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Auntie Prism
(stardust savant)
02/25/11 04:37 PM
Help Glitterbot Get to College!!! (05/03) [re: ] Reply to this post

It's the TW class of '03, and Wraith2 and Glitterbot are considering their university educations. Noting the financial burden of higher education, Wraith2's 'Get Glitterbot to College' campaign begins shakily, and is derailed altogether by the news that eraserhead paid for his purebred dog, Mimi.


(Some relevant subject lines appear in square brackets after the poster's name.)


Wraith2: That's right, fellow TWers, sister Glitterbot is in dire straits. Her parents unfortunate financial condition coupled with Hampshire College's meagre financial aid and scholarship offers are putting dearest Glitterbot's future in danger. Her creative potential is being squandered in a sub-par community college in an unsavory and dangerous section of San Fransisco.

But it's not too late! Disaster can be averted! All you have to do is contact either Wraith2 or Glitterbot with your pledge of support. Pledges at the 150 dollar level will receive the classic Glitterbot tote bag (well, not really, but any contribution will get you a nice thank-you letter).

Give 'til it hurts...for Glitterbot's sake! (Eraserhead and Remade/Remodeled: this means YOU! )

anisette: [Help Glitterbot Make a Collage!!!]: Here's my first contribution to the Glitterbot Collage Fund!



Good luck Littlebot! I hope you and Lexy can find a way to be together!

power2charm: [Why not get some bang your buck, 'bot!]: Gbot should go to a UC and be content. Frankly, almost every state school in California would offer Glitterbot as good an education as Hampshire at less than half the tuition. I opine this as someone who lived in California for a number of years (Santa Rosa) and now lives in CT, 100 miles south of the Pioneer Valley. The point being, I've gotten drift of uni reputations in both areas.

Much of what one pays for with private schools is reputation and alum networking. With all due best wishes to you, wraith, everyone knows that Hampshire is the poor child in the Pioneer Valley. Same price as Williams and Amherst, but not even close in rep.

The entire upper tier of the California State system is held in high esteem nationally, and many of the lower tier schools - San Luis Obispo, San Diego State - are well regarded regionally.

Consider this too, 'bot: If you are not rich, and go to a "rich kids school" you are asking for heartache. Why go someplace where you can't compete? This was my fate at St. Olaf many moons ago, and frankly those midwestern lib arts schools are a lot less blue-blood than similar colleges out east.

You've been warned.

Ohramona: [Get higher, cheaper]: Yeah, you can get as educated as you want to, wherever you go, without breaking the bank.

Money maven Clark Howard highly recommends spending a couple years at a community college, then going on to your 4-year school, for value. And he knows value!

I'll do everything I can to help get skeezix through college, but I haven't saved a dime for this and I don't plan to. It's just not in my budget. Here in Georgia, we have something called the Hope scholarship, on which any kid who finishes high school with a 3.0 GPA can get tuition and books for any land grant college. You can apply this money for private schools also.

My advice: Borrow absolutely as little as possible to get through school. Live cheap, work, co-op, do internships, etc. Starting out into "the real world" with student loans hanging over your head is just a drag! It's my same advice for skeezix. And unfortunately, college is no guarantee of a job right now.

andro gene: [FUCK COLLEGE]: my advice to glitterbot: SKIP COLLEGE

college was a big waste of money for me. i almost regret going.

anisette: [but..but..but....]: Doesn't anyone want to contribute to the collage? It's the least we could do....

ohramona: [ Oh yeah!]:



anisette: [only centurian will get this]: "Is that a Picasso?"

neat photo ohro -- can you tell us its origin?

ohramona: [Why did the co-ed cross the road?]: Because Alexander Calder!

eraserhead: p2c, do you think the American education system -- a system where one has to be rich to get the best education, or the education one really wants -- is a good one? Wouldn't you prefer a situation where college/university, even the best, was free for all people, poor as well as rich. Here in Sweden, you can choose whatever university you want, including the finest (like Stockholm University, Uppsala University, or Lunds Univeristy), and whether you get in or not is not a question of money, but it's about how smart you are. What kind of grades you have.

I'm asking you this because I know you're a fan of the American way and a critic of the Socialist way we apply over here. Personally, I think it's really sick and really unbelievable that people who don't have the money can't go to the college or the university they want to go to. To me that's absurd. I can't believe it. But, as I understand it, over there, in America, it's just the way it is. No one is even questioning it. I'm not saying this to brag or to beat my Swedish chest or anything, I'm just really glad and thankful that I live in a country where I can choose whatever university I want, even the finest, with the best reputation, and it doesn't cost me a dime.

If I was Glitterbot, I would dump Lexy, move to Sweden and marry some Swede.

Wraith2: [Be true to your school!]: I'll concede that a key purpose of pricy institutions is to build connections and, while Hampshire certainly has that, there's far more depth to it. I'm glad it doesn't have the reputation of Amherst or Smith because I don't want to be judged by who my daddy is and where I went to school. If I'd wanted name recognition, I would have gone to Kenyon or Macalester. I wanted to go to a place where I could be an be creative, take learning on my own terms, and smoke a lot of pot. (And if I ever get tired of my academic freedom, it's not like I can't take classes at any of the other schools in the five college consortium.)

