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sunspot
(wild eyed peoploid)
02/15/10 00:52 AM
Re: Plus Where's Her Swan Dress? new [re: Marquis]  

Well, Britney didn't "make" a song as good as "Toxic" either, since it was written by somebody else. Gaga is unique in being one of the few pop tarts who writes her own material (Beyonce is another).

I don't think it's odd at all to blast the label system. If Gaga is their creation, they've had exactly one potentially Madonna-rivaling act in 25 years. That's a track record so bad it would embarrass the executives at GM. And I suspect this "success" has a lot more to do with Gaga herself than the dipshit blow monkeys at her label.



Marquis
(wise like orangutan)
02/16/10 07:12 PM
Ah, My Shipment of Gold and Baby Souls Has Arrived new [re: sunspot]  

Right, well for the purposes of this discussion, it doesn't really matter how much of Toxic's success you credit to Spears' performance and how much to Bloodshy & Avant or Cathy Dennis or whoever. Sure, one might give LG some extra credit for writing her songs, but at the end of the day what matters to most people are the results, the songs themselves, and I just don't think hers measure up.

(I should mention at this juncture that -- obviously -- this is based on my personal tastes, but that I do, y'know, actually like some of this shit)

As for the dipshit blow monkeys -- I'm not sure what your criteria for "Madonna-rivalling" are. Jay-Z, Eminem, Destiny's Child, Linkin Park, Spice Girls, Green Day, RHCP, Mariah Carey, Garth Brooks, Ace of Base -- all have outsold Gaga by several orders of magnitude, even accounting for the collapse of the CD market, and they're nowhere near Madonna. With standards that high, you might as well blame the labels for never finding another Beatles.

Anyway, the notion of the stupid, evil label is something, to me, that should have died alongside the notion that artists "sell out" by licensing their songs. There are plenty of assholes who work at independent labels, and plenty of perfectly nice, creative folks working at majors, just like in any other business. I don't know anyone at Interscope personally, but I'm sure there are a lot of people over there who put a lot of hard work into helping Lady Gaga get where she is today, and I'd bet she's quite grateful to the lot of 'em.

I don't walk it like I talk it cause I run it

Forgotten_Boy
(crash course raver)
02/16/10 08:13 PM
Re: Ah, My Shipment of Gold and Baby Souls Has Arr new [re: Marquis]  

In reply to:

As for the dipshit blow monkeys -- I'm not sure what your criteria for "Madonna-rivalling" are. Jay-Z, Eminem, Destiny's Child, Linkin Park, Spice Girls, Green Day, RHCP, Mariah Carey, Garth Brooks, Ace of Base -- all have outsold Gaga by several orders of magnitude


All established artists with a back catalogue, no? That argument doesn't quite stand up.

In reply to:

they're nowhere near Madonna


No, of course they're not. None of the names you mentioned (with the exception of maybe Eminem and the Spice Girls) are pop culture icons. Madonna is - and it's not purely on the back of her music career. It's the bleached blonde hair, the coneshaped bras, the 'Sex' phase... she carefully and deliberately antagonised people. She also has a far greater cross over audience than any of those acts you named and none of them are, or ever will be, a serious contender for that same crossover audience.

GaGa, like Madonna, has become a bit of pop culture icon in her initial bout of stardom and she's the only genuine contender for that crossover audience. People like her because she's not afraid to look like an idiot, or be controversial. She doesn't make headlines because she's a train wreck or because she has a celebrity boyfriend, she makes them on her own terms, when she knows it will raise people's ire. If that doesn't sound like the 88-93 Madonna, then I don't know what does. However, to become more than the heir apparent, she'll have to prove the same longevity that Madonna has.

For the record, personally I don't think Madonna got interesting til about 'Like A Prayer' through to 'Bedtime Stories', then again from 'Ray Of Light' through 'Music'. The earlier stuff I find disposable, the later stuff I find faceless. Comparatively, I find GaGa the most palatable of pop's current trend, if only because it's different and she's believable. My opinions only of course.

I used to be with it, but then they changed what "it" was. Now, what I'm with isn't it, and what's "it" seems weird and scary to me.

Marquis
(wise like orangutan)
02/17/10 05:17 PM
And starring Drake as Justin Upton new [re: Forgotten_Boy]  

Right, meaning only that those artists all started their very successful careers after the rise of Madonna, so it doesn't make much sense to argue that there have been no major label successes in the time since. Anyway, it ain't like Ace of Base have a sprawling catalogue to draw from either.

As for who is and isn't a pop culture icon, well that depends on how you define the borders of the culture in question. You and I might not feel the direct cultural relevance of a Mariah Carey or a Garth Brooks, but to their respective audiences, they are gods.

Maybe I'm just old, but I can certainly recall a time when you couldn't swing a cat without hitting a Spice Girl. I suppose Lady Gaga is approaching that level of cultural saturation, but as you say, she's got to maintain her trajectory for more than 3 years to earn even half the accolades thrown her way on this thread. Maybe she's already there and I just haven't been paying attention.

