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eraserhead
(stardust savant)
01/21/04 10:06 AM
here's my theory [re: Dara]  

In reply to:

Back in the days when I was an Iggy fan and hung around his Usenet newsgroup, it always struck me how incredibly homogenous it was. That makes it pretty easy to please.


Iggy's fanbase is not that homogenous, but, yeah, probably more so than Bowie's. But if you look closer, there are, you know, different fractions. There's been a hot debate on various boards on whether or not Iggy's a whore now for having recorded with Sum 41. The fanbase is equally divided into two camps. 50% say they've lost respect for him, while the rest say the song is great and that's all that matters. There's also a lot of hardcore fans that hate the last touring band he had, before the Stooges reunited. So they are another camp. There's also Iggy fans who can stand Bowie and those who can't. But, yeah, I'm not denying that for me to be as happy as a pig in shit, as you so elegantly put it, Iggy just has to, well, go on stage, basically. Topless or not, doesn't really matter. Drop his pants, doesn't really matter either. But jump around, pull a few faces, shout the songs, that's basically all I want, and then I'm a happy pig. And I'm not ashamed to admit it.
As Bowie put it, in the same interview (from July 2002): "I saw him only from the back as I was playing piano for him [...] I couldn't get over his energy and his commitment to savage realism."
Same here. The simplicity, the energy and the savage realism is what I love.


In reply to:

I presume that's what Bowie meant by his Iggy comment. Iggy is now a stage weirdo, the living stereotype of what a "wild man of rock" should be in the eyes of the mainstream. He couldn't play the role more perfectly if he had gotten Steven Spielberg in to write the script.

By contrast, there's Johnny Lydon (Rotten). He's getting boos from the usual "Sellout!" brigade of dullards for going on crappy reality TV programme "I'm A Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here" right now. Presumably they just want him to be Johnny Rotten '77 for the rest of his life.


So when Iggy goes mainstream, he's uninteresting, or whatever term you prefer, but when Jonny Rotten goes mainstream, you're applauding him? I don't see the difference, expect that it took Jonny Rotten 30 years to go mainstream. Iggy went mainstream a long time ago. The only thing that has changed is your percecption or appreciation of it, because he's been the "wild man of rock" since day one, as far as I'm concerned. It's just that now more people are appreciting what he's doing, and giving him credit for it, and that's why people like you and EJ walk out of him. It was okay to support him when nobody else did, except for Bowie, but now he's getting too big already. No offense, I'm just speculating. :)

I agree that the transformation Bowie went though around '82-'83 was probably the most surprising move of his career. Most Bowie experts say it was a conscious descision though, it was a strategy plan, to make up for all the bad contracts he'd been under. It was Bowie's way of earning back all the money he'd lost while experimenting in the 70s. Then when that mission was accomplished and he was a rich man, he went back to creating art in the late 80s. So the 80s was just an exception. You make it sound like it was Bowie getting old and wise, not wanting to be hip and happening, or caring about experimenting anymore. I don't think it was that he "matured", I just think he wanted to finance another decade of art experiments (the 90s). Throughout the 90s he was busy being '70s Bowie' again. How we should interpret these last few years (2000-2003), I'm not completely sure. Maybe Claude's right and it's again money that is dictating his descisions. At least I find that a more likely reason for what he's doing now than the reason you've put forward -- that Bowie has matured, he has "found himself" and have realized that he doesn't want to be a weirdo anymore, he just wants to be a family kind of guy, with no edge and no danger, he just wants to entertain American housewives by playing "Rebel Rebel" and "China Girl" over and over again, because that's the kind of guy he really is. Well, I don't buy it.

But, again, I'm not saying these shows he's giving nowadays, are terrible or even bad. I'm sure you, Dara, and EJ, are enjoying them, and I probably would enjoy them a bit as well, I'm just saying there's not a lot of "otherness" or vision or darkness in these shows. And "otherness", vision, and darkness, that's what Bowie's been about throughout his career, except for the periods where he felt he needed to make some money to help finance further artistic investigations.





"I speak what yah weak mind lacks" -Missy Elliott

Edited by eraserhead on 01/21/04 10:12 AM (server time).




