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NoControl
(kook)
02/10/04 05:30 PM
Re: Only hearing what you want to hear.. [re: EJSunday]  

I'll try again: half of the Dublin show were songs that were less known or new.

In this light, it's not a fair comparison to the Sound & Vision tour - as the sets were much shorter...

So how does that half of the show cater for big hits?
I do not compare this simple statistic to any other tour and have not done so before.


I've gone over this 18 million times! You should read what I'm saying.

If you had seen the S&V tour you would see the difference in attitude between then and now.

You can't be serious? Seeing people at a couple of German concerts as criteria for estimating how many people are into him now than before is the stupidest way of trying to figure out who's into his music at any given point in his career that I've ever heard.

Regardless of statistics as it is not just what you play but also how you do it.

You're bringing other factors into this which shouldn't be there and making things more confusing than they really are. I'm not talking about how the songs are performed, I'm talking about the hits that are played.

As I said before, it is certainly not an adventurous event as the Outside tour was - it is mainly a balanced programm between all Bowie has stood for in the past decades. Hits included.

I don't think so.

...That doesn't necessarily mean they are idiots and Collins fans.

I didn't say they were idiots. And I'm not saying that all of them are actual "Collins" fans because the phrase "Phil Collins" fans is a metaphor for commercially minded music consumers, obviously.

I'd rather say that he got many of those folks back that were into him up til Scary Monsters and probably through to "Let's Dance".

Well, the numbers show that much of the mid-eighties demographic is back.

At least here in Germany. Those people are probably a bit older than you and were drawn into his stuff by his 70s albums. Not the worst of music. And far from Collins pop.

That's debatable.


The Collins factor in his audience is not necessarily determined by the number of people turning out to see him.

Yes it is. The numbers don't lie.

In the late 70s he easily sold out the Deutschlandhalle, which was the largest indoor venue in Berlin at the time. On the "Outside" tour that hall was only about half full. Following your theories all those who packed the place in the late 70s (and all those who failed to get tickets) must have been into something similar to Phil Collins.

DB didn't have his "Phil Collins" audience until the eighties. On the Serious Moonlight tour DB sold out the Waldbuhne in Berlin to 22,500. The Deutschlandhalle holds around 10,000 and is much smaller - if there was that much more of a demand in '78, there would've been a second show.


But I am sure they were far more into what certainly was one of Bowie's best and most adventurous phases and not into any assumed mainstream pop. And they did not like that much what he was doing in the 90s.

Well, I'm sure that my socks were cleaned last night.

They didn't go with him in such vast amounts during the "Outside" phase which may disqualify them in your view but certainly doesn't necessarily lead to Collins fanship.

On the Outside tour, there were mostly to nearly all hard-core fans (excluding NIN's fan base).

The one thing that put Bowie massively back into the focus of his older fans (and hopefully a few younger ones as well) was definitely "Heathen". It sold sold very well in Germany after it got very postive reviews and after Bowie promoted it with TV appearances and the short tour.

So, all of his older fans got back into him on this tour because of one country's interest in a fairly new album???

I don't have figures to prove it but what I experienced at the four different Heathen/Reality gigs I saw in Germany was that it was those he had lost during the later 80s and with the Outside endeavours who returned to current shows. You may not share those people's taste but you can hardly call them Collins fans. And to get some proof beyond numbers go and listen to the Berlin Reality boot. And then come back and tell me the folks only got off on China Girl.

I didn't say they only got off on China Girl. And yeah, I know..those audience members were really shaking it to TMWSTW, The Lonliest Guy, Fantastic Voyage, Days, etc.! Give me a break!

...don't tell god your plans...

Edited by NoControl on 02/10/04 05:35 PM (server time).




