger) como si ella fuera mi representante. ¡Por favor!...

I´m not so sure Bowie´s presence in Saltzburg would have been that appealing to the public. It could have made quite a stir in terms of media publicity, but the public there are quite the connoisseurs and don´t take kindly to mindless innovation or shock for the value of shocking. I remember The Great Macabre didn´t go down well at all with the more traditional sort of opera-goers.
What you say about R. Wilson backing down from the project could be true, but in the light of the interview I have transcribed above I very much doubt it, as the interviewer makes very plain that it was entirely Bowie´s fault. Thus perhaps Lou Reed stepped in as "second best" replacement, if you don´t mind my saying so. Anyway it´s not only Bowie alone who calls Robert Wilson the best light designer in the world. Pretty much all theatre critics of the old school can´t stand him and his mannerisms.


We are all Greeks.
Shelley

sevenlives
(mortal with potential)
12/23/00 04:33 PM
Re: I'm Deranged - Kreutzberg, Berlin, 1977 new [re: Adam]  

I usually just read the MB, but this time I just have to post to say how impressed I am Adam. 'Outside' is one of my all time favourite pieces of art and your posts are really very thought provoking. Thanks a lot. Maybe you should really think about an 'outside' site of your own.
'Hours...' is not a bad record but I do miss the 'Outside' creativity and I really don't like the new all-smiles-and-cute stage persona...




dice
(kook)
01/20/01 11:08 PM
Re: I'm Deranged - Kreutzberg, Berlin, 1977 new [re: sevenlives]  

yeah, the all smiles has gotta go - well put

you guys need better stuff to do



AdamModerator
(crash course raver)
05/22/01 09:40 AM
The Motel - - Kreutzberg, Berlin, 1977 new [re: dice]  

I've had some further thoughts about the Outside album and the connections between the songs and Adler's Diary. Warning: this does not make light reading.

I have a theory that the "small friends" are associates of Ramona. And that "The Motel" is another song set in Berlin 77. In Adler's diary, this place is known as The Suicide Temple. It is where Ramona and several Outsiders, live a dark, dark existence. A place where lost souls spend their time….and in some cases…..end their time.

The top floors were the gateway to giving up to the holy ghost

The residents here "live from hour to hour". And in the midst of it, Ramona, has formed some kind of community of artistes and acolytes.

Yes. I remember Ramona. She set herself up as the no-future priestess of the Caucasian Suicide Temple, vomiting out her doctrine of death-as-eternal- party into the empty vessels of Berlin youth.

The doctrine is to make "a complex fashion for a simple man". It "recognizes the death of the odorless man", and oversees "the fisting of life" in the name of art. "Explosion" and "me exploding you" is the art ritual. The sham is a trick…Ramona's prophecy to the empty youth. The doctrine is the lesson that falls upon deaf ears. For if there was only some kind of future.

Explosion falls upon deaf ears while we're swimming in a sea of sham

In Berlin 77, Adler knows he is on to something. But Ramona's Motel eventually sees the end of it's day.

She must have overseen more than 30 or 40 check-outs before the local squad twigged what was going down.

What about the line "There is No Hell"?. This is a reference to the not-so-well patrons. During Bowie's visitation to mental hospitals around 1994/95, he found scribed on the wall of a criminally insane ward, the words "THIS IS HELL". It had a profound effect. He mentioned it in interviews. And quite interesting, over at BowieArt, I found a painting with a slight variation of that phrase again:



The song "The Motel", is sung by Leon Blank, who was too young to be part of Ramona's Berlin scene. But this gothic drama is not governed by normal standards - for Leon slashes "a zero in the fabric of time itself", to which Adler immediately reacts: "Is this a suspect". Later as the acused, he sings "if I had not ripped the fabric, if time had not stood still". For The Artiste believes it is at the crucial "crossroads between the centuries" and this is why it performs art on December 31, 1999. It is "a millennium fetish".

Will we appease the gods by the year 2000? - I think that is the sub text of all this you see - that it's passing itself off as art.....So it's sort of a ritual in search of a philosophy. - David Bowie.

But the killer is not Ramona - for she has "spat upon deeply felt age". And in the diary we learn that the zero - from the future - actually visits Ramona back in Berlin 77:

A zero with no name looks dull-eyed to Ms. Stone, the drone that says "in the future, everything was up to itself".

But why no name? It is explained by Adler's ramblings in "I Am With Name". The Artiste has not only changed its appearance (to that of the Minotaur) but also it's identity.

A person who loses a name
Feels anxiety descending


So my suggestion is that the "zero" - a previous associate of Ramona ("the priestess") - is the killer. "The Acolyte" is the murderer. (Acolyte: 1 : one who assists the clergyman in a liturgical service by performing minor duties. 2 : one who attends or assists). Ramona - who is also Leon's lover - knows the identity, but keeps it a secret....

We'll creep together you and I,
For I know who the small friends are


The Artiste, who later purchases a diamond encrusted umbilical cord for the ritual of Baby Grace, was there with Ramona, back at the Motel. For there is always a diamond friendly, sitting in the laugh motel.