SIDEBAR

It occurs to me now that it would be very useful for someone to attempt to weight artist sales relative to their era, in the way that ERA+ and OPS+ seek to contextualize baseball statistics to make more accurate comparisons between guys who played in much different eras. Scanning 10,000 records means a lot more today than it did 10, 5, or even 2 years ago.

HORRIBLE METAPHOR TYING THE TWO SECTIONS TOGETHER

In this case, Madonna would be Hank Aaron, a model of consistency and longevity. Mariah Carey would be A-Rod, a one-time prodigy who fell out of favor for being a horrid human being, but whose talent will not be denied*. Which I guess makes Celine Dion the Barry Bonds - try as you might to deny the facts, the numbers don't lie.

Lady Gaga's gotta be, who, Hanley Ramirez? Young and talented and already touted as the best in the game, but plenty still left to prove.

Hmmm. What this really needs is a Ken Griffey Jr. corollary, the sure-thing can't-miss career derailed by injury. Aaliyah? Too soon?

*Have you heard "Obsessed"? It's the tits!

I don't walk it like I talk it cause I run it

ghostlove
(cracked actor)
02/17/10 11:12 PM
Re: And starring Drake as Justin Upton new [re: Marquis]  

Personally, I hope someone like Santigold gets accolades like Gaga. She's working the art angle towards commerciality, not the other way around like Gaga.



Remade/Remodeled
(acolyte)
02/20/10 03:59 PM
Classic new [re: DefecateEcstasy]  

People talking about that disposable Pokerface girl like she's a real person never fails to crack me up.

C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre

sunspot
(wild eyed peoploid)
02/21/10 04:08 AM
Re: Classic new [re: Remade/Remodeled]  

>With standards that high, you might as well blame the labels
>for never finding another Beatles.

You don't need to go that far to wonder what the fuck is wrong with the labels. Screw the Beatles, they haven't even found another Eagles in 30+ years. How hard can THAT be?

I'm not arguing that they're evil. Only that they're incredibly stupid, so stupid I suppose it might resemble a form of evil.

I'd also add that Gaga's success isn't due to Interscope so much as it is to fellow-artist Akon and his label, which is part of Interscope. It was Akon who pushed - and pushed - Gaga for about a year until radio finally picked up her initial single, "Just Dance". (Radio - another bunch of fuckwits so stupid it resembles evil.)

It's interesting that two of the biggest female acts of the past two decades - Alanis Morissette and Lady Gaga - were both pushed by artist-run labels (Alanis by Madonna's late, Warner-affiliated Maverick Records, and Gaga by Akon's Interscope-affiliated Kon Live label).



Adam
(cricket menace)
02/21/10 09:02 PM
Re: Classic new [re: sunspot]  

Both Iman and Lady Ga Ga were present at the AmFAR (Foundation for AIDS research) annual fundraiser in New York just 10 days ago.

This article mentions that Iman is aware that Lady Gaga is a fan of her husband, but that her daughter is a fan of Gaga. Iman says "So, if I can manage tonight to get a photograph of Lady Gaga, I will be a [rock-star] mom for at least 2010, right?"





Richard Kingsmill (Triple J FM): "Do you mind if we throw to a song by your old man?.
Duncan Jones (Bowie's Son): "Oh God ... if you have to ... OK ... but have a look at Nick Armstrong and The Thieves"


schizophrenic
(acolyte)
02/22/10 03:31 AM
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. [re: sunspot]  

Sunspot, I mean this in the best way possible, but you strike me as the kind of person who has never actually had to deal with a record label personally, doesn't have a clue about how the record industry works, has never done anything remotely creative with their lives, and generally doesn't dwell in what most people refer to as the "real world".

Facile name-calling is all well and good, but you give no real rationale as to why you seem to have a personal grudge against everything that constitutes the music industry aside from "THEY DON'T PLAY THE MUSIC I LIKE".

All mainstream media is a hollow, marionette-like shell of dead skin reanimated by the greasy fist of crass consumerism. Everyone with two brain cells to rub together knows this and has known this for years. The whole reason terms like "alternative" and "indie" meant something before they were commodified is that people were actually taking the time and making the effort to look for something new, different and interesting outside of the mainstream. This has been true for not only years, but decades. Believe it or not, some people actually like music for its own sake, regardless of wether it has any impact on the dominant culture around it. Frankly, once you stop having to prove to yourself and anyone within earshot that you're just so far removed from that evil corporate monolith... I think you'll be a lot happier.

Speaking for myself, I don't give a fuck about wether Lady Gaga writes her own songs... because her songs suck. I don't care about what outrageous things she wears when she sings them... because her songs suck. I don't care about the fact that she can sing them in the first place... because her songs suck. I don't care about whatever "potential" she might have... because her songs suck. Until she writes a song that I think does not suck, my investment in her will continue to be that awful cringing feeling I get whenever Bad Romance comes on the radio and ruins my day, just a bit.

Point is, calling Lady Gaga the most exciting thing to come along in a generation is like calling Obama the best president since Clinton. It's technically true, but defending it as rabidly as you do only underlines how much faith you're still putting in a system you so eagerly claim to despise.



riley
(crash course raver)
06/21/10 08:52 AM
send in the clones new [re: schizophrenic]  

he should just let her strap one on and be done with it






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