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Auntie Prism
(stardust savant)
02/21/11 12:42 PM
I am a Racist (03/02) [re: ] Reply to this post

Folks, it's a power2charm double bill! Here, p2c's musings on 'modern racism' are contested by WildWind and SnowChild. But eraserhead senses that WW's secondary comments to SnowChild are disproportionately harsh, and that their harshness is evidence that she and others are attempting to preserve a TW 'elite'. Thus, a lengthy reprise of eraserhead's 'holy cow' argument ensues, though he arguably butchers the finish with an open net waiting.

(Some relevant subject lines appear in square brackets after the poster's name.)



power2charm: [I am a Racist.]: The topic of racism in the modern world is both broad and difficult. Since short and sappy seem to be the order of the day here lately, I will simply tell you all a true story about yours truly.

I was at the gym on a Friday night about a month ago. I didn't arrive there in a bad mood - wasn't feeling any particular mood, really. But I walked up the stairs to the main floor of the gym and the first thing I see is this Asian guy on one of the good treadmills. He has the treadmill ramped up on an incline and he's running - shuffling - on it with a dead, tired look in his eyes, his black hair dripping with sweat.

I looked at him and thought spontaneously to myself, why do all Asians look like they should be pulling rickshaws when they run?

During the same evening I was in another area of the gym where there are free weights and barbells, and these two African guys were loudly conversing in their native tongue while "lifting," and it annoyed me. Partly because it was loud, and if the language were English I probably still would have found it grating. But partly, I admit, was the fact that I didn't come to my gym on a cold, wet Friday night to have a couple of Zimbabwes aka-laka-lakaling at me. (I must give credit for "aka-lakaling" - a dear friend from a former job once said she didn't fancy vacations to foreign lands where the natives would be aka-laka-lakaling at her, which struck me as funny).

Modern racism is a curious thing. Racism in the classical sense is dead, it is the province of lunatics. The racism I believe that I exhibit is something different. It is a desire for comfort. For familiar words and thoughts, for some homogeneity among all the diversity.

Here in the Northeast, there is more cultural diversity than in other areas of the United States. When I go to a coffee shop on a late Sunday afternoon, I know for a fact I will hear languages other than English spoken. I'm ok with that. But if the Chinese have their Chinatowns, then am I wrong to build ideallic Americanavilles in my mind? Are the people of Greenwich or Westport or New Canaan, Connecticut, wrong to build them in fact?

Yes, modern racism is a curious thing. I'm not convinced it is wrong.

ExquisiteCorpse: northeast US? try living in Southern Claifornia...EVERYONE lives here...

Don't feel bad for having the feelings you do because everyone else does too deep down in their human mindset...it's a part of being human, perhaps feeling uncomfortable towards differences...everyone is prejudiced in some way and that's why at the Museum of Tolerence in LA they wont let you walk thru the door labeled "not prejudiced"....because everyone has these sort of feelings, even if they're not all willing to admit to them.

Trash: I think it's good that you admit that you have these thoughts and feelings. Maybe you should go to these aka-laka-lakaling countries to find out that there is more in the world than the US of A, but that's an advice I can give to most americans I'm afraid.

fiGgU_: [I am not a Racist]: It's silly.

I don't hate a race because some ya ahabal speaks
in his own mother tongue louder than me.

I don't judge a whole race because someone runs different.

You're being silly, I don't hate Americans because of what
you just said.

Learn to see humans as humans and not people as races.

Arnold: Whatcha talkin' 'bout, power2charm?

-Anoney-moosey (Anonymous): [You're a New Yorker, right?]: p2c,

It sounds less to me like you're a true racist and more like you're just living in cramped quarters with all different kinds of people...like say...New York. I think you just feel squeezed out.

But, this kind of feeling, (of wanting to be with people more like yourself)...in my opinion, breeds racism, and helps those who really ARE racists to justify their actions.

-Anoney-moosey

Ruskie:

In reply to:

I looked at him and thought spontaneously to myself, why do all Asians look like they should be pulling rickshaws when they run?


lol, I love that line

dice: it annoys the hell out of me when i'm in the computer lab (where i have to be to do the assignments for a particular class) and the asian girls just keep jibber-jabbering endlessly. grrrrrr.

or black people who are really loud for no apparant reason.

i guess it just boils down to the people who ARE living stereotypes

valley girls - they're spreading

WildWind: [It makes me uncomfortable]: I would really, really hate it if someone who overheard my sister and me having a typical conversation made some comment like "God, I hate those loud Mexicans."

