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White Prism
(electric tomato)
04/30/04 04:27 PM
Riley's got a grammar complex new [re: riley]  

In reply to:

but the 'chosen people' thing is consistant with all [most?] old testimant religions.. therefore there are groups of people who are not chosen people.. if they get into heaven as well what do jews get out of being the chosen people? is it a 'the meek will inherit the earth' thing? do they get first dibs on the pool table when they get to heaven?


I dunno, but there does seem to be an inconsistency with being a chosen people yet not seeing themselves better than other people. What I had in mind when I wrote that last post was ZM’s comment:

It never means that they are better than any other people, although some Jews take it this way. But hey, there are assholes in every faith.

Having since read ZM’s earlier comments about Jewish persecution and the Torah, I can only assume that the reason why Jews were chosen was that they were believed to be non-aggressive, peaceful role-models to be aspired to by other races. This supposed peacefulness goes someway to answering Starlite’s point; it’s more ‘turn the other cheek’ than fighting force with force. My own preferred reading is that the genesis of the Torah is not supposed to be entrenched in factual detail of actual persecution (so don’t bring Hitler into this), but rather a moral or example to be learned. On the other hand, I despise ideas of nationhood and religion.

In reply to:

'Re: White man's got a God complex' thats a very predictable biggoted assumption. .. i just have general revulsion to the old testimant.


If I were to just sift through your abominable spelling . . . the phrase ‘white man’s got a God complex’ is actually a Last Poets’ song. Bowie likes the Last Poets.

Weave a circle round him thrice,
And close your eyes with holy dread


zigbot
(crash course raver)
04/30/04 05:16 PM
Re: Riley's got a grammar complex [re: White Prism]  

In reply to:

Bowie likes the Last Poets


So this post is about Bowie. Whew!

zigbot

Coco82
(absolute beginner )
05/01/04 02:59 AM
Re: Bowie, Ellen, and the Devil new [re: tonyinsf]  

I'm a Christian and wasn't offended by the statement. Since it was on Ellen it was a very light interview. I don't think David Bowie is inherently evil.

Edited by Coco82 on 05/01/04 03:03 AM (server time).



ZiggyMercury
(wild eyed peoploid)
05/01/04 04:33 AM
Kittens! new [re: White Prism]  

In reply to:

Having since read ZM’s earlier comments about Jewish persecution and the Torah, I can only assume that the reason why Jews were chosen was that they were believed to be non-aggressive, peaceful role-models to be aspired to by other races.



As much as I do like that interpretation, it's not the common belief. The Jews were to be that way after they received the Torah. According to www.jewfaq.com, they received it because:

"...G-d offered the Torah to all the nations of the earth, and the Jews were the only ones who accepted it. The story goes on to say that the Jews were offered the Torah last, and accepted it only because G-d held a mountain over their heads! (In Ex. 19:17, the words generally translated as "at the foot of the mountain" literally mean "underneath the mountain"!) Another traditional story suggests that G-d chose the Jewish nation because they were the lowliest of nations, and their success would be attributed to G-d's might rather than their own ability. Clearly, these are not the ideas of a people who think they are better than other nations. "

I make no apologies for being fabulous.

riley
(kook)
05/01/04 05:46 AM
Re: Riley's got a grammar complex new [re: White Prism]  

'I dunno, but there does seem to be an inconsistency with being a chosen people yet not seeing themselves better than other people.'

yep- can't have it both ways

'I can only assume that the reason why Jews were chosen was that they were believed to be non-aggressive, peaceful role-models to be aspired to by other races.'

who aren't as moral as the chosen people [yeah i know i'm repeating myself now ]

'If I were to just sift through your abominable spelling . . .'

kiss my arse

' the phrase ‘white man’s got a God complex’ is actually a Last Poets’ song. Bowie likes the Last Poets.'

damn it- i was trying to point out cultural hypocricey and it was a good opener.. you're no fun.

..3 ..2 ..1

poorsoul
(acolyte)
05/01/04 05:55 AM
Once new [re: ZiggyMercury]  

In reply to:

Anyway, let me pull out a book and list those seven rules.



Except if you're going to accept the validity of those rules, i.e. that there is some authority behind them, you have to accept the religion behind them. What's the point if they're to get into a heaven you don't believe in?

In reply to:

2) not to commit blasphemy



Except the only way to avoid this is to accept the Jewish conception of God so, again, if you're going to go that far, why not all the way? The same thing goes for idolatory, really, as it's an accepted part of some religions.

In reply to:

4) not to commit incest and adultery



What I'd like to know if there's a religious prohibition anywhere against rape.

As for the lists I linked to, I'll pick out some highlights for you when I have a bit of time to go through them more thoroughly.

Africa Is A Nation That Suffers From Incredible Disease



riley
(kook)
05/01/04 05:57 AM
Re: Snow new [re: ZiggyMercury]  

thanks for the seven rules.. it would be interesting to see what the moslem rules are now.. hopefully i'll be able to track them down somewhere.

..3 ..2 ..1

pablopicasso
(crash course raver)
05/01/04 05:59 AM
Pointless arguments new [re: ZiggyMercury]  

If anything is going to fuel more pointless arguments than which Bowie song is the best it is religion.
Basically everybody knows that THEY are right and anyone who disagrees with them are unbelievers.

We all have our different beliefs and this discussion is never going to go anywhere.

"Cutn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111!!!!!!!.!!!!!" PoorSoul 2004

Avatar courtesy of Nature_Boy

riley
(kook)
05/01/04 06:05 AM
Re: Once new [re: poorsoul]  

'4) not to commit incest and adultery

What I'd like to know if there's a religious prohibition anywhere against rape.'

probably not as women were seen as property and 'companions' to man therefore rape would have been considered as disrespecting another man's property and insulting his honour. i'll give credit though for forbidding incest- i guess you aren't allowed to rape your own daughter but all other women are fair game so long as they aren't married to another man.. that would be adultery.

..3 ..2 ..1

riley
(kook)
05/01/04 06:44 AM
Re: Kittens! new [re: ZiggyMercury]  

"...G-d offered the Torah to all the nations of the earth, and the Jews were the only ones who accepted it. The story goes on to say that the Jews were offered the Torah last, and accepted it only because G-d held a mountain over their heads! (In Ex. 19:17, the words generally translated as "at the foot of the mountain" literally mean "underneath the mountain"!)

underneath a mountain may just mean in a cave.

''Another traditional story suggests that G-d chose the Jewish nation because they were the lowliest of nations, and their success would be attributed to G-d's might rather than their own ability. Clearly, these are not the ideas of a people who think they are better than other nations. "'

considering 'humilty' is seen to be a quality held in the highest regard in all three religions mentioned and a sign of spiritual enlightenment and superiority.. it still comes across as a moral competion between religious groups trying to prove they're 'worthier'.

..3 ..2 ..1


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