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   >> Views and Questions
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zimmo
(wild eyed peoploid)
04/29/04 10:51 AM
Re: Bowie, Ellen, and the Devil [re: pianocraft]  

so the song sunday isnt about what he himself feels
whoise trial is it then
I can not just erase/forget what this song does
how i see it it is very buddhist and christian or just humanly compassionate (which is enough and works) in its own way
the "heathen" doesnt see what he wrote himself( without ink) or he erased it but it came from his own inside
maybe he just rejects his own original self his own souls inner view, a kind of spiritual self destruction or is just confused
hope the new religion isnt making product for money money money only (the outside) what you own to identify with in
the journey trough life the things you go trough to learn from the difference between fake and original your equations and system of measurements and weights your values and priorities
you might end up seeing noone you recognise in your mirror
poor man rich man famous man unknown real man, cause nothing remains in the end only the value of love in heart and soul





GodlessWonder
(wild eyed peoploid)
04/29/04 11:23 AM
Re: Bowie, Ellen, and the Devil [re: zimmo]  

In reply to:

Well why don't you just pop another DVD into your player,enjoy your life,eat drink and be merry.

Consider yourself lucky you are not in the third world, laying in the earth.


What has that got to do with religion in the third world? I think you have missed the point entirely. Again.


At least I'm not a whore

riley
(kook)
04/29/04 12:24 PM
Re: Snow [re: ZiggyMercury]  

In reply to:

Also, I shouldn't have said anything about the Jews being God's "chosen people". That aspect of Judaism is more complex and requires a good deal of qualification and explanation. Without that, it's a very confrontational and arrogant sounding thing (and was something that initially turned me off about the religion). For that I do apologize.


I appreciate you sharing your beliefs as I do not know much about Judaism and would like to make an objective judgement on it; I understand why you would be reluctant to elaborate on the 'chosen people' subject but as most organised religions consider themselves the 'chosen people' [including the nazis] .. what makes Judaism different from them and less exclusive?

..3 ..2 ..1

diamondogz74
(acolyte)
04/29/04 01:04 PM
Re: Bowie, Ellen, and the Devil [re: GodlessWonder]  

In reply to:

What has that got to do with religion in the third world? I think you have missed the point entirely. Again.


Well lets talk about missing points shall we ? incidently you posted in zimmos space, not mine, so less preaching please

You have totally missed the point, poorsoul fully understood my post, alas you did'nt again


______________________
Humming Rheingold
We scavenge up our clothes

______________________
London Bye Ta-Ta...

riley
(kook)
04/29/04 01:53 PM
Re: Bowie, Ellen, and the Devil [re: diamondogz74]  

my guess is athiesm probably isn't a big problem in the third world.. selfless missionaries are onto a sure thing but the parishioners keep dieing of starvation.. why they hold out on the condoms.. if they're going to up and die they should at least have the decency to multiply first [despite no resauces]; the bible says so.. so it must be good thing.

..3 ..2 ..1

strangeDivine
(stardust savant)
04/29/04 02:42 PM
Questions [re: ZiggyMercury]  

In reply to:

Heaven's Gate


I'm sure you were joking when you mentioned them, but I was actually a total believer in their philosophies circa 1999-2000. I still have a soft spot in my heart for them...

But your story sounds very similar to mine: particularly the gay bit. And many of the reasons that you mentioned as impetus for your conversion to Judiasm are the same things that sparked my interest in Gnostic Christianity. Have you studied Kabbalah at all? I'd like to know more about that. After gaining a greater knowledge of the non-cannocal, once forbidden Christian writings, I feel as though I can view everything else in a more (for me) helpful context. I don't necesarilly have to believe in the Christ of the Bible's historicity or believe in life after death at all times, to feel as though I'm progressing spiritually. Like mindfulness meditation and Tantra, it has direct application to my life now, regardless of whether some part of my consciousness will survive after supposed physical death.

