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ziggfried Moderator
(acolyte)
02/11/11 10:29 AM
I am not going to buy Heathen (04/2002) [re: ] Reply to this post

Rose_Stardust: I do actually like David Bowie
But he no longer has the ability to write good music (probably a sympton of becoming old and boring).
I think heathen would offend my ear drums.

power2charm: Me neither, Rose. And if one of his new songs comes on the radio, I will pull out a hammer and break it!

Wise words as always, dear girl. Britain is lucky to have you.


Sylvanelf:

In reply to:

he no longer has the ability to write good music


Probably the same thing people said after Tonight and Never Let Me Down. Dumbasses.


96dbFreak: Heathen will be great, I just know it.


GlitterTrash: I don't think I'll buy it either for the same reasons. It's unfortunate as I really do love Bowie, but I simply can't get as excited by his new music as I am by his old music.
Look at the amount of people who've said they hope his new album will be like his 70's era stuff.
Hmmm...now everyone will ask me what I'm doing here.


twister:

In reply to:

Probably the same thing people said after Tonight and Never Let Me Down. Dumbasses.


Yeah. And then Bowie came back with Tin Machine. Sure taught those non-believers a thing or two, don't you think?

I'll be buying the album. Even if I heard it first, and thought it was wretched, I'd still buy it, just to have all of Bowie's albums. It's a weakness, more than anything else. I wish I was capable of not buying his albums...


BoES (anonymous): Why on earth would you come and post on a forum like this and say that you aren't going to buy Heathen?.... you have no faith in Bowie at all. You aren't fans and he wouldn't appreciate you...

At least he has a life and IS still making music.
You, on the other hand, come to a David Bowie Fan Site and say that he can't write music anymore and that he's old and boring... god you people are pathetic - don't you have anything better to do?


Tuesday's Child: I will buy Heathen. Let the waiting end, I say!


ohramona:

In reply to:

I'll be buying the album. Even if I heard it first, and thought it was wretched, I'd still buy it, just to have all of Bowie's albums. It's a weakness, more than anything else. I wish I was capable of not buying his albums...


1. We admitted we were powerless over db - that our lives had become unmanageable.

I could stop buying db cd's if I wanted to. I just don't want to, yet.


Trash:

In reply to:

I am not going to buy Heathen


You should be banned from this site, send to a desert island for 20 years where only Michael Bolton albums will be played!


twister:

In reply to:

You, on the other hand, come to a David Bowie Fan Site and say that he can't write music anymore and that he's old and boring... god you people are pathetic - don't you have anything better to do?


You silly people never fail to amuse me. Because expressing negative opinions on a Bowie discussion board is such a pathetic thing to do, right? And we should all be mindless drones, correct? Yeah. You come to this message board and say that people are pathetic. Don't you have anything better to do? You silly, silly thing you.

I have low expectations. It's been over a decade since Bowie released anything that I listen to reasonably often, over five years since he released an album that I actually thought was particularly good (I can barely stomach to listen to Earthling in it's entirety it's so tedious, and 'Hours...' is remarkably hit-and-miss, but the hits aren't really worth enduring the misses for). I thought the Afraid demo was absolutely gash, and the fact Bowie is either confident or desperate enough to re-use that song doesn't bode well. I Would Be Your Slave scarred me badly, in fact I haven't had the guts to go back and listen to it a second time. My thought upon hearing it was "this must be what Jeff Buckley sounds like to dice's ears" (dice had recently described him as a "melodramatic boob", I believe). The fact Bowie's working with Visconti again sets off alarms in my head, he hasn't worked with him in twenty years, why now? Lack of confidence? Wants to cash in on his credibility amongst the fans? And I think the album-cover is bloody ugly, and I don't care how "clever" what they've done to his eyes is concerning the album-title, an ugly cover is an ugly cover. Particularly the upside down writing, can we say "cheap shitty gimmick"?

So, yeah. I don't have high hopes for Heathen. I'm open minded enough to go in and hear it for myself, but I don't particularly have a huge amount of faith in the David Bowie of 2002. I'll buy it, of course, and there'll probably be at least a couple of really good songs on it, and I'll be content with that. But I don't expect anything more than that anymore.

Here's hoping he can prove me wrong.


Cormak: I can't wait for it to come out in June. Despite a lot of people liking db's older music (which I like as well) I really love his new stuff. I've been a fan since the late 80's and I love his work from then on. Outside and Hours being my favorite albums.

Anyway, I can't wait for it to come out. I heard "I would be your slave" and I'm already hooked.


jonasf: My favourite record store has promised to sell me the CD at 9 am on the 10th of June. I can't wait!


Vast Blue Sky: Well I am!


Anonymous:

In reply to:

I am not going to buy Heathen


Who Gives a F*ck weather you buy bowie's new album? What makes you think anyone cares about your worthless opinion?

Go AWAY!


ErichJohann:

In reply to:

Go AWAY!


Go REGISTER.


BoES (anonymous): TWISTER...

my point is not that you dont have a life because you are saying something negative about Bowie...
you don't have a life because you aren't even interested in bowie's new music yet you come to a DAVID BOWIE FAN SITE and say that you aren't going to buy his album before even listening to it. why bother coming to the site if you know before you listen to the album that you aren't going to like it? you have no reason not to buy the album but lack of faith in Bowie and you're at a Bowie Fan Site... If you expect to come on and express your blind lack of faith and get a positive response (AT A BOWIE FAN SITE), then you're kinda delusional.
if you had some sort of basis for your negativity, then i wouldnt have called you pathetic. but thats what you are

go out and do something that actually interests you, if his music doesn't anymore... and don't come on here and say you aren't going to buy his new album...


nigelp: oooh someone's taking on Twister again!

Time to sit back and let the sparks fly....


sedan:

In reply to:

and don't come on here and say you aren't going to buy his new album...


but twister is going to buy the album- its rose stardust who isnt.

twister...