 
Entire thread
Subject  Posted byPosted on
*Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  eraserhead01/19/04 03:39 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  pablopicasso04/29/04 10:18 AM
.*Rock on and on and on ad infinitum  diamondogz7404/29/04 03:09 PM
.*Re: Rock on and on and on ad infinitum  prrrrr04/30/04 11:15 AM
.*Re: Rock on and on and on ad infinitum  diamondogz7405/01/04 07:11 AM
.*Re: Rock on and on and on ad infinitum  pablopicasso05/01/04 07:23 AM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  prrrrr04/29/04 02:39 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  jabow04/29/04 02:03 PM
.*Is NoControl defying sanity with A Reality Tour?  EJSundayModerator04/29/04 10:34 AM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  soho_beatnik02/06/04 03:59 AM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  thekillingmoon02/05/04 04:38 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  NoControl01/26/04 04:29 AM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  dice01/27/04 07:31 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality T  globule201/28/04 01:21 AM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality T  NoControl01/28/04 01:23 AM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality T  globule201/28/04 01:28 AM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality T  NoControl01/28/04 01:46 AM
.*More Statistics  EJSundayModerator01/28/04 08:13 AM
.*Re: More Statistics  globule201/28/04 09:44 AM
.*Re: More Statistics  bowiefanpeter01/28/04 04:53 PM
.*Re: More Ignorance  NoControl01/28/04 08:27 PM
.*Re: More Ignorance  globule201/28/04 10:51 PM
.*Re: Ignorance is a funny thing  NoControl01/29/04 04:35 AM
.*Re: More Statistics  jabow01/28/04 05:26 PM
.*Re: More Statistics  globule201/28/04 06:49 PM
.*Re: More Statistics  bowiefanpeter01/30/04 09:06 PM
.*Re: More Statistics  NoControl01/30/04 09:41 PM
.*Re: More Statistics  th0mas01/29/04 08:02 AM
.*Re: More Statistics  Dara01/29/04 12:05 PM
.*Re: More Statistics  dice01/29/04 01:53 PM
.*Set List Categories  EJSundayModerator01/30/04 06:22 AM
.*More Imaginary Statistics  EJSundayModerator01/28/04 11:19 AM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality T  BillHague01/28/04 02:27 AM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  Nature_Boy01/21/04 05:11 AM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  Claude01/20/04 04:17 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  eraserhead01/20/04 06:21 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  Claude01/21/04 03:45 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  Emil01/21/04 03:54 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  Dara01/22/04 06:27 AM
.*Defy My Money  poorsoul01/22/04 05:52 PM
.*Re: Defy My Money  Dara01/23/04 07:17 AM
.*More Money  poorsoul01/29/04 11:52 PM
.*Re: Defy My Money  poorsoul01/29/04 11:42 PM
.*Painting yourself into a corner  eraserhead01/23/04 07:52 AM
.*Re: Painting yourself into a corner  SoulLoveChild01/23/04 07:48 PM
.*Re: Painting yourself into a corner  bowiefanpeter01/23/04 07:59 PM
.*Re: Painting yourself into a corner  pablopicasso01/23/04 08:48 PM
.*Re: Painting yourself into a corner  bowiefanpeter01/23/04 09:04 PM
.*Re: Painting yourself into a corner  Dara01/27/04 06:29 AM
.*Re: Painting yourself into a corner  christiancode01/29/04 08:22 PM
.*Hits schmits  Dara01/30/04 06:52 AM
.*Re: Hits schmits  bowiefanpeter01/30/04 09:43 PM
.*Re: Hits schmits  NoControl01/30/04 09:28 PM
.*Re: Hits schmits  Dara02/05/04 06:51 AM
.*Re: Hits schmits  NoControl02/05/04 07:19 AM
.*Re: Hits schmits  dice02/05/04 01:31 PM
.*Bits Fits  poorsoul02/06/04 00:02 AM
.*Re: Is this a joke?  NoControl02/06/04 02:07 AM
.*Re: Bits Fits  globule202/06/04 01:09 AM
.*Gits  poorsoul02/06/04 11:44 PM
.*Re: Hits schmits  zigbot02/05/04 02:40 PM
.*Re: Hits schmits  NoControl02/05/04 06:40 PM
.*Re: Hits schmits  Dara02/06/04 06:24 AM
.*Re: Hits schmits  NoControl02/06/04 06:58 AM
.*Re: Hits schmits  Dara02/06/04 03:38 PM