Till there was rock, you only had god

Sysiyo
(cracked actor)
05/23/01 03:37 AM
_ new [re: Adam]  

*Loss of words*

*Gasp* Adam, I worship your eternal wiseness.... *kneels down to bow to Adam*


Because I'm young - don't mean it's allright

StrangeDrugs
(wild eyed peoploid)
05/27/01 05:56 PM
Re: The Motel - - Kreutzberg, Berlin, 1977 new [re: Adam]  

This is a small thought I had the other day that seems to be slightly relevant...but probably isn't.
Zero. 0.
It's interesting that the symbol for nothing, zero, is a circle. Circles have no beginning and no end, go on forever yet never begin, like time that doesn't really exist.

But if there is a symbol for zero,it has to represent SOMETHING, or at least the absence of something, but that's impossible since there cannot be absolutes. ...Like the colour black is the absence of colour but that cannot be...we can never have absolutes becos there is no fact, only varying degrees of opinion...
SO becos everything is nothing,nothing is everything. And I once thought that opposites were the same but I've modified that. Or perhaps they ARE opposite ends of a string that when put together become a circle so they really are the same but theyre nothing becos everthing is nothing...but what I was going to say is that they could be the parallel lines in a spiral that cannot exist without the other...like you would not know what darkness was unless you had light to compare it to...
Did I have a point I was getting to? Like whatever drugs whoever was on, my mind works faster than i can talk or type or even think, my thoughts interupt themselves...there is something comforting in insanity, but it is a quest...

And whoever said that Bowie lost interest in this idea and blahblahblah, that was wonderful. Cos everything is nothing and who cares and damn. I have to stop this now.





NoGame
(cracked actor)
05/27/01 06:01 PM
Freaky ! new [re: StrangeDrugs]  

That was a freaky, ass-kicking, fuzzy post !

'...the absence of something...'' - sounds very cool !

Anyway. I take this oppurtunity to says this is an excellent thread. Many thanks to Adam for posting his thoughts to these boards. Very inspired.

Sometimes this place does rock eh? Now... back to Coffee Shop.

NoGame
Man on the Prowl

AdamModerator
(crash course raver)
05/28/01 04:19 AM
The Zeroes Were Singing For You [re: StrangeDrugs]  

In reply to:

This is a small thought I had the other day that seems to be slightly relevant...but probably isn't. Zero. 0. It's interesting that the symbol for nothing, zero, is a circle. Circles have no beginning and no end, go on forever yet never begin, like time that doesn't really exist.


That is very good. Now you have yourself a hypercycle.

Two Zero Zero Zero: the crossroads between the centuries.

Also, thanks to everyone who has taken the time to read this thread. I would like to insert an emoticon for [exhausted] here. Cheers!

zimmo
(grinning soul)
05/28/01 10:05 PM
two sides and a spiral up new [re: Adam]  

Have you ever thought about the two sides in this album like the voyeur of utter destruction opposing the architects eyes (architects construct)
the digging of the golden lesson in architects eyes opposit of -the hearts filthy lesson
i think the motel is the real lovesong being outside (a place of some hours real love, outside the sea of sham) and life being heard no hell like an old hell) the motel-- opposite of the hotel (--falls upon deaf ears-- hell)
explosion may be sexual? me exploding you? the odorless man is like a plastic man- a perfect photopuppet but unreal - i am deranged before we real?
the me exploding you sound of lighting up their lives and can be sexual as a solution revelation comes in the strangest way i better be inside you-- cruise the minotaur artist that suffers emotionally(bleeds) --voyeur of utter destruction -- the angelman is the zero as circle into a spiral up, new beginning?( animal state transforming into angelstate, destruction-- into architects eyes)
all the dreams in my minds eye realizing man himself is the builder of reality as creative being in balence with his animal state
all the souring days in our life - realizing all our friends now seem so thin and frail, thats the state of human compassion? the state of compassion for the victim the innocent baby grace of the flowers and the violent minded minotaur raining tears --no laugh hotel, who so becomes the angelman


AdamModerator
(crash course raver)
05/29/01 10:13 AM
Re: two sides and a spiral up new [re: zimmo]  

I like your translations, zimmo. The construction / destruction and innocence / violence is a certainty. And transformation, indeed leads back to the Angel Man.

One man is called the Angel Man.......he believed he was an angel and said, 'I was exactly who I was up until the 5th of February. 1948. And then I became an angel ... it was just after lunch.' And from that point, he believes that his old person disappeared and his angel took over him. He was totally reborn at that moment. - David Bowie on meeting Outsider Artists.

One minor point is the lyric "souring" which I think is "soaring", as in soaring buildings. The daily life of an architect driven by man's obsession to accomplish the tallest building in the world. As noted by power2charm, this was thwarted by God at Babel. Bowie describes Outside as a "perversion of catholic ritual", "a relish of pagan attitudes" and "driven by a pagan engine". It's not Eden but it's no sham. There is no hell and there is no sham.