No single person is representative of their entire ethnic group.

ohramona: A person is a racist if they perceive their race as being superior to others. I didn't quite catch that tone in your post, but who knows. It sounds to me like you're experiencing a touch of xenophobia. Your comfort zone is being compromised by the increasing presence of "foreigners" retaining their own cultural distinctions. Turns out America wasn't such a melting pot after all, didn't it? More like a salad bowl with each ingredient retaining it's discrete characteristics. Chow down bro!

Tati_wl: [intolerance]: Well said, WW and Fig.

I feel thrilled when I meet someone who speaks a different language. I have several friends from Africa who came to study in the university here in Brazil; I used to ask them to keep talking in their natural language because I found it fascinating just to watch.

The same with Spanish speakers. I just love to try to talk to them in their own language or try to make them understand me in mine (the state where I live receive thousands, sometimes millions, of spanish visitors every summer).

Power2charm, don´t forget that for the Zimbabwe´s guys, you could be lakalaking too. They probably, if not certainly, prefer to speak their own language between themselves than English. And if you check carerfully, you probably speak loud with friends in front of other people once in a while, right?

It´s strange to read such intolerant commentaries - even if you just were kind of joking- coming from someone who was enphatic deffending the Jewish people in another thread (remember the discussion about the existence of the Jewish lobby, etc).
I always thought you were more tolerant than this.

th0mas: in a negative as well as in a positive way.

EuropeanCanon: [I'm a racist too]: Deportation and repatriation is the only answer. For instance, most crime in my country (England) is committed by male Caucasians. I advocate getting rid of these social deviants by sending them back to Caucasia. Scum, the lot of 'em.

emallove: for awhile it seemed racism was dying down - but then a bunch of yahoos have to go knocking down the world trade center; and you think there's not going to be racist sentiment after something like that!

so, my question is: is racism cyclical? it seems like it has its nasty flares and quiet periods - post 9/11 in the US is understandably a flare. In the case of today, I suppose it just takes a while for the American yahoos to come to the conclusion that not all Muslims are maniacal, 50-virgins-after-death-pursuing, brainwashed people.

Ruskie:

In reply to:

sending them back to Caucasia


Really, I'd love to visit the motherland someday. Be with my people, talk the native talk, and dance the native caucasian dances. To become one with my ancestors.

shambuei: i believe the problem is that PEOPLE are irritating.
it's hard to bear people all around you.
it's hard to be patient when you see people all day long and they act the way you don't want them to.... in a subway... anywhere.
i usually hate people, not a specific race.
i am a people hater and i'd prefer there'd much less of them around, really.
people suck.
people fucking suck.
people must die.
people are idiots that must be destroyed.
forever destroyed and never be back.
i would love to live in a city with say 5 people i like and not 3 or 4 millions.
i have written a book about everyone dying in my city and it is a happy book.
i would really prefer everyone dead.
i will kill you all, kill you all fucking people.
people fucking suck.
they must be dead so that i can be happy.
death is for people, people are for death.
DEATH, i mean death. another sptmbr11th, oh yeah Another One Please, A Huger One.
i'm not being sarcastic.
i want people dead.
DEAD.
people fucking suck.
hello

ohramona:

In reply to:

Really, I'd love to visit the motherland someday. ..dance the native caucasian dances. To become one with my ancestors.


Yeah, just don't expect them to exhibit any rhythm!

white rabbit: [Culture Club]: Yeah, that was a lame-ass subject title but it was the first thing I thought of and I'm in a time crunch -- trying to make enough posts at my school message board to keep my participation at a passing level ...

During our most recent monthly "community" meeting at work, a group of people from Sudan who all moved here within the past five years came and spoke to us about their culture which was very, very different from ours to say the least. They also said that they were adjusting to life in the US and to our culture. I found that interesting because our way of life must be a huge culture shock for them as well as learning about theirs. Interesting all the way around though.

eraserhead: [I love our immigrants]: I think most good people I've met or known have been "foreigners", immigrants, people of different "races"/cultures. I love talking to these people because generally they're so much nicer and also more interesting than the ordinary Swedes. Most Swedes are spoiled, greedy and shallow. 95% of all the "foreigners"/immigrants I've met or known have been really friendly and humourous and humble. I've had many classmates from different countries and I have nothing but good feelings for them. Many grocers here in this town are "foreigners"/immigrants and they're always so kind and polite. Same thing with the restaurants owners, for example the people at the Chinese restuarant here, they're too generous.

I think our Western culture is doomed anyway. Basically, life here in the West is all about competition, materialism, commercialism, industrialism. Everyone is competing to be greater than all others. As Iggy sings: "Which country is the strongest? / Who plays the best guitar? / Who fucking cares / Under the stars?" I've found Eastern idelogies way more valuable. I think the increasing interest in Buddhism among Western people shows that many of us are fed up with this crazy lifestyle.

