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NoControl
(kook)
02/10/04 09:33 PM
Re: I Admit That I Wasted Time And Space Here [re: BillHague]  

No shit eh?! ROTFLMFAO

...don't tell god your plans...

poorsoul
(acolyte)
02/10/04 11:53 PM
Bloated [re: dice]  

In reply to:

The S&V tour featured entirely pre90s material.



Surely he could've at least thrown in The Motel on a few nights.

In reply to:

The Reality tour, on the other hand, plays some hits a lot, some hits occasionally and some hits not at all.



So let's call it a Hit and Miss Tour.

In reply to:

A tour featuring a significant amount of new material is not a greatest hits tour!



So you're saying Serious Moonlight and Glass Spider weren't greatest hits tours? Sound + Vision is a bit of an oddity, since it wasn't in support of an album, yet it still included the little new material that was available, such as Pretty Pink Rose. After all, what's the point of having a tour that doesn't promote one's latest releases?

In reply to:

IF "GREATEST HITS" WAS DEFINED BY YOU, NEARLY EVERY TOUR OUT THERE WOULD BE A GREATEST HITS TOUR.



In a sense, that is true. From the random tours that I've looked into during the course of this debate (from Glass Spider to 'Hours...' but excluding Earthling), once you take out the new material (i.e. from the previous two albums) there is a large proportion of "hits". However, the Outside tour did include quite a few songs, such as Andy Warhol, Teenage Wildlife and Scary Monsters (And Super Creeps) which aren't widely known and the likes of which haven't featured in other tours. Just looking at the Earthling tour now, it seems to have taken this one further, with even fewer hits played and more new material instead.

I Forgot To Change It Before

bowiefanpeter
(acolyte)
02/11/04 00:31 AM
Re: Bloated [re: poorsoul]  

How come this tour is not being compared to the 83 tour. Easily a better comparison and more congruent argument.

I see this tour as "many of your favourite with no chance of getting YA or Space Oddity" All other periods of DB's career seem fair game.

The only reason Bowie did the 90 tour was that it was contractually linked to his $10M Ryko reissue deal. It's also the only tour he did that didn't support and new album(I'm overlooking the 3-4 2000 dates)

I would also like ot say that this tour features more "Hits/Best of/Favourites" than the 87 tour. Bowie's most commercially successful tour.

RE he's playing new stuff: Between the serious Moonlight heyday and the new heathen/reality material Bowie is only a playing a couple tracks in high setlist rotation. I can only recall IAOA and Hallo Spaceboy. Is this a good showing for 16 years worth of material?

While I'm in Rant mode, I'd like to bitch about lack of variation of US setlists. Not even order variation(opening song one night, encore number the next) I saw both Pacific Northwest dates and only got 2 new songs the second night(both added by bowie at whim) I definitely felt conned after reading the europe setlists. It's especially annoying since there would have been many Bowie fans "double dipping" that weekend. This had nothing to do with me being an obsessive follower. Of the shows I have witnessed, there was more variation on the AREA2 tour.

BFP



Dara
(acolyte)
02/11/04 04:41 AM
Semantics [re: poorsoul]  

In reply to:

So you're saying Serious Moonlight and Glass Spider weren't greatest hits tours? Sound + Vision is a bit of an oddity, since it wasn't in support of an album,



Which is precisely why it was labelled "a Greatest Hits tour" - it's sole purpose was to promote the back catalog by playing the hits (and sell concert tickets at a time when Bowie's drawing appeal for newer material had slumped).

NoControl seems to be arguing that Reality is a Greatest Hits tour simply because Bowie is playing a number of his greatest hits on this tour. But by that definition, most major tours by major artists are Greatest Hits tours, so the term loses all distinguishing significance. Most major artists, young or old, play some, most or even all their big hits every time they tour a new album. These are normal tours, not "Greatest Hits" tours.

As I see it, there are essentially three types of tours:
- The Greatest Hits tour that nostalgia acts specialise in: little or no new material, most or all their biggest hits, no new studio album.
- The normal tour in support of a new album, like Reality, that mixes tracks from that and recent albums with older songs and hits
- The obscurities tour, where the emphasis is solely on new material and obscure old stuff.

I'd say the vast majority of tours from current artists fall into the "normal" category.

Of course, there are degrees, and sometimes you could argue that one "normal" tour is nearer to a Greatest Hits type tour while another is nearer to an obscurities tour. Using that yardstick, I'd consider just about every Bowie tour ever (not the Tin Machine tours though) as "normal" tours except for S+V. They were always in support of the current album, there were always some older hits and classics (even on the first solo tours after S+V for Outside and Earthling). However, there's no doubt that Serious Moonlight was nearer to the Greatest Hits end of the spectrum, and Outside towards the obscurities end, but for me, both fall within the "normal" range.