In reply to:

I'll buy it, of course,, and there'll probably be at least a couple of really good songs on it, and I'll be content with that


When theres something strange, in the neighbourhood. Who you gonna call? Those bastards!


white rabbit: I guess I'm kind of the same mind as NoGame in that I'll buy it, most likely the day it's released, but I'm not going to spend huge amounts of time speculating in advance on whether it'll be good or not. I can easily wait for 2 months to find out. And even then, I'm sure our opinions on it will differ greatly. That will be more interesting.


Jaz (anonymous): Why does anyone not want to buy it??? he's obviously going ahead with it (stubbornly) . anyway (if you are on BNet) i thought he does stuff musically, etc, that will include you/fans/members.

He may not care anyway. he always has wrote for himself in a way.


twister:

In reply to:

you don't have a life because you aren't even interested in bowie's new music yet you come to a DAVID BOWIE FAN SITE and say that you aren't going to buy his album before even listening to it.


You're an idiot. I could say that over and over again and nothing else and you'd still be chewing my dust. Let's try it again. You're an idiot. Anyone else want a go? This is fun. Idiot. I am buying the new Bowie album. You seem to be confused here. But relating what you're saying back to Rose_Stardust why does one need to be interested in Bowie's "new" music to come to a fan site? Pink Floyd haven't released a great album in almost twenty years, but I'd go there. John Lennon isn't doing much these days either, but I'd still go there, because there's more to life and to music than this very second. You think it's pathetic that a Bowie fan would be criticial of Bowie's modern day output, or come to a discussion forum despite not being so keen on their recent work? Lots of people here aren't particularly fond of Bowie's more recent output, and are here primarily for the man's classic output (myself included), does this make these people "pathetic"? No. It makes you an idiot. You're an idiot.

In reply to:

if you had some sort of basis for your negativity, then i wouldnt have called you pathetic. but thats what you are


You could re-read my post in which I listed all the reasons I was so negative. I'm not going to repeat them just because you're an idiot.

Idiot.


xgirl81: I think, I am going to buy Heathen, though I will listen to it before I buy it (at music shop). But even if I won't like it at first, I think I will buy it, because I know that I may start to like it after some time.
I didn't like I Will Be Your Slave so much, when I first listened to it, but by the end of the song I started to understand that I will probably grow to liking it in the future. And it's not a bad song, though I don't think that there's something new in it for Bowie.
As for the cover, when I first saw it, I thought that the eyes looked as from some pretty banal, tasteless horror movie, but with the right explanation for it, it looks a little bit different now.


Cisite: Something very frightening is happening......
We are the hardocore diehard Bowie fans, and yet some of us are saying we're not going to buy the album. What will be the attitude of the rest of the public?
Are we looking at the biggest commercial flop since Tin Machine Live?


Lee (anonymous):

In reply to:

I am not going to buy Heathen


what a stupid thing to say that his last records are bad, both Earthling and Outside are records full of new ideas and fresh stuff..

Outside featured amazing songs.
Earthling was refreshing in all ways and lots of ideas/elements of it are being used in the mainstream rock of today! (When I listen to say Version 2.0 of Garbage I can hear many parallels between it with Earthling...)
And than Hours... the record features some great songs, like New Angel Of Promise, Something In The Air, The Pretty things!. But I have to say it could have sound better if more musicians were used for it (sayMike Garson).

And does it relly matter if the record sells well or not?
I dont think commercial succes stands for quality, just take a look at all the rubbish in the charts now..
The people who buy singles are probably 13-16 these kids want to listen to easy understandable and accesible music. And Bowie isnt anything of that. plain simple as that

Lee -out


NoGame: Like I said, I will buy Heathen and like hours... I will love every second of it. All based on the excitment of A New David Bowie Album. No matter who plays on it, who produced or mixed it, whatever. It will be new and satisfying a need for new material. When hours... came out I liked every song on it. I played the record from beginning to end every day, a couple of times per day even. I don't think I will be able to give an objective judgement on the new stuff right away. It is silly, but that's just the way it is. I liked hours... in the beginning but now, after three years, well... I can write my name in the dust on the CD box.

Expect my opinion about Heathen some three months after release.

In reply to:

[twister] Idiot


What happened to 'cabbage'? I loved that one.


dice: i didn't buy hours... until many months after its release. heathen i think i will purchase much sooner. i think it'll be very good if not great

the album cover is great. bowie doesn't make bad covers

i haven't heard much jeff buckley at all, so i really wasn't qualified to make that statement. i was just trying to stir shit. he does seem a bit melodramatic, though

Lee (anonymous): Talking about Earthling ideas...
Right now Im listening to a song of the new Bryan Ferry record and guess what the song features a drum 'n' bass layer in it


twister:

In reply to:

[Cisite] Are we looking at the biggest commercial flop since Tin Machine Live?


No. I think the return of Tony Visconti will be enough in itself to tempt the interest of some of Bowie's less hardcore fans.

In reply to:

[Lee] Earthling [...] ideas/elements of it are being used in the mainstream rock of today! (When I listen to say Version 2.0 of Garbage I can hear many parallels between it with Earthling...)


Lee, tell me you're intentionally being ironic. Earthling was Bowie at his most trend-hopping. If you're hearing the same elements elsewhere, it's because they too are incorporating the same elements, not that Earthling itself was influential in any way.

In reply to:

[NoGame] It will be new and satisfying a need for new material.


This just seems entirely strange to me. But then I'm sure I seem equally strange to, well, everyone. I don't feel any "need" to hear new Bowie material. As far as I'm concerned he released enough albums between '69 and 1980 to last a life-time, he could retire and I wouldn't mind. In fact, the world of music has enough songs and albums as it is. People could stop making music now, and we'd still all die before we discovered every worthy album in creation. Besides, each album Bowie releases is only likely to increase the ratio of classics to non-classics in favour of the non-classics. At the time of Scary Monsters there were only a handful of Bowie albums that weren't classics. Now? It's closer to 50/50. Perhaps it'll only be a matter of time before the classic Bowie albums are in the minority.