Bowie also mentions "some kind of blood letting and possibly an unconscious effort to cleanse our souls before the end of the millennium"...."Something in our blood. Something in our skies. Oh Ramona, if there was only some kind of future"

Till there was rock, you only had god

zimmo
(grinning soul)
05/29/01 08:04 PM
Re: two sides and a spiral up new [re: Adam]  

these are just thoughts that have crossed my mind listeing to outside..

babel was a very ambitious project of human meglomania (making a building better then "god" could create way up into heaven) and the start of misunderstanding because after that all people started to speak different languages to one another and to their "gods" and were not able to understand one another anymore .
Perhaps the winter bleeding on the girdle of babel is because of the unableness to communicate well or not being heard by one another a communicative chaos, like in the heart filthy lesson it makes me think about an emotional isolement (being an outsider)
the stone( boy )is perhaps someone like ramoana a stone--- she was so cold ( cold winter bleeds) and perhaps also the stones of buildings too and the stomping is on the big ones or names, he is trying to give up and to leave that job but its hard when you know the monies from day to day and people are used to a certain way of life, he is trying to see what were the original dreams in his minds eye with which he wants to be another kind of realistic world builder to blow the other architects minds.
to be with name makes me think it means to be with fame too and all the applause
Adler makes me think of the psycho analyticus adler who was a well known one like freud and reich and jung and perhaps is chosen because of that for he has to sort out these deranged outsider art/crimes? and the motives behind it
cruel blood rituals were the crazy rituals used in many pagan and also christian religions perhaps they believed something or someone was sacrified to take all the dangers for other people upon it so all debt was payed to the gods so they were safe from danger themselves
someone or something (animal or human something inocent like a virgin or a lamb ) had to be sacrified to" get the gods in better moods,christ is the lamb, for the artgods perhaps it had to be baby grace


BTW i didnt like this scary diarystory in outside at all...
.. well its just art




eraserhead
(crash course raver)
01/23/02 12:33 PM
The Angel Man/the Damned Man new [re: Adam]  

Something kind of hit me today... I stumbled across a message on another message board, which talked about the old saying: "If you see the face of God you will die"...

In reply to:

It is no coincidence that Angel Man appears in this song [I'm Deranged].


Well, the connection between "Angel"/God and derangement is...I don't know, interesting? It says in the Bible: "If you see the face of God you will die". Perhaps "die" can be interpreted as: you will lose your mind, or you will lose yourself - your 'self' will fall apart and die.

I'm Deranged could be about a man who wants to be touched by God. But then we're humans and God is God, and we're not supposed to get too close to heaven. (Or so the Bible says.) The moment someone - anyone - sees the face of God, it's already too late. "No return" as Bowie sings. And what happens is that the person who has seen the face of God (the person who has become an "angel man" - which of course is a paradox in itself) this person becomes deranged. And then it's all downhill, so to speak: "I'm deranged down down down". Bowie sings about "the fist of love" which is also a paradox. (We usually think of Love as something good. ) To come too close to God/Love itself is like getting a fist in the face.

I'm not saying I subscribe to this belief (that if you see the face of God you will die) myself, but it's an old belief, it's an idea that goes back a long time, and therefore it's likely that Bowie, who's always struggled with the big questions, has thought about it. Maybe too much.




WildWind
(stardust savant)
01/23/02 06:08 PM
Buddhism/The Tibetan Book Of The Dead new [re: eraserhead]  

You say all that like death is inherently a bad thing. In Christian theology, isn't the ultimate goal to be in the Kingdom of Heaven with your Lord and Saviour, and can't you only do this by dying? "If you see the face of God, you will die" would seem to be good - you're casting off your sinning body and allowing your immortal soul to prosper in heaven.

But all that is just an aside to where I'm really going with this.

Your statement about losing your "self" is also interesting to me as it reminds me of Buddhist philosophy, where the goal is exactly that - to transcend the "self" and become one with everything (that reminds me of a joke, but I digress). In "Quicksand," a song that borrows heavily from The Tibetan Book of the Dead Bowie says that "knowledge comes with death's release."

If I remember correctly (and it's been quite a while since I've read it) The Tibetan Book Of The Dead also warns repeatedly that you can't get too sucked into any one level of transcendence before reaching the final bardo because to do so is to risk getting stuck there, and you can't mistake the oddities and even horrors inherent on the path to enlightenment for instanity. In other words, the line between enlightenment and insanity is very fine.

Adam said in the original post that "deranged" is not necessarily mad, but inspired/enlightened. Is it possible, however that the artist/Minotaur thinks he's mad? That he is misinterpreting those questionable signs of enlightenment as madness, and perhaps it is this that causes him to turn to art crime? Maybe the horrors that are inherent on the path to enlightenment so consume him that he is moved to create them.

The post above says that "Salaam" is an "Eastern" greeting - does anyone know with which part of the East it's associated?

Anyway, I don't know how well this fits in with the overall contextual interpretation, but I think the parallels need to be mentioned.