I don't want anyone to take this this as me slagging public and community colleges, it's just that they're not right for Glitterbot. She could very easily sleepwalk through fours years of such an institution, but she wants something more. Say what you will, but there are things that you get at Hampshire that you don't get at a UC. The quality of instruction, the self-motivation, the resources, and the faculty's closeness with the students simply can't be equalled at a school with so many more students.

In reply to:

If you are not rich, and go to a "rich kids school" you are asking for heartache


Nah, we'll just hole up in my dorm room and talk about how we're driving our parents to financial ruin.

In reply to:

With all due best wishes to you, wraith


I think you're being sarcastic, but thanks anyway.

In reply to:

If I was Glitterbot, I would dump Lexy, move to Sweden and marry some Swede


Hey, how much were you contributing again? I keep forgetting.

Bright: I can't afford the college I'm at right now...
so I sucked it up and took out loans.
Sure, debt sucks, but that's the way life is.

Outside scholarships are a good thing.
Workstudy? Also of the good.

Glitterbot: [i feel like i should reply to this thread]: You guys have really failed with the contributions. I saw this thread, and thought, "Finally!" But what do i get? anisette making jokes, ohramona making jokes, p2c offering practical advice...Think of all the amusement and joy i've given you people over the past year and a half! Can't you offer anything (besides your love, which means nothing?)

eraserhead: [Seriously speaking]: That's not the point. I'm happy for you two. What I was saying is that America is not the place to be if you want to, well, live a good life. Well, it is the place to be if you're rich. America is a playground for the rich. And I said some Swede, not this Swede, because I think marrying a Swede makes you a Swedish citizen, right? And, as a Swedish citizen, you get stuff Americans couldn't even dream of, and you get it for free. Hell, here in Sweden students are payed to study. The government is paying me for educating myself. And I don't have to pay them back. I get 300 dollars a month that I don't have to pay back. If I want more than that, I'll have to pay that back later. But the actual education, a place at a university, is 100% free.

You, Wraith, if anyone, would agree that Sweden is the closest to paradise you can get on Earth, in terms of social security, education system, health care. If you're into equality and justice, if you think free education and free health care is important, Sweden should be your paradise. That's all I was saying. The "dump Lexy" comment wasn't to be taken seriously.

The reason why I brought the Swedish situation up was partly because I wanted to know what someone like p2c thinks of it, and, also, because I wanted to inform other people, who aren't aware of the Swedish education system, that such system exists. Because Americans seem to think their system is the only system. It seems to me like, not even the poor, who suffer from it, would like to have it any other way, because, I don't know, it's weird. I think the Republicans have done a good job brainwashing people into believing that, unless you don't have money, you're not worthy. If you're not (relatively) rich, you should be ashamed of yourself, and you should realize that there's no place for you. It's like the Christian sin thing.[/quote]

power2charm: ['Bot - Go to Sweden! 'Head - marry Mimi!]: Glitterbot, if you want a free education, it appears those dopey Swedes give 'em away to foreigners too. Look Here to see about it. Now you don't have to marry one of those meatballs, just take the free education and then get the hell out before you get frostbit!

Eraserhead, what I *think* is that you don't know anything about American secondary education, and so dealing with your false impressions would be an exercise in futility.

I was from a lower middle class family and I went to a private school that charged more than my family could have possibly paid - $15,000/yr (in 1986). I got a loan for $2,500, got a campus job that paid for about $2,000-3,000 of the cost, and the rest was financed by the school's need-based financial aid system.

Wraith noted that Hampshire has no endowment to speak of, which I verified (only $18 million). Nevertheless, they claim that students in need receive over half the cost of their program in need-based aid. 'Bot would just have to take loans for the rest.

Ohramona told you straight up that wheezer's Georgia education will be substantially free. In Texas, the state universities' resident tuition is under $2,000 per year. Any fool could put in 20 hours/week at Starbucks and pay for that. So you see, nobody here is forced to go ignorant for lack of lucre. If there are situations where a school like Hampshire offers too meager a financial aid package for the middle class student's comfort, then that student can go somewhere else. It's nobody's RIGHT to go wherever the hell they want! Let's save our dour Euro tut-tutting for some REAL tragedies, okay?

How do you plan to pay Sweden back for what they've given you, Eraserhead? I think they should demand your dog.

In reply to:

I wanted to go to a place where I could be an be creative, take learning on my own terms, and smoke a lot of pot.


Wraith, if this is the attitude of the typical Hampshire student, then the school's reputation as a lightweight is well-deserved. If Macalaster accepted your application, then you made a mistake not to take them up on it.

Coan_teen:

In reply to:

Can't you offer anything (besides your love, which means nothing?)


Sorry, no. But I do offer my sympathy, though I know it doesn't help you any. I'm also looking ahead to the bleak financial years before me...So I don't have any money, or I'd give you some.

Sorry. But good luck nonetheless.

Marquis: [Learn Baby Learn]:

In reply to:

I wanted to go to a place where I could be an be creative, take learning on my own terms, and smoke a lot of pot.