Bowie's career somewhat resembles a joke that's been told, and has reached it's punch-line, and then carries on going on and on with little to say. And sure, that rambling's still pretty funny for the most part, but it would have been better without all the post-punch-line rambling.

In reply to:

[NoGame] What happened to 'cabbage'? I loved that one.


Don't worry, Claude's still a cabbage. That's just for Claude though. There's only one Claude. No-one else is quite like him. He is the epitome of cabbage.


NoGame: I don't feel any "need" to hear new Bowie material.

I'll respect that.

I don't care much for that 'classic/non-classic = 50/50' talk. I like Bowie to have a reasonable reputation, but on the other hand I don't care how everybody thinks about him, don't care about people who might be saying that "Bowie made more shit then brilliant albums". So be it, I think.
I'll go for the new material because I wanna hear what he came up with this time. And if he disappoints me, well, so be it, once more. I will go with your previous words, it's very likely there will be a few good songs on Heathen, and that makes his total of good songs again a bit more.


ALTOID (anonymous): Yea Baby, that's what I'm talking about!
There's so much shit the mainstream bomblast us with, makes me want to hack.
That's why Bowie(MOZART) music is timeless.


Halloween Jill: happy birthday to me!


Anonymous:

In reply to:

I am not going to buy Heathen




I wonder where your ears are???? His writing has been improving with the release of Outside


Claude:

In reply to:

But he no longer has the ability to write good music


Sorry, but You are telling a great bullshit!


Sysiyo: I am going to buy Heathen. I might have trouble with the fact that Bowie seems to be (at least in his comments) condemning atheist people, but I'm still going to buy it, and I'll probably end up liking it (thogh not as much as I otherwise would: I used to love Word On A Wing, but that was because I misheard the lyrics "love I kneel and offer you..." The song just has not been the same since...)


Claude:

In reply to:

There's only one Claude. No-one else is quite like him. He is the epitome of cabbage.


Thanx, twister, You are always speaking about me!


Chomsk1 (anonymous): How can you say Lennon isn't doing much this days? Last time i saw him he was sprouting a beautiful set of roses.

'hours' was disappointing and i don't listen to it at all these days, but 'earthling' was great! whilst it took from various genres it refracted them and created this organic/digital synthesis which WAS innovative IMO.


Rose_Stardust: I exercise my democratic right to only like music which is good.
I think Frank Black is a big fat twat, but i still like the Pixies loads.
I have friends who love Bob Dylan, but would never lower themselves to listening to his recent musical exploits.
Some people on this site are facist Bowie philes who believe Bowie love must be without limits.
I say Bowie is ace, but i also say he should have retired at 40.


RebekahAnn: I'm definitely going to buy the new album. I'd pay 15 bucks for a recording of Bowie reading from the phone book...


96dbFreak:

In reply to:

You silly people never fail to amuse me. Because expressing negative opinions on a Bowie discussion board is such a pathetic thing to do, right? And we should all be mindless drones, correct?


You’re such a hypocrite, Twister. It’s not OK for people to complain about those who slag-off Bowie on a Bowie message board (says you) but if someone (me, for instance) should dare to level criticism at your prog-rock or stadium rock icons, you get shitty. I think I’ve said it before, but it’s worth repeating – why don’t you hang around a U2 message board where you can all adore Prince Bono? Of course, that’s a rhetorical question – you wouldn’t do it because, like U2, it would be boring. You couldn’t bring yourself to criticise your darling New Dire Straits, so you wouldn’t get anyone’s back up, so you wouldn’t get all this attention.

In reply to:

The fact Bowie's working with Visconti again sets off alarms in my head, he hasn't worked with him in twenty years, why now? Lack of confidence? Wants to cash in on his credibility amongst the fans?


Bowie signalled a long time ago that this was going to happen. He and Visconti worked on some track (was it Skylife?) in ‘98 (somewhat less than 20 years) “to see if we could still work together” – or words to that effect – and they could. Then Visconti got Bowie in to work on a track for Rustic Overtones in 2000 (even less than 20 years ago). Then Visconti did some string arrangements for one or two tracks on Toy last year (blah blah 20 years). It was only a matter of time before they worked together again. And why shouldn't they work together? Few people would know Visconti’s name if it wasn’t for Bowie, not the other way around – “Oh that guy that used to produce T.Rex? Yeah, whatever happened to him?”

In reply to:

can we say "cheap shitty gimmick"?


Well, as a U2 fan you’d be familiar with those. Why can’t we say, “unusual artistic styling”?

In reply to:

Here's hoping he can prove me wrong.


Oh right, like it’s possible for you to admit to being wrong.


96dbFreak:

In reply to:

Talking about Earthling ideas...
Right now Im listening to a song of the new Bryan Ferry record and guess what the song features a drum 'n' bass layer in it


Ah, yes Lee, it is an interesting style. Did you know that, like rapping (which they called "toasting") it was invented by Jamiacan DJs?

The opening track of David Gray’s White Ladder album, (which, admittedly, came out in 1998), Please Forgive Me, also has a drum’n’bass backing, despite the song’s rather Dylanesque tones. It fits quite nicely, if curiously.

But we must remember at all times that no one is allowed to like anything that Twister doesn’t approve of first, so, sorry Mr Ferry, sorry Mr Gray, you’re not allowed to do it again. Bad musicians, bad musicians!


Paris:

In reply to:

jeff buckley


Kindly leave your Savior out of this!


BoES (anonymous): sorry if i confused names... that doesn't make me an idiot.
it was late. i was tired.

MY POINT IS YOU (being whoever has already decided that they arent going to buy the f*cking album) HAVENT HEARD THE F*CKING ALBUM!!!!!!
HOW DO YOU KNOW IT'S NOT GOING TO BE GOOD?

