Teenage Wildlife Guestbook July 1998

Thank you for visiting Teenage Wildlife. Here are some previous user's comments.


Aimee: there are still artists who live in Soho, but for the most part they are now-established artists who snapped up lofts in industrial buildings in the 70's (when they were of course a lot cheaper). Now they are bigtime artists with huge apartment/workspaces in a neighborhood they helped create. I know this mainly because I've been in a few of these amazing spaces. Yes, artists do also live in the East Village. Hell, they live everywhere in NYC. There's even an artists' community that has been established out in the Rockaways (i.e. the far-east tip of Brooklyn, past JFK Airport). DB lives on E. 4th Street between Lafayette and Broadway. This isn't really the East Village; technically, it's part of a small neighborhood called Noho (North of Houston, get it?). Noho's been around a while, but there has been a trend recently to give fractions of larger neighborhoods names based on acronyms. Examples: the aforementioned "DUMBO," "Nolita" for North of Little Italy, and "STOMP" for Southern Tip of Meat-Packing (District) = part of the West Village. Silly, but fun.
Gwinevere (Gwinny@aol.com)
New York, NY USA - Friday, July 31, 1998 at 11:33:42 (EDT)
I hope everyone who disapproves of David supporting Nitsch harming animals will voice their opinion! I am vegetarian, but I find this event revolting because it is killing for entertainment. Just because animals have a hard time in slaughterhouses doesn't mean they should be disemboweled for pleasure. I fear this leads to desensitizing the public toward sadism and violence. If these people want to experience "dark inspiration," they should visit a slaughterhouse-- they don't have to contribute to more killing. I grew up being a very big Bowie fan, but I am so upset and disillusioned by this animal massacre, that I can no longer listen to him.
Cyb
USA - Friday, July 31, 1998 at 03:20:43 (EDT)
hey aimee, DUMBO is actually in Brooklyn as well. It's (get this) Down Under the Manhattan Bridge Overpass--cute huh? Along the River there are some great loft spaces and a realley enthusiastic art scene. I used to live in Brooklyn Heights (talk about squeaky and clean), but there aren't even beautiful people to gawk at there, so now I livin' in Billyburg, which has potential, but too many kids there for a scene than trying to make one happen. kinda like St. Marks--too many people there not contributing just getting loaded and asking for handouts. i always thought that Jersey City had the potential for that kind of thing, but I guess I was thinking about New Oxford Town NJ--hee, hee.....
NITEFLITE
NY, NY USA - Thursday, July 30, 1998 at 19:53:40 (EDT)
Gwinny -- I'm so jealous of you living in SoHo! I'm stuck out here in Joyzee. I still love SoHo, even though it has transitioned from artist haven to shopping district for Beautiful People. I still love visiting the galleries. Here's a naive question for y'all: Where's DUMBO? And isn't the far East Village (i.e. Thomkins sp? Square Park area) still a pretty artist-friendly area? Bowie's new place is just on the "safe" border of that neighborhood, isn't it?!
aimee
USA - Thursday, July 30, 1998 at 17:44:07 (EDT)
Hi all, I'm watching VH1's top ten countdown right now and the catagory today is "10 sexiest men in music". I say he's number 1, but I guess that goes with out saying... Anyway he's number 8 according to them. Goatta love that!
Theresa (Plixus@aol.com)
MN USA - Thursday, July 30, 1998 at 17:24:45 (EDT)
Aimee: oh, I think you are right about "Into the Night" taking place in L.A. Silly me. But while that film does indeed have an "Innocent guy caught in wrong life" scenario, I don't feel that this is really the case with "After Hours." The protagonist is just having a lot of bad luck (i.e. losing all his money, getting lost, etc.). To be honest, I'd have to go back and watch them both again because I haven't seen either in years. I didn't really like "Into the Night" except for the all-too-brief DB segments. Niteflite: yes, Soho is fairly homogenized now - - but it's also a lot safer and cleaner. I like living there very much. DUMBO and Williamsburg (as well as the NW part of Chelsea, and Greenpoint) are indeed new "artist neighborhoods" but of course, as they are discovered as such, I imagine the same thing will happen to them: businesses will move in to capitalize on the new populations, real estate will become more valuable and go up in price, and voila! another Soho. It's rather inevitable. So there is my brief urban planning sermon of the day ; )
Gwinevere (Gwinny@aol.com)
New York, NY USA - Thursday, July 30, 1998 at 17:03:39 (EDT)
SOHO has changed alot since 1985. it used to have alot of character, and interesting folk now it's all squeakey and sans personality. It seems now that Williamsburg and DUMBO are the neiborhoods that offering the affordable loft space for studios that SOHO once did
NITEFLITE
NY, NY USA - Thursday, July 30, 1998 at 14:48:34 (EDT)
