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   >> Views and Questions
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th0mas
(acolyte)
01/29/04 08:02 AM
Re: More Statistics [re: globule2]  

In reply to:

but I'd define a casual fan as someone who doesn't look for setlists on the web


yes, but i would not underestimate the "second hand" effect. the more people who are not really fans and just went there (like nogames girlfriend :-)) and leave the concert with a big smile the more people will get "infected". also people coming from the media business will be more interested if the target group gets larger so there will be more hype and promotion when the first concerts turned out to be amazing. i bet the Heathen tour last year had more effect on the concerts than any setlist could have had but i would not underestimate the effect of radiostations playing more bowie hits after having them in the current bowie set.
apart from this i guess the tour is also promotion for the BOB discs. and also vice-versa the tour is promoted by the BOB releases.

another thing: i have no ideas about any numbers but this time it did not seem as if people tried to sell tickets before the concert. perhaps last time i just went there earlier so i missed the re-sellers this time. but i had the feeling that it was much better sold than the heathen tour.
on the other hand there were still tickets left in online sale a few days before the concert. but that of course was just berlin which is much closer to copenhagen than north america.


"Have you tried... not being a mutant?"

Dara
(acolyte)
01/29/04 12:05 PM
Re: More Statistics [re: th0mas]  

In reply to:

i bet the Heathen tour last year had more effect on the concerts than any setlist could have had


I agree with that. Bowie's been gradually moving away from the "no hits" thing ever since Outside (even the Outside tour included a few hits, and Earthling more so), really catching steam around Hours and Glastonbury, so really this tour is a continuation of that strategy rather than the abrupt volte face some seem to think.

There's no doubt that Bowie's stated "no hits" policy in the past cast a damper on ticket sales and appeal to the more general audience, but that's very much in the past. Even those who remember it will have been reassured, not by rehearsal setlists or setlists from other countries which as others have rightly said only we hardcores hear of, but by reports of concerts from the last few years and the PR Bowie quickly put out making it clear he'd be doing some hits and classics as well as new suff, dutifully passed on by local media.

Slan libh,

Dara

Living means accepting the loss of one joy after another Vladimir Nabokov

dice
(every nation's refugee)
01/29/04 01:53 PM
Re: More Statistics [re: Dara]  

general response to recent posts:

it's silly to think that the unexpectedly strong attendance has much to do with setlists on the current tour (as opposed to his known general willingness to play the hits in recent years)

the hits will ALWAYS get the best crowd response, irrespective of artist or audience (unless a very small number are in attendance). most diehards will applaud the hits even if they're tired of them

i think the fact that this is his first "big event" solo headliner world tour since sound and vision might have a lot to do with it. more publicity, older fans who have maybe gone astray during the youth-oriented 90s are drawn back in for "one night only."

show bush the door in 2004: please contribute to http://www.moveon.org
current approval rating: 51%

christiancode
(mortal with potential)
01/29/04 08:22 PM
Re: Painting yourself into a corner [re: Dara]  

very few people seem to know that tin machine ranges among the five best selling bowie albums, as stated by reeves gabrels in the mojo bowie special. so i reckon emi weren't that unhappy with bowie, but bowie unhappy with them as he had been with rca and would later be with bmg and virgin.



poorsoul
(acolyte)
01/29/04 11:42 PM
Re: Defy My Money [re: Dara]  

In reply to:

Let's Dance = best album he could make at a point in his career and life (approaching midlife crisis) when his inspiration was at its lowest ebb.



When you consider Under Pressure and the soundtrack version of Cat People that had (if I recall correctly) been recorded the year before, it's clear how much better Let's Dance could've been. The same goes for Tonight and Never Let Me Down with tracks like When The Wind Blows, This Is Not America and Girls. I'd rather listen to the songs from Labyrinth than most of the other album tracks from that decade.

Visitors From Alternate Universes Are People, Too

poorsoul
(acolyte)
01/29/04 11:52 PM
More Money [re: Dara]  

In reply to:

The scale of its success took everyone, not least Bowie, by surprise.



Just because he seemed to be surprised doesn't mean that he really war or that that wasn't his intention. Do you think he would've come out and told the world that he just wanted to be ultrapopular and make a load of money no matter how uninventive his music would become?

In reply to:

Anyone who thinks Tonight was a calculated attempt to woo the mainstream more obviously doesn't remember much about the mainstream circa 1984.



So what was Tina Turner doing on it?

Visitors From Alternate Universes Are People, Too

NoControl
(kook)
01/30/04 00:03 AM
Re: Painting yourself into a corner [re: christiancode]  

Where, in mainland Europe? It certainly didn't sell shit in North America...

...don't tell god your plans...

EJSundayModerator
(acolyte)
01/30/04 06:22 AM
Set List Categories [re: dice]  

Another general response:

To clear the view a little I have tried to split a current Bowie set list into categories: The Big Hits, the well known songs, the less known, and the new and "unpopular" songs.

I picked the long Dublin night as that's the one that's going to be relased and therefore defines the best current live set as the man sees it himself.

The songs are put into the categories following the assumed preferences and tastes of an assumed wide range Bowie crowd in contrast to an experts crowd we have here on TW. Some may argue on the categorization of individual songs as I in fact do myself but I hope you will agree in general..

