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BowieTalk
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NoControl
(electric tomato)
04/08/04 01:03 AM
Re: This is TOO Easy... new [re: JonnyManic]  

"Your idea of innovation is switching to the left hand to wank when looking at whatever indecent child website you're looking at on any given day."

Ahh, another jerk-off who doesn't know what they're talking about and talking out of his asscrack!

"Here's your challenge: Provide succint aesthetic reasons for Zappa being better than Bowie"

Better is subjective and hence irrelevant.


", or more experimental. Relate in terms of tonailty, structural change, chord progression, sound texturing, production techniques etc. Then relate the music to it's social and cultural roots and influences. Examine the long term effects of the music on popular and musical culture. Then, if you can provide some kind of half coherent argument to sustain even one of your mind-numbingly ignorant assertions, you can have a lollipop. See, anyone can have an opinion, but an objectionable cunt like you who thinks he has found some kind of aesthetic objective truth simply needs to get a little humble. Or kill themself."

Ok then...

Frank's revolutionary innovations & experimentations included every conceivable style of music possible, including fusions of: jazz, big band, r&b, soul, avant-garde, country & classical.

His creations and supporting technologies in their inceptions and earliest of stages, included:

~ xenochrony: process whereby mixing live & studio parts together to create instant compositions
~ rock theatre: long before Alice Cooper & David Bowie were bringing theatrics into rock music, as early as '67, Frank was doing things as crazy as inviting fans onstage in what he called "audience participation" - sometimes performing the show while The Mothers & him sat in the audience!
~ guitar textures and effects: Frank hadn't even heard of Hendrix when he started using the wah-wah pedal, let alone manipulating his guitars into "mutants"
~ digital technology: was the first patron of such the second it was invented in 1980
~ compact discs: the very first artist to release CDs in the early eighties
etc...

Do you want more or do you need a napkin to wipe the egg off of your face?

"Otherwise just go home to mother, I'm sure she's getting lonely and needs tucking in..."

Is someone who likes to worship Bowie on a daily basis shitting his pants because his "rock god" is being criticized?

A wrong assumption of myself on the part of you.

Marquis
(acolyte)
04/08/04 11:18 AM
Yeah, well Bowie invented the fax machine! new [re: NoControl]  

In reply to:

His creations and supporting technologies in their inceptions and earliest of stages, included . . . compact discs: the very first artist to release CDs in the early eighties


I don't know which is funnier, the language mangling going on in the first line, or that you're giving Zappa credit for compact disc technology. Amazing, truly.

Also, can you provide some detail as to why inviting people on stage was so groundbreaking or 'crazy'? Or at least some evidence that this never happened prior to 1967?


All the things I said I didn't know and didn't want to know
That you told me just to tell me later that you told me so
Come flooding back to me now


Cassiel
(wild eyed peoploid)
04/08/04 12:11 PM
Re: Yeah, well Bowie invented the fax machine! new [re: Marquis]  

In reply to:

you're giving Zappa credit for compact disc technology.


To give the loon his due; (no matter how much it pains me) I don't think he's actually suggesting that Zappa invented the CD, rather that he was one of the first artists to release music on the new format.

I don't think this is actually true (according to my information the first ever commercial CD release was "52nd Street" by Billy Joel in Japan on the 10th January 1982 and the first US release was either Bruce Springsteen's "Born in the USA" or the "Edison CD Sampler" both March 1983) but then NoControl's not a man to let a little accuracy get in the way of his pursuit of the "Most spittle sprayed over a PC Screen in a single afternoon" World Record!

Read more books!

pablopicasso
(electric tomato)
04/08/04 12:32 PM
Re: Yeah, well Bowie invented the fax machine! new [re: Cassiel]  

What I want to know is, who woke him up again!!!



I believe in the Power of Good
I Believe in the State of Love
I Will Fight For the Right to be Right
I Will Kill for the Good of the Fight for the Right to be Right


Cassiel
(wild eyed peoploid)
04/08/04 12:39 PM
What I want to know is, who woke him up again!!! new [re: pablopicasso]  

I imagine it would have been one of those Godzilla/Quatermass and the Pit scenarios; man exploring rashly where he's "just not meant to go" wakens something evil and disgusting from the depths! Underwater nuclear testing would be my guess.