 
Entire thread
Subject  Posted byPosted on
*Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  eraserhead01/19/04 03:39 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  pablopicasso04/29/04 10:18 AM
.*Rock on and on and on ad infinitum  diamondogz7404/29/04 03:09 PM
.*Re: Rock on and on and on ad infinitum  prrrrr04/30/04 11:15 AM
.*Re: Rock on and on and on ad infinitum  diamondogz7405/01/04 07:11 AM
.*Re: Rock on and on and on ad infinitum  pablopicasso05/01/04 07:23 AM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  prrrrr04/29/04 02:39 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  jabow04/29/04 02:03 PM
.*Is NoControl defying sanity with A Reality Tour?  EJSundayModerator04/29/04 10:34 AM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  soho_beatnik02/06/04 03:59 AM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  thekillingmoon02/05/04 04:38 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  NoControl01/26/04 04:29 AM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  dice01/27/04 07:31 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality T  globule201/28/04 01:21 AM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality T  NoControl01/28/04 01:23 AM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality T  globule201/28/04 01:28 AM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality T  NoControl01/28/04 01:46 AM
.*More Statistics  EJSundayModerator01/28/04 08:13 AM
.*Re: More Statistics  globule201/28/04 09:44 AM
.*Re: More Statistics  bowiefanpeter01/28/04 04:53 PM
.*Re: More Ignorance  NoControl01/28/04 08:27 PM
.*Re: More Ignorance  globule201/28/04 10:51 PM
.*Re: Ignorance is a funny thing  NoControl01/29/04 04:35 AM
.*Re: More Statistics  jabow01/28/04 05:26 PM
.*Re: More Statistics  globule201/28/04 06:49 PM
.*Re: More Statistics  bowiefanpeter01/30/04 09:06 PM
.*Re: More Statistics  NoControl01/30/04 09:41 PM
.*Re: More Statistics  th0mas01/29/04 08:02 AM
.*Re: More Statistics  Dara01/29/04 12:05 PM
.*Re: More Statistics  dice01/29/04 01:53 PM
.*Set List Categories  EJSundayModerator01/30/04 06:22 AM
.*More Imaginary Statistics  EJSundayModerator01/28/04 11:19 AM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality T  BillHague01/28/04 02:27 AM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  Nature_Boy01/21/04 05:11 AM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  Claude01/20/04 04:17 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  eraserhead01/20/04 06:21 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  Claude01/21/04 03:45 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  Emil01/21/04 03:54 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  Dara01/22/04 06:27 AM
.*Defy My Money  poorsoul01/22/04 05:52 PM
.*Re: Defy My Money  Dara01/23/04 07:17 AM
.*More Money  poorsoul01/29/04 11:52 PM
.*Re: Defy My Money  poorsoul01/29/04 11:42 PM
.*Painting yourself into a corner  eraserhead01/23/04 07:52 AM
.*Re: Painting yourself into a corner  SoulLoveChild01/23/04 07:48 PM
.*Re: Painting yourself into a corner  bowiefanpeter01/23/04 07:59 PM
.*Re: Painting yourself into a corner  pablopicasso01/23/04 08:48 PM
.*Re: Painting yourself into a corner  bowiefanpeter01/23/04 09:04 PM
.*Re: Painting yourself into a corner  Dara01/27/04 06:29 AM
.*Re: Painting yourself into a corner  christiancode01/29/04 08:22 PM
.*Hits schmits  Dara01/30/04 06:52 AM
.*Re: Hits schmits  bowiefanpeter01/30/04 09:43 PM
.*Re: Hits schmits  NoControl01/30/04 09:28 PM
.*Re: Hits schmits  Dara02/05/04 06:51 AM
.*Re: Hits schmits  NoControl02/05/04 07:19 AM
.*Re: Hits schmits  dice02/05/04 01:31 PM
.*Bits Fits  poorsoul02/06/04 00:02 AM
.*Re: Is this a joke?  NoControl02/06/04 02:07 AM
.*Re: Bits Fits  globule202/06/04 01:09 AM
.*Gits  poorsoul02/06/04 11:44 PM
.*Re: Hits schmits  zigbot02/05/04 02:40 PM
.*Re: Hits schmits  NoControl02/05/04 06:40 PM
.*Re: Hits schmits  Dara02/06/04 06:24 AM
.*Re: Hits schmits  NoControl02/06/04 06:58 AM
.*Re: Hits schmits  Dara02/06/04 03:38 PM