This is like every college outside of Oral Roberts.

In reply to:

If Macalaster accepted your application, then you made a mistake not to take them up on it.


Seconded. Well, I don't know much about Hampshire actually, but I've spent a good amount of time with the Scots of Macalester, and they're good people up there. Plus if you get in any sexual violence related troubles, you can go to my friend Adam, who works there!

I also have to agree that the notion of a free UC education is pretty tempting, despite the gargantuan class sizes. But I don't know if that's even true outside of the biggies like Berkeley and UCLA. That and wanting to get out of your home state (which makes more sense in Wraith's case for sure) are the only two big draws, I think. Actually, I think the real point of this post is that I don't know anything about any colleges in America, least of all my own.

T.J. Newton: [All you need is love, love, love is all you need]:

In reply to:

Can't you offer anything (besides your love, which means nothing?)


Glitterbot, you're making me sad. Love is the strongest and the greatest power in the world and can destroy all difficulties and problems! So don't refuse!
Sorry for being ironic and sarcastic. I just don't believe in love.

But seriously, there's a really unfair system you have in the US - you can't study if you don't have enough cash. Even in Poland you can study for free... of course apart from the private universities and colleges.

eraserhead: [Örnbergets Mimi]:

In reply to:

How do you plan to pay Sweden back for what they've given you, Eraserhead? I think they should demand your dog.


I paid 800 dollars for Mimi. She comes from one of the finest dachshund families in Scandinavia. Her mother, Erica, just won a show a couple of weeks ago. So, yeah, I think Sweden would be more than satisfied with Mimi, but, obviously, I'm not letting go of her.

Wraith2: [It's! Ehhhhd! Yeeeew! Cayyyy! Shuuuun! Allll!]:

In reply to:

You guys have really failed with the contributions.


Don't worry, I'll still drop a fifty. Everyone else, this pledge drive is not, I repeat not over!

In reply to:

America is not the place to be if you want to, well, live a good life. Well, it is the place to be if you're rich. America is a playground for the rich


Agreed. I assure you, I'm duly impressed with the Swedish education system as well as many other aspects of your country. The only problem is that I don't speak Swedish. If I can stay at your house then I'll do my study abroad over there.

In reply to:

The "dump Lexy" comment wasn't to be taken seriously


Yeah, I know. You're all about Blockbusters, Sum 41, and Twister now. Glitterbot is yesterday's news.

In reply to:

nobody here is forced to go ignorant for lack of lucre


But you can't get the best education unless you can afford it.

In reply to:

Wraith, if this is the attitude of the typical Hampshire student, then the school's reputation as a lightweight is well-deserved


I'm sorry, should I have said, "I will get a 4.0 every semester or I'm going to jump off the top of dorms?" The whole point of Hampshire is that all the bullshit posturing of "better" colleges like Macalester has been eliminated so you can focus on learning.

Now, I've had about enough of you talking shit about my school, curmudgeon2charm. Why don't you ask the auto and oil industries what they think of the van four students built that runs clean (and as fast as a regular car) on vegetable oil? Why don't you ask the country of Denmark why they chose a Hampshire grad (fresh out of college) to design and develop literature about AIDs for national distribution? Why don't you ask the East coast film industry why they call our film grads "The Hampshire Mafia"? Why don't you ask Ken fuckin' Burns if he thinks he went to a "lightweight school"?

Maybe you should've stuck with the cello.

power2charm: [re. Wraith2] [Ken's next project, "Hampshire was lame"]:

In reply to:

But you can't get the best education unless you can afford it.


No, you thickheaded ignoramus, you just can't get the half-assed Hampshire one.

Harvard has an endowment of $18 billion. A year at Harvard costs $40,000. Show us your math chops, pothead, and calculate how many FULL SCHOLARSHIPS Harvard could issue with the income its endowment generates if invested in Treasuries yielding an average of 4% per annum.

If Hampshire is soooo freakin' great, idiotboy, why do only a tiny fraction - a "little bitty" one, to borrow a phrase from the Yale grad occupying our White House and several windswept nations in the Middle East - of Hamphire acceptees enroll? P2c wants to know if you can say "Safety School" - as in ohmyfuckinggodevenBrandeisrejectedmenowIhavetogotoHampshire-safety school.

On a less cheery note, do you realize what an absolute no-class act posting this thread was? Did you obtain Glitterbot's explicit permission to post a thread informing us that:

a) her family can't afford to send her to private college;
b) she's too lazy to apply for the financial aid that is readily available from most respectable* private schools (*that duly leaves Hampshire out - its alums are sooooo pleased with the education they received that they've been known to return shards of glass and feces from unknown forest creatures in response to the school's fundraising mailers);
c) she daily frequents the blighted environs of the City by the Bay;
d) she is some rag doll to be dragged about by her vain, self-centered cyber pal, who incidentally is way too selfish to change HIS plans and attend a California school?

'Bot, I'm not sure what you would tire of sooner if you came East: Norman Rockwell-land in W. Massachusetts or the doofus who lured you out there. My advice, attend UC Santa Cruz and keep an eye peeled for a good upstanding Macalester boy.