The old spiritual teacher Sai Baba has said:

There is only one race, the race of humanity
There is only one language, the language of the heart
There is only one religion, the religion of love
There is only one God and He is omnipresent

Emil: [I am an immigrant]: I know where you are coming from, Power2Charm, I can admit to having the same kind of "racist" reactions to other people, but I don't see anything positive in it and I try to fight it. When I meet a black person, I immediately assume that he/she is more stupid than I, when I see an Arab I get scared. These are back-bone reactions which I try to fight (I occasionally consciously choose the bus seat beside arabs).

I think it is more difficult to be with people of other ethnicity than your own - you are right about that p2c - but it is also more rewarding. And my job gives me lots of opportunities to meet people from other countries - at the present I am an immigrant, if only from the neighboring country, and it is instructive to find yourself in that position. (On the other hand there are people who have travelled around the whole world and yet have not learnt the first thing about other cultures.)

Well that's some rant from my side - one more thing, EuropeanCanon, your post was the best!

twister: [I am Superficial]: I generally find white girls the most attractive of all girls.

schizophrenic: [re. shambuei]: That was the goddamn scariest thing I have ever read.
Please stay away from me.

th0mas: [re. schizophrenic]: hmm... but he is right... people suck. and the more different they are the more annoying it becomes to get along with them.

raggeBandywarhol: [re. twister]: I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not, but that's the way it is with me. I find a much smaller proportion of black girls attractive, for whatever reason. And even for non-Caucasians the proportion is smaller than for Caucasian girls. And I'm not a racist either. Many of my best friends over the years have been minorities.

Anonymous: [This thread has changed my opinion about several]: of you. And not for the better.

GlitterTrash: [It's pretty sad, actually.]: We're all racist or prejudiced in some way, but it's important to realize that people are all fundamentally the same. The only reason a person from one country or nationality may act differently than you is because of their culture and how they were raised. Yes, that post about wanting to just kill everyone was kind of scary, but humans are inheritantly dumb and greedy. All of them.
It's good to be honest, but it's better to to prove yourself wrong.

Paris:

In reply to:

For familiar words and thoughts, for some homogeneity among all the diversity.


It's good that you can recognize this and are not letting yourself blindly resent anyone. Because I know quite well what you're talking about. I sometimes, though rarely, think similar thoughts about a minority, but usually even in my head they are in jest; they are stemmed from something I heard on SNL the week before or something someone said. I don't consider you a racist, and in order to maintain your innocence, you need to maintain immunity to others' racist remarks, even jokes, and not let them sink in. If no one ever mentioned black people and criminal acts in the same sentence, I would never even think of it.

SnowChild: [re. power2charm]: Oh this is very nice. Isn't it very grand of some to assume that this board consists solely of those with a caucasian background and that you can just sit here, all so sagely and discuss those 'others' as if they were not part of your mists? So pat yourself on the back and not only congratulate yourself on being a 'modern' (the acceptable, politically correct of course, tasteful variety) racist, but a thoroughly modern Imperialist as well.

In reply to:

why do all Asians look like they should be pulling rickshaws when they run?


How proud you must be to know that if racism consists laregly of ignorance, then you've pass the test with flying (excluding black and yellow) colours. Asia consists of 12 regions covering among them middle, north, south, southeast, central Asia and ranges as diversely from Arabia to Palestine to Indochina. I am sure that the population of 30% OF THE WORLD'S LAND MASS DO NOT PULL RICKSHAWS. You are talking about 'Chinese' not 'Asian'. It's about as undifferentiating as saying that all Americans like to post up gratiously self-promoting rants of themselves up on public boards on the internet about their own personal behaviours, disguise it as a wide-spread communual feeling and expect nice polite behaviours because all this is modern and politically correct. Because to attack you would be to attack a core human behaviour. What I can't believe is that no one has dared to say anything less than nice because they all believe you. This as far as I can tell is personal disgruntledness and nothing more, so the only thing I am attacking is you.

There is no such thing as a new racism. It is the same thing as it always had been. The same old thing in brand new drag.

And power2charm (I remember you and you were intelligent when I remembered) in your desire for comfort and homogenity, do you honestly think that just because someone looks like you that they will be just like you?

eraserhead:

In reply to:

What I can't believe is that no one has dared to say anything less than nice because they all believe you [power2charm].


What? I liked Trash's reply. It wasn't that "nice". My reply was kind of "nice" but I don't "believe" in power2charm. I just thought it would be a good thing to send some positive energies to the people on this thread, so I quoted Sai Baba ("There is only one race, the race of humanity..."). Anyway, SnowChild, your post is right on. Well said. I think a lot of people here don't dare to say anything against power2charm because he is one of the sacred cows. Remember my infamous "Ass kissing" thread from a year ago? Basically, it was about the fact that some people here are sacred cows and no one is allowed to criticize them. A guy named "Strangeones" said something against power2charm, and basically all TWers told Strangeones (who of course didn't belong to the in-crowd here) to fuck off. They were very rude to him just because he had an argue with p2c.