WW

- So, what you're saying is that you manipulated me.
- Yes, exactly.


eraserhead
(crash course raver)
01/24/02 05:06 AM
Really deep thoughts new [re: WildWind]  

I'm not saying death is a bad thing - I didn't express my personal beliefs, I just meant that according to the Bible, death should come when it's time, basically. If a young person gets too close to heaven/God, he gets "burned". You're not supposed to do what Icaros did. He flew too close to the sun (the Heaven/God) and his wings melted, and he plunged into the sea and died. He was too eager. I mean, if the door to Heaven would open that easily, I think many people would just want to die now, but since we're here in the first place, we should probably go through this life first.

Many are trying to get to heaven, "before they close the door" as they feel, because, they feel disconnected here. The esoteric knowledge, the mysteries beyond have always had a magic power over us. It's a balancing: we're supposed to live this Earth life, but at the same time we're not supposed to forget about the garden where there's always music in the air. Surely God knows that it's not easy for us, especially not for sensitive, artistic souls like The Artiste. As you say, WildWind, the line between enlightenment and insanity is very fine. The Bible mentions people who've seen the face of an Angel or God, and whenever that happens, the person becomes very frightened. He feels terrible. It's such a shock to him, and it must be very hard for him to go back to his normal life. The contrast is so huge. And that's why I think a lot of people become "deranged" - they can't cope in society, once they've seen a glimpse of Heaven.

As you say, Buddhism talks about losing your "self" and I think what Buddha "preached" is a very healthy "solution" to this dilemma: he is offering a middle way, basically. In Buddhism, to lose your self is not to get lost; it's to rest in peace, and that inner peace is something to fall back on in your daily struggles.






Tristan
(stardust savant)
01/24/02 12:53 PM
Made for Heaven. new [re: eraserhead]  

My kingdom does not belong to this world. (John 18:36)

Unhappiness on earth cultivates a hunger for heaven. By gracing us with a deep dissatisfaction, God holds our attention. The only tragedy, then, is to be satisfied prematurely. To settle for earth. To be content in a strange land....
We are not always happy here because we are not at home here. We are "like foreigners and strangers in this world." (1st Peter 2:11)....
You will have your moments of joy. You will catch glimpses of light. You will know moments or even days of peace. But they simply do not compare with the happiness that lies ahead.

From the book "Grace For The Moment."

Love And Anger ~ KB

ExquisiteCorpse
(kook)
02/26/02 11:38 PM
Oh my... new [re: Adam]  

Uh...Adam...I just have to say that I have no clue how I missed this post all the time I've been here...but you are an absolute genius!!! My friend and i made a stage adaptation of 1.Outside abotu a year ago just for fun because we had to have something to turn in the next day in our playwriting/directing class....we wrote it in one night and had dozens of pages of notes and listened to the album countless times and just immersed ourselves in the music and we didn't come anywhere near the area you hit upon....you just seem to have had a complete understanding...I have to revise our play now because you've made me realize that we took the wrong approach...we got a lot of things right....but we lost the whole miranda..patty...art/murder ritual inspiration thing that nathan is searchng for.....I just have to say thank you for putting this up because you obviously went crazy getting in bowie's head. so...thank you.

I am afraid that there's much to be afraid of.

ExquisiteCorpse
(kook)
02/28/02 02:51 AM
MIRANDA new [re: Adam]  

"At the end of the diary, a celebrity-artist buys a diamond encrusted umbilical cord "to announce her pregnancy" to a being that would have been 14 years of age. It appears the Minotaur has visited one of Ramona's body-parts jewellery stores. The one of which Miranda is the store operator (Adler asks whose been wearing Miranda's clothes?)."

about who miranda is....miranda i think did not work at the gallstone(as a store operator)...it says in the diaries...."ocasionally, a customer would step into her shop and not come out again. the whistle blew after a much loved and highly respected celebrity(miranda), known for being known, failed to show for a gallery hanging of her mirrors...........she'd mentioned that she would be shopping for a diamond encrusted umbilical cord as a celebratory thing to announce her pregnancy....that pregnancy would have produced a being that would be around 14 years of age. if it was still alive."

this does not mean that miranda works there....miranda was baby grace's mother...and the gallstone was a jewlery store, not a clothing store, so the "who's been wearing miranda's clothes?" line I think means that Ramona takes baby grace and assumes the position of a mother...taking miranda's place....make sense?

It is clear that I must find my other half.

schizophrenic
(absolute beginner )
03/01/02 05:37 PM
Re: I'm Deranged - Kreutzberg, Berlin, 1977 new [re: Adam]  

I`ll admit this is all quite brilliant, but any concept that takes 4 pages to figure out probably isn`t worth it.

still...

I admit I do enjoy Outside a lot, and this post is among the best I have ever read.
What I want to know is, where do THESE songs fit in?:
A Small Plot Of Land
Segue: Algeria Touchshriek
and
We Prick You.

Happy Hunting!