Glitterbot: [ken has a mullet.]:

In reply to:

I paid 800 dollars for Mimi.


Ew. Why did it concern you to pay an extravagant amount of money for a purebred dog?

In reply to:

power2charm: b) she's too lazy to apply for the financial aid that is readily available from most respectable* private schools (*that duly leaves Hampshire out


I don't know what you're talking about. Hampshire has financial aid. they certainly offer more than bigger schools like NYU or something do. I applied for financial aid (an extremely hateful process!) I just didn't recieve very much of it.

In reply to:

c) she daily frequents the blighted environs of the City by the Bay;


I've mentioned that I live in SF before. Anyway, San Francisco is a wonderful place to live.

This is all getting sort of violent. I can see we've revealed that p2c hates Wraith2. Interesting. Here is my take on the whole thing (read closely:)

Hampshire is not particularly difficult to get into, and it's not particularly prestigious (though it is in my top colleges book) but I really like the way the school is run. I think it is pretty unique, and fosters a creative environment, and has small class sizes, and isn't run by the government- basically, it is the antithesis of my craptacular high school experience, and that's what interests me. I have friends that go there, so I think I have a pretty good idea of what it's like.

And I went to a high school that was considered extremely prestigious and was very hard to get into and it sucked. I don't care about those things.

But I realize that I probably can't afford to go there without taking our ridiculous loans, and I'm not complaining. I'll probably go to a community college, get some credits, and finish up at a four year. I can't expect my parents or myself to go into huge amounts of debt, and I don't think Hampshire (or any school) is worth the price of tuition.

As for a UC, they're not free. A UC would cost about 15,000 a year (about the same as a private would if I got a decent financial aid package.) I probably should have been practical and gone to UC Santa Cruz, but I didn't want to. I don't want to live in Santa Cruz, and I hate all the people from my school who went there, and I'm not upset about not going yet.

In conclusion, it didn't bother me at all that Wraith made this thread, even though it was a dismal failure and all that happened was a lot of collage-related jokes and Hampshire-bashing.

Wraith2: [Somebody doesn't like the word curmudgeon]: Yes, yes, yes, we all know about Harvard's endowment but you seem to have glossed over the fact that some of us don't want to shove sticks up our asses to keep that 4.0. The schools that care about the fact that I was the Vice President in a high school chapter of Habitat for Humanity that fundraised and built two houses aren't the ones with the money. Yale doesn't want to hear about how much I had to do with a student run group that chronicled the unwritten (because of segregation) history of Bloomington's West side. Stanford doesn't give two shits about how hard I worked for two years in a student run and organized jazz combo (I had to teach myself how to play jazz because there weren't any school instructors for that sort of thing). The schools that only care about 1600s and 4.0s are the ones I want nothing to do with. (By the way, are they even allowed to give Bs at Harvard anymore? I know Hampshire only graduates 67%, but I can't remember what it is at Harvard.)

In reply to:

power2complain: her family can't afford to send her to private college


In reply to:

eraserhead: I think the Republicans have done a good job brainwashing people into believing that, [if] you don't have money, you're not worthy.


They certainly have.

In reply to:

do you realize what an absolute no-class act posting this thread was?


Oh jesus. You make a bunch of finger wagging posts about how awful my school is when you clearly know nothing about it and you tell me I lack class? Quote endowment figures and your lawyer buddies all you want (hey, you're not a lawyer are you? no? that's too bad) but when was the last time you went on college visits? Which professors have you talked to? Which students have you talked to? Which alumnists have you talked to? Have you spent the last year extensively researching colleges and trying to get beyond all the bullshit everyone's throwing at you trying to get you to go to their school? Of course you haven't. You've been sitting in your church infested hole in Connecticut pretending you never fucked up at cello. Maybe I don't have class, but I'm Lord Byron next to you, countryboy.

Since you love to act like an expert, maybe you should consider finally going to grad school. I recommend studying manners.

power2charm: [Wraith2, you are on suspension from making threads]:

In reply to:

I don't think Hampshire (or any school) is worth the price of tuition.


And for this reason, TW rejects wraith2's plea on your behalf. If you want the Hampshire Experience badly enough, you should be willing to shoulder some of the burden (and impose it on the fam). Otherwise, it's not that important to you, and others should not bear any imposition.

Incidentally, I have fond memories of SF - I was only making reference to the location of your current school, which wraith described as "dangerous".

Let's end this sorry thread in agreement: It is outrageously DECADENT to spend $800 on a purebred when millions of mixed breeds are PUT DOWN every year....or maybe Sweden doesn't allow mixed breeds, eh, Eraserhead?

on edit: Wraith, I was replying to the 'bot while you posted your little rant. You've said nothing worthy of response (hardly a first), but I can see that you've become upset by our discussion, to which I must reply with all my heart: Cha-Ching!

Glitterbot:

In reply to:

If you want the Hampshire Experience badly enough, you should be willing to shoulder some of the burden (and impose it on the fam).


Who said I wasn't willing to shoulder some of the burden? Boy, you really make a lot of assumptions about me and my unwillingness to do anything. At least you could apologize for calling me lazy.