.*Re: Hits schmits  jabow02/06/04 02:58 PM
.*Re: Hits schmits  NoControl02/06/04 08:08 PM
.*Re: Hits schmits  dice02/06/04 01:45 PM
.*Get real paid  White Prism02/06/04 03:30 PM
.*Re: Get real paid  dice02/06/04 07:03 PM
.*A Hit Is Not Simply A Song You Think Is One  EJSundayModerator02/07/04 06:39 AM
.*Re: Oh Really?  NoControl02/07/04 07:46 AM
.*Lies, Damned Lies  poorsoul02/07/04 11:22 PM
.*what *is* he?  JonnyManic02/07/04 06:09 PM
.*Re: To my best friend...  NoControl02/08/04 08:03 PM
.*Re: To my best friend...  CAwesome02/08/04 08:18 PM
.*Re: Duh!  NoControl02/08/04 08:22 PM
.*Look  EJSundayModerator02/09/04 03:47 AM
.*Re: Zzzzzzzz....  NoControl02/09/04 04:03 AM
.*you simply never get it right  EJSundayModerator02/09/04 04:13 AM
.*Re: YOU simply never get it right  NoControl02/09/04 04:25 AM
.*Why don't you answer my posts?  EJSundayModerator02/09/04 06:52 AM
.*Re: Why don't you answer my posts?  NoControl02/09/04 07:06 AM
.*Re: Why don't you answer my posts?  EJSundayModerator02/09/04 07:14 AM
.*Re: Because I don't want to repeat myself  NoControl02/09/04 09:37 AM
.*Re: Because I don't want to repeat myself  Emil02/10/04 04:06 AM
.*Re: Because I don't want to repeat myself  NoControl02/10/04 06:07 AM
.*More Lunacy From The TWer Without Any Clue  EJSundayModerator02/10/04 06:40 AM
.*Re: More Lunacy From The TWer Without Any Clue  NoControl02/10/04 07:06 AM
.*Re: More Lunacy From The TWer Without Any Clue  EJSundayModerator02/10/04 07:20 AM
.*Re: Out of your depth, completely  NoControl02/10/04 07:46 AM
.*Too Narrow Minded  EJSundayModerator02/10/04 08:24 AM
..Re: Only hearing what you want to hear..  NoControl02/10/04 05:30 PM
.*I Admit That I Wasted Time And Space Here  EJSundayModerator02/10/04 05:43 PM
.*Re: I Admit That I Wasted Time And Space Here  NoControl02/10/04 05:46 PM
.*Re: I Admit That I Wasted Time And Space Here  dice02/10/04 07:37 PM
.*Bloated  poorsoul02/10/04 11:53 PM
.*Semantics  Dara02/11/04 04:41 AM
.*Re: Semantics  globule202/11/04 09:30 AM
.*Re: Semantics  Dara02/11/04 02:04 PM
.*Re: Completely wrong  NoControl02/11/04 06:37 PM
.*Uair eile leis an ri amadan  Dara02/12/04 04:46 AM
.*Re: Uair eile leis an ri amadan  dice02/12/04 01:56 PM
.*Re: Uair eile leis an ri amadan  diamondogz7402/12/04 02:45 PM
.*SOUND + VISION 2  christiancode02/13/04 08:14 AM
.*Re: SOUND + VISION 2  bowiefanpeter02/14/04 05:00 AM
.*Re: Uair eile leis an ri amadan  NoControl02/12/04 05:05 AM
.*Re: Uair eile leis an ri amadan  Dara02/12/04 07:46 AM
.*Re: Uair eile leis an ri amadan  NoControl02/12/04 08:18 AM
.*Re: Semantics  NoControl02/11/04 06:41 AM
.*Re: Semantics  pablopicasso02/11/04 06:45 PM
.*Re: Semantics  NoControl02/11/04 06:51 PM
.*Re: Semantics  pablopicasso02/11/04 07:06 PM
.*Re: Semantics  NoControl02/11/04 07:24 PM
.*Re: Semantics  CAwesome02/11/04 08:31 PM
.*Defining obscure hits and greatest hits tours  pablopicasso02/11/04 07:54 PM
.*Re: Defining obscure hits and greatest hits tours  NoControl02/11/04 08:17 PM
.*Re: Defining obscure hits and greatest hits tours  pablopicasso02/12/04 02:45 AM
.*Re: Defining obscure hits and greatest hits tours  NoControl02/12/04 03:53 AM
.*Re: Defining obscure hits and greatest hits tours  dice02/11/04 08:33 PM
.*Re: Bloated  bowiefanpeter02/11/04 00:31 AM
.*Re: I Admit That I Wasted Time And Space Here  BillHague02/10/04 08:38 PM
.*Re: I Admit That I Wasted Time And Space Here  dice02/11/04 08:36 PM
.*Re: I Admit That I Wasted Time And Space Here  NoControl02/10/04 09:33 PM
.*Re: I Admit That I Wasted Time And Space Here  pablopicasso02/10/04 06:04 PM
.*Re: I Admit That I Wasted Time And Space Here  diamondogz7402/12/04 08:49 AM
.*Boys Keep Arguing  EJSundayModerator02/10/04 06:12 PM
.*Re: Because I don't want to repeat myself  dice02/09/04 02:10 PM
.*Re: Why don't you answer my posts?  bowiefanpeter02/09/04 07:24 AM
.*Re: Why don't you answer my posts?  NoControl02/09/04 09:38 AM
.*Re: Why don't you answer my posts?  EJSundayModerator02/09/04 11:36 AM