Btw, Emil's post above is the most stupid post I've read since...well, since power2charm's post.

Cisite: The racism in my local area goes something like this

Welsh V. English
Welsh + English V. Asians

dice: [re. eraserhead]: you're both talking like dipshits. but, contrary to your own methodology, i will not judge you in the future based on your ill-considered comments of the present. i will respond, rather, solely to the content of your posts. ah, the beauty of the internet

as far as i'm concerned there are no sacred cows. i'll take the piss out of anyone who deserves it

p2c is a good guy. we need more of his honesty around here, rather than the all too common artifice-laced blather. if people are going to get lambasted for posting something honest, then it's gonna soon be pretty fucking boring around here

p2c did not make any derogatory comments about anyone. he merely exposed some of the irrational stuff that pollutes the minds of everyone to some degree. it's just that his subconscious well is perhaps a bit more impure that the next person

i applaud emil as well, though i don't personally understand the fear of arabs. with me it's probably the opposite

these prejudices go both ways. if i see a japanese person, i tend to think that she is well-educated. if i see an african, i usually expect him to be a nice guy. these initial impressions are corroborated by my personal experience. i don't fault myself for thinking this way, though maybe i wish i didn't

every single one of us has prejudices. if we didn't, how would we decide who to talk to at, say, a meet and greet? (well, ideally, i'd have a coin handy, but i'm a wierdo like that)

wildwind's a mexican?

Ruskie: [Racism, spread the word]:
Speaking of racism, i came across this article on ABC News today: http://more.abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/DailyNews/hategames020301.html

Looks like a fun game, eh?

I'm actually kind of supprised that all the years i've spent on the net, i've never explored racist websites before. The pro-white music page i found that funded the a-fore mentioned game had some interesting propaganda they were selling which you can pass out to your fellow white trash gain support for the white race. These are the ones that stood out most to me:

[pics missing]

And my favorite...

[pic missing]

(and no, i'm not a neo-nazi or a white supremacist, so save yourself the letter writing)

eraserhead: [re. dice]:

In reply to:

as far as i'm concerned there are no sacred cows.


As far as I'm concerned there are several sacred cows here. Whenever I say something against people like Dara, Einar, p2c, twister, or WildWind, a bunch of other people come to their protection. A couple of weeks ago, I had a discussion/debate with WildWind, and immediately three or four girls plus twister were on my back, defending her. Certain people here are 'untouchable'. If you say something against them, you'll get a lot of enemies.

I don't think power2charm is a racist. I think he started this thread because his ego told him to do it. What's the best way to get attention? Well, you say something really shocking, like "I am a Racist" - it doesn't get any better than that.

In reply to:

he merely exposed some of the irrational stuff that pollutes the minds of everyone to some degree


Speak for yourself.

In reply to:

i applaud emil as well


Yeah? May I ask why this statement: "When I meet a black person, I immediately assume that he/she is more stupid than I" is worth applauding?

3rdEye (Anonymous): I'm not a racist, I think, but sometimes I can feel those thing you mentioned, power2charm. I feel terrible whenever I do, and try to push those thoughts away, because in my heart I know that all's equal.

Peace out.

ohramona: [I'm a Racist, you're a racist, he's a racist, she's a racist, wouldn 't you like to be a racist too?]:

Just ran across a link where you can ask and answer all those questions that are of a sensitive nature, and might make others suspect you are a *gasp* racist. It's worth checking out. It's not the experts talking, just plain people like you ... and me ... and them ...

dice:

In reply to:

Yeah? May I ask why this statement: "When I meet a black person, I immediately assume that he/she is more stupid than I" is worth applauding?


because he makes no attempt to justify the thoughts that he has. the way i interpret that comment is that it's a knee-jerk reaction that he does not have control over. maybe emil could clarify

In reply to:

Speak for yourself.


do you mean to tell me that when you are in the presence of a minority that you don't instinctively say to yourself 'that's a minority'? because if you notice this, it's inevitable that there will be some sort of judgement of that person - their outlook, their background,something

have you ever said 'that guy's really dopey looking'. same thing, just different criteria

we make judgements about people every single day, whether it is about the color of their skin, or what they are wearing, or how many tattoos they have. these might be positive or negative judgements, and they are, for the most open-minded of us, very subtle, but they're there. we're not like dogs, who, tail wagging, just run up and sniff every new person they meet. humans, like it or not, use judgement

WildWind: [I am a sacred Mexican]:

In reply to:

[SnowChild]What I can't believe is that no one has dared to say anything less than nice because they all believe you.