What I was trying to say is, I don't think any education is worth being $100,000 in debt (which I would be, if I went to Hampshire for four years....you know, that's 1/9 of a three-bedroom house in a moderately nice neighborhood San Francisco) Obviously I am willing to shoulder some of the burden, and so is my family, but I have to be practical about it.

In reply to:

Otherwise, it's not that important to you, and others should not bear any imposition.


You know, I don't actually expect members of TW to pay for it. Duh.

eraserhead: [hypocrisy]:

In reply to:

Ew. Why did it concern you to pay an extravagant amount of money for a purebred dog?


How much money have you spent on drugs over the years? I'm not being sarcastic or anything, I'm just asking a question, like you just asked me a question. Because if you've spent 800 dollars on drugs (including alochol) over the years, I think asking why I spent 800 dollars on a dog is weird, and stupid. I haven't spent a dime on drugs in my life, so I don't think I was wasting my money when I paid 800 dollars for Mimi. There are worse things to spend your money on.

If you have the money, and you can choose between getting a dachshund from one of the finest dachshund families in your part of the world, or getting a mixed breed, what would you choose? I didn't look for the finest possible dog though. My situation was like this:
I knew I wanted a long-haired dachshund. I did a search on Google and found a site called taxklubben ("the dachshund club") and there I found some names. I called a few people, but their puppies had already been sold. One of the last people on my list of names (that I'd found on the internet) was this woman named Elisabeth, and so I called her and it turned out she's a well-known breeder with lots of famous dachshunds. So I went there, and everything was just perfect, I met Mimi's mom, Erica, who was pregnant with Mimi (and 7 other puppies) at the time. I didn't know how much it would cost me. Eventually, Mimi was born, I saw her and held her and there was no turning back at that point. So I paid the 800 dollars and it was the best thing I've ever done in my life. I don't see what the problem is.

In reply to:

It is outrageously DECADENT to spend $800 on a purebred when millions of mixed breeds are PUT DOWN every year


You, mister, are the worst hypocrite ever. Are you a vegetarian? If not, don't pretend like you care about mixed breeds when you're sitting there with a dog-sandwich in your right hand. I've been a vegetarian since 1995. By being a vegetarian for almost 10 years, I have saved MANY animal lives. And, also, by not smoking pot, or wasting my money on any drug, I've saved a lot of money over the years, money I decided to use on a dog. I didn't look for a "purebred" (I don't even know what that is), I was just lucky to get Mimi. I had no idea how much a dog would cost. Now that I have her, I think it's fun to know that both her parents, Erica and Ramazotti, are champions.

Glitterbot: [jesus wouldn't have spent $800 on a dog]: The only drugs I ever have actually purchased are mushrooms, which cost $20 (what a rip!) Other than that, I've never bought drugs in my life. Alcohol...I've probably spent about $60. But i've probably wasted some money buying scones or something while high, so I will throw in an extra twenty for that, bringing my grand drug total up to $100.

I have rescued quite a few dogs in my life. Whenever my mother sees a stray, she stops the car and we hunt it down. It usually doesn't work, but a few times it has in the past, and we've returned the dog to it's owner, found a home, or kept it. One of the dogs I have now we have because he would have been put down if we left him at the animal shelter.

In reply to:

If you have the money, and you can choose between getting a dachshund from one of the finest dachshund families in your part of the world, or getting a mixed breed, what would you choose?


Do they have animal shelters in Sweden? They're very depressing. I almost cry every time I'm there- there's all these dogs, and they're in cages, and they're mournful looking, and a lot of them are going to be killed because there are too many. I would never buy a purebred dog, the very concept of it is bizarre to me- why would you want one? You can get a much cheaper dog who is going to be killed instead who is less likely to have health problems from in-breeding anyway. It's not like it's your dog is actually better in any way from my dog, is it? It's like thinking members of royalty are better than regular people because they're "pure."

I mean, finest families? It's a dog.

And dog shows? Sick and wrong.

In reply to:

If not, don't pretend like you care about mixed breeds when you're sitting there with a dog-sandwich in your right hand.


That was funny.

But, aside from all that, I've been thinking about how p2c likes to crush all forms of idealism and hope. It's like his thing. I think he hates us (well, not me so much, but Wraith2 and eraserhead) for having all these morals. Maybe he was once like you guys, maybe back in the early 80s? What were you like as a younger man, p2c? Did you believe in anything?

eraserhead: [Jesus wanted me to have Mimi]:

In reply to:

One of the dogs I have now we have because he would have been put down if we left him at the animal shelter.


It's great that you do what you do. Obviously, we don't have as many animal shelters here as you have in America. I don't think we have that many homeless dogs here. It has to do with the way the Swedish society is built. Gandhi once said that "The measure of a society can be how well its people treat its animals." I think that's true. Again, not to brag or anything (because there are many things I hate about Sweden), but I think we take good care of our animals and I think Swedish pets generally live very good lives. They get more food and more love than most people on the planet.

In reply to:

I would never buy a purebred dog, the very concept of it is bizarre to me- why would you want one?