GIVEN THAT YOU HAVE ASSUMED THAT IT'S NOT GOING TO BE GOOD ALREADY, YOU HAVE NO FAITH IN BOWIE... AND THEREFORE, IN MY OPINION, YOU SHOULDN'T BE SPENDING A LARGE AMOUNT OF YOUR TIME ON A F*CKING DISCUSSION BOARD THAT MAINLY TALKS ABOUT BOWIE AND NEWS RELATING TO HIM. I THINK THAT'S KIND OF PATHETIC..

what happens if he brings out a critically acclaimed masterpiece that surpasses all of his previous works? what then? will you buy it?

yes you will...

for some reason you just enjoy coming on to a fan site and knocking the person who's site is dedicated to, describing him as 'old' and 'boring' and making profound statements about peices of art that you haven't even experienced...

YOU DO NOT KNOW IT WILL NOT BE GOOD

perhaps you are the old and boring ones, if the only style of music you can appreciate is his 70s and 80s albums.... be open minded and give Bowie a bit of F*CKING CREDIT... he has brought out damn good music recently.


Arthur0Dent: Actually, the herring thread has raised a good issue. This is being released by Columbia, part of Sony, the damaged, i.e. "copy protected," CD developers. If this is major enough to garner "copy protection," I shall be first in line to not purchase it. Or perhaps first in the return line. Depends.


SoulLoveChild:

In reply to:

I Would Be Your Slave scarred me badly, in fact I haven't had the guts to go back and listen to it a second time


If I had that attitude to every song I heard I wouldn't be here as one of the old time Bowiephiles today. There are not a lot of Bowie songs I've loved on first hearing. That's what I love about Bowie, finding stuff in his work over time. If I loved it all on first hearing I would be bored stupid with Bowie by now. If I didn't give all his 70's music a second or third chance, I would have fobbed it off as a teenager many years ago and would have passed up really classic stuff like TMWSTW and the like.


As for Bowie working with Visconti after 20 years - what's wrong with that? What if that was the attitude everyone took when Bowie said he was going to bring Mike Garson back into the fold after all that time apart? Look what we would have missed out on over the past 8 years or so without Garson tinkling his ivory magic for us.

Gimme a break twister, your self rightous attitude as the be all and end all of Bowie fandom has gone from laughable to downright boring.


Anonymous: SAME OLE SHIT! Assholes going off about something b4 it even sees the light of day,. you are an idiot. This is why the "real" fans never visit here any more. I saw your title in the front page and decided to tell you how STUPID you are get a life ho!..Ok, you have a popular post are you proud? Yup, get a fucking life loser!



trendy rechauffe:

In reply to:

At the time of Scary Monsters there were only a handful of Bowie albums that weren't classics. Now? It's closer to 50/50. Perhaps it'll only be a matter of time before the classic Bowie albums are in the minority.


Well actually, if you remember when Scary monsters came out, the albums you class as classics now, definitely weren't classics then.

Lodger, "Heroes" and Low weren't. Station to station and Young Americans weren't very highly regarded in Australia (didn't have much contact with foreign countries back then).

Diamond dogs?

Pinups at least gave Bowie a number one single here, but I wouldn't call it a classic.

I suppose Ziggy and Hunky dory were classics by 1980. Not a very high percentage.

Given time Bowie's newer material may end up being regarded as classics too.


Lee (anonymous): Re: Twister

Well I don't think it was popular at that time to fuse drum 'n' bass and rock elements..
Actually jungle wasnt very big at all here..

And I think you under estimate the infuence of the record (earthling)...
Sure not many people bought the record, but I think many producers and fellow artist heard it, and Im pretty sure that people like Billy Corgan ,Moby, Butch Vic etc bought/got the record since they are bowie fans..And Im also pretty sure that these people were inspired by the sound of it. Just listen to Adore by the pumpkins it features a lot electronic infuences, same goes for version2,0 or the way moby has been touring the last two years..


Lee (anonymous): Well Im absolutely not a bowie fanatic rose, I dont love everything he does. I dont have every thing he has released, I only own the Berlin stuff, the Tin Machine stuff, ziggy and The 90's stuff and of all these things I like his 90's period most..


twister:

In reply to:

[NoGame] I like Bowie to have a reasonable reputation, but on the other hand I don't care how everybody thinks about him, don't care about people who might be saying that "Bowie made more shit then brilliant albums". So be it, I think.


I don't care about whether other people think that either. Or that doesn't concern or worry me, would be a better way to put that. But it's not about perceptions, I'd simply Bowie rather didn't make more shit than brilliant albums. Regardless of how they are perceived by others.

In reply to:

[96dbFreak] It’s not OK for people to complain about those who slag-off Bowie on a Bowie message board (says you) but if someone (me, for instance) should dare to level criticism at your prog-rock or stadium rock icons, you get shitty.


Oh Stu, you're such a silly sausage. I think on this Bowie discussion board people should be allowed to express their opinions, whether they are negative or positive of Bowie, yes. I don't believe anyone should be told to stay silent, or labelled as "pathetic" for their opinions. I don't think saying "I won't buy Heathen" is any more pathetic than saying "I will". You are welcome to criticise Pink Floyd and U2 as much as you want to also. I don't believe I ever "get shitty" over this, but if you think I do, well top bananas. I may disagree with what you say about Pink Floyd and U2 (and if you interpret this as me "getting shitty", then I'm afraid you're a lost cause), but I've never tried to silence your view-point, because diversity is so much more interesting than BowieNet. BoES says in black and white "don't come on here and say you aren't going to buy his new album...". Go find a quote of me saying "Stu, don't come here and slag off U2, keep your anti-U2 opinions to yourself", then you will have a case for hypocrisy.

In reply to:

so you wouldn’t get all this attention.