I take offense to this, as I as well as Trash, FiGgU_, Tati_wl and EuropeanCanon all indicated that we disagreed with the expressed sentiment. Some were done with sarcasm, some were explicit.

As far as the tone, I can only speak for myself in explaining why I made the short post that I did rather than exploding in an angry ball of hell fire. It's because racism primarily makes me sad. My initial reaction was sadness, and the best way I knew to express it was by saying what I said. I also know power2charm well enough to know that an angry ball of hell fire will only egg him on.

In reply to:

[eraserhead]Remember my infamous "Ass kissing" thread from a year ago?


Yes, eraserhead, we all remember this post, because you mention it every chance you get, and not always in its defense. I recall you semi-denouncing it recently as you acknowledged that you have "sacred cows" of your own - which I've observed that you most certainly do. You can't just attach your name to it when it's convenient for you, and you certainly can't flip-flop. Well, you can, but it would make you a hypocrite.

In reply to:

[eraserhead]Whenever I say something against people like Dara, Einar, p2c, twister, or WildWind, a bunch of other people come to their protection. A couple of weeks ago, I had a discussion/debate with WildWind, and immediately three or four girls plus twister were on my back, defending her.


So there's no possibility that these people actually agreed with what I had to say? These people weren't defending me, they were offering arguments in defense of my opinion, which I and apparently others believe is correct. For Heaven's sake, eraserhead, is every agreement with a well-known poster a result of their being a "sacred cow"? Or is it just every agreement with a well-known poster that doesn't agree with you?

And as far as my being a "sacred cow," I've got six bozos (maybe more by now) and was recently told to jump off a cliff and make the world a better place (a comment for which the poster later apologised, but if I were so damn sacred she wouldn't have made it in the first place). So much for your theory.

I suppose that none of what I've said in this post is particularly on-topic as far as the racism issue, but I believe I've already indicated what my level of agreement with p2c's assertion is. I've just chosen to, in this post, reply to new issues raised with which I disagree.

In reply to:

[dice]wildwind's a mexican?


Does it matter?

twister: [I am a Cow]: Eraserhead, what exactly is your point in your "sacred cow" of which you speak? You really think your debate with WildWind would have happened any differently if WildWind were a relative newbie saying the exact same things? You really think the masses, including myself, are incapable of independant thought and flock in when someone they like is disagreed with immediately to defend them? That just ain't true, eraserhead.

In the example you cited with WildWind, you didn't gain any "enemies" for disagreeing with a popular poster, rather you had a few people disagreeing with your opinion, regardless of which poster you were initially arguing with, and saying so.

Of course you'll no doubt just continue on your drama queen way regardless of what I say, and no doubt think I'm disagreeing with your "sacred cow" theory solely because power2charm is one of those "cows" rather than out of a genuine difference of opinion.

power2charm: [Sacred Stud]:

In reply to:

Asia consists of 12 regions covering among them middle, north, south, southeast, central Asia and ranges as diversely from Arabia to Palestine to Indochina. I am sure that the population of 30% OF THE WORLD'S LAND MASS DO NOT PULL RICKSHAWS. You are talking about 'Chinese' not 'Asian'.


I only partially concede this point. Granted, I used the word Asian so as not to offend; you will concur with my assessment that oriental is for some reason out of favor, and might have worked better. Certainly, I do not mean 'Chinese' as the Japanese, Thai, Vietnamese, and even the Koreans and Phillipinos all look pretty spiffy yoked to a rickshaw, imho.

In reply to:

And power2charm (I remember you and you were intelligent when I remembered) in your desire for comfort and homogenity, do you honestly think that just because someone looks like you that they will be just like you?


No, they will ideally behave like me as well. Believe me, SnowChild, that in spite of the less-than-proper thoughts I shared earlier, if the rest of humanity were just like me there would be none of the social problems of today. Why? Because everybody would act identically, and all social discomfort would evaporate.

My racism is nothing special, it's really not very different at all from the 'racism' of Matt Groenig, who populates the Kwikee Marts of The Simpsons' world with Indians. It is trained - I would be much less likely to share personal unniceties I've thought about "African American" culture because they have made it plain that the suffering of their ancestors is a precious gift that they alone can wallow in today. Asians, on the other hand, haven't been persecuted to nearly the same degree (in the US, at least), and they haven't organized here to keep past persecutions an open wound. Therefore, it is easier to "share" about them.

This previous paragraph, imo, is a lot stickier than simple jokes about rickshaws and the strangeness of other languages. What was that first post about? I admitted some things I've thought, conjectured where they came from and that's it. I'm glad some people were disappointed, shocked, found them funny, agreed to similar feelings. The response should be varied.