errrgh! You guys make it so hard for me to get outta here. Thanks to Reinhold for posting that, (both times)! I'm not trying to convince anyone that they should LIKE this art, my missionary work consists of trying to bring the level of hysteria down with information. Tura, I'm not saying that because it's in a museum you have to like it. The museums are full of stuff that I don't like but I wouldn't say that it isn't art. I'm extremely ambivalent about Koons work, which, to me makes it good art. (I hope I didn't hurt you when I slapped you on the head!) It's easy to see a picture of flowers (not necessarily Koons') and say, 'Pretty, that's good art!' -and move on to the next pretty picture.... And being a true lover of modernism, I can easily support that kind of art. But for me, better art induces lots of conflicting thoughts and feelings in the viewer. It makes you question not only 'What is art?' but 'What are my beliefs about this subject matter?'...and forces the viewer to seriously examine things about themselves. So many people here say they've softened on this subject, and I'd like to think that that softening is a result of some serious investigation and thought on the subject. That's what Nitsch's work does. And that's what good art does, no matter how ugly. Unlike entertainment, it forces you to think. As for the animals and their fate, It's obvious even from the conflicting reports that we're reading, that these animals are slaughtered under better circumstances than would be found in a conventional slaughterhouse. I'm reluctant to bring this issue into the debate, hard enough to focus these arguments as it is, but some early cultures believed in human sacrifice, and to be that human sacrifice was a great honor. They were treated very well. It seems from reading Nitsch's statements, no matter which one, that there is great concern about the treatment of these animals. If he were simply going to kill an animal for the sake of slaughter, why sedate them? Why all this attention to the circumstances to their deaths? Thanks to everyone for expressing their views. It's made for such a lively discussion. And on a lighter note: There's a stunning full page photo of Iman wearing the most amazing dress in the August issue of 'W.' Truly beautiful. However, be warned, -she's also wearing fur! I hope this doesn't cause a similar uproar..... (and I hope my sarcasm is painfully obvious.) D.S.
D.S.
SF, USA - Thursday, July 30, 1998 at 14:33:57 (EDT)
And there I go with the typographical errors again...did that make any sense???
aimee
USA - Thursday, July 30, 1998 at 14:22:55 (EDT)
Gwinny - Didn't "Into the Night" take place in L.A.? I found a lot more similarities between than and "After Hours"... the whole 'Innocent Guy Caught in the Wrong Life' thing seems to be the primary theme of both. In that respect, I find "Into the Night" more like "After Hours" than "Desperately Seeking Susan," which more about a woman finding herself than about a jewel theft. And personally, while I recognize that "AF" is a better film (those bagels!), I really enjoy "Into The Night." And not just because David Bowie's in it!!!
aimee
USA - Thursday, July 30, 1998 at 14:21:51 (EDT)
Hi Alys, I am in England at the moment, not sure if I can make it up to Scotland to see you but email me and we will see if I have the time and/or money for it. ;-)
Helen2
USA - Thursday, July 30, 1998 at 14:06:13 (EDT)
do you know of any bowie fan clubs on the net?
chantilly mckinnon (chantillym@hotmail.com)
Stirling, ON Canada - Thursday, July 30, 1998 at 14:05:35 (EDT)
KelMar: I pretty much agree with you about the name for the ISP. While I would have prefered to have had a name which only us die-harders might understand, he would need to have his name in there for the commercial recognition. I don't really like the idea of having something like STARLING@DAVIDBOWIE.COM as my e-mail address because it looks a bit one dimensional as far as my interests go. Something like STARLING@HUNGERCITY.COM or STARLING@PALLASATHENA.COM would have been more to my liking, but again who else but us will know that....DARA: In response to something you said the other day, I for one find it difficult to seperate Bowie's music from my feelings about him as a person because I believe he was such a big impact on me growing up during the "let me find myself" teen years. In addition to the music, I was attracted to Bowie because his interests were so diversified, because he soaks up cultures and is as "at home" in Bali as he is in NYC, because he reads 18 books a month (or week), because everyone who meets him comments on how charming and friendly he is, because he looks so great in clothes, and because he proves that you can be so damn "cool" and still have loads of class. So for me, to use your example, it might be devastating if he supported the bombing of an abortion clinic or other such horrible event. As for the animal slaughtering, I'm not too comfortable with it so I'm trying to ignore the story completly.
bart "STARLING" (tinmac2@aol.com)
NJ USA - Thursday, July 30, 1998 at 13:24:22 (EDT)
Just checking in quick. I caught Last Temptation of Christ the other night. Brilliant movie. Other semi-interesting tidbit: VH1 ranks Bowie (using Let's Dance as the proof) as the #8 sexiest man in music. It was an altogether strange countdown, but hey.
