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emptysmellmetal
(wild eyed peoploid)
05/09/10 03:19 PM
(() BOWIE NON SEQUITURS ()) [re: ]  

* The Enemy is Fragile: Most amazing unreleased track !?

"Hello Leon, would you like something really fishy ?"
"You could've fought him to the death, but NOOOOO..."
"YOU ARE - Chinese poetry - YOU ARE - Something mysterious..."

* What a shame that Bowie held up the release date (some copies already
pressed) for Queen's Hot Space so they could remove his vocals from the
(quite splendid) track Cool Cat !

* Who's heard Alice Coopers concept album revolving around his father
(cleverly titled DADA) from 1983 ? The title track almost out-creeps
Bowie's Wishful Beginnings with the sounds of blood dripping throughout.
It's an instrumental with Cooper talking to his therapist. And check out
"I Love America".....great partner to "I'm Afraid of Americans."

* Who knows the "real" story behind Bowie's appearance at the US Festival
in 1983....his first American show in 5 years. After 8 hours of bands
Bowie takes a whopping unbelievable 3 hours to appear with people
slowly fading out (like a marathon dance contest).....after he played
Let's Dance a third of the crowd headed for the parking lot out of
sheer exhaustion. In a sense he really blew it considering he was paid
1.5 million......

* The album covers for the Stones Tattoo You and Heathen complement
each other nicely.....

* Am I the only one who thinks Toy would not have been the proper
re-introduction of Visconti and a good follow-up to "hours." ?!

* What songs do you think Morrissey and Bowie would have sung
together on the Outside Tour had he not scurried off... (other than
possibly "I Know It's Gonna Happen Someday?")

* Earl Slick's instrumental 1735 (solo album)
and Bowie's instrumental 1917 (hours b-side)..... any relation ?

* How funny that Bowie refused to be "in the same building" as Gary
Numan when they appeared on the same show in '80.....







ziggfried
(acolyte)
05/09/10 06:30 PM
Re: (() BOWIE NON SEQUITURS ()) new [re: emptysmellmetal]  

In reply to:

* How funny that Bowie refused to be "in the same building" as Gary
Numan when they appeared on the same show in '80.....


Bowie's denied at least once that that was the case, whereas Numan has stated twice (in his autobiography and to David Buckley for Strange Fascination) that it was. Who knows where the truth lies. Given their respective histories - Numan seems to be a fairly non-bullshit kind of person (honest to a fault in fact) whereas Bowie's had no problem contradicting himself and revising his life story over the years - I tend to believe Numan. That being said, even according to Numan's account, Bowie never directly approached him to have him removed - he was only told that Bowie wanted him out. It's possible that there was someone in the middle who played both Bowie and Numan against each other. But then, Bowie's condescending remarks to Numan in the British music press at the time (a savvy move on Bowie's part, given how Numan was persona non grata in the music papers back then) lends more credence to Numan's account than it does to Bowie's.



emptysmellmetal
(wild eyed peoploid)
05/10/10 01:08 PM
Re: (() BOWIE NON SEQUITURS ()) new [re: ziggfried]  

I just found this quote from Numan:

"I remember Brian Eno was a bit shit about me, as was
Mick Jagger and David Bowie....."

"Bowie has said some lovely things since - he said I'd
written two of the finest songs in British chart history.
Well, he's written one good song in 25 years so fuck him"

"I don't mean to sneer at Bowie, it was a lovely thing that
he said and it healed a rift between him and me. But I was
really upset when he said it"

I read how Numan had worshipped Bowie - and then to have
his IDOL criticize and dog him - that must have been surreal....?!
There's no doubt Pleasure Principle is a masterpiece....he really
added a metallic sheen to what Bowie did on Low....adding a
Robot-Ziggy voice, a distant persona/scowl (a'la thin white duke)
and Bowie's stage/lighting ideas from the STS and Stage tours.

Like Bowie said....Numan had taken all his ideas and everyone that
had influenced HIM as well in one fell swoop......





ziggfried
(acolyte)
05/10/10 06:32 PM
Re: (() BOWIE NON SEQUITURS ()) new [re: emptysmellmetal]  

The fact that Bowie said, in retrospect, "Whatever has gone on between us..." with regards to Numan means he knows something went on - which doesn't exactly fit with his other claim that the incident on The Kenny Everett show was "apocryphal." As David Buckley said in Strange Fascination, Bowie throwing Numan off The Kenny Everest Show would have been the equivalent of Anthony Newley removing David Bowie from a music special in 1967. At best, it's possible that Bowie wasn't directly responsible for Numan's removal from the show - it could have been David Mallett playing Bowie and Numan against each other. Anyway, there's a whole bunch of Bowie and Numan quotations regarding each other here.

In reply to:

"Like Bowie said....Numan had taken all his ideas and everyone that
had influenced HIM as well in one fell swoop......"


That's what Bowie said, and Numan was dogged by the music press (and, no doubt, by hardcore Bowie fans) for a long time because of it. But it isn't entirely true. There's no doubt that Numan was influenced by Bowie, but Numan had other non-Bowie influences too (I don't see Bowie referencing Philip K. Dick or René Magritte, for example), and anyone with half an hear can tell that Numan's music in the late 70s/early 80s (and then after, come to that) sounds quite different to Bowie's. And Bowie's "Thin White Duke scowl," for instance, is more than a little mythical (Bowie was actually a jovial stage presence during the 1976 tour. Have you listened to recordings from that tour? Apparently he was was weaning himself off drugs by way of brandy at the time. Numan's late-70s apparent aloofness on stage, on the other hand, was more to do with nervousness than a conscious effort to ape Bowie).