Like I said, I got a purebred dog because God (or chance) wanted it that way. I had no ambition to get a purebred dog. I just had this list of names of dog breeders and was just interested in finding a long-haired dachshund. It was more a case of Mimi choosing me than me choosing her. I don't have anything against mixed breeds, what happend just happend. I didn't have a plan, I just put my trust in Jesus to lead me to the dog that was meant for me.

In reply to:

I mean, finest families? It's a dog


When I said "finest families" I was talking about the fact that her mom, and her dad, and her grandmother and grandfather (on both sides) are all champions, they've all won a lot of shows, in Sweden, in Finland, I think even in Switzerland (probably misspelled). This is not to say they are better than other dogs, it's just saying they are...I don't know...a fine family?

You say, "it's a dog" and I disagree. Firstly, I don't say "it" -- I say "she" (or "he"). I know this isn't a common belief to have, but I believe dogs are humans, in the sense that they're equal to humans. I don't see humans as superior to dogs. I mean, Mimi is smarter than my dad.
I think to look down on them is disrespectful. I show Mimi the greatest respect because I see her as my equal. I think her soul is very old.
And I also I think we -- the world, society -- have never been so far off in terms of how we treat animals as we are today. If you go back to, say, ancient Egypt, a lot of animals, like cats, were considered sacred. The cats were sacred to the Egyptians. They worshipped the cats. I think we should still do that. I don't know why we stopped. If a house was on fire, the first thing the Egyptians saved was the cat. The cats were their number one priority. If someone hurt or, God forbid, killed a cat, there was capital punishment for that someone. Death awaited him. That's how sacred the cats were back then. And you have the holy cows in India. I think that's not only cool but right. It's the way it should be. I think there was an understanding of animals that died when industrialism came. When industrialism came, a lot of things, good things, died.

In reply to:

And dog shows? Sick and wrong


Says Mushroom-girl. Mushrooms are sick and wrong! Don't you know that? Dog shows are silly, but, as long as Mimi's parents win first price, I kind of like these shows. I haven't ever been to one, because I don't really believe in competition, but I thought it was cool when I searched Google for their names, Mimi's parents' names, and all these show results and pictures came up. And I also found this picture of Mimi's half-sister Truls.

T.J. Newton: [No subject at all]:

In reply to:

Mushrooms are sick and wrong! Don't you know that?


No, not really. In a moment you will tell me that LSD is sick and wrong, too...

In reply to:

Dog shows are silly, but, as long as Mimi's parents win first price, I kind of like these shows. I haven't ever been to one, because I don't really believe in competition


Yes, we know. You consider it fascist and destructive

twister: [SATAN!!!!!] I recently came to the conclusion that power2charm is, in fact, the devil. Everything - and by golly, do I mean everything - that he argues is wrong, yet he does so with so much intelligence, charm, humour... he's several steps past the role of devil's advocate, and is quite simply the devil himself.

It explains an awful lot when you think about it.

Marquis: [Good Christ, what happened?]:

Jesus, I step out for a few hours to get ragingly drunk at some kid's graduation party and try to coerce his drunken and divorced mother into a little somethin' somethin', and now I come back to a thread where *TJ Newton* is the voice of reason! Shocking.

I have little to add on the college front; as I said before, I really don't know anything about colleges. But I do think it is largely false that the education you receive at, say, Columbia, will be significantly better than at a higher-end state school. I think the most important aspect of any college is the sort of people and environment you're in. I feel like I learned relatively little in my classes (which is mostly my fault, granted), but that 4 years of exposure to really smart people and living in Manhattan was life changing.

In reply to:

Why don't you ask the auto and oil industries what they think of the van four students built that runs clean (and as fast as a regular car) on vegetable oil?


They are probably not happy. Incidentally, they also did this at UC Berkeley.

Paying for purebred dogs is nearly unforgivable. I hate going to the pound worse than anything, because I want to take them all home.

eraserhead: [Good Christ indeed]:

In reply to:

Paying for purebred dogs is nearly unforgivable.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you eat animals?
As far as I know, Marquis, Glitterbot and p2c all eat animals. Yet they have the nerve to criticize me, the vegetarian, for not caring about homeless dogs. Man, I'm used to getting comments like, "but what about the poor plants?! You're killing innocent plants!!" but this is, if possible, even sillier. If you care so much about these dogs, then, please, explain to me why you eat them.

Tristan: [Send me a twenty an they're in the mail.]:

In reply to:

The only drugs I ever have actually purchased are mushrooms, which cost $20


Why would anyone pay for mushrooms when you can go to any cow pasture at sunrise and pick your own for free? Unless, of course, you're afraid of getting cow shit on your fingers.

Marquis: [You're Reaching]: I don't eat dogs.

If you don't see the difference between animals raised as food and animals abandoned and put to death to be incinerated in mass cremations after being starved and abused for the majority of their short lives, then you are obtuse.

Now maybe it is different in Sweden, maybe you guys don't have dog pounds. But over here we do. To me, its like people who want to adopt, but only a white kid. Not that I want to compare minorities to stray dogs, but both are as deserving of living in a good home as their more desirable counterparts.

edit: Tristan, lets talk deal here. I'm 100% serious.

strangeDivine: [I like Mimi too]: eraserhead, I think what you say about an understanding of animals being lost in the industrial age is caused by the fact that people don't have to be "hands-on" anymore. When you had to kill, defeather, and cook the chicken yourself, you would naturally have a deeper understanding of what the human relationship with animals is all about. When you can just pick up meat nicely wrapped in plastic at a grocery store, it's easier to put the source of that meat out of your mind.