.*Re: Hits schmits  jabow02/06/04 02:58 PM
.*Re: Hits schmits  NoControl02/06/04 08:08 PM
.*Re: Hits schmits  dice02/06/04 01:45 PM
.*Get real paid  White Prism02/06/04 03:30 PM
.*Re: Get real paid  dice02/06/04 07:03 PM
.*A Hit Is Not Simply A Song You Think Is One  EJSundayModerator02/07/04 06:39 AM
.*Re: Oh Really?  NoControl02/07/04 07:46 AM
.*Lies, Damned Lies  poorsoul02/07/04 11:22 PM
.*what *is* he?  JonnyManic02/07/04 06:09 PM
.*Re: To my best friend...  NoControl02/08/04 08:03 PM
.*Re: To my best friend...  CAwesome02/08/04 08:18 PM
.*Re: Duh!  NoControl02/08/04 08:22 PM
.*Look  EJSundayModerator02/09/04 03:47 AM
.*Re: Zzzzzzzz....  NoControl02/09/04 04:03 AM
.*you simply never get it right  EJSundayModerator02/09/04 04:13 AM
.*Re: YOU simply never get it right  NoControl02/09/04 04:25 AM
.*Why don't you answer my posts?  EJSundayModerator02/09/04 06:52 AM
.*Re: Why don't you answer my posts?  NoControl02/09/04 07:06 AM
.*Re: Why don't you answer my posts?  EJSundayModerator02/09/04 07:14 AM
.*Re: Because I don't want to repeat myself  NoControl02/09/04 09:37 AM
.*Re: Because I don't want to repeat myself  Emil02/10/04 04:06 AM
.*Re: Because I don't want to repeat myself  NoControl02/10/04 06:07 AM
.*More Lunacy From The TWer Without Any Clue  EJSundayModerator02/10/04 06:40 AM
.*Re: More Lunacy From The TWer Without Any Clue  NoControl02/10/04 07:06 AM
.*Re: More Lunacy From The TWer Without Any Clue  EJSundayModerator02/10/04 07:20 AM
.*Re: Out of your depth, completely  NoControl02/10/04 07:46 AM
.*Too Narrow Minded  EJSundayModerator02/10/04 08:24 AM
.*Re: Only hearing what you want to hear..  NoControl02/10/04 05:30 PM
.*I Admit That I Wasted Time And Space Here  EJSundayModerator02/10/04 05:43 PM
.*Re: I Admit That I Wasted Time And Space Here  NoControl02/10/04 05:46 PM
.*Re: I Admit That I Wasted Time And Space Here  dice02/10/04 07:37 PM
.*Bloated  poorsoul02/10/04 11:53 PM
.*Semantics  Dara02/11/04 04:41 AM
.*Re: Semantics  globule202/11/04 09:30 AM
.*Re: Semantics  Dara02/11/04 02:04 PM
.*Re: Completely wrong  NoControl02/11/04 06:37 PM
.*Uair eile leis an ri amadan  Dara02/12/04 04:46 AM
.*Re: Uair eile leis an ri amadan  dice02/12/04 01:56 PM
.*Re: Uair eile leis an ri amadan  diamondogz7402/12/04 02:45 PM
.*SOUND + VISION 2  christiancode02/13/04 08:14 AM
.*Re: SOUND + VISION 2  bowiefanpeter02/14/04 05:00 AM
.*Re: Uair eile leis an ri amadan  NoControl02/12/04 05:05 AM
.*Re: Uair eile leis an ri amadan  Dara02/12/04 07:46 AM
.*Re: Uair eile leis an ri amadan  NoControl02/12/04 08:18 AM
.*Re: Semantics  NoControl02/11/04 06:41 AM
.*Re: Semantics  pablopicasso02/11/04 06:45 PM
.*Re: Semantics  NoControl02/11/04 06:51 PM
.*Re: Semantics  pablopicasso02/11/04 07:06 PM
.*Re: Semantics  NoControl02/11/04 07:24 PM
.*Re: Semantics  CAwesome02/11/04 08:31 PM
.*Defining obscure hits and greatest hits tours  pablopicasso02/11/04 07:54 PM
.*Re: Defining obscure hits and greatest hits tours  NoControl02/11/04 08:17 PM
.*Re: Defining obscure hits and greatest hits tours  pablopicasso02/12/04 02:45 AM
.*Re: Defining obscure hits and greatest hits tours  NoControl02/12/04 03:53 AM
.*Re: Defining obscure hits and greatest hits tours  dice02/11/04 08:33 PM
.*Re: Bloated  bowiefanpeter02/11/04 00:31 AM
.*Re: I Admit That I Wasted Time And Space Here  BillHague02/10/04 08:38 PM
.*Re: I Admit That I Wasted Time And Space Here  dice02/11/04 08:36 PM
.*Re: I Admit That I Wasted Time And Space Here  NoControl02/10/04 09:33 PM
.*Re: I Admit That I Wasted Time And Space Here  pablopicasso02/10/04 06:04 PM
.*Re: I Admit That I Wasted Time And Space Here  diamondogz7402/12/04 08:49 AM
.*Boys Keep Arguing  EJSundayModerator02/10/04 06:12 PM
.*Re: Because I don't want to repeat myself  dice02/09/04 02:10 PM
.*Re: Why don't you answer my posts?  bowiefanpeter02/09/04 07:24 AM
.*Re: Why don't you answer my posts?  NoControl02/09/04 09:38 AM
.*Re: Why don't you answer my posts?  EJSundayModerator02/09/04 11:36 AM
