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sonofsilence
(acolyte)
01/31/05 11:28 AM
When Has Bowie Not Got His Own Way? new  

Not that he's a demanding type of person. But there have been times when he hasnt got his way. like in 1978 when he wanted brian Eno to tour with him sbut he never did. Im sure Bowie was a bit pissed by that.

And then in 1983 when Stevie Ray Vaughan never went on the road with him.

Also the fact that Kraftwerk never collaborated with him, i beleive he was really keen on teh idea himself.

Check out My Website The Silent View

BigFatDog
(wild eyed peoploid)
01/31/05 11:33 AM
Re: When Has Bowie Not Got His Own Way? new [re: sonofsilence]  

He was really keen on the release of Toy yet it was shelved.



kingsteved
(crash course raver)
01/31/05 12:48 PM
Re: When Has Bowie Not Got His Own Way? new [re: BigFatDog]  

The refusal from Mrs. Orwell for the 1984 musical is another example of him not getting his way.



SysiyoModerator
(thunder ocean)
01/31/05 01:20 PM
Kling and Klang new [re: sonofsilence]  

Bowie sacked Vaughan. He undoubtedly was pissed with Vaughan, but it seemed quite clear Vaughan couldn't have done the tour.

Also for Kraftwerk collaboration, it seems it wasn't Bowie who was most keen on the idea but Kraftwerk themselves (not that Bowie wouldn't have wanted to collaborate). And Bowie did get to visit Kling Klang Studio as one of the few people ever allowed to visit the place, and he was on close terms with Kraftwerk for msot of the 1977 and '78. As I've pointed out elsewhere, it's even possible that a Bowie/Kraftwerk collaboration piece exists, but neither party was satisfied enough with it to have it published. Considering we're talking of two of the most secrecive acts in pop music, it's not surprising the recording hasn't surfaced even though it would undoubtedly have notable mass appeal. If it really exists, all this is obviously theory.

And for times when Bowie couldn't get his way... in 1976 Michael Rother, the guitarist of Neu! (another German group who arguably were a bigger influence on Bowie during the late 70's than Kraftwerk) refused to play guitar on the Low sessions.

KArt | Project Michelangelo | LiveJournal

EJSundayModerator
(acolyte)
01/31/05 01:51 PM
Just Did Not Do It new [re: sonofsilence]  

I refused to buy "Tonight" on CD. The only exclusion of my vinyl to digital Bowie update. That should teach him a lesson.

And I want to believe
In the madness that calls 'now'


pablopicasso
(acolyte)
01/31/05 02:01 PM
Re: Just Did Not Do It new [re: EJSunday]  

Well I didn't get Tonight until the end of 03, so I did my bit too

I fly to the nearest bar

Strawman
(acolyte)
01/31/05 03:19 PM
I bet you've got it really new [re: EJSunday]  

In reply to:

I refused to buy "Tonight" on CD. The only exclusion of my vinyl to digital Bowie update.


I always had you down as a completist.

Especially being a German & all.



EJSundayModerator
(acolyte)
01/31/05 04:07 PM
What We Are new [re: Strawman]  

You see, life's not all cliches.
How many tattoos have you got, by the way?

And I want to believe
In the madness that calls 'now'


Pythonis
(electric tomato)
01/31/05 06:08 PM
Re: What We Are new [re: EJSunday]  

Show us the battleship!

Andy, can you get me a cup of coffee? And a drummer?
1.Outside 1.die tO us 1.dO sue us 1.dO tie us

globule2
(crash course raver)
01/31/05 11:04 PM
Re: What We Are new [re: Pythonis]  

Kraftwerk wouldn't open for him in '76.



Rocknrollinbitch
(mortal with potential)
02/01/05 03:27 AM
Re: When Has Bowie Not Got His Own Way? new [re: sonofsilence]  

What about when the band refused to go on stage at Philly in '74 when they found out there was to be a live release but no royalties for them. OK, they played in the end, but their performance has been described as 'pedestrian' on David Live, and legend has it that David threw a chair at one in anger......