If you really think I'm so hungry for attention, you could always start ignoring me. That'll really put me in my place. Oh dear lord, my greatest fear.

In reply to:

Few people would know Visconti’s name if it wasn’t for Bowie, not the other way around


I was thinking of Bowie fans, that have perhaps drifted during the post-Scary Monsters years. Or for that matter, music journalists that trot out the line "best since Scary Monsters" so often. What better way to get their interest than to bring in Tony Visconti? Coupled with the fact the album has been bandied about with names like Dave Grohl, Moby and Air about, kinda says to me he's maybe a little hungry for attention. Perhaps he doesn't think the album itself is good enough to make a big impression.

In reply to:

Well, as a U2 fan you’d be familiar with those.


I'm not really much of a U2 fan. Though the fact you asumed I was does explain why you diss them so often...

In reply to:

[SoulLoveChild] If I had that attitude to every song I heard I wouldn't be here as one of the old time Bowiephiles today.


Oh, get over yourself. "That attitude", indeed. I hated the song on first listen. I shall go back to it at some point, and perhaps after a dozen listens I'll think it's wonderful. Low is one of my favourite ever albums, and on first listen it was one of the biggest disappointments of my life. I threw in my "first listen" comment just to make it clear where I was in the "getting to know the material" process. I'm not trying to say "this album's gonna suck and this is why", rather I'm just offering the reasoning as to why my pre-release feelings are more than a little negative.

In reply to:

As for Bowie working with Visconti after 20 years - what's wrong with that? What if that was the attitude...


Again, with this "attitude"! The fact that Bowie feels the need to hook up with Visconti after all this time gives a bad impression to me. After all this time Bowie doesn't even need a producer, let alone a producer bound to get the attention of the music press. I'm not claiming that this is definitely the case, it's just the way it strikes me.

In reply to:

Gimme a break twister


You're absolutely right, I do apologise. I'll be sure to never say what I think or why I think it ever again, because I bore you.


Anonymous: wister you're just like a turd that won't flush.


twister: Stu, I've been desperately searching for anything that could possibly lead you to the conclusion that I "get shitty" when you slag off U2/Pink Floyd, or that I'm a hypocrite in endorsing people's right to be critical while not necessarily agreeing with everyone's criticisms of other bands, and I'm afraid I couldn't find a thing. Closest I found was this thread, in which regarding your semi-constant U2 bashing I said:

"I'm not criticising you for this (after all, if you were slagging off an unpopular band excessively you'd be preaching to the converted)".

Come on, it's not like that was made on a thread you didn't see, you posted afterwards (in direct reply, no less), so your accusations of hypocrisy are, well... suffice to say you're a silly sausage.


Claude:

In reply to:

I am not going to buy Heathen


Do You think the following Bowie's albums are not good music?

- Hours
- Earthling
- Outside.


SoulLoveChild:

In reply to:

I do apologise. I'll be sure to never say what I think or why I think it ever again, because I bore you.


Good. Now shut up.


96dbFreak:

In reply to:

Twister: I'm not really much of a U2 fan. Though the fact you asumed I was does explain why you diss them so often...


I'm sorry if this sounds ageist, but you flatter yourself - I was dissing them before you were born.

In reply to:

trendy rechauffé: Well actually, if you remember when Scary monsters came out, the albums you class as classics now, definitely weren't classics then.



Here I am being ageist again. Check Twister’s fan profile, Steve. He was born in ‘84. To him, Oy Vey Baby is a classic.


white rabbit: Hey anon, it strikes me that you might like this story by David Sedaris. I'm going to see him speak in a week from Saturday. Whoo hoo!


trendy rechauffe:

In reply to:

Here I am being ageist again. Check Twister’s fan profile, Steve. He was born in ‘84. To him, Oy Vey Baby is a classic


Gee I didn't realise. I just assumed Twister was a lot older than that. Well that explains a lot about his perceptions as to how well regarded Bowie's albums were back in the early 80s.


emallove: re: Sylvanelf

gosh ... how DID we ever forgive him for "God ONly Knows" off of Tonight?


emallove:

In reply to:

I wish I was capable of not buying his albums...



There's a twelve step program for this problem, i tried it --- taking one day at a time.


emallove:

In reply to:

Who Gives a F*ck weather you buy bowie's new album? What makes you think anyone cares about your worthless opinion?


yikes! let's all hope and pray, Ann Nonymous here won't become a registered user


Adam: As for selling, I don't think Visconti is much of an issue. Visconti is virtually unheard of outside Bowie and T-Rex circles, so I think the potential for mass appeal and publicity is far less than say, Moby producing the entire album.

Having said that, for those that have maintained close contact with Bowie's music (including music journalists), the collaboration will raise high expectations. So in this respect, the chances of them being disappointed is even greater.

twister: That's right Stu, ignore me pointing out your crock of shit "hypocrite" accusations, and argue against my tongue-in-cheek U2 aside instead. That'll put me in my place.

In reply to:

He was born in ‘84. To him, Oy Vey Baby is a classic.


I'm not trying to say Lodger and Scary Monsters were perceived as classics as early as 1980 (in fact, Lodger is perceived as such only amongst certain Bowie fans, I'd imagine), but that wasn't my point at all. Perhaps I shouldn't have used the term "classics" and referred to them as "amazing albums" instead.


th0mas: what i like about bowie is the ability to re-invent himself (and sometimes even music itself) and doing something different all the time. i was afraid of something like toys being released since i already listened to his "at the beeb" collection. and when stepping back into the past i think there are cooler songs than replayed-non-album tracks or different versions or whatever.


96dbFreak:

In reply to:

That's right Stu, ignore me pointing out your crock of shit "hypocrite" accusations, and argue against my tongue-in-cheek U2 aside instead. That'll put me in my place.


I don't think it's possible to put you in your place. You're unable to see anyone else's point of view.