The fact is, you can't be hell-bent for diversity and then expect different cultural groups to get along perfectly. Remember the movie (or book) the Lathe of Heaven, about a guy whose dreams became reality every morning? He tried to harness his dreams for good, and forced himself to dream that all people could get along. When he woke up, everyone was the same color - bluish green. THAT'S my point. Put away the old world into your attic or basement, because you live in the NEW WORLD now.

Ruskie:

In reply to:

You really think the masses, including myself, are incapable of independant thought and flock in when someone they like is disagreed with immediately to defend them? That just ain't true, eraserhead.


Well, maybe not you twister, but i would definitly say the masses do display that reaction. I can personally vouch for such myself just earlier this week.

dice:

In reply to:

Does it matter


i would be heartened by the newly realized diversity of the board!

oh wait...should diversity matter?

WildWind: [The value of diversity]:

In reply to:

oh wait...should diversity matter?


That's a very interesting question, to which I had to give a fair amount of thought.

And I've come to the conclusion that while diversity is desirable, it's not something that should necessarily be actively pursued and touted. Let me clarify:

The reason diversity is desirable is not so that a person can declare how very diverse his or her life is, it's because of the variety of interesting and rich experiences that people from various backgrounds can offer each other. To that extent, it doesn't matter if you *know* how diverse your surroundings are, it's the experiences that count.

A person shouldn't necessarily go on an active search to make his or her surroundings more diverse, it will happen to most of us naturally. And when it does, we shouldn't pat ourselves on the back so much as be appreciative that we have all these different people around us.

So I suppose it's interesting to know my background from like a census perspective, but it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, because I'm bringing the same things to the table that I was before you knew.

GlitterTrash: RE: "Certainly, I do not mean 'Chinese' as the Japanese, Thai, Vietnamese, and even the Koreans and Phillipinos all look pretty spiffy yoked to a rickshaw, imho. "

I find this really disturbing. This isn't about what a person does, it's how a person looks.
Okay, so you've realized you're prejudiced, and that's good. But it's not happy-face cute FUNNY. So imagine an Asian person reading it and feeling like crap because you can't separate the person from this outdated stereotype.

PHOENIX:

In reply to:

You really think the masses, including myself, are incapable of independant thought and flock in when someone they like is disagreed with immediately to defend them? That just ain't true, eraserhead.



I have to disagree with that statement. I've found through experience that groups bound together (strength in numbers) frequently change their opinions to defend each other.

Emil: [You did not read my post]:

In reply to:

Btw, Emil's post above is the most stupid post I've read since...well, since power2charm's post.


READ MY POST BEFORE YOU JUMP ON ME!
I respect you highly eraserhead and it surprises me that you are not able to read typed text.
What I said was, I have certain back-bone reactions towards people of other ethnicity, which come about because I have grown up in a (more or less) racist society. I cannot help that, I know that this is wrong and I try to fight these back-bone reactions. I am working with myself and trying to get rid of my unfortunate, inherent prejudice. I certainly do not think that blacks are stupid - but, unfortunately, the first thing I think when I see a black person is that they are stupid. So then I have to, consciously, convince myself that my back-bone reaction was wrong an this person is worth to take seriously.
This is better than just going around and being convinced that "I have no problems, I have no prejudice, I do not need to work with myself".

Do you understand?

(Thanks dice - at least one person understood what I wrote )
Edited in order to soften some of the angry words against eraserhead.

eraserhead: [Dead fish]: dice, I am a minority of one. I have absolutely nothing in common with most Swedes. When I am in the presence of a minority, I feel nothing but love, because I belive in minorities. As Kirk says: I am lover of all things unique. The outsiders are, in my opinion, the only interesting people. Only dead fish swim with the stream.

Anyway, it's really a strange world this. WildWind says she takes offense to SnowChild's post, but WW didn't say anything against power2charm nor Emil. Why? Because p2c is p2c and Emil is Emil. They're part of the in-crowd. When was the last time you saw a member of the in-crowd criticize another member of the in-crowd? (Of course I realize that if I continue to post on this board, then someday perhaps I will be a member of the in-crowd myself, so to prevent that from happening, I once in a while post things like the Ass kissing thread, or I post messages like this one. It's a way of keeping myself "outside" because I don't want to end up like a dead fish.)

But WildWind and twister, why don't you turn your attention from me and instead turn your attention to Snowchild's post - re-read her post and then hopefully you'll realize that she's absolutely right and that power2charm's post and Emil's post are plain stupid. You and me we could go on and on like Israel and Palestine, fighting till the end of this message board, but let's not do that. You two really seem to have a lot of energies, so focus those energies on something constructive instead. Like trying to understand what Snowchild is saying.

