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BowieTalk
   >> Views and Questions
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BigFatDog
(wild eyed peoploid)
08/13/04 07:49 AM
Re: Supporter or fan? new [re: Dara]  

In reply to:

If it were proven conclusively that Bowie was a pedophile fascist, and I came across someone who denied that, I wouldn't hold back arguing the case for the prosecution.


Without sounding like an arse-lick, fantastic post yet again.

Personally, I feel I have to be able to identify with Bowie, otherwise his, what would seem weird lyrics, would have no impact on me. I love to get pensive and really feel everything from his songs.

In reply to:

To sum up: to keep me buying and listening to his music, he just has to keep making good music


You've never bought a re-edition of anything?

I find that most Bowie fans are more than you're average music fan, for example, Low being fan's favourites not only for the quality of songs, but for the reprise of Bowie as a person at the time, and what the album represents.



Dara
(acolyte)
08/13/04 08:14 AM
Re: Supporter or fan? [re: BigFatDog]  

In reply to:

You've never bought a re-edition of anything?


I'm not a completist. I judge each rerelease on its merits: if it has a bonus track I want, or improved sound, I'll consider buying it. And grumbling about it, of course.

Slan leat,

Dara

"I love gossip; it's the way we gauge our moral place within society, it's integral to the way that we measure each other; it doesn't matter if it's based on fact or fiction." David Bowie

carsten
(kook)
08/13/04 09:41 AM
Re: Leaving Bowie [re: hangontoyourself]  

I'd guess I would have a severe problem if Bowie was found to be a child molester. I quite have a problem with the author of one of my favorite books - namely "Alice In Wonderland" - since I learned that he had a huge collection of nude pictures of underage girls.

Not sure if I would keep my record collection.

On the other side, I have no problem to admire Ezra Pound as one of great poets of the twentieth century despite his fascist phase (and see myself in good company with John Cale here 8^).

For public opinion, I guess it also has a lot to do with the nature of the offence - I guess child molesting will be bad for your reputation. The examples of people surviving affairs with seemingly consenting 15-years-old do not contradict to this -
the crime is to do something against someone's will, to do iit by force, and the younger the victim the more people will find it apalling.

The other thing is that it will also depend quite on the image a star projects of himself - for a person like Bowie drugs are quite what you expect him to do, while it might have killed the career of John Denver (instead an aeroplane did it for us).

/Carsten





SoulLoveChild
(stardust savant)
08/13/04 10:15 AM
Re: Leaving Bowie [re: Tin]  

In reply to:

However, if he ever harmed his daughter or Iman in any way, sexual or otherwise, that would end it


I was just flicking through the "Hello" cover feature when Lexie was born. We all know deep down he would never do anything like this to his two girls - those pics are so amazing, he is so in love with them both. It put the biggest smile on my face to see him so goddamn happy, it's quite infectious!


Get Bowie Back Downunder!
GBBD 2005 !!!!





Persilot
(crash course raver)
08/13/04 11:28 AM
Re: Leaving Bowie [re: jump93]  

In reply to:

Go back a few more decades to victorian times and people were married at around 14 years of age


Go back to medieval times and there are cases of twelve year old girls being betrothed, usually for political reasons of course, but still... twelve? The concept of childhood as we know it is actually a legacy of the Victorians. The idea that there should be a time of innocence and freedom of creativity etc.

"I'm not saying I didn't love you. Or that I'm happy that you're dead. But my doctor did advise you to keep a rifle by your bed. "

White Prism
(crash course raver)
08/13/04 01:36 PM
A loveable asshole? [re: Dara]  

In reply to:

(Krettis) More? explain that one please...


I did, in my second post. Unless you mean you want to see the original Nazi quotes, in which case search for ‘Adolf’ in the quotes forum.

In reply to:

(Dara) I think it goes to the nature of your fandom, personally. People are fans for different reasons - because they feel they identify with the artist, because he's attractive to them physically, because they like his persona. If you fall into one of those categories and something happens to make you doubt the basis of your fandom, then yes, I could see why you wouldn't be a fan any more.


I suppose I fit into the ‘identification’ category. I’m not attracted physically to Bowie (though I consider Ziggy’s use of make-up and the Duke’s appearance interesting to discuss) nor his persona (like Zigbot’s Manic Laughter thread) but, like I said, I’m curious about his ideas on art and politics and suchlike. Namely, I’ve bought quite a few albums from other artists he’s suggested (which were kinda helpful to see where’s coming from musically) and I guess from the few political snippets I’ve heard he’s fairly left-wing. Not that these things are essential in judging the quality of his music (there are quite a number of god-fearing musicians I like yet don’t identify with, and also a larger number I know no biography about whatsoever) but maybe it makes me judge him more leniently.

