Teenage Wildlife

IMPORTANT: Use your registry nickname as your username when logging in to Conversation Piece!


BowieTalk
   >> Interpretation
Thread views: 2661 *Threaded Mode

Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | (show all)
pianocraft
(kook)
10/20/02 02:01 PM
The use of "nothing" in Heroes  

I am here to submit that the word "nothing" is a positive quality in "Heroes." It is a word that connotes asceticism and humility on this album:

"nothing will keep us together"
Here, "nothing" means abstinence from the destructive vices destroying characters like Joe the Lion and the Silent Sons on the album.

"we're nothing and nothing will help us"
It is helpful to realize we are not important.This will help us remain grounded and stable.

"nothing will drive them away"
These qualities of temperance and humility will drive away the demons that destroyed characters like Joe the Lion.


In an album littered with slithering drunks, jet-setting drug addicts, and small-minded egomaniacs, meekness and purity are the saving graces of all those who will survive and become "Heroes" in Bowie's 1977 Germanic landscape.




WildWind
(acolyte)
10/20/02 09:17 PM
"ass-backwardly" new [re: pianocraft]  

andro gene suggested this theory here, albeit a bit less eloquently.

I don't agree, but it is an interesting idea, nonetheless.

WW

I like beer with my air.

JonTown
(wild eyed peoploid)
10/20/02 11:47 PM
Re: The use of "nothing" in Heroes new [re: pianocraft]  

i like the idea you posit, though am not convinced of its applicablitiy to the context of 'heroes'.

Where "you can be mean, and i'll drink all the time" bonds a relationship, one might expect the "nothing" to become unbearable and drive more than "them" away/apart.





GermanEngineer
(absolute beginner )
11/01/02 04:06 AM
Re: The use of "nothing" in Heroes new [re: pianocraft]  

I don't agree ...
In your 1st and 3rd lines quoted, I beleive that "nothing"refers to an undefined metaphor



pianocraft
(electric tomato)
11/01/02 03:59 PM
Re: The use of "nothing" in Heroes new [re: GermanEngineer]  

I'm not trying to be rude, but there's no such thing as an "undefined metaphor."



GermanEngineer
(absolute beginner )
11/01/02 06:39 PM
Re: The use of "nothing" in Heroes new [re: pianocraft]  

Why not?
A Metaphore can exist and be represented by an arbitary label, in this case "nothing"

You don't have to be a great man, just a man.

jonasf
(kook)
11/09/02 04:24 AM
Re: The use of "nothing" in Heroes new [re: GermanEngineer]  

I'm not trying to be rude, but there's no such thing as an "arbitary label."
/jf



I was always looking left and right!

GermanEngineer
(mortal with potential)
11/09/02 07:48 PM
Re: The use of "nothing" in Heroes new [re: jonasf]  

I have five apples, a, I give two away, g, I have 3 left, l. This can be written as:
a - g = l

a, g and l are all arbitary labels. Labels because they represent something (in this case the number of apples) and arbitary as I can give them any name, and provided the statement is defined properly, the equation is true.

You don't have to be a great man, just a man.

pianocraft
(electric tomato)
11/10/02 08:00 AM
Re: The use of "nothing" in Heroes new [re: GermanEngineer]  

Still, there's no such thing as an undefined metaphor with an arbitrary label in the use of literature. If there is, give one example.

A metaphor is supposed to call forth a symbolic image. For example, the metaphor of Major Tom floating in space may symbolize drug addiction.

When you say that a word in a song is an undefined metaphor with an arbitrary label, you show that you don't understand figurative language.



GermanEngineer
(mortal with potential)
11/11/02 10:58 PM
Re: The use of "nothing" in Heroes new [re: pianocraft]  

Before I answer your question, you answer mine. I will state it again:
Why can't you have a undefined metaphor.

You don't have to be a great man, just a man.

pianocraft
(electric tomato)
11/12/02 04:30 PM
Re: The use of "nothing" in Heroes new [re: GermanEngineer]  

A metaphor's purpose is to make the abstract concrete.

An undefined metaphor would make the abstract even more abstract.



GermanEngineer
(mortal with potential)
11/13/02 04:40 PM
Re: The use of "nothing" in Heroes new [re: pianocraft]  

This still dosn't answer my question. It does however, support what I say as you have acknowledged the existance of a undefined metaphor.

For your examples, there are two in this thread.

You don't have to be a great man, just a man.

pianocraft
(electric tomato)
11/13/02 04:46 PM
Re: The use of "nothing" in Heroes new [re: GermanEngineer]  

German engineer, you are a coward and a fraud.



GermanEngineer
(grinning soul)
11/13/02 09:25 PM
Re: The use of "nothing" in Heroes new [re: pianocraft]  

ok, first and foremost, undefined simply means that there are no explicit definitions regarding the intention of the metaphor (i.e. the golden orb of the sun is pretty explicit).

anyway, take the following example: "All the world's a stage" - By Shakespeare. now, in this metaphor, several meanings may arise from it, from both interpretive analysis, and analysis based upon meanings of the words involved. for instance "stage" may mean an area where actors perform, or it may mean a raised level or platform. Also, interpretive analysis: all the world's a stage could mean that the whole world is fake and unreal, or it could mean that everything in the world is acting its part, under the control of a higher power. it could also mean the literal definition as mentioned above, that all the world is a raised platform. obviously it would be safe to reject the last meaning, but we cant say for sure that isnt what Shakespeare intended.

anyway, the point im trying to make is that a arbitrary metaphor is simply a metaphor that exists without any solid or intrinsic evidence, but instead is created based upon whim or opinion.


You don't have to be a great man, just a man.


Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | (show all)
*Threaded Mode
Jump to

Teenage Wildlife Davie Bowie | Email Us! Forums powered by WWWThreads v5.1.5perl

Teenage Wildlife Home Page Bowie's music Info on Bowie Other Media Have your say! Search the Site Help me!


Toolbar (Interact)

Etete Systems