What about Hermione leaving him? Does that count? He was reportedly devastated.



Dara
(acolyte)
02/01/05 06:10 AM
Oh my God, a funny German!!!! new [re: EJSunday]  

In reply to:

How many tattoos have you got, by the way?


I find that utterly hilarious, but it might just be the Guinness speaking. Yeah, I know I just got up (or rather came to), but I'm already on my twelfth!

Slan libh,

Dara

"There are Irish people all over the world. Or people who want to be."

Nature_Boy
(crash course raver)
02/01/05 06:32 AM
Re: When Has Bowie Not Got His Own Way? new [re: sonofsilence]  

How about fans walking out of Outside and Earthling concerts forcing Bowie to go back with the golden oldies for his next outings. Thats not getting your own way.

Its about time I had a signature

Tristan
(acolyte)
02/01/05 11:44 AM
Re: When Has Bowie Not Got His Own Way? new [re: Nature_Boy]  

The Earthling tour? I didn't see any fans leave the venue I was at. And the 2 Outside shows I attended, the only fans I saw leaving were NIN fans.



pablopicasso
(acolyte)
02/01/05 11:52 AM
Re: When Has Bowie Not Got His Own Way? new [re: Tristan]  

When he did his two concerts at the Hanover grand they were split up into two sets, a normal set and then a heavier 'drum and bass' set. On the first night, he did the normal set first and when he started doing the drum and bass stuff, some of the audience left. So on the second night he switched the order of the sets around so that they would have to stay to the end to hear the 'normal' songs.

I fly to the nearest bar

Tristan
(acolyte)
02/01/05 11:54 AM
Really? new [re: Sysiyo]  

In reply to:

Bowie sacked Vaughan. He undoubtedly was pissed with Vaughan, but it seemed quite clear Vaughan couldn't have done the tour.


I think you need to read chapter 10 "The Legend Of Ziggy Stardust And The Texas Kid" from the book Stevie Ray Vaughan: Caught In The Crossfire by Joe Nick Patoski and Bill Crawford.




Tristan
(acolyte)
02/01/05 12:01 PM
Re: When Has Bowie Not Got His Own Way? [re: pablopicasso]  

In reply to:

when he started doing the drum and bass stuff, some of the audience left.


I guess those weren't real fans, huh? He didn't do the drum & bass set at the venue I attended, but that alone would have been worth the price of a ticket.



SysiyoModerator
(thunder ocean)
02/01/05 02:13 PM
Re: Really? new [re: Tristan]  

In reply to:

I think you need to read chapter 10 "The Legend Of Ziggy Stardust And The Texas Kid" from the book Stevie Ray Vaughan: Caught In The Crossfire by Joe Nick Patoski and Bill Crawford.


That's what is says in all Bowie biographies. The info in Strange Fascination comes directly from an interview with Alomar.

KArt | Project Michelangelo | LiveJournal

WildWind
(acolyte)
02/01/05 03:34 PM
Then again I wasn't entirely sober new [re: pablopicasso]  

In reply to:

When he did his two concerts at the Hanover grand they were split up into two sets, a normal set and then a heavier 'drum and bass' set. On the first night, he did the normal set first and when he started doing the drum and bass stuff, some of the audience left. So on the second night he switched the order of the sets around so that they would have to stay to the end to hear the 'normal' songs.


I honestly can't remember whether I went on the first night or the second night, but I think it was the first night, and I don't recall people leaving after the first half. In any case, I was equally unable to breathe or move due to the crowd the entire show, so it couldn't have been that bad.

WW

Gene: Rock and roll is all about sexuality.
Randy: And demons.

Tristan
(acolyte)
02/01/05 03:39 PM
Re: Really? new [re: Sysiyo]  

And? I don't have that book, so why not share more than the vaugeness of your first post.