I started to wade through your shit and begin to collect examples but it was getting overwhelming. So let me turn it around and go back to the original problem. People come on this board and slag-off Bowie. Other people have a problem with that. You, of course, have a problem with them having a problem with that because you think that it's a perfectly reasonable thing to do and that anyone who disagrees with you and your viewpoint is an "idiot" or a "cabbage" or a "silly sausage" etc etc.

This is a Bowie fan site. I'm not saying Bowie is beyond criticism (you are the only person around here who can't be criticised). But what's the point in slagging him off here? It's a fan site. Fair, valid, criticism of his art, or even of his business dealings, might be reasonable, but saying things like "he released enough albums between '69 and 1980 to last a life-time, he could retire and I wouldn't mind" and "Bowie's career somewhat resembles a joke that's been told, and has reached it's punch-line, and then carries on going on and on with little to say" and "people here aren't particularly fond of Bowie's more recent output" and "I don't have high hopes for Heathen." etc etc all go to demonstrate that you have no actual interest in Bowie at all and are just here to wind people up. Why do you think so many people get pissed-off with you?

OK, you like the "classic" albums, but you have nothing good to say about anything released after 1980. I don't think you're one of these, but I remember a friend of mine saying something funny to me in the early 80s. We were discussing "nouveau hippies" - young people who were, at that time, beginning dress like they did in the late 60s/early 70s and get into that era's music. My friend described them as "people who think 'Dark Side Of The Moon' is early Pink Floyd". You're probably not laughing, but the thing is that it's all about perspective. To us, it wasn't.

When I was your age Station To Station had just come out and I saw Bowie for the first time (May 8, 1976 - the day before my 18th birthday). It was 26 years ago, but I remember every moment of that day clearly. The excitement was palpable in London, which was a-buzz with Bowie. His picture and his music were everywhere. I still have the two The Man Who Fell To Earthposters I bought, they adorned many walls in the city that day. He'd just played five nights in a row at Wembley Arena (having not played in Britain for several years) and was about to play the sixth and final night. We'd gone through Major Tom and Hunky Dory and Ziggy and the Diamond Dogs and the plastic soul and now we were onto the Thin White Duke. I saw punks for the first time that night (not sheep in a uniform invented by Sid Vicious, but people expressing their individuality by being outrageously different) and six months later the world changed when Johnny Rotten took it by the balls and squeezed. Bowie was about to release Low. More exciting days. It's all about perspective. Have you ever felt a pure, natural, adrenaline rush inspired by the opening line or riff of a song? No, I thought not.

Your perspective seems to be that of cynical misery. Not the witty, tongue-in-cheek, "Heaven knows I'm miserable now", misery of a charming man like Stephen Morrissey, but rather a twisted (sic) misery that has its roots in some kind of dark, nihilistic fatalism that belies the joyousness that Bowie's music inspires in most of the habitués of this board. Nothing new is good to you (unless it's Dire U2, of course) and you wallow in dinosaur or stadium rock as some kind of talisman of better times.

You say "I don't particularly have a huge amount of faith in the David Bowie of 2002". So why in hell are you here? It's a fan site. You're not really a fan, are you? This is not a forum for someone who thinks that way, can't you see that? Seriously, why don't you go and inhabit a Pink Floyd or a U2 or (at least you have some taste) a Jeff Buckley (God rest his beautiful soul) message board? You'd be happier there. You'd be able to express your opinion about your real heroes and wouldn't get into so many fights and get bozoed into double figures.

twister:

In reply to:

But what's the point in slagging him off here?


This is a place to discuss Bowie. This includes both positive and negative opinions. Earthling bores the hell out of me, and the B-side of Low is absolutely beautiful. This is the place to say both of these things.

Your post is riddled with misconceptions of me. To be honest I don't know where you got them all from. I know I would never go so far as to try to fathom out someone's entire personality based on some posts they make on an internet message board, but hey, whatever floats your boat.

In reply to:

Have you ever felt a pure, natural, adrenaline rush inspired by the opening line or riff of a song?


Yes. I love music. I spend practically every penny I ever come across on getting new music, and I listen to it with almost every spare moment of my days (which, at the moment, is practically constantly). Yes, I've been so caught up in songs I would die to share the beauty of with someone else. Yes, I've had lyrics touch me right to my heart. Why assume otherwise? Because I dare to voice my low hopes for Heathen?

In reply to:

Nothing new is good to you


Utter, utter, bullshit. Radiohead's Kid A (2000) is one of my favourite ever albums. Other favourites include Pulp's We Love Life (2001), Blur's 13 (1999), Muse's Showbiz (1999), Travis's The Man Who (1999) and Richard Ashcroft's Alone With Everybody (2000). What's more, I've spoken favourably about all these at various points on the MB. I don't expect you to read through all my posts just to learn this, but likewise, I don't expect you to assume otherwise. Get over your idea of who I am, damn it.

In reply to:

you wallow in dinosaur or stadium rock as some kind of talisman of better times.


If I look up "presumptious" in my dictionary, I'd half expect the defenition to be "Stu". If you even pay a blind bit of attention to me, you'll find me defending modern rock, talking to people that fit your presumptions of me, telling them music is basically as good as it always was. Just because I love Pink Floyd and Bowie's 70's output doesn't mean I'm "wallowing" for "better times".

In reply to:

You say "I don't particularly have a huge amount of faith in the David Bowie of 2002". So why in hell are you here? It's a fan site. You're not really a fan, are you? This is not a forum for someone who thinks that way, can't you see that?


This is really the crux of the matter. I don't have a lot of faith in the Bowie of 2002. I love the man primarily for his 70-80 work, and after that it's more of a "bits n pieces" thing, yes. Have a word with Adam, or Evan, if you like. Alert them to my presence. Tell them they have someone here that's a free-thinking individual, and if they deem me as not being a "fan" solely because I have negative feelings towards Heathen, I'll pack my bags and leave without a word of complaint. Do you understand that 2002 is merely a blip on a very long line? Let me put that another way. There are plenty of people here that hate Tonight and Never Let Me Down. If this was 1985, would you be telling people "well fuck off. If you don't like Tonight you aren't really a fan, so fuck right off". It's exactly the same.

