Let's say he chooses to have a producer he has never used before, then who should it be?

Or should he stick with one he's used already? Eno, Visconti, Rogers?

If they're a new one, I'd like to hear Flood, maybe Rubin or possibly Scott Walker.

my site - updated MAY 2009

Rubin and Bowie would never fit. Both are geniuses in their own right but Rubin's rather conservative "American" style would never match Bowie's ideas.

If Bowie was to have someone fresh I'd go for a producer with a backround from the American alternative scene. Placebo have done well with Tool's David Botrill so I wouldn't mind to have someone like him at the helm. Tool vocalist Maynard James Keenan has already featured on the excellent remix of "Bring Me The Disco King", so there could already be a link.

But I'd also be happy with another Visconti production. The last time he produced three consecutive Bowie albums they gave us the invincible Berlin Triptych. Two briliant (Low, Heroes) and one slightly flawed album (Lodger).

If we consider "Heathen" as brilliant and "Reality" as flawed then Bowie and Visconti owe us another brilliant one. At least that's what history teaches us.

TW GOD OF FOOTBALL

One's to avoid are Mark Plati and Dr Dre

my site - updated MAY 2009

I'd like to see him take the Producing role himself like on Diamond Dogs & Iggy Pop's albums. I think he can do it and would make it very interesting.

In reply to:

---

briliant (Low, Heroes) ... one slightly flawed album (Lodger) ... "Heathen" as brilliant ... "Reality" as flawed

---

are you comparing lodger to reality??

Nigel Godrich, who has done almost all of the Radiohead albums and a couple of the Beck albums making them feasts for the ears.

In reply to:

---

If we consider "Heathen" as brilliant and "Reality" as flawed then Bowie and Visconti owe us another brilliant one. At least that's what history teaches us.

---

History also teaches us not to trust the Germans.


Which is to say that history teaches us nothing.


Everyday I write the book

Correct me if I'm wrong, which I probably am, but didn't he try producing Hours... himself and it went pretty badly wrong?

Isn't Earthling self-produced?

__________________________________________
I'll never touch you...
...but I will prick you!

Blog

hmmm not sure of that. I thought it was Mark Platti

my site - updated MAY 2009

In reply to:

---

Correct me if I'm wrong, which I probably am, but didn't he try producing Hours... himself and it went pretty badly wrong?

Isn't Earthling self-produced?

---

Earthling was produced by Bowie, and co-produced by Mark Plati and Reeves Gabrels. hours... was produced by Bowie and Gabrels. I think the last Bowie album to be produced by Bowie himself only is Diamond Dogs.

In reply to:

---

Nigel Godrich, who has done almost all of the Radiohead albums and a couple of the Beck albums making them feasts for the ears.

---

Agreed.
He also produced the only worthwhile McCartney album post-Beatles - simply because he stood up to him and told him his songs were crap.

I used to be with it, but then they changed what "it" was. Now, what I'm with isn't it, and what's "it" seems weird and scary to me.

He needs somebody who will - as has been noted - stand up to him and tell him when his songs are crap. His last two albums were both alright on a production front, but the material was substandard. Not awful, just not the best he's capable of. The fact he can produce one or two standout tracks a record - like "Slow Burn" or "New Killer Star" - indicates he's still "got it". He just needs to work with someone who won't settle for anything less engaging than that.

In reply to:

---

are you comparing lodger to reality??

---

Just in my train of thoughts considering three Visconti productions in a row.

Of course "Lodger" is way better than "Reality", hence my use of "slightly flawed" vs. "flawed" in that post. Still the first is not as good and the second not as bad as often said.

TW GOD OF FOOTBALL

Lodger is purposely flawed and experimental but as you get used to it, it normalizes itself to become something unique and classic. Reality sounds conventional and fresh at the same time to me. It is his recapitulation album behind a generic rock record. Deconstructing the norm with songs of death and cut-up lyrical plaster with his off-kilter compositions and odd sounds.

In reply to:

---

Lodger is purposely flawed

---

Visconti writes differently in his book: Work didn't go as planned, results weren't as good as hoped. In brief.
And again: as good as "Lodger" is, it is lightyears behind "Low" and "heroes", the albums it is related with.

TW GOD OF FOOTBALL

Yeah. I think Lodger is way inferior to Scary Monsters and even Let's Dance. The cuts always felt like they were trying to hard to be edgy without actually succeeding at being worthwhile songs, whereas Low and heroes are packed with successful tracks just about end to end.

