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White Prism
(crash course raver)
08/13/04 01:36 PM
A loveable asshole? [re: Dara]  

In reply to:

(Krettis) More? explain that one please...

I did, in my second post. Unless you mean you want to see the original Nazi quotes, in which case search for ‘Adolf’ in the quotes forum.

In reply to:

(Dara) I think it goes to the nature of your fandom, personally. People are fans for different reasons - because they feel they identify with the artist, because he's attractive to them physically, because they like his persona. If you fall into one of those categories and something happens to make you doubt the basis of your fandom, then yes, I could see why you wouldn't be a fan any more.

I suppose I fit into the ‘identification’ category. I’m not attracted physically to Bowie (though I consider Ziggy’s use of make-up and the Duke’s appearance interesting to discuss) nor his persona (like Zigbot’s Manic Laughter thread) but, like I said, I’m curious about his ideas on art and politics and suchlike. Namely, I’ve bought quite a few albums from other artists he’s suggested (which were kinda helpful to see where’s coming from musically) and I guess from the few political snippets I’ve heard he’s fairly left-wing. Not that these things are essential in judging the quality of his music (there are quite a number of god-fearing musicians I like yet don’t identify with, and also a larger number I know no biography about whatsoever) but maybe it makes me judge him more leniently.

I suppose I see artists as having role outside of just their work. Potentially there’s a sphere of social/political commentary they can provide outside of their music and use to infuse and educate others with ideas. I’m not sure what this makes them . . . leaders? Role models?

In reply to:

But I don't particularly identify with Bowie. That was never the basis of my fandom. I don't "support" him like I support my favourite sports team. If it was announced that Arsenal was openly fascist (as, for example, SS Lazio are), then I'd quickly drop them. Because in supporting a sports team, identification is important.

Okay, but presumably you’d still have to admit liking Arsenal’s (or SS Lozio’s) style of football regardless to the ideas propagated beyond the pitch. There isn’t anything intrinsically fascist about the way they play (unless, say, SS Lazio adopt the much-underrated ‘swastika formation’ to intimidate their opponents?)

In reply to:

James Joyce . . . fucked up asshole

He was? To some extent he was pompous and vengeful and, at various times of his life, broke, drunken and refused to speak to his wife for several days at a time, but nothing as serious as the charges levelled at Glitter et al. If anything, my identity with Joyce would be through his views on art, nationalism, religion, abortion, etc., not on how long it took him to repay his loan to so-and-so. And he refused to pray at this mother’s request at her deathbed . . . Wow! Isn’t that great?!

By way of contrast, I find the religious elements of T.S. Eliot somewhat alienating. Sure, I can appreciate he used language in a highly dextrous way, that he was pioneering, and I certainly like to talk about him – I consider him ‘interesting’, to use a word you used frequently in your last post (I hope I’ve used it in a similarly lukewarm manner in this post) – but I’d stop short of saying I was a supporter or even a fan. Why? Quite possibly because I don’t identify and I find his particular brand of religion irksome. Though, as I mentioned earlier, I don’t draw the line at religion and my interpretation on how it operates in an individual is somewhat arbitrary. With that in mind, I guess my high opinion of Al Green is always subject to change; maybe my high opinion is based on the fact I know zilch about him and, when I do, one day I’ll never be able to listen to ‘Belle’ without it conjuring up all the annoying aspects of religious preaching.

Just to reiterate an earlier point: I’m pretty much convinced you have separated Bowie the artist and Bowie the person (I said I believed you in my opening post, right? ), but also that for many people (myself included) this is easier said than done.

