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BillHague
(grinning soul)
01/28/04 02:27 AM
Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality T new [re: NoControl]  

The tour had already started before they were even put on sale here in New Zealand.



EJSundayModerator
(acolyte)
01/28/04 08:13 AM
More Statistics [re: NoControl]  

In reply to:

In most markets, 50-100%.


Quite a range. Where are those figures from?

And I want to believe
In the madness that calls 'now'


globule2
(crash course raver)
01/28/04 09:44 AM
Re: More Statistics [re: EJSunday]  

In reply to:

Where are those figures from?


His imagination. Although it's true that the larger venues in north America didn't sell out right away, I would not believe any figure larger than 10%. One can still get an idea by having a look at how many tickets are still available for Philly, Boston and Toronto.



EJSundayModerator
(acolyte)
01/28/04 11:19 AM
More Imaginary Statistics [re: globule2]  

In reply to:

His imagination.


Ah, the usual source then.

And I want to believe
In the madness that calls 'now'


bowiefanpeter
(acolyte)
01/28/04 04:53 PM
Re: More Statistics [re: globule2]  

The US ticket onsales occured in the final week of september. This was after the Rehearsal gig, after the Riverside gig and after a handful of TV gigs. Word was out that Bowie was dipping generously into back catalogue. Word was also out that he had done so on the 99 tour, 2000 dates, Tibet appearances, Heathen Appearances, Marathon shows etc. Also keep in mind that a week after the US onsales, the tour opened in europe, with full knowledge of songs spread around the net.

One specific example that needs looking at is Vancouver. The initial onsale was for the "theater/1/4" stage set-up. Then actual show occured almost in a full set-up. In the 3 months between that time the stage was bumped back 2-3 times. Documentation of this happening has appeared on this site.
I would safely say that attendance was DOUBLED from first months sales to showtime. That would be a 100% increase. Back in september or April I said the 4 Canadian dates would all do over 10K(Calgary 13K, Van 12K, Mon 11-12K, TO over 10K) and I was laughed at by some folks here.

You can tell that most were there to see the hits. You can judge this when by the reaction to the Reality material(noticable dips of interest in BC, strong reation in Seattle) That said, I was quite impressed by the reaction to the Heathen material and couple songs form the mid-90's.

The recent tour simply illustrates that strong attendance numbers will be drawn for Bowie's "proven" material. By proven I mean both songs that work well at all the NYC or europe shows. Some "hits" get tiresome and some newer stuff receives huge interest, and it changes from tour to tour. Large US audiences don't seem to enjoy being the full-on guinea pigs for Bowie's creative indulgences.

BFP

PS Bowie mainstream shows have a high "walk-up" number, so the shows in april should do decently come showtime.



jabow
(kook)
01/28/04 05:26 PM
Re: More Statistics [re: bowiefanpeter]  

In reply to:

Some "hits" get tiresome


I am finding a lot his hits that he has been playing over last 3 years tiresome. It will be interesting to see what he will do on his next tour, will he keep playing the hits or go back to the kind of sets he did on the Outside, Earthling tours.

"You'll have to take me just the way that you find me."


globule2
(crash course raver)
01/28/04 06:49 PM
Re: More Statistics [re: jabow]  

Some of us here are trying to guess what percentage of the total north American tickets were sold after the tour began in Copenhagen on October 7th. bfp says at least 50% in Vancouver; Nocontrol says 50-100% in most markets. My guess at to the upper upper limit was 10%. I won't argue Vancouver with you guys as you hopefully know better, but wasn't that the only case of the configuration changing after the original onsale? Some cities only got a theatre show, and these sold out right away, so the figure would be 0% for them. LA, Chicago and (ughh) Vegas got shows added after Oct. 7, so strictly speaking they would raise the %, but one could counterargue that if they had the show scheduled in an arena in the first place, there wouldn't have been that many tickets sold after Oct. 7.

I think that it will be very hard to get an accurate answer. Guessing ticket sales by having a look at ticket availability is tricky enough. One would have to have done this repeatedly, accurately, and for all venues to even pretend to be accurate, so let me be the first to admit that my number is just a gut feeling based on the few venues I bothered to occasionally check.

bfp points out that the Poughkeepsie and Riverside setlists could have spurred ticket sales among casual fans. Perhaps, but I'd define a casual fan as someone who doesn't look for setlists on the web. I certainly didn't notice any "I see that he's playing China Girl so I bought a ticket" posts here. Riverside wasn't shown in the US (except to a few BNetters in NYC), so that didn't get much exposure there. In both cases the shows focused largely on the new album, with only a few Sound & Vision "greatest hits" type songs (5 and 2, respectively, by my count).