Read more books!

pablopicasso
(electric tomato)
04/08/04 12:44 PM
Re: What I want to know is, who woke him up again!!! new [re: Cassiel]  

Damn them, did they not see the signs, did they not think what they were doing?
Now all of humanity will be lost because of man's foollishness.

I believe in the Power of Good
I Believe in the State of Love
I Will Fight For the Right to be Right
I Will Kill for the Good of the Fight for the Right to be Right


Marquis
(acolyte)
04/08/04 12:49 PM
Always On the Ball new [re: pablopicasso]  

From the Onion's News in Brief:

Frank Zappa Fan Thinks You Just Haven't Heard The Right Album
NEDERLAND, CO—In spite of your insistence that you are not into Frank Zappa, avid fan Roger Von Lee believes that you would change your mind if you heard the right album. "You're prejudiced, because the only Zappa you know is 'Valley Girl' and 'Don't Eat The Yellow Snow,'" Von Lee told you Tuesday. "Seriously, you need to check out Hot Rats or Absolutely Free. Zappa and the Mothers were at their peak, and Zappa's jazz-rock fusion experiments predate Bitches Brew. That'll totally convince you that Zappa's the shit." Von Lee added that if those two don't get under your skin, he can recommend another 15 to 20 albums that will for sure.



All the things I said I didn't know and didn't want to know
That you told me just to tell me later that you told me so
Come flooding back to me now


SysiyoModerator
(thunder ocean)
04/08/04 01:01 PM
OMD! [re: Marquis]  



KArt // Project Michelangelo // LiveJournal

JonnyManic
(stardust savant)
04/08/04 04:11 PM
sterilise this man and his family. fast [re: NoControl]  

In reply to:

Better is subjective and hence irrelevant


Pretty much the entire point of my post, lame-brain.

In reply to:

Frank's revolutionary innovations & experimentations included every conceivable style of music possible


You clearly have no understanding of musical theory claim that Zappa experimented in every style possible. How about dodecaphony? Minimalism?

In reply to:

xenochrony: process whereby mixing live & studio parts together to create instant compositions


Two points:
1) That's not what really Xenochrony is. Xenochrony is when you combine seperately recorded musicians who have no common reference point to create a piece, regardless of the context of the recording.
2) Zappa coined the phrase but he certainly didn't invent it. It's generally accepted that Charles Ives was the first composer to employ xenochrony back in the first two decades of the 20th century.

In reply to:

rock theatre


This is too stupid an assertion to pay much credit to. I'd simply point you in the direction of the likes of Little Richard and Jerry Lee Lewis.

In reply to:

guitar technique


True, Zappa did much to develop guitar textures, though others were certainly ahead of him in the importance and quality of their developments in my opinion (as a guitarist).

In reply to:

digital technology/compact discs


zzz. I note your inability to comment on Zappa's playing and compositional style in any concrete terms.

The point I was trying to make (other than the fact that you're an imbecilic waste of natural resources) is that your attempt to offer any aesthetic judgement as a matter of fact, supported by nothing other than your typically retarded bluster is typical of someone who has no idea what they are talking about.

I personally agree that from a technical point of view, Zappa is clearly a more innovative musician than Bowie. Mind you, he pales compared to John MacLaughlin or Hendrix. But this is all just opinion. Problem is, you're such a fucking plum that you think your opinion on music is somehow better than the others here who, when they offer they're own opinion, you try to slate them with mentally-deficient ad hominem insults about how they don't like to see their rock god attacked. Never mind the fact that TW as a whole is usually very critical of Bowie's output when they think it's below par. But why let reality get in the way of the fact that you're utterly incapable of formulating an argument or an insult because 90% of your brain cells have been replaced with backed-up sperm from sucking your dad's cock too much.

Now, how do you like them apples?

He's the son of a bad man...