In reply to:

Yes, eraserhead, we all remember this post [the Ass kissing thread], because you mention it every chance you get, and not always in its defense


I mention it because I have a great sense of humour. I don't have "sacred cows" of my own. I never posted to the "Favourite TWers" thread. I don't make those kinds of lists. Last week I did mention a few names of people I like, and those people are all "one of a kind", really unique posters that never go with the flow.

In reply to:

So there's no possibility that these people actually agreed with what I had to say?


Possibly, but I doubt it. twister and you have formed a nice little alliance which makes it hard for anyone to disagree with twister or you, seeing as you're the two toughest debaters around.

In reply to:

[twister] You really think the masses, including myself, are incapable of independant thought and flock in when someone they like is disagreed with immediately to defend them? That just ain't true, eraserhead.


Well, as you can see, both Ruskie and PHOENIX (and I) disagree with you. Troughout history, the masses have shown that they are incapable of independant thought and flock in when someone they like is disagreed with immediately to defend them. That's the mob mentality. As I've said, most people are idiots. Of course, they're not idiots forever. It's up to them. You don't have to be a dead fish if you don't want to.

Emil: [you got me all wrong eraserhead]:

In reply to:

power2charm's post and Emil's post are plain stupid.


OK, I shall give this one more try.

It is a sad fact that many of us have racist tendencies without really being aware of it. I know I have. One should not, like p2c, try to justify these racist tendencies - instead one should try to fight them the best that one can.
Translation to Swedish:
Tyvärr är det så att många av oss har en massa fördomar vi inte är medvetna om - jag vet att jag har det. p2c vill bejaka och urskulda dessa fördomar, men jag menar att man måste bekämpa dem så gott man kan.

I never knew I was a member of the in-crowd? When did that happen?

eraserhead: [To Emil]: Emil, you said: "When I meet a black person, I immediately assume that he/she is more stupid than I" and then you did explain that that's a back-bone reaction which you try to fight, but still, I get upset with I read things like that. I've grown up in the same society as you, I have some relatives who are more or less racists. Many people in my neighbourhood are racists, many people I went to school with were/are racists. But I am not a racist, have never been a racist and will never be a racist. I don't think you can use the enviroment, the climate around you as an excuse. So when you say "I cannot help that" I can't really agree with you. I've grown up in the same society and seeing all the racism around me has only made me more anti-racist. I'm sorry that it affected you this way. I've always thought we humans are meant to face a certain amount of ugliness and evil so that we will feel very strongly against it. So it's sad that the racism around you almost made you racist, well, at least made you feel weird about black people. I think we're facing unpleasent things to learn to "hate" those things. But I think it's good and necessary that you are trying to get rid of your unfortunate, inherent prejudice.

I also think you have to understand that people will react when you have feelings like that. Don't you think black people, people of other "races" who read your post felt hurt? Anyway, I'm sorry if I was a bit hard on you, but I really think that it's stupid to feel the way you feel. I don't think you are stupid, I don't think you are a bad person, I think you're a really nice and kind and smart guy, but I think that "statement", those feelings are stupid. I expected you to say something against p2c, I didn't expect you to more or less agree with him, you know. So I reacted strongly because I felt "let down". Seeing as you're an old communist with his heart in the right place, I thought your feelings on this would be very different.

Emil: As I said, it makes me sad that I cannot act naturally towards a person of different ethnicity. I am working on it and I think I'm improving every day - after all I work at a place where I meet people from all around the world (although most from the West). I am sorry that my first post sounded like I was condoning p2c.

It is probably true that any black person will be disturbed to hear that I have to think twice every time to convince myself that they are actually as smart as anyone else. It makes me disturbed as well! But I am being conscious about it and trying to change it.

When I hear someone saying that "I do not treat women and men differently", "I do not treat Swedes and immigrants differently", I cannot help thinking that they might be deceiving themselves, and they ought to probe their inside, face their inherent prejudice AND THEN do something about it. That was my point.

Oh, and on second thought, I might go back to my previous post and erase a few curse words and insults - I was rather mad since I felt I was accused of being a racist when I in fact see myself as quite the opposite. (and still very much a member of the left party.)

eraserhead: [I'm a hothead]:

In reply to:

As I said, it makes me sad that I cannot act naturally towards a person of different ethnicity.


Well, I think many Swedes, many people all over the world are like this, but it's not racism, they're not racists, it has more to do with facing the unknown. When we face the unknown, we become uncertain of ourselves. We fear the unknown, and the unknown can be a man in a dress, or it can be a sickness, or whatever. We're all afraid of the unknown. Personally, I'm definitely not afraid of people of different "races" but I'm afraid of other unknowns, like Death.

In reply to:

...I am being conscious about it and trying to change it.