I agree that Bowie plays Fame and China Girl to appease the casual fan and I agree that these songs get loud, if not the loudest, cheers, but I'm skeptical about word of the (ever-slightly-changing!) setlist having spurred such a large percentage of sales. To those of you arguing otherwise, I would ask: how, IYO, did the word get around mostly (internet, articles, TV, radio)? Please site some examples. I do grant that something like this did happen, but I don't agree on the extent. By many accounts Bowie doesn't get much airplay in most places these days, and apart from an odd article here and there, there hasn't been that much pre-show publicity, has there?

Some people even feared that some of the shows cancelled on account of his flu wouldn't be rescheduled (at least not in the same arena) on account of poor ticket sales!



NoControl
(kook)
01/28/04 08:27 PM
Re: More Ignorance [re: bowiefanpeter]  

Idiots known as globule2 and EJ Sunday speak out of their asses, once again.

BFP you were and are right.

But what no one knew was the amount of hits he's be doing. I thought DB would be playing only a handful of them, like the past few years, but no, he's practically played all of them. When Blue Jean made it's appearance the other week for the first time since 1990, I knew any song from his back catalogue could be performed on this tour (and just might, as I wouldn't rule anything out from Never Let Me Down at this point). Not to mention the fact in the Fall, radio promoted the hell out of the fact that Bowie would be performing the hit's again...That'll sell ya an extra several thousand tickets...

Concert Bowl configurations were all pushed back to end stages in: Detroit (from 11-15k), Vancouver (from 7-13k), Calgary (from 8-14k), Toronto (from 9-14k) & Montreal (from 5-15k). Even in Chicago, since there were three shows at the Rosemont, that would be the equivalent of: from 4.4-13.2k. The figures (50-100%) aren't wrong as I can do the math. The next time you two (EJ & globule2) speak out of your asses, make sure you do it in style....

On this first North American leg, Bowie could've and should've done arena shows in Seattle, Denver & Chicago.

...don't tell god your plans...

globule2
(crash course raver)
01/28/04 10:51 PM
Re: More Ignorance [re: NoControl]  



In reply to:

On this first North American leg, Bowie could've and should've done arena shows in Seattle, Denver & Chicago.


Why, then, did you predict that he would skip Denver and Seattle?

NoControl is once again lying, this time about the configurations being pushed back in Montreal and Toronto. I don't know about Detroit or Calgary, but I imagine we would have heard complaints as we did with Vancouver if that had been the case. Maybe all of that bluster is a result of Bowie selling about 50,000 tickets in Canada when he predicted less than 15,000 tickets would be available.

As far as radio ads go, I guess it depends on the market. In mine, I didn't hear or see any advertising after the onsale which suggested that the promoter was happy and confident about ticket sales.

I won't comment on his math ability as it speaks for itself.



NoControl
(kook)
01/29/04 04:35 AM
Re: Ignorance is a funny thing [re: globule2]  

Why, then, did you predict that he would skip Denver and Seattle?

I'm not talking about that. What I'm talking about is in light of the current situation with ticket sales being so phenomenal because of Daivd playing practically all of his hits he should've...

NoControl is once again lying, this time about the configurations being pushed back in Montreal and Toronto.

I've never lied about anything, so you can go fuck yourself! And once again you don't know what you're talking about and I speak the truth. Montreal and Toronto had concert bowl configurations, originally. Now Toronto doesn't and last month Montreal didn't - the were and are pushed back to end stage configurations.

I don't know about Detroit or Calgary

They were pushed back to end stages. How do I know, you say? Well I've been checking ticketmaster.com and ticketmater.ca's seating charts frequently throughout the tour, that's how.

Maybe all of that bluster is a result of Bowie selling about 50,000 tickets in Canada when he predicted less than 15,000 tickets would be available.

I'm not talking about that. What I'm talking about is, is in light of the current situation with ticket sales being so phenomenal because of Daivd playing practically all of his hits that he should've in hindsight...

As far as radio ads go, I guess it depends on the market. In mine, I didn't hear or see any advertising after the onsale which suggested that the promoter was happy and confident about ticket sales.

Duh!

I won't comment on his math ability as it speaks for itself.

Thanks!

...don't tell god your plans...


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