I think I actually prefer Heathen and probably Reality to Lodger. Actually, come to think of it, the three records are somewhat alike - trying to be edgy, sport a remarkably similar sound and aren't loaded with particularly memorable or vital songs, with a couple of obvious exceptions.

Several years ago, I had the opportunity to ask famous producer Daniel Lanois a question which I thought was about David Bowie.

Knowing the man had worked with U2, Eno, Dylan, Gabriel et al, I asked him which artist he wanted to produce in the future.

Unfortunately by the time I asked the question, I was so convinced that Lanois would answer Bowie that the dismay was visible on my face when he answered 'Martha Wainwright'. My friend reported that my jaw dropped when in my mind, I thought I was doing well to accept his suggestion of the Martha women who was probably some relative of Rufus. Which is all a bit embarrassing to say the least.





Well, 100% Brit (and apparently proud of it) is being a bit over the top when he says 8 hours [of Outside outtakes]. I'd love to know the truth concerning what 100% git really has ~ Reeves Gabrels, 2003

Over the years, I think this album has been questioned more frequently than maybe any other 70s album barring Pin Ups. At the same, it's also been strongly defended, so what I am going to say is this ...

Lodger, I think, dropped a few of the hooks we'd come to expect from the surrounding Bowie albums and began favouring sonics over songwriting more than ever before. This is not necessarily a bad thing but it does suits some fans and not others.

Also, in review Lodger's songwriting, we should not forget that Brian Eno actually co-wrote more than half the album. In an intense study of the music, Eno writer Eric Tamm even implies that Bowie has certain abilities that are physiologically off limits to Eno. Perhaps some of this also began to emerge.



Well, 100% Brit (and apparently proud of it) is being a bit over the top when he says 8 hours [of Outside outtakes]. I'd love to know the truth concerning what 100% git really has ~ Reeves Gabrels, 2003

I still think Lodger is better than "Heroes" (and better than any of Bowie's post-Scary Monsters albums, with the possible exception of The Buddha of Suburbia). There's only two tracks on there that I don't think are brilliant - "Move On" (which is kinda fun though when you play it backwards) and "Red Money" ("Sister Midnight" was better).

Lodger was like a sketch book of many ideas. Production wise it could have been better I guess. But it's obvious he was trying to avoid doing another instrumental side. Though I am sure he was tempted.

my site - updated MAY 2009

Lodger's mix does sound a little soupy.

I wonder if the fact that the album doesn't have any instrumentals is why it's not held in quite the same esteem as Low and "Heroes".

I like Lodger. It served its purpose well which was to give a feeling of a person travelling. I feel that when I listen. I absolutely adore Look Back In Anger and it's an album that spawned some great Bowie tracks like DJ and Boys Keep Swinging and also inspired Bowie to make more video clips. Something he's now lost his passion for. Those music videos for the album were pre MTV too.

I like the funky way Bowie sings "Red Money" but "Sister Midnight" has a more grounded sound, I suppose. Along the Lodger line, "Red Sails" is always in the running with being my favorite song in his canon.

Lodger's mix hasn't translated well onto CD at all, especially when it comes to remastering. It sounds way too sonically thin in parts, unlike the more rounded out sounds of "Heroes" and 'Scary Monsters'. I wonder if Visconti would consider remixing it. It IS the album's 30th Anniversary this year

As for pondering of the instrumental side, according to Pegg's book, it was intended initially, but when Bowie started writing lyrics/vocals for the album, he was mining a rich vein of inspiration so decided to scrap the instrumental side.

I used to be with it, but then they changed what "it" was. Now, what I'm with isn't it, and what's "it" seems weird and scary to me.

maybe what we now call Abdulmajid was intended as one of the instrumentals.

my site - updated MAY 2009

That track actually would fit pretty well on Lodger.

>I wonder if the fact that the album doesn't have any
>instrumentals is why it's not held in quite the same
>esteem as Low and "Heroes".

Not in my case. I don't think a single track on Lodger bests any of the instrumental tracks on Low and "heroes", let alone the tracks with vocals on those two records (which are generally my favorites).

For me there are a couple of highlights on Lodger - really just the two big singles - and the rest is of no real interest at all. I've listened to the record dozens of times, and it just bounces off. I find parts of it annoying I suppose. The rest seems fairly pointless.