The main problem with cats and dogs in the US is overpopulation. Many people do not take the necessary precautions to ensure that their pets aren't producing litter after litter. As a result, there is a problem with strays in cities and possibly even a bigger problem for the environment in rural areas. These types of cats and dogs have few natural predators in North America to keep their populations in check. Cats can be quite devastating to populations of small animals in rural areas. We have a big problem with nutria, a gigantic rodent native to South America, here in Louisiana. These rodents were brought in a very long time ago to boost the fur industry. Now, without a natural balance from nature, their populations have skyrocketed.

The main species that is not kept in check by predators is of course humans. I'll admit, I'm a bit of a Malthusian. But I doubt that we will be able to keep reproducing at these rates indefinitely. I think in a few decades the West will be facing the problems that China is facing. The human analogy to the pure breed dog question is thus: is it really moral to keep having children when there are plenty of children in the world that you could adopt? Is the virus called your DNA that important? Just some food for thought since I don't know anything about colleges. I'll have to start thinking about it soon I suppose.

Marquis: [Hell Hath No Fury Like p2c after the Mavs lose]: I think maybe twister is on to something.

Reminds me of this kid I knew in college who graduated a year early and was valedictorian of the class ahead of us, then went on to do a Rhodes scholarship at Oxford in Math. All in all, a really fucking smart guy. But pure evil. He had me convinced for at least an hour that there was no such thing as a 'deadbeat dad' and all of the men who abandoned their children were somehow justified in doing so.

Tristan: [Go pick 'em yourself.]:

In reply to:

edit: Tristan, lets talk deal here. I'm 100% serious.



No thanks! My mushroom days are in the distant past.
But I did have something for you when you were on your whirl wind tour of meeting TWer's. Too bad you didn't think I was worthy of a visit.

eraserhead: [TJ, I liked you better when you sucked up to me]:

In reply to:

[Marquis] If you don't see the difference between animals raised as food and animals abandoned and put to death to be incinerated in mass cremations after being starved and abused for the majority of their short lives, then you are obtuse.


The animals you eat have gone through hell before they ended up on your plate. That's a fact. Just these last few years, several European TV teams have documented the lives of these animals raised as food with hidden cameras and what they've documented is Auschwitz. They break their legs, they hit them, they stick their fingers in the cows' eyes, they give them electric shocks, you name it. Life in the slaughterhouse isn't that good after all. I think these cows would love to change place with the abandoned dogs.

In reply to:

Now maybe it is different in Sweden, maybe you guys don't have dog pounds. But over here we do. To me, its like people who want to adopt, but only a white kid. Not that I want to compare minorities to stray dogs, but both are as deserving of living in a good home as their more desirable counterparts.


Like I said, we don't really have them here. We probably have a couple, but I have never seen one myself. But I think your reasoning is a little absurd, because when you choose your wife, or girlfriend, or boyfriend, or whatever you're into, you don't choose the ugliest, smelliest person out there, do you? But you should! -- according to your own philosophy. Because going for the nice, good-looking girl is like wanting to adopt, but only a white kid. Right?

I think there are moments, situations when even the most Christian of us, even Marquis, is allowed to be a little selfish. If you want to date a girl who smells good, go ahead, Jesus forgives you. If I want to buy a purebred, Jesus forgives me. And, like I said, you get purebred dogs everywhere here in Sweden, but you'll have to look long and hard to find an abandoned dog.

In reply to:

[strangeDivine] When you had to kill, defeather, and cook the chicken yourself, you would naturally have a deeper understanding of what the human relationship with animals is all about. When you can just pick up meat nicely wrapped in plastic at a grocery store, it's easier to put the source of that meat out of your mind.


Exactly. Right on. I think it's fascinating that many of these ancient cultures, sure, they killed animals, but they were almost sorry about it, they showed the animals the deepest respect. We're lightyears from that sort of respect today.

In reply to:

is it really moral to keep having children when there are plenty of children in the world that you could adopt?


I think it is moral, because I think having a child must be, for many, what life is about, you know? It's something so big that it is not easy to put into words what it is exactly. It's something magical. I mean, I would presume it is. I don't have kids. I'm a kid myself. So, no, to have a child can never be wrong. The over-population is partly due to religious brainwashing. There are people responsible for the over-population. It's not my fault and therefore, I should be allowed, I mean, if I was a woman, I should be allowed to give birth to a kid. The question is if catholics, or the catholics who support the Pope's opinion on the subject, should be allowed to have children, since they're part of the over-population problem.

T.J. Newton: [I wish I knew what happened]:

In reply to:

[Marquis] Jesus, I step out for a few hours to get ragingly drunk at some kid's graduation party and try to coerce his drunken and divorced mother into a little somethin' somethin', and now I come back to a thread where *TJ Newton* is the voice of reason!


I'm not sure I understand you, Matt.