ExquisiteCorpse
(kook)
03/01/02 07:27 PM
Re: I'm Deranged - Kreutzberg, Berlin, 1977 new [re: schizophrenic]  

'Segue:Algeria Touchshriek'......Algeria Touchshriek is one of the three suspects for the murder of baby grace...he sold interests drugs(art drugs), i'm guessing, to Ramona A. Stone...he lives in Oxford Town, where Baby Grace's body was found..all set up, cut up and beautifully displayed...not too important, just a lonely old harmless man, you can tell by his monologue on the album...

'A Small Plot of Land'....
this song is sung by the inhabitants of Oxford Town...it's all of them basically accusing Leon of Baby Grace's murder....he's a suspect and now he's being arrested...

'We Prick You'...
this is sung by the members of the Oxford Town court...Leon's trial for Baby Grace's murder..."I wish you'd Tell"
They are basically pressing him for answers...pricking him...

that help? I'm sure these songs have been disected by Adam in this thread previously...

It is clear that I must find my other half.

Tyger_Lily
(kook)
03/02/02 12:18 PM
Re: Buddhism/The Tibetan Book Of The Dead new [re: WildWind]  

WW scripsit: "The post above says that "Salaam" is an "Eastern" greeting - does anyone know with which part of the East it's associated?"

In Arabic-speaking countries Salaam (properly as-salaam alaikum, changing the pronoun according to circunstances, of course) to the best of my knowledge is just like "good morning" or "how do you do" in the West. It merely means "peace be with you". However, Salaam used to have a derogatory meaning as well: it was the English name for a kind of greeting, typically associated with Turkish, Irani and arabic-speaking people, where the person bows or even prostrates himself before a civil o religious authority.
By the way, I very much fear Bowie is playing us for a fool over this one. Have you all reckoned with the use of the Verbasiser in this one?

It's not enough to say, `Go to hell.' Far better to say, `Go to hell, and here are the reasons, with bibliography and footnotes.' Never cross a philologist.
E.P. Menes

AdamModerator
(crash course raver)
03/02/02 09:52 PM
Salaam new [re: Tyger_Lily]  

Dictionary.com says a salaam is "a respectful ceremonial greeting performed especially in Islamic countries", an act of bowing down low and placing a palm on the forehead. So in this repect, I considered it another perversion of religious/classic ritual. At one point in The Heart's Filthy Lesson video, you can see Bowie doing something like a salaam. But it's only for a couple of seconds.

The fact it is Islamic, I don't think has purpose to the song or concept. But I stand by the possibility it is the artiste greeting and paying respect to it's influences and the art gods (Minotaur).

The Music is Outside

AdamModerator
(crash course raver)
03/02/02 10:40 PM
Attachment
Artiste in a Tunnel new [re: ExquisiteCorpse]  

In his 1994 hypothetical play We Saw a Minotaur, Bowie used his own computer and video material "to tell the story of a Modern Day Minotaur". So we could speculate on what of this filtered through to 1.Outside.

"I'm deranged" is sung by The Artiste / Minotaur. Going back to Greek mythology (Bowie said Outside was essentially driven from a pagan engine), the Minotaur was a violent monster that lived underground. For the Artiste, however, it is something to be appreciated - it's a composite being, and as Bowie mentioned, ancient rock paintings were discovered (the oldest known to man) with depictions of the Minotaur. (To Bowie's astonishment these were discovered after he had written the album).

The Minotaur was the offspring of Pasiphaë, queen of Crete, and a snow-white bull the god Poseidon had sent to Pasiphaë's husband, King Minos. Minos refused to sacrifice the beast, so Poseidon made Pasiphaë fall in love with it and give birth to the Minotaur.

In "I'm Deranged", the artiste/minotaur sings "cruise me blonde, cruise me babe", an invitation to the white bull. Likewise in the Voyeur of Utter Destruction: "I shake and stare at the mother's little vermin", could be a reference to the beast child.

In Bowie's 1994 artwork, there is a charcoal and chalk drawing of what he describes as "the costume for an unborn Minotaur……those eggs signify it's birth". In the diary, "pregnancy" and "giving birth" was a key to the ritual.



After the birth of the Minotaur, comes the architect.

Minos ordered the architect and inventor Daedalus to build a labyrinth so intricate the Minotaur's escape from it without assistance would be impossible. Ramona A Stone says "I was an artiste in a tunnel". The mythology also says the Minotaur was confined in these tunnels and fed with young humans which Minos forced Athens to send him as tribute. So from this perspective, Baby Grace is sacrificed for the Minotaur.

Finally, in the scurry towards the end of the millenium, there's a link between modern day ritual and ancient pagan ritual. One trait is in the "The Hearts Filthy Lesson" video where people are emblazed with tatoo and piercings - very tribal yet at the same time typical of trends in the 1990s.

To some, these patterns appear as "chaos" or "premillenium tension", but Bowie suggests a bigger picture. Perhaps appeasing - or silencing - the Gods is becoming irreligious - peverting the modern catholic ritual. There is no hell - if you're already in it.