I suppose I see artists as having role outside of just their work. Potentially there’s a sphere of social/political commentary they can provide outside of their music and use to infuse and educate others with ideas. I’m not sure what this makes them . . . leaders? Role models?

In reply to:

But I don't particularly identify with Bowie. That was never the basis of my fandom. I don't "support" him like I support my favourite sports team. If it was announced that Arsenal was openly fascist (as, for example, SS Lazio are), then I'd quickly drop them. Because in supporting a sports team, identification is important.


Okay, but presumably you’d still have to admit liking Arsenal’s (or SS Lozio’s) style of football regardless to the ideas propagated beyond the pitch. There isn’t anything intrinsically fascist about the way they play (unless, say, SS Lazio adopt the much-underrated ‘swastika formation’ to intimidate their opponents?)

In reply to:

James Joyce . . . fucked up asshole


He was? To some extent he was pompous and vengeful and, at various times of his life, broke, drunken and refused to speak to his wife for several days at a time, but nothing as serious as the charges levelled at Glitter et al. If anything, my identity with Joyce would be through his views on art, nationalism, religion, abortion, etc., not on how long it took him to repay his loan to so-and-so. And he refused to pray at this mother’s request at her deathbed . . . Wow! Isn’t that great?!

By way of contrast, I find the religious elements of T.S. Eliot somewhat alienating. Sure, I can appreciate he used language in a highly dextrous way, that he was pioneering, and I certainly like to talk about him – I consider him ‘interesting’, to use a word you used frequently in your last post (I hope I’ve used it in a similarly lukewarm manner in this post) – but I’d stop short of saying I was a supporter or even a fan. Why? Quite possibly because I don’t identify and I find his particular brand of religion irksome. Though, as I mentioned earlier, I don’t draw the line at religion and my interpretation on how it operates in an individual is somewhat arbitrary. With that in mind, I guess my high opinion of Al Green is always subject to change; maybe my high opinion is based on the fact I know zilch about him and, when I do, one day I’ll never be able to listen to ‘Belle’ without it conjuring up all the annoying aspects of religious preaching.

Just to reiterate an earlier point: I’m pretty much convinced you have separated Bowie the artist and Bowie the person (I said I believed you in my opening post, right? ), but also that for many people (myself included) this is easier said than done.

No never, no never no more
will I trust the elves of Dunsimore


hangontoyourself
(electric tomato)
08/13/04 01:49 PM
Re: Leaving Bowie [re: Persilot]  

In reply to:

Elvis Preslay haveing a 15 year-old Prescilla Bouviere(later Presley) living at Graceland unchaperoned?


You learn something new every day...

In reply to:

Don't forget Bill Woods and 13 year old Mandy Smith.


Bill Wyman (it's Ronnie Wood)...In both of these cases no charges of molestation were pressed/proven and as both married the respective women later it is a bit different than Glitter's crimes...not that I'm advocating underage sex OBVIOUSLY but as there was no charge I think their examples are slightly tenuous.

If you think we're gonna make it...
http://groups.msn.com/keithism
DD74 is my idol

CharlieManson
(grinning soul)
08/13/04 02:44 PM
Re: Leaving Bowie [re: hangontoyourself]  

Bowie could start murdering pregnant women and I'd still love Ching a ling.


______________
Helter Skelter
______________
DD74 is my father


bowiefanpeter
(the voyeur)
08/13/04 04:32 PM
Re: Leaving Bowie [re: CharlieManson]  

What if Bowie got a brazilain model pregnant anf got divorced from Iman? it is possible.....

Then would anybody here dislike DB?

BFP



Tin
(cracked actor)
08/13/04 04:44 PM
Re: Leaving Bowie [re: SoulLoveChild]  

That's why I came up with such an improbable scenario. Stuff of a very bad b-movie or book. It's beyond apparent that he's in love and in it for the duration.

Actually, I can't imagine throwing out any Bowie from present on back, even if he did suddenly go insane and tour with Spammy Hagger Halen or some other god-awful sell-out tactic. I'd just stop following his current works.

Off topic, SLC... I just had a small epiphany on Underworld and why I lurve them so much... formed out of the rubble that was Freüer, who I greatly enjoyed back in the '80s. I'm slow on the uptake.

It is my opinion and I am unanimous in this, because it is my opinion, which is, in fact, mine.


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