In any case, although I hold Bowie in god-like esteem and I say that his 1970s musical output is unequalled by anyone at anytime, I'd say without hesitation that, musically speaking, Numan kicked Bowie's ass all throughout the 1980s.



karamasov
(grinning soul)
05/11/10 02:51 PM
Re: (() BOWIE NON SEQUITURS ()) new [re: ziggfried]  

Numan's music is shallow and uninteresting. No wonder Bowie disliked him.



ziggfried
(acolyte)
05/11/10 07:15 PM
Re: (() BOWIE NON SEQUITURS ()) *DELETED* *DELETED* *DELETED* *DELETED* new [re: karamasov]  

Post deleted by ziggfried

ziggfried
(acolyte)
05/12/10 06:44 AM
Re: (() BOWIE NON SEQUITURS ()) new [re: ziggfried]  

In reply to:

Numan's music is shallow and uninteresting.


Maybe it is to you, buddy. Fortunately, loads of people think otherwise.

Edit: I'll grant you that Numan's done very little interesting musically since 1994, aside from revisiting his classic albums live.



emptysmellmetal
(wild eyed peoploid)
05/12/10 01:57 PM
Re: (() BOWIE NON SEQUITURS ()) new [re: ziggfried]  

I'd have to say Bowie's treatment of Numan was "savage."

Since Bowie considers his 77-80 period as his "musical DNA"
I presume he was extremely touchy when he felt it was being
"hijacked" so soon ?!
And as far as Numan's recent music.....like Bowie, goth/industrial
suits him quite well in my opinion.

Alice Cooper has gotten rather screwed in the "history" department.
I read Bowie and the Spiders attended a Cooper concert and a screening
of Clockwork Orange.....both major influences.....yet Bowie dismissed him
in interviews. No doubt he was influenced by Coopers make-up, costumes,
theatrics, etc......and his dissing of Elton John was supposedly in response
to a remark he'd made ("he blew it") after a rather dysfunctional concert John had attended........



ziggfried
(acolyte)
05/12/10 10:31 PM
Re: (() BOWIE NON SEQUITURS ()) new [re: emptysmellmetal]  

In reply to:

[Bowie’s] dissing of Elton John was supposedly in response to a remark he'd made ("he blew it") after a rather dysfunctional concert John had attended........


Something else happened between Bowie and Elton John in the 1970s – I can’t remember what it was exactly, but I think it had something to do with Bowie’s mother talking to the press in about how Bowie doesn’t visit her or speak to her or something, and Elton John read the article and slagged off Bowie because of it, and that pissed Bowie off. Could be a totally bullshit story, it’s just something I remember reading or hearing about some years ago.

In reply to:

I'd have to say Bowie's treatment of Numan was "savage."

Since Bowie considers his 77-80 period as his "musical DNA" I presume he was extremely touchy when he felt it was being "hijacked" so soon ?!


Very possible. Two things, though: one: as I think I implied before, the influence of the Berlin Trilogy on Numan’s early albums is somewhat overstated (it’s definitely an influence, but it’s not like Numan’s music of that time was interchangeable with Bowie’s), and two: Bowie’s consideration of his 77-80 period as “his musical DNA.” Bowie has said that in more recent years, by which time the albums from that time had been praised as classics ad nauseam – so for Bowie to hold those albums in such high esteem now is sort of a capitulation to popular fan/music commentary opinion. Is it possible that Bowie didn’t necessarily consider those albums to be his DNA in the immediate years after he made them? Maybe he did, I’m just maybe he didn’t. Yeah. It does seem that, thirty years ago, Bowie was much more touchy about other artists drawing influences from him than he is these days.

In reply to:

And as far as Numan's recent music.....like Bowie, goth/industrial suits him quite well in my opinion.


Well, yeah, but frankly I think Numan’s goth/industrial sound has stagnated. It’s interesting that Numan beat Bowie to the punch when it came to industrial music – Numan’s Sacrifice (heralding his darker sound/image and generally regarded by fans as his return to form) came out in October 1994, nearly a year before Bowie released 1.Outside (September 1995), considered a return to form for Bowie in some quarters. I think Sacrifice is a great album, but Numan’s studio albums since – Exile (1997), Pure (2000) and Jagged (2006) – all sound samey to me, sub-NIN and lazy both lyrically and musically. All whispery verses with “eerie” music, building up to bombastic shouty choruses...as for the lyrics, all the guff about blood and scars and darkness and death, and Numan’s whole anti-God thing – well, to me, loads of anti-religion songs are just as boring and annoying as loads of pro-religion songs. I just wish Numan would go into a new musical direction – imagine if Bowie kept churning out clones of Outside and Earthling over the last 15 years (OK, that would probably please some people on this website, but not me...). I just far prefer Numan’s (much-criticised) 1980s-early 1990s music to his generally well-loved (by his hardcore fans, anyway) music of the last dozen years.



schizophrenic
(acolyte)
05/13/10 02:39 AM
Re: (() BOWIE NON SEQUITURS ()) new [re: ziggfried]  

In reply to:

I just far prefer Numan�s (much-criticised) 1980s-early 1990s music to his generally well-loved (by his hardcore fans, anyway) music of the last dozen years.


Hmm... I dunno. I wouldn't lump Exile in with Pure and Jagged, simply because it sounds more like a refinement of the goth-electronica sound found on Sacrifice than the low-end sludge that characterizes the other two. Or, put another way, it's still more Martin Gore than Marilyn Manson. Incidentally, Exile is one of my all-time favorite Numan albums, but I completely agree that he needs to give the gloom-and-doom thing a rest.

And yes, some of his '80s stuff is sorely underrated, though I think the harshest critic of those albums is probably Numan himself.




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