In A Small Plot of Land, the townspeople reflect on the pagan quest: "swings through the tunnels and claws his way, is small life so manic are these really the days?". The "tunnels" and "steaming caves" might be the commuter system, but at the same time it parallels the prison of the Minotaur. Is this the place where Leon says "It's difficult you see, to give up baby, to leave the job when you know the money's from day to day"? In this respect, we are all bound by similar prisons - the architecture is the physical space and the need for financial security and wealth bounds us to a certain course of action. As Bowie sings in Ricochet: "Early, before the sun, they struggle off to the gates.......In their secret fearful places they see their lives.......Unravelling before them.......March of flowers - march of dimes.......These are the prisons, these are the crimes".


nymphet
(grinning soul)
03/23/02 06:09 PM
the architect new [re: Adam]  

I can't help but wonder what Bowie's personality type is. If it is indeed INTP (which is 1% of the world or something), then it would make sense that Leon would have the type of personality displayed in "Thru these Architect's Eyes" if Leon is reflected thru David's eyes.

The INTP personality is considered the "Architect"--- building things purely out of ideas to create an overall atmosphere.
The most interesting thing about INTP is that "Feelings"--aka LOVE, EMOTIONS; are the most inferior to all other aspects of the personality. Thus raising intellegence, intuition and thinking above all else. This would explain why Leon was involved in the art-crime ritual. If you want to believe that it was Ramona's brainwashing tequniques, then go ahead, but I believe that Leon was fully aware; then regretted it afterward. "Its difficult, you see, to give up baby.. to leave the job, when you, you know the money's from day to day."
Thats my interpretation anyway.



ExquisiteCorpse
(electric tomato)
03/24/02 04:18 PM
Re: the architect new [re: nymphet]  

hey nymphet is there any way to take the personality test online? I think that I took it a few years ago in school but I don't remember what I got...

it's not happening. and if it should be happening it would be alright, so don't worry, Seymour. It'll all work out. You'll see already. In the end it's all nice.

StrangeDrugs
(kook)
09/20/02 01:33 PM
Dreging up old dirt new [re: ExquisiteCorpse]  

I never get tired of reading Outside interpretations. When I first came to TW I had just gotten a promo CD but hadn't listened to it all the way thru. I thought I was missing out on some big secret only hardcore Bowie fans knew...like somewhere there is a list of characters, motives, just little pieces of information. I always thought, and still think, that there should be a website devoted solely to 1. Outside, someone mentioned much earlier that there actually is one, where is it?
Trying to decipher a complex work like this is like trying to solve all great mysteries. Perhaps I should use the word paradox. The unsolvable problem that keeps you going. Is this making any sense? I guess the best example I could use is the film "Memento". About a man who needs to a mystery to solve in order to live -- it's his reason FOR living. I have a theory that I can solve the great mystery of life, but as soon as it is solved, life becomes pointless. The reason for living was to find the answer. So I think I really do know the answer, or I could find it, but the thing is, I'm not ready to stop playing the game. I will know the the answer and my life with end simotaneously, neither is possible without the other.
But the hardest thing to accept, the thing I can never convince myself of, even for a moment, because I would die, is what if there really is no mystery? What if everything really is random? I can't even fathom it.

JACCI

Richard Cory went home last night and put a bullet through his head.

Lacrimans
(kook)
04/29/03 03:30 AM
My Thoughts new [re: Adam]  

Just came to me, while walking outside, listening to "I Have Not Been To Oxford Town."

Leon is framed for the murder, or is accused of acting alone when he may have been an accomplice. Some lines could mean:

Toll the bell - Death imagery, perhaps signalling that Leon's fate is sealed. Leon knows he won't be getting out, for there is apparently some evidence found that links him to the murder. He knows that he can't be saved.
Pay the private eye; All's well - This could mean that since the police have him and apparently some evidence, that this case is solved in their eyes. They have the killer, so case closed and no one needs to worry anymore. Good job, Adler. (But, I don't imply that Adler believes that Leon actually did it.)
Twentieth century dies - Could be representational of Leon's love of the millennium , for he did "jump up on the stage." Since the millennium has passed, Leon is satisfied.

So, who did this? Who framed Leon? I think it was Ramona. In the second Adler segue, it says:

Ramona is so cold
When she broke it off with Leon,
She said "The ring is enough,
I don't wanna see this face again"


Apparently, something happened between Leon and Ramona to make her end their relationship. Since she doesn't want to see him again, she frames him for the murder of Baby Grace, which sends him to prison to possibly be executed; thus she would never have to see him again. She was cold, maybe meaning "cold-hearted", for she was willing to go this far to rid herself of Leon.

Or perhaps I've been watching too many shows about homicide on Court TV.



Do NOT make me LAUGH!




strangeDivine
(cracked actor)
04/30/03 00:08 AM
Re: Dreging up old dirt new [re: StrangeDrugs]  

I've had some thoughts about a few lines.

A blond belief beyond beyond beyond

Does this suggest some type of Aryan superiority concept held by one or more of the characters?? Maybe Ramona herself?? Or perhaps it is of a more harmless nature. "Blonde" traditionally associated with youth and innocence. It is an innocent, naive belief, on the part of someone.