That's good. From reading your posts from the last couple of years, I can't imagine you being a racist or anything like that. As you probably know by now, I'm a hothead. :) I think that's something I need to work on. :) Anyway, I see your point clearer now. It takes a big man to admit he's wrong, and I think I was a little too aggressive maybe. It's just that I've never liked racist jokes. (I'm not talking about you here.) Racism should be taken seriously. And I think if one is continuing to use words like "nigger" or if one is making racist jokes, he or she is not part of the solution.

twister: [The In-Crowd]:

In reply to:

I have a great sense of humour.


Now that is funny.

In reply to:

I don't have "sacred cows" of my own. I never posted to the "Favourite TWers" thread.


That's not the same thing at all. Sedna, for instance, is one of my favourite posters (and I listed her as such) but that didn't stop me from telling her I thought she was completely wrong on the "thbdbh" discussion, and that saying "so sue me" should be a hangable offence (which it should).

In reply to:

twister and you have formed a nice little alliance which makes it hard for anyone to disagree with twister or you, seeing as you're the two toughest debaters around.


Bullshit. I'm starting to wonder if you actually believe the trash you spew or if this is your idea of the great sense of humour you claim to posess. WildWind and I do hold some common beliefs, (the 'thbdbh' phenomena, and the debate on the Sex And The City thread being the only two I can think of) the fact that we both choose to argue them doesn't mean we've formed any kind of alliance to argue on another's behalf. Is Teenage Wildlife so boring for you that you spend your days hatching your own conspiracy theories to liven things up in your own mind?

In reply to:

As I've said, most people are idiots.


I don't believe that. You really, utterly and truly believe that in instances like the 'Sex And The City' thread I was arguing against you more because I liked your opposition than out of a genuine disagreement? And that the masses are just as idiotic as your perception of me? And that you, and an elite few alone, are somehow better than that?

In reply to:

When was the last time you saw a member of the in-crowd criticize another member of the in-crowd?


Well, seen as there is no fucking in-crowd I'd have to say "never", but going by the best I can ascertain of your perception of this imaginary crowd, from my own experiences I'd pull up WildWind recently accosting me for what I've had to say about 96dbfreak, the numerous clashes I've had with power2charm (I believe it's "feckless tit" he's been known to refer to me as), the rather heated WildWind VS. Einar Perfect Day debate (by the way, WW, Einar was right, they completely destroyed the song). I believe WildWind's first post on this thread was very much against power2charm and what he was saying. What about Kirk, is he a member of your in-crowd? It's hard to tell given it's a figment of your imagination, but he seems to be a popular fellow and he denounced a thread of mine regarding girls losing their virginity with other girls as "a classic, shit twister thread" - and if Kirk isn't a member of the "in-crowd" then where were my legions of supporters I allegedly have rushing out to my defence? That's just off the top of my head, I'd probably be able to come up with more, but seen as the in-crowd is entirely a figment of your imagination, and that I indiscrimately say what I think about anyone without so much as even thinking whether they're a "sacred" fucking "cow" or not, it makes it kinda tricky.

In reply to:

re-read her post and then hopefully you'll realize that she's absolutely right and that power2charm's post and Emil's post are plain stupid.


I don't think anything p2c nor Emil said was stupid, regardless of what SnowChild may have to say to the contrary. I think it's brave to admit to your less-than-perfect qualities and risk losing the respect and admitation of others. I don't think either poster said anything even remotely hateful or racist, and if they did I imagine I would have lost a great deal of respect. p2c admitted to a line of thought that is natural, if not exactly universal - the first thing I notice about a black person is that they are black. This doesn't colour my perception of said person in any way, but upon sight my mind says "black person" instead of "person", likewise your mind may say "fat person, disabled person, blatantly homosexual person" or whatever the case may be. After having thought this I always mentally scold myself and say "no, why differentiate, a person is a person" but the first thing my mind identifies them by, generally speaking, is that they are black. It's the first thing I notice. It's kinda hard to miss. In the first year of college I would get pissed off when the Chinese students would hog all the computers - not because they were Chinese, and it certainly didn't extend to a hatred of the Chinest, but because they were hogging all the damn computers. And it feels uncomfortable sitting amongst people that are speaking a language I don't understand - and I appreciate that this must be what it's like for the foreigners living in England - but that doesn't make it any less uncomfortable when I'm the odd one out.

So no, I don't think power2charm or Emil said anything stupid - and that is not because of who they are, but simply because I don't believe they said anything stupid.

Rather than words comes the thought of high windows


 
Entire thread
Subject  Posted byPosted on
*I am a Racist (03/02)  Auntie Prism02/21/11 12:42 PM
.*Re: I am a Racist (03/02)  Auntie Prism02/21/11 12:44 PM
.*Will I post another of this length? Probably not  Auntie Prism02/21/11 12:45 PM
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