Anyway, here are the 35 songs from Dublin:

Best Ofs:

1 Rebel Rebel
2 Fame
3 China Girl
4 Under Pressure
5 Life On Mars?
6 Ashes To Ashes
7 Changes
8 Heroes
9 Hang On To Yourself
10 Ziggy Stardust

Well known:

1 Be My Wife
2 The Man Who Sold The World
3 Hallo Spaceboy
4 Breaking Glass
5 Iím Afraid Of Americans
6 Five Years
7 All The Young Dudes


Less known:

1 Cactus
2 Sister Midnight
3 Afraid
4 Fantastic Voyage
5 Sunday
6 5:15 The Angels Have Gone
7 Loving The Alien
8 Heathen (The Rays)
9 Slip Away

New and "unpopular"
stuff:

1 New Killer Star
2 Reality
3 Days
4 The Loneliest Guy
5 Battle For Britain
6 Fall Dog Bombs The Moon
7 The Motel
8 Never Get Old
9 Bring me The Disco King

Adding them up the Best Ofs and the well known tracks are 18 in number, providing half of the show.

The other half is made of less known, brand new or "unpopular" stuff.

In my view this a pretty good balance for a show that is intended to please 10.000 people of a wide range of taste. Some may argue he is playing it safe by backing up the "risky" half with the "commercial" half, but I would argue that there is loads of people that enjoy much of both parts. Myself included.

"A Reality" is definitely not a Best Of tour as the figures clearly show. It may appear too balanced for those who are still stuck in the "Outside" phase of Bowie - but for those who are happy with many of Bowie's different eras the current tour is a very good deal.



And I want to believe
In the madness that calls 'now'


Dara
(acolyte)
01/30/04 06:52 AM
Hits schmits [re: christiancode]  

In reply to:

very few people seem to know that tin machine ranges among the five best selling bowie albums, as stated by reeves gabrels in the mojo bowie special


Yeah, but apart from Reeves' statement (and Bowie's back when it suited him to portray Tin Machine as commercially successful), there's almost no evidence for this assertion. Certainly the charts and certifications don't support it.

In reply to:

so i reckon emi weren't that unhappy with bowie, but bowie unhappy with them as he had been with rca


Bowie's difficulties placing Tin Machine with a label are pretty well documented in the various bios. Fact is the album ended up coming out on London Records, which would be well down anyone's list.


And NoControl:

In reply to:

But what no one knew was the amount of hits he's be doing. I thought DB would be playing only a handful of them, like the past few years, but no, he's practically played all of them.


Hardly. Bowie's only had 13 US Top 40 hits. Anyone else putting together a Greatest Hits tour would probably play all thirteen, and fill the rest of the setlist with the best known of the rest. In actual fact, Bowie's only performed 6 of his 13 US Top 40 hits, and filled out the setlists with over 20 "non hits". And it's not even as if he plays all six every night.

In the UK, where he's had about 60 Top 40 hit singles, he's played an even smaller fraction of them, and still found room for lots of non-hits.

To show the tightrope he's on between the expectations of hardcore fans and those of everyone else, consider this quote from an Alameda Times Star review of the San Jose tour, entitled "Bowie stingy with his big hits":

Bowie was a bit stingy with the big hits and used much of his two-hour-plus show to delve into a number of rarities, covers and new songs.
That's his choice and he's certainly earned the right to play whatever he deems appropriate. But the result was an uneven performance that lacked in momentum and cohesiveness. There were some great moments, but the crowd had to fight through too much clutter to get to them.
In turn, the audience members reacted at times as if they were watching the spin cycle at the local Laundromat.


Slan libh,

Dara

Living means accepting the loss of one joy after another Vladimir Nabokov

bowiefanpeter
(acolyte)
01/30/04 09:06 PM
Re: More Statistics [re: globule2]  

I can give you a list of reasons that non-net savvy fans know that Bowie was doing a fan freindly tour. These are all events from recent memory, or since most casual fans last saw Bowie live. US/Canada centric post, btw.

-Poughkepsie
-Riverside
-Europe opening
-CC heavily promoting the tour.
-recent tv appearances
-last 3 albums were "commercial"(ie: no NIN or d'nb postering)
-99 reissues
-30th reissues
-BOB cd
-BOB dvd
-Marathon tou
-Marathon tour book
-AREA2 tour setlists
-AREA2 reviews that were almost DB only write-ups
-New record label(db feeling optimistic)
-WTC appearance in oct 2001(america/heroes)
-cited as most influentiona musician in UK mag
-new baby
-Glasto press
-BBC release with 2000 show
-Roseland reviews
-print interview friendliness
-99 dates setlists
-Kit Kat Klub show in US radio '99
-Bermuda show on US radio ' 02
-Storytellers '99 show
-NetAid gig '99
-Bowie Bonds meaning Bowie was interesting in making money
-Dumping Reeves, along with any lasting association with TM
-Borneo Horns on heathen, like 83 tour. Mentioned in Heathen press release.
-Pete Townshend on Heathen

I would think that all fans attending a show would have seen, heard, or heard about a couple of the above mentions events. About 25-30% of these events I read about in newspapers like the Vancouver Province. Some of them should have been printed elsewhere in Canada and less so in the States.

BFP




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