SysiyoModerator
(thunder ocean)
02/01/05 04:04 PM
Re: Really? new [re: Tristan]  

You're always so difficult. I'm not made of quotes you know. The thing you said about courtesy goes both ways, it's not like your post would have been reeking with information.

Well, just this once. The Alomar quote isn't as informative as I remembered, so here's the really meaningful part of Buckley's text (preceded by the Alomar quote which tells that Bowie and Vaughan weren't getting along very well during the rehearsals):

"Just a matter of days before the European tour was scheduled to open in Brussel on 29 May, Ray Vaughan was finally fired. There appear to have been a number of reasons for this. Firstly, Ray Vaughan found Bowie's 'no frinks, no drugs' dictate to be supremely hypocritical and told him so. -- There was also, or so it was rumoured, a dispute over his fee. For his part, Bowie found Vaughan's suggestion that his band, Double Trouble, should act as Bowie's support band impractical. Bowie: -- 'unfortunately he had a shyster of a manager at the time so for one reason or another I decided it wasn't going to work out. --'"

KArt | Project Michelangelo | LiveJournal

Tristan
(acolyte)
02/01/05 05:31 PM
Ah, come on Sys. new [re: Sysiyo]  

In reply to:

You're always so difficult.


Really? I find that hard to believe since today is the first time I've exchanged posts with you since last September.

In reply to:

it's not like your post would have been reeking with information.



My post wasn't intended to reek with info, seeing that I have posted excerpts from that chapter on *3* different ocassions in the past *6* years, rather it was to inform you that you should read chapter 10 "The Legend Of Ziggy Stardust And The Texas Kid" from the book Stevie Ray Vaughan: Caught In The Crossfire by Joe Nick Patoski and Bill Crawford. You might see another side to the story.

In reply to:

The Alomar quote isn't as informative as I remembered.


So much for the vaugness in your post, I reckon'. Anyway, thanx for being a bit more informative this time. It's nice to read both view points.




sonofsilence
(acolyte)
02/01/05 06:03 PM
For Argumants Sake new [re: Tristan]  