NoControl
(electric tomato)
04/08/04 09:15 PM
Re: sterilise this man and his family. fast [re: JonnyManic]  

"Pretty much the entire point of my post, lame-brain."

Well, if you could read properly, you'd notice from the beginning of this thread that I wasn't saying that Frank was better, even though it's my opinion he is. I was answering Adam's question, moron.

"You clearly have no understanding of musical theory claim that Zappa experimented in every style possible. How about dodecaphony? Minimalism?"

You clearly are speaking out of your ass once again.

Even though Frank didn't like Minimalism, he utilized it in a somewhat vague way when performing his "air sculptures". He juxstaposed simple chord progressions with complex solos. Listen to Shut Up & Play 'Yer Guitar, Guitar & Trance-Fusion for example.

As far as Dodecaphony is concerned, he's variated that as well is similar ways.

"Two points:
1) That's not what really Xenochrony is. Xenochrony is when you combine seperately recorded musicians who have no common reference point to create a piece, regardless of the context of the recording."


I know that. There's many variations to it. You're just expounding on what I'm saying.


"2) Zappa coined the phrase but he certainly didn't invent it. It's generally accepted that Charles Ives was the first composer to employ xenochrony back in the first two decades of the 20th century."

I didn't say he did.

"This is too stupid an assertion to pay much credit to. I'd simply point you in the direction of the likes of Little Richard and Jerry Lee Lewis."

Oh so, Jerry Lee Lewis and Little Richard invited people on the stage and gave them their instruments to perform a concert's worth of material while they watched from the audience?


"True, Zappa did much to develop guitar textures, though others were certainly ahead of him in the importance and quality of their developments in my opinion (as a guitarist)."

Not even close.


"zzz. I note your inability to comment on Zappa's playing and compositional style in any concrete terms."

I said you did you want more? I guess that's a yes? So, let's get on with it...

Apart from the synclavier (which he was the very first patron of), the guitar was Zappa's favourite instrument and he utilized his "chicken and spider" approach to form his unique ability to play. From the way he held his pick - by pluck the strings and not picking them to create a punching like effect, to the way he invented solos on the spot during live shows (sometimes for 10 minutes straight!), instead of playing the same solo repeatedly night after night. They are in themselves, many of his Zappaisms.

Xylophones were a major melodic component to his art too - as the flourishes were Zappaesque and instantly recognizable.

He also found ways to incorporate orchestra/classical music in his music. He was one of the first (if not the first) to record with an symphonic orchestra on Lumpy Gravy (1967), but more so in dissonant atmospheres with dense clusters.

Zappa was the first rock musician to bring obscene/profane lyrics into popular music in the mid-sixties. He was talking about things people weren't even dreaming about.

Zappa recorded the very first rock double album with Freak Out! in 1965.

Want more? Or do you need another napkin?


"The point I was trying to make (other than the fact that you're an imbecilic waste of natural resources) is that your attempt to offer any aesthetic judgement as a matter of fact, supported by nothing other than your typically retarded bluster is typical of someone who has no idea what they are talking about."

You really need to stop talking now. It's more than likely quite embarrassing for you at this point...

"I personally agree that from a technical point of view, Zappa is clearly a more innovative musician than Bowie.

The only intelligent thing you've said thus far.

" Problem is, you're such a fucking plum that you think your opinion on music is somehow better than the others here who, when they offer they're own opinion, you try to slate them with mentally-deficient ad hominem insults about how they don't like to see their rock god attacked. Never mind the fact that TW as a whole is usually very critical of Bowie's output when they think it's below par. But why let reality get in the way of the fact that you're utterly incapable of formulating an argument or an insult because 90% of your brain cells have been replaced with backed-up sperm from sucking your dad's cock too much."

Your problem is that you assume too much. You have much in common with many of the members of this site. Insults are your only way of somehow reassuring yourself that you're right, when in fact you have no logical rebutal at all.

"Now, how do you like them apples?"

I like slurpees myself.



A wrong assumption of myself on the part of you.

Edited by NoControl on 04/08/04 09:17 PM (server time).




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