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BowieTalk
   >> Come and Buy My Toys
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SysiyoModerator
(thunder ocean)
11/26/04 02:13 PM
Re: Mother of pearl [re: ulfdub]  

In reply to:

we are talking about panic in detroit, space oddity, etc.

also BAAL


None of which were recorded in 1980.

The re-recorded versions of Space Oddity, Panic In Detroit and Rebel Rebel (the lattest remaining unreleased) were made in 1979 for use at Kenny Everett's New Year's Eve Show. I doubt any of them were meant for release at the time, although the acoustic Space Oddity did appear as a B-side in 1980. In fact, the recordings were made at the insistance of David Mallet (who was Kenny Everett's director).

As for Baal (recorded 1981, released 1982), if Bowie didn't want to record anything at the time, why record this at all? His deal with RCA had ended with Scary Monsters and he had no obligations to release anything at the time (and if would have been bound by contract to deliver something, a 15 minute EP would have hardly satisfied the company). He could have just sat back and watch his commercial appeal rise. In fact, releasing such an uncommercial offering as Baal could have damaged Bowie's chances of getting a new record deal.

As for Toy, if it was indeed never intended for release, why write new songs for it, why re-record previously unreleased songs, and why include older songs that at the time were licensed to EMI/Virgin anyway? (I admit I don't know the stance on unreleased material precisely, do they belong to the record company who first released them or to the company at the time of the unreleased recording). Why make so much publicity out of it, and why have Mark Plati mix it twice in attempt to get it published? If he wanted to get rid of his Virgin contract, surely there would have been an easier way.

KArt | Project Michelangelo | LiveJournal

Edited by Sysiyo on 11/26/04 02:16 PM (server time).



ulfdub
(kook)
11/26/04 02:34 PM
Re: Mother of pearl new [re: Sysiyo]  

it's obvious i won't convince you anymore than you would enjoy my ACCOUSTIC version of wild is the wind!

that is not important. the use of 1980 refers to the post SCARY MONSTERS period of 1980-1982.

it may be true that david did not record these tracks to satisfy a contract. it is also true that an ep of someone elses material is not the hot ticket to a new record deal. it is ALSO TRUE that NO NEW MATERIAL does not endear oneself to one's record company! (thus making a break more desirable).

The point is this...once you release NEW MATERIAL, future royalties must be paid for PERFORMANCE RIGHTS to your existing company.

Those performance rights already exist for pre-published "classics" like SPACE ODDITY. the only revenue generated from a new recording (of OLD MATERIAL) is air play of that recording and/or sales of that recording.

If david released an album of previously unpublished material, the EXISTING RECORD COMPANY retains FUTURE PERFORMANCE ROYALTY RIGHTS!

this is the reason that david "treads water" when in a contract dispute. he simply will not give away these performance rights to someone he is trying to extricate himself from.

As for TOY, had he not gotten a new deal, i do not doubt that TOY would have been given to his then record company.(he did release the lions share of the re-recorded songs as b-side fodder once the dispute was settled, so the studio time was not wasted).

remember, david is not dumb when it comes to finances! he plays the game better than the rest of the field, and that dictates what he records, and or releases during contract disputes.

it is doubtful that this situation will resurface again, as long as DAVID HAS HIS OWN LABLE, so the discussion is moot at best. i consider this my final say on the subject.

down in space it's always 1982 the joke WE ALWAYS KNEW



SysiyoModerator
(thunder ocean)
11/26/04 03:08 PM
Re: Mother of pearl new [re: ulfdub]  

Might I suggest you stop using caps lock all the time, it looks bad and makes it hard (at least for me) to follow your train of thought.

If David is so skilled when it comes to finances (and I don't deny that) why waste money on recording Baal and the mixing work of Toy at all?

In reply to:

it is ALSO TRUE that NO NEW MATERIAL does not endear oneself to one's record company! (thus making a break more desirable).


At the time that was besides the point as David had recorded most (if not all) of Let's Dance before he signed with EMI, so most of his previous releases were irrelevant, as EMI knew they were getting something good. (And I believe that was a planned tactic).

In reply to:

As for TOY, had he not gotten a new deal, i do not doubt that TOY would have been given to his then record company.


But he did give it to them, Virgin only said no (which led to the aforementioned additional mixing my Mark Plati).

KArt | Project Michelangelo | LiveJournal

ulfdub
(kook)
11/26/04 03:23 PM
Re: Mother of pearl new [re: Sysiyo]  

your very statements prove my point.

1. let's dance was in the can, but not submitted to RCA.

he gave VIRGIN toy, knowing that it would be rejected!
the remixing was a ploy to buy time.

enough of this! go look at your excellent photo thread! i posted a glowing review (well deserved)

let's slipaway



ThePoetClover
(mortal with potential)
11/26/04 03:25 PM
Re: WOW!!!!! new [re: pablopicasso]  

WoW

It's all deranged...no control

SysiyoModerator
(thunder ocean)
11/26/04 03:47 PM
Re: Mother of pearl new [re: ulfdub]  

In reply to:

1. let's dance was in the can, but not submitted to RCA.


Because it was recorded after his RCA contract had ended. In late 1982 and early '83 while recording the album Bowie was without contract.

I don't completely buy the idea of Toy being simply a ploy of getting into the contract, as said he poured a lot of time and effort into the project, and seemed to have been genuinely excited about the recordings. According to Tony Visconti he was "hurt terribly" when Virgin refused the album.

But then again, if he was so excited why hasn't it been given a full release now that he could do it?

KArt | Project Michelangelo | LiveJournal

pablopicasso
(acolyte)
11/26/04 03:56 PM
Re: Mother of pearl new [re: Sysiyo]  

I am sure that Toy was something he was very excited about, he seemed to enjoy revisiting the songs he performed live from this era, You got a habit of leaving, London boys, I dig everything and the recordings that have been released on the Heathen b sides were not recorded with no thought.The seemed to be a lot of effort put into them, not just rerecording but making them seem contemporary. Sadly the time has gone and Bowie moved on, he no longer has the excitment or enthusiasm for the project and I think we are lucky to have had the tracks that we have. It would have been a good album, I know I was genuinly excited when I saw the Everyone says Hi single with all the b sides. I knew nothing about the Toy project at this time (I was out of the Bowie loop somewhat, so I knew nothing of the story behind all of this. I knew of 'Toy' but had forgotten all about it by then.

I fly to the nearest bar

ulfdub
(kook)
11/26/04 04:14 PM
Re: Mother of pearl new [re: pablopicasso]  

re:let's dance was recorded after he left RCA

intentionally delayed to minimize profit for RCA

re:he was enthusiastic about TOY and genuinely hurt that it wasn't released

"I'm an ACTOR, only I play the part right down the line, COMPLETELY!! that's what BOWIE is supposed to be all about"

quoted from cracked actor (which was using footage from a 1973 (BBC?)documentary.

since when can we take ANY of his statements at FACE VALUE?

i'm telling lies



SysiyoModerator
(thunder ocean)
11/26/04 04:32 PM
Re: Mother of pearl new [re: ulfdub]  

Of course we have to take everything he says with a grain of salt. But Visconti's comment, as well as earlier assesments by Mark Plati that Bowie was highly excited about the project, would lead me into thinking he was at least half-serious about getting the album released.

KArt | Project Michelangelo | LiveJournal

ulfdub
(kook)
11/26/04 09:28 PM
Re: Mother of pearl new [re: Sysiyo]  

ladies and gentlemen.....ladies and gentlemen.....your attention please......mr.ULFDUB has left the theatre.

portrait in flesh




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