taken from THIS

...., Stevie got a phone call from another Montreux acquaintance. It was David Bowie. He was preparing to record another album in New York in January. Would Stevie Ray be interested in playing on it?
"Sure," he replied.
Stevie wasn't exactly a big fan of the Thin White Duke. He'd heard the Ziggy Stardust & the Spiders from Mars album just enough to hate it real bad. "Uncle John Turner used to play it all the time and rave about it," he said. "It didn't just make me not like it, it made me mad. The way it sounded made me mad and when I saw a picture of Bowie on that tour it made me mad."
But Stevie Ray accepted the invitation, which pissed off half the studio guitar pros in Manhattan. Who the hell was this primitive nobody? Bowie actually bragged that his discovery was so retro that he "considers Jimmy Page something of a modernist. The lad seems to have stopped at Albert Collins."
Running through an album's worth of material in three days at Jackson Browne's was one thing. Working with a perfectionist like David Bowie was another. By the time Stevie entered the picture, most of the album's instrumental tracks were complete. Stevie watched carefully from the sidelines as Bowie went into the studio, cut his vocals and polished the song's rough edges for another hour or two. Only then did he bring Stevie into the process, commanding Stevie to "plug that blues guitar in." Stevie obeyed, using Albert King as his guide. He required but a couple of takes to complete each track. Though Nile Rodgers from the dance band Chic was officially the producer, it was Bowie who was calling the shots.
Stevie played on a total of six selections, needing only two-and-a-half hours of studio time over a three-day period. The sessions gave him a chance to measure his worth against the top studio men in the business. On one cut, "Cat People," Stevie later said, "He wanted real slow, Brian Jones kind of parts. I wanted to rip and roar. We tried it and I thought we'd dumped it. The next time I heard the song it was there." For "China Girl" Stevie evoked the steamy sexuality of an exotic lover with his sensual guitar work. On "Let's Dance," the cut that became the first single off the album, Stevie copped Albert King's licks so closely that King later accused him half jokingly of "doin' all my shit on there."
"Bowie liked what I played," Stevie said in an interview in the Dallas Times-Herald. "When I started listening to the cuts, I had no idea at all what to play; even though he'd already shown me on the rehearsal tape what he wanted. So what I did was go in there and get the best tone I could out of the amp without blowing it up, which I did do to the first one, I killed it. But I finally realized just to go in there and play like I play and it would fit. I'd never played on anything like that before but it worked."
Still, the Texas kid wasn't exactly awe-struck. "I wouldn't necessarily go buy it. But I like what I've heard."
The album Let's Dance, Bowie's self-described "commercial debut," was an unprecedented smash, spinning off three hit singles and eventually selling more than 5 million copies, more than three times the number of records of Ziggy Stardust, Bowie's previous best seller. Bowie realized that a key ingredient of his unprecedented success was Stevie Ray Vaughan's guitar. He asked him to join his Serious Moonlight World Tour, which would last a year minimum.
Stevie was flattered by the invitation but torn. He was ferociously loyal to Chris and Tommy; but Bowie's invite held out the promise of propelling him into the rock 'n' roll big time, a world which Stevie claimed he despised while craving it deep in his soul. What would he do: Stick with the blues and work the clubs or tour the world with David Bowie? There was only one choice. When rehearsals for the Bowie tour began on a soundstage at the Los Colinas studios near Dallas in March of 1983, Stevie Ray Vaughanwas there.
While Stevie's naive artistry was a plus in making the album Let's Dance, it turned the rehearsals into a nightmare. Before His Ladyship, as Bowie was referred to behind his back, even arrived, Stevie got crossways with Carlos Alomar, the tour's musical director, Alomar was a lead guitarist, too, and keenly aware that he was going to have to compete with Stevie for playing time during the shows. To add to the tension, Stevie couldn't read music like the other hired hands, making it difficult for him to figure out the parts he was charted to play. Alomar could deal with the musical shortcomings. What he couldn't deal with was Lenny.
Lenny was starstruck She wanted to hang out at the rehearsals. Stevie wanted her with him. He liked her company, the coke she brought with her and the relief of not worrying where she was or who she was with when she wasn't around. When Bowie arrived after 10 days of preliminary rehearsals, Alomar complained about the drugs and the wife. Bowie immediately banished Lenny from the premises, which pissed Stevie off. Amends were made at a birthday party for Bowie, when the star came over to tell Stevie how nice it would be if Double Trouble could open some shows on the tour.
It was the solution to the problem that had been nagging Stevie ever since he agreed to go on tour with Bowie. He wanted to have a taste of the big time, but it bummed him out putting Chris and Tommy on hold, especially when Double Trouble had an album in the can. The possibility of his boys tagging along seemed like the ideal solution.
Chesley Millikin, Stevie's manager, immediately got on the phone to take advantage of Bowie's offer. With Double Trouble out on the road with Bowie, selling the album would be a piece of cake. During two days of downtime for the Bowie tour, he lined up a gig for Double Trouble on "Musicladen," an influential German TV program. When Bowie caught wind of the side action, he hesitated. He couldn't have one of his support musicians advancing his career in the midst of his own tour. Bowie sent word that Millikin would have to relinquish management of Stevie Ray Vaughan for the duration of the tour.
Chesley hit the roof. Stevie quit the tour.
For several weeks, it was the talk of the music business. This unknown guitar player was blowing off David Bowie. Was he crazy?
"I couldn't gear everything on something I didn't really care a whole lot about," Stevie told a reporter from the Dallas Morning News. "It was kind of risky; but I really didn't need all the headaches. We really thought we had something going with our album." Stevie Ray Vaughan, the world would learn, didn't take no shit.
As a businessman, Chesley knew that he had taken a risk by pulling Stevie off the Bowie tour. As a believer in his client, he knew in his guts that what he had done was right.
"Telling Bowie to fuck off was the greatest factor for establishing Stevie Ray Vaughan as the working-class guitar hero," he later said.
Perhaps the single most important factor that gave Stevie the courage to jump off the Bowie dream machine was an elderly gentleman with a flat top haircut and a set of teeth big enough for a horse. John Hammond was a promoter, a writer, a lifelong civil rights advocate who served for many years on the board of the NAACP..........