Which, come to think of it, is kinda the reaction I have to Reality and Heathen! Not bad really, but annoying in spots and, well, kinda 'eh. An improvement from Earthling and Hours to be sure (the former being extremely annoying, the latter deadly dull), but not really up to his best except in patches.

Sorry, Lodger lovers!

If Bowie does record another record, instead of aiming for his Berlin period, as he seems to have done on his last couple of releases, he should go all Tokyo disco and aim for the vibe Scary Monsters achieved. Get Gwen Stefani's producers!

And her wardrobe!

or maybe get Goldfrapp to produce it.

my site - updated MAY 2009

I'd much rather he focus on solid songwriting, rather than being cutting edge and jumping whichever bandwagon is flavour of the month at the moment... let's face it, the days of a new Bowie product being a huge global smash are gone, despite the fact his next record (if there is one) will be huge, if only for the fact he's been dormant so long.

I used to be with it, but then they changed what "it" was. Now, what I'm with isn't it, and what's "it" seems weird and scary to me.

I don't want him to be cutting edge, I want him to be good. It wouldn't kill him to work with a good, contemporary, mainstream producer, though. Let Bowie bring on the weird, and let the producer bring on the contemporary groove. It would give them both something to play against, which often results in the best music.

Working with Goldfrapp would be kinda cool . . .

In reply to:

---

Unfortunately by the time I asked the question, I was so convinced that Lanois would answer Bowie that the dismay was visible on my face when he answered 'Martha Wainwright'. My friend reported that my jaw dropped when in my mind, I thought I was doing well to accept his suggestion of the Martha women who was probably some relative of Rufus. Which is all a bit embarrassing to say the least.

---

You're a bloody mother fucking asshole!

(Some relative of Rufus? sheesh Adam, you should take more notice of what I say in future and not put important info in the trash if there is not a whiff of Bowie reference.... I bet you know she covered "See Emily Play" on her last album though )

my face is finished, my body's gone and i can't help but think,
standin' up here in all this applause and gazin' down at all the young and the beautiful with their questioning eyes,
that i must above all things love myself

And Heroes with Adrian Belew. .

And yes, I know she covered SEP - I own that rather excellent album (because of positive reviews, I swear ... one of them probably being yours)



The problem is I only really knew Martha by name back when Lanois mentioned her (early 06). I soon changed that. It appears he hasn't produced her yet ... but it could be a nice direction. And Lanois in concert was awesome.





Well, 100% Brit (and apparently proud of it) is being a bit over the top when he says 8 hours [of Outside outtakes]. I'd love to know the truth concerning what 100% git really has ~ Reeves Gabrels, 2003

OK, Ad, your off the hook .

Now, am I going to see you at Community Cup on Sunday? Mirka is looking forward to kicking a footy around with Wally Meanie who wanted to take her home last time. And I'm just looking forward to seeing Timmy Rogers in footy shorts again.

But it's not about the footy. It's about the community and the music and a day of no corporate bullshit, just good times!

Who knows, I may even streak this year

my face is finished, my body's gone and i can't help but think,
standin' up here in all this applause and gazin' down at all the young and the beautiful with their questioning eyes,
that i must above all things love myself

I'm jealous. I'd love to see Timmy and his RockDogs playing footy.

I used to be with it, but then they changed what "it" was. Now, what I'm with isn't it, and what's "it" seems weird and scary to me.

Hey FB, I'll try and get some more good snaps this year. Looks like Adam is going to stand me up again for the 3rd CC he's been invited to with me

my face is finished, my body's gone and i can't help but think,
standin' up here in all this applause and gazin' down at all the young and the beautiful with their questioning eyes,
that i must above all things love myself

Hey, FB.... Adam came to Community Cup! What a day, at one point we had 7 streakers on the oval AT ONCE!! (Not me ). Timmy Rogers captained his team to a one point win with a winning goal right at the end, and my dog Mirka got her photo taken with the Rock Dog's coach Peter "Lucky" Luscombe and the Community Cup!!

Tim Rogers



Great video clip here of a performance I witnessed at the Espy a couple of years ago


Mirka and Lucky Luscombe




my face is finished, my body's gone and i can't help but think,
standin' up here in all this applause and gazin' down at all the young and the beautiful with their questioning eyes,
that i must above all things love myself

In reply to:

---

Hey, FB.... Adam came to Community Cup! What a day, at one point we had 7 streakers on the oval AT ONCE!!