And I'd have Reality either bang in the centre or slightly to the obscurities side. He may have played lots of hits and classics, but I think he's also played more new and newish material, and obscurities, than most comparable artists do or would on a tour at this stage of the game.

Slan libh,

Dara

Living means accepting the loss of one joy after another Vladimir Nabokov

NoControl
(kook)
02/11/04 06:41 AM
Re: Semantics [re: Dara]  

But by that definition, most major tours by major artists are Greatest Hits tours, so the term loses all distinguishing significance.

Most major artists, young or old, play some, most or even all their big hits every time they tour a new album. These are normal tours, not "Greatest Hits" tours.


Not at all. Why? Because most other artists don't tell their fans that they're not going to perform their hits anymore and then 13 years later play them again.

He may have played lots of hits and classics, but I think he's also played more new and newish material, and obscurities, than most comparable artists do or would on a tour at this stage of the game.

There's a difference between wanting to play newer material and having to play newer material. On this current tour, Bowie has to play newer material.

...don't tell god your plans...

globule2
(crash course raver)
02/11/04 09:30 AM
Re: Semantics [re: Dara]  

If, by your own definition, the Outside tour falls into the "normal" range, I'd be curious to see an example of an "obscurities" tour by a major act. Bowie was still keeping his word then and not playing any of the "retired" songs from 1990, so I'd have to categorize Outside as "obscurities".



Dara
(acolyte)
02/11/04 02:04 PM
Re: Semantics [re: globule2]  

In reply to:

If, by your own definition, the Outside tour falls into the "normal" range, I'd be curious to see an example of an "obscurities" tour by a major act.


I think they're rare almost to the point of not existing, but the best example I can think of is Springsteen's Tom Joad tour.


In reply to:

Bowie was still keeping his word then and not playing any of the "retired" songs from 1990, so I'd have to categorize Outside as "obscurities".


Bowie stuck to his word in so far as he didn't include hits he'd played on the Sound And Vision tour, but he did include hits, some of them much bigger hits than some of the songs he did on Sound And Vision.

On the Outside tour, as well as playing the three UK Top 40 hit singles Outside spawned, he played:
- Under Pressure (a UK number one)
- Scary Monsters (UK #20)
- Jump They Say (UK #9)
- Boys Keep Swinging (UK #7)
- DJ (UK #29)
- Diamond Dogs (UK #21).

In fact, of the 31 songs that Pegg lists as regulars on that tour, 9 were UK top 40 hits, a further 6 could be classified as classic oldies or well known songs (Look Back In Anger, Breaking Glass, Andy Warhol, The Man Who Sold The World, My Death, Moonage Daydream), a further 8 were from the current album, two were the NIN songs he did with them, leaving only 6 genuine "obscure Bowie oldies". Not really all that different, percentagewise, from Reality.

Slan leat,

Dara


Living means accepting the loss of one joy after another Vladimir Nabokov

NoControl
(kook)
02/11/04 06:37 PM
Re: Completely wrong [re: Dara]  

Bowie stuck to his word in so far as he didn't include hits he'd played on the Sound And Vision tour, but he did include hits, some of them much bigger hits than some of the songs he did on Sound And Vision.

Dead wrong. That's the funniest thing I've heard all day! Thanks for that!

On the Outside tour, as well as playing the three UK Top 40 hit singles Outside spawned...

The songs performed from Outside were obligatory and had to be played. And that includes Jump (They Say) - since there was no tour for Black Tie, White Noise.

... a further 6 could be classified as classic oldies or well known songs (Look Back In Anger, Breaking Glass, Andy Warhol, The Man Who Sold The World, My Death, Moonage Daydream)...

None of those songs are well known songs apart from Breaking Glass (and maybe even Moonage Daydream) and most likely wouldn't be recognized at all beyond his hard-core fan base.

Not really all that different, percentagewise, from Reality.

That's the second funniest thing I've heard all day! Thanks for that!



...don't tell god your plans...

Edited by NoControl on 02/11/04 06:39 PM (server time).



pablopicasso
(kook)
02/11/04 06:45 PM
Re: Semantics [re: NoControl]  

In reply to:

Not at all. Why? Because most other artists don't tell their fans that they're not going to perform their hits anymore and then 13 years later play them again.



Since when did we believe that statement?


So long child, it's awful dark
I never felt the sun
I dread to think of when
When the wind blows




NoControl
(kook)
02/11/04 06:51 PM
Re: Semantics [re: pablopicasso]  

We, as in?

...don't tell god your plans...


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