I'm deranged
Deranged my love
I'm deranged down down down
So cruise me babe cruise me baby


To me this signifies some type of romantic/sexual relationship between Ramona and whoever the Artiste Minitaur is. The person (whom the archetype of the Minitaur is manifested in) is allowing Ramona to use it, or 'cruise' it (take the controls of the vehicle). Perhaps the Minitaur is being personified through Ramona herself. And she's 'using' it, or perhaps it is using her, as a conduit of sorts.

Big deal Salaam

If the Minituar and Ramona are separate people, this is another confirmation that she is decieving him/her to use for her purposes. She blesses this person, but it is not sincire. This person is only a tool for her, but she allows them to believe that they mean more. She's throwing around blessings, or her favour; big deal -Salaam! Note the irony/sarcasm in the phrase 'big deal.'

edit: perhaps this song is about the murderer giving up the fight to remain 'sane' and is essentially saying "all right Minitaur, I'm all your's. I can't fight you any more. Take my mind and body. 'Cruise' me.


I should have been a pair of ragged claws
Scuttling across the floors of silent seas

Edited by strangeDivine on 04/30/03 00:10 AM (server time).



strangeDivine
(cracked actor)
04/30/03 04:24 PM
Labyrinth! new [re: Adam]  

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the labyrinth. No, I'm not going to explain to you all the connection between Jareth and the characters of 1.Outside. But, when I think of a Minitaur, I'm instantly reminded me of the Greek myth (I forget which) about a Minitaur in a giant under ground labyrinth. The story is a confusing labyrinth that brings you in many directions but always back to where you began, as you search for the Minitaur.

The Minitaur is also the dark, animalistic side of human nature striving to break free from the labyrinth of the human mind. The maze of modern technology and society makes this beast even more ferocious and dangerous while in it's entrapment, when it finally does assert itself, the result can be absolutely deadly. As Baby Grace would testify, if she only could.


I should have been a pair of ragged claws
Scuttling across the floors of silent seas


Sysiyo
(thunder ocean)
05/05/03 02:31 AM
Re: Labyrinth! new [re: strangeDivine]  

Minotaur.



strangeDivine
(cracked actor)
05/05/03 06:41 PM
Being a word I use quite frequently in writing new [re: Sysiyo]  

In reply to:

Minotaur.


Well I'd hate to make that embarassing mistake again!


I should have been a pair of ragged claws
Scuttling across the floors of silent seas


LaughingGnoome
(electric tomato)
05/06/03 09:47 PM
Re: Labyrinth! new [re: Sysiyo]  

Kinda funny, English is not your native tongue (Finnish is - arent i a smart one), and you go around correcting the spelling mistakes of people born in english speaking countries, impressivvvve (oops).




BigFatDog
(wild eyed peoploid)
08/30/04 09:41 AM
Re: The Motel - - Kreutzberg, Berlin, 1977 new [re: Adam]  

In reply to:

Ramona - who is also Leon's lover - knows the identity, but keeps it a secret....


I've got a feeling Ramona found out by mistake and is feeling the pressure of such a secret. The Minotour is almost mocking her when he says "Funny how secrets travel", and now that she knows there is "No return, No return".

Ramona herself says that "I started with no enemies of my own" almost as if by discovering the trut., she's now acquired other people's enemies.



th0mas
(acolyte)
08/30/04 08:24 PM
Re: Being a word I use quite frequently in writing new [re: strangeDivine]  

what's wrong with Minitower?

"Have you tried... not being a mutant?"

Mxy
(mortal with potential)
08/31/04 00:45 AM
Re: Being a word I use quite frequently in writing new [re: th0mas]  

What evidence exists to link Leon to the crime? I think it's something conclusive (like DNA evidence), which is why the justice has no doubt that he did it. How could there be conclusive evidence if Leon didn't do it? Well, the theory I just came up with while reading Adam's brilliant posts (a theory that, no doubt, I'll find stupid in twenty minutes) is that, when Leon cut a zero in the fabric of time, he created a temporal anomaly that not only made this a non-linear story, it sent him (or part of himself, or a temporal duplicate of himself) to the past, 1977, when he met Ramona for the second time (first time for her) and became the Minotaur who would murder Baby Grace decades later. So perhaps Leon IS guilty.



zigbot
(cracked actor)
08/31/04 02:08 PM
Non-Linear new [re: Mxy]  

Interesting theory, Mxy, so Leon is guilty in the future? Or on some parallel universe where we are at a different point in time? I think of him in the jail demanding he has not been to Oxford Town, and seeing "your shadow on my wall." Is he seeing the shadow of his future self--or his self in the parallel universe he traversed when he cut a zero into the fabric of time?

All rhetorical questions I'm sure. The only true thing about the entire Outside saga is this: It IS non-linear indeed. It's a puzzle without a solution, but it's still fun to play, isn't it?


zigbot

Mxy
(mortal with potential)
08/31/04 09:20 PM
Re: Non-Linear new [re: zigbot]  

Well, I think it's highly unlikely that I'm Right, but I came up with this because Leon cutting a Zero in Reality itself has always been my favorite mental image from 1. Outside, and I think it must be there for a reason. Besides, I Can't Help Think About this as the script of a movie with a relatively normal structure, so Adler's realization that Leon is guilty After All would be something like the twist ending.