In reply to:

why don't you go and inhabit a Pink Floyd or a U2 or (at least you have some taste) a Jeff Buckley (God rest his beautiful soul) message board? You'd be happier there. You'd be able to express your opinion about your real heroes and wouldn't get into so many fights and get bozoed into double figures.


I don't consider myself a "U2 fan", so I don't want to go to a U2 board. Pink Floyd are a distinct possibility, but I really don't like their last two albums, so despite the fact I absolutely adore most of their work, by your standards I'm not allowed in. Jeff Buckley was fantastic, but there's really not that much to talk about, he only released one album before he died. Besides which, I really didn't like Sketches For My Sweetheart The Drunk very much, so despite the fact I have a huge amount of love for Jeff Buckley, I may have to mention my opinions about "Sketches", which would go against your twisted sensibilities. After all, a real fan would never say anything critical, would they? Besides which, I like David Bowie a lot more than any of those artists. Have I not said on numerous occasions Diamond Dogs is the best album ever made? Have I not claimed about half a dozen Bowie albums were worthy of the title "album of the year"?

IF someone disliked Bowie, and came here solely to criticise him, and to provoke people, I'd be agreeing with you. That is trolling, and shouldn't be accepted. But this doesn't mean fans like myself, and Rose_Stardust should be told to leave the site because we dare voice criticisms against someone we all come here to discuss.


ziggywombat:

In reply to:

you are the only person around here who can't be criticised



much as i dread the inevitable stu backlash...

i don't belive anyone said anything along the lines of "don't you dare criticize me", but you can't honestly expect that you can go about making critcisms and no one is going to contest you or defend themselves or thier views. that's what a messageboard is for. you're "allowed" to critisise twister all you like, or ruskie, or kirk or p2c or even *gasp* me. but don't get so snippy when they reply to you contesting your points. it's a discussionforum, not a bow to stu's superior knoledge and life experience forum.

but that's not how it used to be

96dbFreak: Hmmmmm, you seem to have missed the point entirely, but then, being a pal of Twister's, that's par for the course.

Bowie is criticisable. I'm not overly enamoured with Tonight or Never Let Me Down or even Space Oddity (shock horror) myself. But, once again, reasonable criticism is a different thing to the complete dismissal of two thirds of his career. It's a fan site - not the opposite.

In reply to:

don't get so snippy


Oh I see - they can get snippy but heaven forfend that I should. You wouldn't actually be a relative of Twister's would you? The skewed view is remarkably similar.

In reply to:

not a bow to stu's superior knoledge and life experience forum


Tell me in twenty years that you don't have memories that you'll share with others. I'm not trying to impress with my history, I'm merely trying to demonstrate that a wider perspective delivers the benefit of broader analysis. I know many of you guys are young. As I've made clear, I know what that's like - I've been there and done that and it's great. When I was that young I was fired by the joy of music, especially that of Bowie. To hear that some young people seem to have lost that joy is disheartening.


ziggywombat: well, i see you took my invitation, i'm not surprised. ah well. you're allowed, let's discuss.

In reply to:

Bowie is criticisable. I'm not overly enamoured with Tonight or Never Let Me Down or even Space Oddity (shock horror) myself. But, once again, reasonable criticism is a different thing to the complete dismissal of two thirds of his career. It's a fan site - not the opposite.


i agree, it is a fan site. but one who loves a third of his career is a fan i should think. we may see it differently. they should certainly be allwoed to come here, as should people who only own a third of his stuff, i had less than that when i first strated coming here, i was interested in learning more and getting advice on what to get. and i went from there.

In reply to:

Oh I see - they can get snippy but heaven forfend that I should. You wouldn't actually be a relative of Twister's would you? The skewed view is remarkably similar.


you can get snippy if you want, but don't expect not to get called on it, as others are when they are snippy. and you seem remarkably quick to do it, already you're trying to insult me.

In reply to:

Tell me in twenty years that you don't have memories that you'll share with others. I'm not trying to impress with my history, I'm merely trying to demonstrate that a wider perspective delivers the benefit of broader analysis. I know many of you guys are young. As I've made clear, I know what that's like - I've been there and done that and it's great. When I was that young I was fired by the joy of music, especially that of Bowie. To hear that some young people seem to have lost that joy is disheartening.


i didn't say that at all, feel free to share you're experiences, they sound quite impressive. that's something i love about this board, i can talk to people of different ages and situations than myself and learn about thier lives. that's excellent. but being older and more experienced isn't everything, and it does not mean younger/more inexperienced people are always wrong, or don't have a right to thier opinions. this isn't aimed at you specifically, alot of people seem to adopt this attiude. i garuntee you you'll get more respect telling us tales of all the great acts you've seen, trips you've taken, etc. that picking apart the youngster's grammar.

but that's not how it used to be


Rose_Stardust: You know i might be wrong about Bowie's new album. I don't mind though. I'm not in the position to buy anything at the moment anyhow so it wouldn't make much difference if i didn't think it would be crap.
I have enjoyed reading the responses to this thread. I like the way some people say i'm a loser and should 'get a life'.
I guess i find all this a bit silly really, but obviously some people have got a little over excited.
But really, 'get a life' is a very 14 year old thing to say when you can't think of anything more cutting or witty. Everybody has a life. Otherwise they would be dead. And as far as lives go i reckon mine is pretty ace.
I feel like singing a little song......................