In reply to:

[Tristan] Why would anyone pay for mushrooms when you can go to any cow pasture at sunrise and pick your own for free? Unless, of course, you're afraid of getting cow shit on your fingers.


That's true, although I paid for mushrooms as well. I had to give only 1 dolar for my pack of mushrooms And there were 30 mushrooms in the envelope. So now I'm wondering if Glitterbout bought 600 mushrooms or maybe she had her pants pulled down over the price?

eraserhead:

1) You claim to be a veggie, but tell me something - do you refuse to eat meat because of your religious beliefs? Or maybe you pity all those "poor" animals that get killed? If so, I've got a question. Didn't God say in the Bible that animals he created can be eaten by men? And they were basically created for the humanity?
2) when did I actually suck up to you? [/quote]

StrangeDrugs: My pound-puppy smelled like roses thanyouverymuch.

power2charm: [Fraternity and Equality: On sale for $800!]: You say, "it's a dog" and I disagree. Firstly, I don't say "it" -- I say "she" (or "he"). I know this isn't a common belief to have, but I believe dogs are humans, in the sense that they're equal to humans. I don't see humans as superior to dogs. I mean, Mimi is smarter than my dad.
I think to look down on them is disrespectful. I show Mimi the greatest respect because I see her as my equal. I think her soul is very old. ~Eraserhead, 5/31/03


Since dogs are above other animals and on the level of humans, then it is indeed not hypocrisy for those of us eating chicken, fish, lamb, pork and beef (dumb animals all, and not elevated in e-head's grand philosophy of the moment to our spiritual and intellectual peers) to chew away while lambasting the Swede for partaking in an industry that is the equivalent of human slavery.

Mimi didn't choose you - your equal was purchased, her parents were bred to produce her. Humans who regard your equal as chattel make a profit by their actions. And you lined their pockets, Eraserhead.

Who is the hypocrite, and who is the bystander pointing it out while munching a bbq samich? I ask you, TW.

By the way, don't let Eraserhead pull "facts" out of his ass, like that there are no shelters in Sweden. That's a load of DOGSHIT



Tippi, 2000-2003.
Put down because she wasn't fit
for the slave trade Eraserhead supports

Rather than words comes the thought of high windows


 
Entire thread
Subject  Posted byPosted on
*Help Glitterbot Get to College!!! (05/03)  Auntie Prism02/25/11 04:37 PM
.*Re: Help Glitterbot Get to College!!! (05/03)  Remade/Remodeled03/02/11 07:01 PM
.*Paid off my student loans too  Wraith202/27/11 01:21 PM
.*Who slapped John?  Auntie Prism03/01/11 02:37 PM
.*Re: Who slapped John?  strangeDivine07/28/12 00:22 AM
.*ghosts always signify a deeper, darker history  Auntie Prism01/08/13 07:34 PM
.*"And the dead will outnumber the living..."  strangeDivine01/08/13 09:29 PM
.*The Passagenwerk  Auntie Prism01/09/13 09:56 AM
.*//////////////////sad  strangeDivine01/11/13 07:42 PM
.*The Library of Aleczandah  Auntie Prism01/12/13 08:21 AM
.*homespun IT theories  Auntie Prism01/12/13 08:31 AM
.*I'm here because I have a final on Monday  WildWind12/15/12 04:13 PM
.*King Cobra vs. Queen Bee  Wraith203/02/11 10:48 AM
.*Grim fandango   Auntie Prism03/02/11 12:32 PM
.*All coming back to me now  Dara03/05/11 02:37 AM
.*Re: All coming back to me now  Dara03/05/11 02:39 AM
.*Not *that* kind of juju bag, R/R  Auntie Prism03/05/11 10:11 AM
.*Boredom distractions  Dara03/06/11 01:15 AM
.*Re: Boredom distractions  Glitterbot07/07/11 04:38 AM
.*Pass the douche, Part 2  power2charm07/09/11 00:10 AM
.*Re: Not *that* kind of juju bag, R/R  ziggfriedModerator03/05/11 06:54 PM
.*Push my buttons, beibe!  KAdministrator03/01/11 02:50 PM
.*I did not read all of the old thread, btw.  KAdministrator02/26/11 11:30 AM
.*Re: I did not read all of the old thread, btw.  Quills02/26/11 05:43 PM
.*THBDB & your very existence is somewhat unrefined  KAdministrator02/27/11 07:55 AM
.*Don't twist my words please  Quills02/28/11 06:25 AM
.*Re: Don't twist my words please  KAdministrator03/01/11 02:13 PM
.*Re: Don't twist my words please  ziggfriedModerator02/28/11 06:34 AM
.*Re: Don't twist my words please  Quills02/28/11 09:17 AM
.*Re: Don't twist my words please  ziggfriedModerator02/28/11 05:21 PM
.*WOO-HMMM  schizophrenic03/01/11 00:56 AM
.*Re: WOO-HMMM  Quills03/01/11 06:22 AM
.*Re: THBDB & your very existence is somewhat unrefined  ghostlove02/27/11 09:39 AM
.*Y'can do anything but lay off my blue suede shoes  Auntie Prism02/25/11 04:42 PM
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