.*Are You Answering My Post?  EJSundayModerator02/09/04 08:49 AM
.*Re: what *is* he?  jabow02/07/04 11:00 PM
.*Re: Probably not, unless...  NoControl02/08/04 08:12 PM
.*Re: Oh Really?  dice02/07/04 02:41 PM
.*Hits Schmitz  pablopicasso02/07/04 02:52 PM
.*Re: Hits Schmitz  diamondogz7402/09/04 08:07 AM
.*In The Next World  poorsoul02/07/04 00:10 AM
.*Re: Hits schmits  CAwesome02/05/04 08:40 PM
.*Why? Why?  poorsoul02/05/04 11:01 PM
.*Re: Why? Why?  CAwesome02/06/04 03:44 PM
.*Re: Why? Why?  poorsoul02/06/04 11:57 PM
.*Boring for who?  pablopicasso02/06/04 03:40 AM
.*Mediocrity For All  poorsoul02/06/04 11:53 PM
.*Re: Hits schmits  dice02/05/04 08:13 PM
.*Can't Hit This  poorsoul02/01/04 01:14 AM
.*Re: Painting yourself into a corner  NoControl01/30/04 00:03 AM
.*Putting Out Fire With Gasoline  EJSundayModerator01/27/04 06:37 AM
.*Re: Painting yourself into a corner  Dara01/23/04 09:46 AM
.*Re: Painting yourself into a corner  dice01/23/04 08:00 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  diamondogz7401/22/04 08:01 AM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  Claude01/21/04 04:19 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  pablopicasso01/21/04 04:00 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality T  Emil01/22/04 04:06 AM
.*knock it off  Emil01/21/04 05:19 PM
.*Sound revisionism  Dara01/20/04 06:45 AM
.*Re: Sound revisionism  SysiyoModerator01/20/04 03:20 PM
.*too bad he didn't do it in Helsinki then  Emil01/21/04 09:24 AM
.*Not A Chart Show  EJSundayModerator01/20/04 07:49 AM
.*Re: Not A Chart Show  gus_01/20/04 09:29 AM
.*Re: Not A Chart Show  gus_01/20/04 09:50 AM
.*Re: Not A Chart Show  eraserhead01/20/04 09:49 AM
.*Minstrel In The Gallery  EJSundayModerator01/20/04 10:54 AM
.*Not Defying  Si_rocks01/20/04 09:54 AM
.*Re: Sound revisionism  eraserhead01/20/04 07:18 AM
.*Re: Sound revisionism  Dara01/21/04 05:59 AM
..here's my theory  eraserhead01/21/04 10:06 AM
.*I Am Too Old For Retro  EJSundayModerator01/21/04 11:05 AM
.*Re: I Am Too Old For Retro  Schenk01/21/04 12:36 PM
.*Two In One - But Still There Are Differences  EJSundayModerator01/22/04 05:41 AM
.*You guys are so old!  eraserhead01/21/04 12:14 PM
.*Re: You guys are so old!  Dara01/21/04 01:28 PM
.*Re: here's my theory  Dara01/21/04 10:26 AM
.*Standards And Changes  EJSundayModerator01/21/04 07:00 AM
.*Re: Standards And Changes  Si_rocks01/21/04 08:39 AM
.*Miffled  poorsoul01/22/04 00:18 AM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  SysiyoModerator01/20/04 04:12 AM
.*Good post Sysiyo  eraserhead01/20/04 06:17 AM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  CAwesome01/19/04 08:59 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  dice01/20/04 01:32 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality T  SoulLoveChild01/20/04 06:22 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality T  dice01/20/04 07:20 PM
.*dice didn't defy expectations either  SoulLoveChild01/21/04 01:47 AM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality T  jabow01/20/04 07:27 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality T  pablopicasso01/20/04 06:58 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  tv eye01/19/04 11:25 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  bowiefanpeter01/19/04 09:22 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality T  dukewhite01/19/04 08:19 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  dice01/19/04 08:12 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  diamondogz7401/19/04 08:02 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  tragicyouth01/19/04 07:51 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality T  HelenaOfGale01/19/04 04:22 PM
.*Why do you say that  Emil01/19/04 04:19 PM
.*Why do I say what?  eraserhead01/19/04 04:54 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  Beltene01/19/04 03:52 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  Jubany01/19/04 04:10 PM
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