No never, no never no more
will I trust the elves of Dunsimore

Entire thread
Subject  Posted byPosted on
*Leaving Bowie  hangontoyourself08/12/04 05:22 AM
.*Re: Leaving Bowie  Claude08/18/04 03:37 PM
.*Re: Leaving Bowie  schizophrenic08/13/04 08:13 PM
.*Blew, blew, lectric blew.  diamondogz7408/15/04 07:45 AM
.*Re: Leaving Bowie  CharlieManson08/13/04 02:44 PM
.*Lowing  poorsoul08/14/04 01:26 AM
.*Re: Leaving Bowie  bowiefanpeter08/13/04 04:32 PM
.*Re: Leaving Bowie  carsten08/13/04 09:41 AM
.*Re: Leaving Bowie  Tin08/13/04 02:51 AM
.*Re: Leaving Bowie  SoulLoveChild08/13/04 10:15 AM
.*Re: Leaving Bowie  Tin08/13/04 04:44 PM
.*Re: Leaving Bowie  bowiefanpeter08/12/04 08:15 PM
.*Re: Leaving Bowie  SoulLoveChild08/12/04 08:51 PM
.*Re: Leaving Bowie  bowiefanpeter08/12/04 10:05 PM
.*Re: Leaving Bowie  jump9308/12/04 08:34 PM
.*Re: Leaving Bowie  Persilot08/13/04 11:28 AM
.*12 years old, mate  Pythonis08/17/04 01:22 AM
.*Zynaps  poorsoul08/14/04 01:21 AM
.*Pall mall  Starlite08/17/04 07:06 PM
.*Admission  poorsoul08/18/04 05:17 AM
.*Re: Admission  Starlite08/18/04 05:32 PM
.*Re: Admission  SysiyoModerator08/19/04 04:48 AM
.*Re: Admission  Starlite08/19/04 11:22 AM
.*Arrogance  NomDePlume08/18/04 06:22 AM
.*Re: Leaving Bowie  hangontoyourself08/13/04 01:49 PM
.*Re: Leaving Bowie  bowiefanpeter08/12/04 10:10 PM
.*Re: Leaving Bowie  SoulLoveChild08/12/04 10:22 PM
.*Lord what a question ?  diamondogz7408/12/04 03:21 PM
.*Pretty persuasion  White Prism08/12/04 03:00 PM
.*Supporter or fan?  Dara08/13/04 06:05 AM
..A loveable asshole?  White Prism08/13/04 01:36 PM
.*would you respect me if you knew I shagged sheep?  JonnyManic08/17/04 10:48 PM
.*Lemme guess, you fucked my mom too  White Prism08/18/04 01:17 PM
.*no outer peace without inner peace. man  JonnyManic08/24/04 05:06 PM
.*Wagner.  diamondogz7408/18/04 06:36 AM
.*Re: Wagner.  RabbitFighter08/18/04 06:50 AM
.*dolty  JonnyManic08/18/04 12:03 PM
.*Re: dolty  The_Omen08/21/04 07:18 PM
.*Standards.  diamondogz7408/18/04 07:52 AM
.*Re: Standards.  RabbitFighter08/18/04 09:01 AM
.*Re: A loveable asshole?  Dara08/17/04 09:02 AM
.*Re: Supporter or fan?  BigFatDog08/13/04 07:49 AM
.*Re: Supporter or fan?  Dara08/13/04 08:14 AM
.*strangers when we meet  krettis08/13/04 04:09 AM
.*Water off a duck's back  pablopicasso08/12/04 03:38 PM
.*Head off a dove's body  White Prism08/12/04 04:10 PM
.*Re: Head off a dove's body  schizophrenic08/12/04 05:17 PM
.*Re: Head off a dove's body  HopFrog08/12/04 05:23 PM
.*Re: Head off a dove's body  zigbot08/12/04 07:39 PM
.*Re: Water off a duck's back  RabbitFighter08/12/04 03:55 PM
.*Re: Leaving Bowie  wannabebowie08/12/04 11:50 AM
.*Re: Leaving Bowie  SysiyoModerator08/12/04 11:29 AM
.*Re: Leaving Bowie  zigbot08/12/04 12:55 PM
.*Re: Leaving Bowie  SysiyoModerator08/12/04 02:29 PM
.*Re: Leaving Bowie  SoulLoveChild08/12/04 08:42 PM
.*Re: Leaving Bowie  Persilot08/12/04 09:11 AM
.*Re: Leaving Bowie  LadyGravedigger08/12/04 12:16 PM
.*Re: Leaving Bowie  hangontoyourself08/12/04 11:21 AM
.*Re: Leaving Bowie  Dara08/12/04 08:36 AM
.*Re: Leaving Bowie  RabbitFighter08/12/04 08:19 AM
.*Re: Leaving Bowie  pablopicasso08/12/04 08:28 AM
.*Re: Leaving Bowie  pablopicasso08/12/04 06:25 AM
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