Check out My Website The Silent View

Dara
(acolyte)
02/02/05 12:26 PM
Re: For Argumants Sake new [re: sonofsilence]  

Very intereresting stuff, SOS.

This bit especially intrigued me:

In reply to:

Though Nile Rodgers from the dance band Chic was officially the producer, it was Bowie who was calling the shots.


This is very different from the "official" line that Bowie handed over too much control on Let's Dance to Nile.

Slan libh,

Dara

"There are Irish people all over the world. Or people who want to be."

sonofsilence
(acolyte)
02/02/05 01:44 PM
Re: For Argumants Sake new [re: Dara]  

In reply to:

This is very different from the "official" line that Bowie handed over too much control on Let's Dance to Nile.


Thats what I thought was amusing too. Especially when he said that on BTWN he thought he would take more control this time as producer than Rodgers. And that he would use Rodgers in the way he saw best. something like that anyway.

Check out My Website The Silent View

pablopicasso
(acolyte)
02/02/05 02:12 PM
Re: For Argumants Sake new [re: sonofsilence]  

There are two sides to every story and it is interesting to hear the other side of this one at last. Thanks for writing this out for us.

I fly to the nearest bar

sonofsilence
(acolyte)
02/02/05 03:21 PM
Re: For Argumants Sake new [re: pablopicasso]  

In reply to:

Thanks for writing this out for us.


No problem. even though it was a cut and paste job

Check out My Website The Silent View

SysiyoModerator
(thunder ocean)
02/03/05 03:08 AM
Re: For Argumants Sake new [re: sonofsilence]  

In reply to:

Especially when he said that on BTWN he thought he would take more control this time as producer than Rodgers.


Actually Rodgers said that even himself to a degree.

KArt | Project Michelangelo | LiveJournal

bowiefanpeter
(the voyeur)
02/03/05 08:44 AM
Re: When Has Bowie Not Got His Own Way? new [re: sonofsilence]  

I'll make peek my head arond and throw in some obscure references.

-Tin machine booed on their first US tv appearance
-rumoured production work on U2's Achtung baby album that neither U2 or bowie have acknowledged.
-John Cale sessions not being fruitful
-extra queen song not being fruitful
-The outside album being "condensed" by virgin records
-Virgin records turning down the LAW live album
-Attendance at a handful of AREA2 shows
-Norman Rockwell turing down the Diamond Dogs cover
-Morrissey tour
-Bowiebanc
-Bowie invested in the LA stage production of hedwig - critical praise - money disappeared
-never worked with little richard
-never worked with Scott Walker(eno produced some tracks which have never been heard)
-hermione
-odd first meeting with warhol

Those are some of the more interesting ones I can think off the top of my head.

Is Ian Hunter still pissed off at Bowie? I'm not a IH fan.

BFP




Strawman
(acolyte)
02/03/05 08:50 AM
Re: When Has Bowie Not Got His Own Way? new [re: bowiefanpeter]  

In reply to:

I'm not a IH fan.


I already knew that because your name isn't hunterfanpeter.

There's no flies on me, sunshine.



bowiefanpeter
(the voyeur)
02/17/05 11:03 PM
Re: When Has Bowie Not Got His Own Way? new [re: sonofsilence]  

Has Dylan ever directly acknowledged Bowiein any way?

I've seen a photo of the 2 of them from 85ish, Bob borrowed Ronson live in the mid 70's and wore face paint on that same tour. is that it?

BFP




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