I'm singing in the rain
Just singing in the rain
What a glorious feeling
I'm happy again

I'm laughing at clouds
So dark up above
'Cause the sun's in my heart
And I'm ready for love

Let the stormy clouds chase
Everyone from the place
Come on with the rain
I've a smile on my face

I'll walk down the lane
With a happy refrain
'Cause I'm singing
Just singing in the rain

Maybe the boring and old comment was a bit much, i guess there is no need for personal insults. Although old isn't really an insult. Hours, outside and earthling are all offensive to my ear drums. I think the last comment was a reply to a question somewhere on this thread.


Nyllewell (anonymous): I can't wait to buy it. I love change in music, and I hope to be surprised.


Adam: Bowie is at the tail end of a distinctly lesser album (Hours), and in parallel with the new album title (Heathen), I think the delay for new material has been a "test of faith" for quite a few.

Although, I am yet to fully concede that Bowie is in a period of decline (I am looking very forward to the new release), I do respect that fans have differing opinions. In fact, the general apprehension surrounding the new album is pretty standard (if not slightly less) than what I have seen here in the past.

On the issue of Stu and twister, I don't want to make a judgement on who might be bating who or which poster is the most genuine to the words they speak. Personally, I greatly value both of your contributions, and I think it is quite reasonable (and often interesting) that posters have differing opinions on Bowie's work and differing opinions in general.

All I ask is that people occasionally stop to enjoy the glory that is Rose_Stardust.


JtF: Well I hope that "Heathen" is more like his NINETIES (rather than his seventies) work; and I've been a fan since 1972! I'm as excited now about the forthcoming new album as I've ever been about any new Bowie album and certainly a lot more excited than I was before (and after) NLMD and Tonight were released!


JtF: Twister, your tendency to repeat the word "idiot" (and its various derivations) suggests that your accusations of idiocy have on this occasion been misdirected.


twister: Alright, Stu. I think being a fan is kind of like being in love. You can't justify it, there's no logical rules to follow to say "yes I am" you just know when you know. And you can't say "I love 21 of his albums and you only love 12 so you aren't a fan", because that's stupid. If I said "you can't love your wife as much as I love my girlfriend, because you don't approve of a few things she's done in the past", well, you see how ludicrous that would be? Love is love. Being a fan is being a fan. And it's condescending to tell me I'm not just because we like different aspects. For instance, next to WildWind and Sysiyo I'm perhaps the third biggest (that I know of) Never Let Me Down fan on the message board. I wouldn't tell you you're not a "fan" just because you don't like it and I do though.

Stu, I come here to hear what other fans think. If Rose_Stardust thinks his last three albums were painful and isn't going to buy the next one, then I want to hear that - and I don't appreciate it when people attempt to "silence" this viewpoint, call them "pathetic" for sharing their viewpoint and tell them, in no uncertain terms, that this kind of thinking isn't "welcome" here. Conversely, I like hearing WildWind spin her own interpretations based on Heathen song titles, and her excitement is infectious, and every time she speaks on the matter I get more excited about the upcoming release.

Stu, I don't think I've ever noticed you voice any kinds of criticism about Bowie. On this thread, saying you're not "overly enamoured" with three of his albums is the closest I've seen you come. Which is absolutely and totally fine. If you only want to talk about the things that you like about Bowie, then I can respect that, carry on. But I'm a critical person, damn it, Gilmour ran Pink Floyd into the dirt when Waters left, Abbey Road is one of the most over-rated albums of all-time (the weakest post-Help! album The Beatles released), the material Buckley left behind after his death mostly got by on sentimentality alone, Radiohead shouldn't have re-recorded Morning Bell because the Kid A version was definitive and the Amnesiac version sucks. Musically speaking, it's a good thing Kurt Cobain died because I don't think he would ever have topped In Utero. Oasis should have died after Morning Glory, because despite the fact I enjoy all of their albums to greater or lesser extents I think it's better to have a career that consists of two classics than two classics and two lesser albums. I consider myself a fan of all of these people, but I like talking about things I don't like about them.

I'm a Bowie fan that has both positive and negative views. I intend to share both of them, and I'm personally much happier in this forum where we can have threads like "5 worst Bowie songs" and "which is worse of the eighties trilogy?" than I would be at BowieNet where such things are frowned upon. If that's the kind of environment you're after, off you trot. If you're going to shriek out with cries of "witch! witch! burn the witch!" every time someone talks about something they don't like about Bowie, then you truly are a lost cause.

It may be "disheartening" to hear the Bowie of 2002 doesn't rock all fans' worlds (and I'll still be buying Heathen, and I never dismissed the possibility that it may be the best album of all time), but... just because someone doesn't warm your heart doesn't mean you can denounce their fandom and tell them to leave the site.


Tommyboy:

In reply to:

I am not going to buy Heathen




Why not LISTEN to it before JUDJING?
David came out with "Outside" after about ten years of very bad music, why don't we give him a LITTLE chance?
How can you judge music BEFORE listening to it?
How can you say that Heathen will "offend your ears"?
Just LISTEN.
Then JUDGE.




 
Entire thread
Subject  Posted byPosted on
*I am not going to buy Heathen (04/2002)  ziggfriedModerator02/11/11 10:29 AM
.*Re: I am not going to buy Heathen (04/2002)  schizophrenic04/26/11 00:28 AM
.*Re: I am not going to buy Heathen (04/2002)  ziggfriedModerator04/26/11 01:29 AM
.*Re: I am not going to buy Heathen (04/2002)  schizophrenic04/26/11 11:33 AM
.*Re: I am not going to buy Heathen (04/2002)  ziggfriedModerator04/26/11 06:28 PM
.*Re: I am not going to buy Heathen (04/2002)  schizophrenic04/26/11 10:01 PM
.*Re: I am not going to buy Heathen (04/2002)  tofuescape04/27/11 05:28 AM
.*Re: I am not going to buy Heathen (04/2002)  ziggfriedModerator04/27/11 03:45 AM
.*Re: I am not going to buy Heathen (04/2002)  Rose_Stardust04/25/11 07:37 PM
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