The more agnostic I am in all respects, the more I feel as though I'm on the right track and the more spiritual I feel. Any time that I lean too much towards athiesm or monotheism/polytheism/henotheism, I feel unbalanced and annhiliated. I don't even necassarily believe that I exist. I fully accept the possibility that this existence that I perceive myself to be experiencing could be a total illusion. I don't simply apply agnosticism to traditional religion, it is my meta-outlook on everything.

And I hope you don't feel that we're picking apart your statements too much, but I'm just curious. What do you mean by the "choosen people"? Are you simply referring to the religion, a biological population, or both? I've heard that most people known as Jewish today are not genetically linked to the Semitic people of the Middle East, but are in fact descendants of people who lived in the Caucasus mountains region who mass converted to Judiasm a couple thousand years ago. I don't know if there's really any historical/genetic evidence for this, though. Has anyone else heard this?

And I could make the same choosen people claims about the West African traditions. Some estimate their religions to be among the oldest still practiced on Earth. And no one can deny that they have been given a pretty hard time.

FYI: The second coming has happened and Christ is living in Siberia

It's a campaign: it has nothing to do with art



riley
(kook)
04/29/04 02:51 PM
Re: Questions [re: strangeDivine]  

i haven't looked into Gnostic Christianity yet.. is that where eve is actually given credit for eating from the tree of knowledge rather than being condemned for it?

..3 ..2 ..1

strangeDivine
(stardust savant)
04/29/04 03:37 PM
Re: Questions [re: riley]  

This site has a lot of cool texts, if you're interested. The Hypostasis of the Archons is a rather cool Genesis-like gnostic creation story. Some of the parts are actually missing, as indicated by "[...]" occasionally, but it's amazing that these texts survived at all, as they were burried in the Egyptian desert in clay jars until the 1940s. In this story, the snake is the embodiment of the female spiritual principle, who brings divine knowledge (gnosis) to mankind, to help them ascend to the higher reality and end the rule of the lower beings who created this reality. In most of the gnostic myths, YHWH is cast as the arrogant "demiurge" who believes himself to be the only divine being, and who created man and the cosmos. Yet, he is very low on the chain.

And there is also a Gospel According to Mary Magdalene which is frustratingly incomplete.

Though I'd advise extreme non-literalism in all readings therein. I don't think the writers were fundamentalists.




It's a campaign: it has nothing to do with art



Coan_teen
(cracked actor)
04/29/04 04:40 PM
Attachment
Re: Station to Station Part II [re: RabbitFighter]  

My earlier comment about being offended (which was meant in jest) aside, I have to comment on this:

In reply to:

On the other hand, embracing the thought of such God is clearly a sign of lunacy. Atleast if you believe that the god in question is a benevolant entity...


I'm a born-again, Bible-reading, baptised, actively praying Jesus Freak. That said, I think a lot of Christians are deluding themselves. Our God is not a benevolent deity. He's a little calmer than in the Old Testament, but he's hardly a cream puff. There was no promise of peace on Earth. Christians are supposed to SUFFER for their faith. Look at Paul, for chrissakes.

The Bible talks about punishing people. A benevolent God would just forgive everybody for everything, regardless of belief. As it is, he threatens those who don't embrace him with eternal damnation, and those who do with lifelong alienation, persecution, and a constant battle to try and obey his laws.

Maybe, just maybe you can argue that He is a just deity. I don't know. But I'll laugh in the face of any Christian who tries to tell me that God is benevolent. Benevolence connotates altruism. Altruism: Unselfish concern for the welfare of others; selflessness. (Courtesy Dictionary.com)

Someone who offers you salvation in exchange for worship is not acting selflessly.

Of course, there have been a whole mess of arguments about the altruism of the person of Jesus. I'm not going to get into it.

We can't stop here. This is bat country.

RabbitFighter
(acolyte)
04/29/04 04:54 PM
Re: Station to Station Part II [re: Coan_teen]  

Well your views are pretty damn interesting and most surprisingly brutally honest which seems to be a rare quality for practising christian.
My question is: Why would you want to receive salvation from such harsh, not to mention cruel puppet master?

"yes, I think I will experience a light depression around 9:00 Wednesday which will worsen until 13:00, after which I will probably experience an elevation of mood"
StrangeDivine


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