.*Are You Answering My Post?  EJSundayModerator02/09/04 08:49 AM
.*Re: what *is* he?  jabow02/07/04 11:00 PM
.*Re: Probably not, unless...  NoControl02/08/04 08:12 PM
.*Re: Oh Really?  dice02/07/04 02:41 PM
.*Hits Schmitz  pablopicasso02/07/04 02:52 PM
.*Re: Hits Schmitz  diamondogz7402/09/04 08:07 AM
.*In The Next World  poorsoul02/07/04 00:10 AM
.*Re: Hits schmits  CAwesome02/05/04 08:40 PM
.*Why? Why?  poorsoul02/05/04 11:01 PM
.*Re: Why? Why?  CAwesome02/06/04 03:44 PM
.*Re: Why? Why?  poorsoul02/06/04 11:57 PM
.*Boring for who?  pablopicasso02/06/04 03:40 AM
.*Mediocrity For All  poorsoul02/06/04 11:53 PM
.*Re: Hits schmits  dice02/05/04 08:13 PM
.*Can't Hit This  poorsoul02/01/04 01:14 AM
.*Re: Painting yourself into a corner  NoControl01/30/04 00:03 AM
.*Putting Out Fire With Gasoline  EJSundayModerator01/27/04 06:37 AM
.*Re: Painting yourself into a corner  Dara01/23/04 09:46 AM
.*Re: Painting yourself into a corner  dice01/23/04 08:00 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  diamondogz7401/22/04 08:01 AM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  Claude01/21/04 04:19 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  pablopicasso01/21/04 04:00 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality T  Emil01/22/04 04:06 AM
.*knock it off  Emil01/21/04 05:19 PM
.*Sound revisionism  Dara01/20/04 06:45 AM
.*Re: Sound revisionism  SysiyoModerator01/20/04 03:20 PM
.*too bad he didn't do it in Helsinki then  Emil01/21/04 09:24 AM
.*Not A Chart Show  EJSundayModerator01/20/04 07:49 AM
.*Re: Not A Chart Show  gus_01/20/04 09:29 AM
.*Re: Not A Chart Show  gus_01/20/04 09:50 AM
.*Re: Not A Chart Show  eraserhead01/20/04 09:49 AM
.*Minstrel In The Gallery  EJSundayModerator01/20/04 10:54 AM
.*Not Defying  Si_rocks01/20/04 09:54 AM
.*Re: Sound revisionism  eraserhead01/20/04 07:18 AM
.*Re: Sound revisionism  Dara01/21/04 05:59 AM
.*here's my theory  eraserhead01/21/04 10:06 AM
.*I Am Too Old For Retro  EJSundayModerator01/21/04 11:05 AM
.*Re: I Am Too Old For Retro  Schenk01/21/04 12:36 PM
.*Two In One - But Still There Are Differences  EJSundayModerator01/22/04 05:41 AM
.*You guys are so old!  eraserhead01/21/04 12:14 PM
.*Re: You guys are so old!  Dara01/21/04 01:28 PM
.*Re: here's my theory  Dara01/21/04 10:26 AM
.*Standards And Changes  EJSundayModerator01/21/04 07:00 AM
.*Re: Standards And Changes  Si_rocks01/21/04 08:39 AM
.*Miffled  poorsoul01/22/04 00:18 AM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  SysiyoModerator01/20/04 04:12 AM
.*Good post Sysiyo  eraserhead01/20/04 06:17 AM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  CAwesome01/19/04 08:59 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  dice01/20/04 01:32 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality T  SoulLoveChild01/20/04 06:22 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality T  dice01/20/04 07:20 PM
.*dice didn't defy expectations either  SoulLoveChild01/21/04 01:47 AM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality T  jabow01/20/04 07:27 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality T  pablopicasso01/20/04 06:58 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  tv eye01/19/04 11:25 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  bowiefanpeter01/19/04 09:22 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality T  dukewhite01/19/04 08:19 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  dice01/19/04 08:12 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  diamondogz7401/19/04 08:02 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  tragicyouth01/19/04 07:51 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality T  HelenaOfGale01/19/04 04:22 PM
.*Why do you say that  Emil01/19/04 04:19 PM
.*Why do I say what?  eraserhead01/19/04 04:54 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  Beltene01/19/04 03:52 PM
.*Re: Is Bowie defying expectations with A Reality Tour?  Jubany01/19/04 04:10 PM
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