---

Hey I was there too.

Managed to take a pic of one of those streakers, he sort of looks familiar.

yeah anyway as mantion in the topic of the thread. Nick Cave's producer would be a good one for him to work with.

my site - updated MAY 2009

It would be great if he worked with Tim Rogers too

my face is finished, my body's gone and i can't help but think,
standin' up here in all this applause and gazin' down at all the young and the beautiful with their questioning eyes,
that i must above all things love myself

If the two were ever to just COLLABORATE I would cream.

Good to see Cap'n Timmy kicking the winning goal. Did you streak SLC?

I used to be with it, but then they changed what "it" was. Now, what I'm with isn't it, and what's "it" seems weird and scary to me.

I'm curious: why does no one mention Ken Scott in these type of threads?

Can someone list the albums Scott has produced for Bowie? I think this is a fair and honest polemic. Why not Ken Scott once again?

Isnt he dead?

I used to be with it, but then they changed what "it" was. Now, what I'm with isn't it, and what's "it" seems weird and scary to me.

Harry Maslin - hardly gets a mention either.

my site - updated MAY 2009

So much for sticking to the thread title of "NEW" producers [roll eyes]

my face is finished, my body's gone and i can't help but think,
standin' up here in all this applause and gazin' down at all the young and the beautiful with their questioning eyes,
that i must above all things love myself

well new as opposed to usual producers. But yeah true let's look at someone totally new. Tricky maybe? I liked what he did with Grace Jones recently. Ok Eno was kind of a hand in that too.

my site - updated MAY 2009

Oh my God I agree!! Ken Scott to produce!!

Ken Scott produced Ziggy Stardust, Aladdin Sane, and Pinups. I also think it would be great if he could produce for him again.

Ken Scott is still alive. But he produced Level 42 which definitely rules him out of recording with Daddy again.

TW GOD OF FOOTBALL

Scott's presence in Bowie's formative years cannot be underestimated. Hunky Dory was the first Bowie album to meld perfect production and songwriting (a unanimous opinion with the exception of K). We might even surmise that Bowie learned his studio wizardry from Scott as almost every album ever since, he has "co-produced". Consequently, this also makes Scott the last person to ever solely produce a David Bowie album (although Bowie himself did Diamond Dogs). Last but not least, the follow up Scott produced album made Bowie a star. Not even Tony Visconti can make that claim. It all adds up to Scott being pretty undervalued and unappreciated in the wider scheme of things.




Well, 100% Brit (and apparently proud of it) is being a bit over the top when he says 8 hours [of Outside outtakes]. I'd love to know the truth concerning what 100% git really has ~ Reeves Gabrels, 2003

A very relevant question that I'd like answered at some point .... who - if anyone - did Bowie have in mind to produce Ziggy 2002? We know that Bowie had reunited with Visconti but this could have been quite deflating for Ken Scott, so I really hope it wasn't him.

The other big question of course was the choice of guitarist. Surely, it was time for Bowie to work with Jeff Beck.



Well, 100% Brit (and apparently proud of it) is being a bit over the top when he says 8 hours [of Outside outtakes]. I'd love to know the truth concerning what 100% git really has ~ Reeves Gabrels, 2003

I'm surprised Ronnie Wood hasn't turned up on more Bowie records. They appear to be quite chummy, at least according to Ronnie's autobiography. His crunchy style would have been great for Z2k. But I'm sure Daddy was only courting publicity when he made these comments. I doubt he ever seriously considered it. It would have moved him directly into the annals of nostalgia acts.

I used to be with it, but then they changed what "it" was. Now, what I'm with isn't it, and what's "it" seems weird and scary to me.

Wasn't he also the Engineer on TMWSTW? Looking back, many of the albums I consider to sound sonically beautiful from Bowie are the ones Ken Scott was involved with.

Also judging from this clip, it seems like Scott and Bowie have the same attitude towards the current music industry climate and record companies:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xa-OFTLqJsA

And here;s a clip of Ken and Woody Woodmansey trying to recreate the original sound of the drums they used on Bowie's albums:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkkQNg52bSA&feature=related

Wow, that Ken Scott and Woody Woodmansey clip was quite an obscure find. Cool!

I never realised Woody went on to present game show 'Bullseye'