Spunkrat
(electric tomato)
09/23/04 03:00 AM
Re: Labyrinth! new [re: LaughingGnoome]  

Minotaur would be greek in origin wouldn't it? Mino as in Court of King MInos, Taur as in Bull
Besides, Minitaur sounds more like a very small version of a bull headed man.

You'd die for diamonds, but you won't live for love

ulfdub
(wild eyed peoploid)
09/24/04 04:24 AM
Re: Artiste in a Tunnel new [re: Adam]  

in regards to:Finally, in the scurry towards the end of the millenium, there's a link between modern day ritual and ancient pagan ritual. One trait is in the "The Hearts Filthy Lesson" video where people are emblazed with tatoo and piercings - very tribal yet at the same time typical of trends in the 1990s.

this was a quetion and answer from a 1997 radio interview...
(i'm guessing at a lot of names here, so be kind)

FEMALE QUESTIONER:"my question deals with your sort of narratives of fragmented bodies in OUTSIDE? and i'm wondering from what angles you approached that,from say, uh, you know, contempory philosophy like delouis leotard or maybe from science fiction, or from your interest in duchamps?

MALE HOST:i was going to ask that question, we had that on tap right?

BOWIE:certainly any basis on modern art, whether it's VISUAL or MUSICAL or THEATRICAL or whatever from people like millam,and james joyce and duchamps i think the main impetus has been THIS CENTURY, uhm, the IDEA of THE IDEA.that MUSIC,um,PICTURES aren't just feeble representations of REALITY, but they're a setting up of TRIGGERS that cause you to question LIFE (in a nutshell). uhm, and i think, because imformation comes at us at a so, (pause), VORACIOUSLY nowuhm, we seem to be overimbued with INFORMATION from the various MEDIUM FORMS. WE CAN"T ANALYZE ANYTHING ANYMORE. uhm the french school was saying in the '60's that we're getting to a point where there's only the ILLUSION of HISTORY, the ILLUSION of a FUTURE. those things are RAPIDly disappearing. WE DON"T HAVE A HISTORY ANYMORE.we can't anal..THERE'S NO TIME TO ANALYZE WHAT HAPPENED LAST WEEK.uh,and, once you have that situation where the past is becoming a GRAY AREA, uhm, by virtue of that fact, the FUTURE looks less like HAPPENING in a REAL SENSE. only 15 years ago PEOPLE HAD SOME KIND OF EXPECTATION THAT WE WERE GOING SOMEWHERE that had A POINT, and a REASON, and that the purpose was to make things better as we GO ON.that REASONING and that MAIN OBJECTIVE has VIRTUALLY DISAPPEARED. we feel that the only thing that we ACTUALLY KNOW ABOUT is LIVING NOW, in TODAY, and i think that's caused ART to TURN IN ON ITSELF, and THE BODY IS BECOMING A NEW KIND OF CANVAS, that's WHY you're WEARING what you're WEARING IN YOUR NOSE. there's uh,uh,uh...it's the ONE THING YOU HAVE POWER OVER, is YOUR BODY and HOW IT REACTS to this VERY COMPLEX and CHAOTIC SITUATION that IS OUR LIVES. we have NO POWER over the COMPLEXITIES of the FRAGMENTATION of LIFE, and so we more and more go into the ah,BODY. It kind of comes out of THERE!

MALE HOST:you're shaking! are you OK?

FEMALE QUESTIONER: ahh, yeees.

p.s you can take the personality test online-i too am an INTP who thinks OUTSIDE is BOWIES ABSOLUTE MASTERPIECE!

it's happening NOW, not TOMMORROW



poorsoul
(acolyte)
09/24/04 04:44 AM
QUIET new [re: ulfdub]  

Such a talented man - he can talk in all caps.

Ziggy Piggae



ulfdub
(wild eyed peoploid)
09/27/04 04:47 AM
Re: QUIET new [re: poorsoul]  

i am half spanish and half danish. the spanish half likes to talk with his hands (thus the caps)and is very proud and arrogant.the danish half is more considerate of others, and types lower case. you my friend appear to be a half breed yourself. only half the post is in caps, so you my friend are HALF BLIND.

IT'S HAPPENING now



Bramanti
(absolute beginner )
09/23/06 11:23 AM
Re: Dreging up old dirt new [re: strangeDivine]  

Hey, strangeDivine. I thought about your remark that Ramona or one of the other characters could have some Aryan pure-blood concept or something. That sounds convincing to me. In the Nathan Adler Diaries, Ramona is described as a "tyrannical futurist". Futurism was a movement in arts and music set in the 20ies and 30ies of the 20th Century, sometimes associated with early fascistic movements, especially in Italy. Calling her a "tyrannical futurist" could even more hint to a fascistic or semifascistic background of Ramona. Just a thought.




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