Aquaria
USA - Thursday, July 30, 1998 at 13:05:14 (EDT)
Being a "film person," I thought I'd contribute my two cents into this whole "After Hours"/"Into the Night" discussion. The films are indeed contemporaries - - and both do take place in La Grande Pomme - - but in general the similarities end there. "After Hours," directed by Martin Scorsese, is considered to be a classic of sorts. I've heard current filmmakers cite it as an influence on their own work. Basically, it is a black comedy about a hapless guy who, on his way to a date in Soho, has all sorts of misfortunes befall him on the way (and meets a number of sketchy characters as well). On the other hand, "Into the Night" does indeed have some plot devices in common with "Desperately Seeking Susan": jewel theft, mistaken identity, etc. I don't think it was very successful, and seems to have been basically forgotten (at least as far as I can see). A side note about "After Hours": I live in Soho, and was shocked to see how dingy and run-down the neighborhood looked in 1985. I mean, I knew the nabe had changed a lot (esp. this decade), but it just looked so BLEAK.
Gwinevere (Gwinny@aol.com)
New York, NY USA - Thursday, July 30, 1998 at 11:36:51 (EDT)
Hi Alys, we miss you. Come back to chat soon, before the lunatics take ove r the asylum! :-D Bowie reference of the day: Bowienet was mentioned on Bloomberg Information Television from NY today, citing that he originally wanted www.bowienet.com, however some guy whose last name is Bowie (the damned copycat) already has a webpage for his horse racing capabilities. The name of the page is "Bill Bowie's Harness Racing Homepage." (ed note: whoo-hoo dagbirnit!)Apparently it is chock full of everything you need to know about being handicapped. Or something like that. They did say Bowie was an innovator on Bloomberg, so I guess there is something to be said for that. My question is this: If he is so damn innovative, why didn't Bowie come up with a name BETTER than Bowienet? I mean if some harness racer thought it up first, you think Dave would try to do better... Just wondering.
KelMar
USA - Thursday, July 30, 1998 at 11:30:19 (EDT)
Just to qualify my opinions, I am a vegetarian because, for personal reasons, I choose not to eat meat. I understand that people are omnivores, and I don't fault anyone for eating meat. Nor do I have a problem with using the by-products of the animals we slaughter for food, although I try my best not to use those, again for personal reasons. (I do think we should be more aware and thankful for the animals that produce our food and clothing, however.) The problem, for me, is in unnecessary killing: vivisection, fur, etc. I also have issues with this whole new craze of eating alligators and ostrich. But my views are my views, and I don't expect you all to follow!
aimee
USA - Thursday, July 30, 1998 at 11:07:19 (EDT)
A few things: DARA -- while I totally respect your views, the life of a cow on a farm is no better than that of tiger in zoo. Seriously, this is not bleeding heart stuff, I swear! Animals kept for slaughter are not treated well at all, and I get this not from PETA, but from market research I was paid to do while in college. Also on the topic, I'm still reading Reinhold's posting, which I've copied into Notepad, but it seems to me that there are a lot of different versions -- from Nitsch -- regarding the state of these animals. On Nitsch's own site, they state that the animals were NOT taken from slaugtherhouses, and that they are sedated prior to their slaughter onsite at the castle. Am I going nuts, or are there three different stories about this??? REGARDING ROSANNA ARQUETTE: I KNOW she was in "The Linguine Incident," but the reason I thought of "After Hours" is that it's the same movie as "Into the Night," basically, except that it takes place in NY's SOHO!!!
aimee
USA - Thursday, July 30, 1998 at 11:02:10 (EDT)
Um, I was wondering about Into The Night as well, but I don't know spanish. Could someone please rephrase Aki's description of it in English please???
Oddity
USA - Thursday, July 30, 1998 at 09:17:14 (EDT)
The new "Dario G featuring David Bowie" single must be out soon because I saw (a bit of) the video on "Ireland's Top 30" on Tuesday (repeated on Saturday I think for any interested Paddies). As far as I could see, no Bowie in the video (or Dario G for that matter) - it looked similar to their first (Sunchyme) video, sort of a naturalistic futuristic look. Also for any Paddies looking to acquire a copy of the magnificent "The Dark Side Of David Bowie", Tower in Wicklow Street have come good again and got in a few more copies.
Just to clear something up on Nitsch before we move on. I have been a lifelong opponent of blood sports, despite my belief that there's nothing particularly wrong with what Nitsch is doing. The key differences for me is that these are animals that were to be slaughtered (for meat) anyway, they were treated humanely during their lives, and their slaughter will be humane, and they will still be used for meat (rather than entertainment). The one thing that has always stopped me from becoming a vegetarian (apart from liking the taste of meat ;)) is that it seems to me that once you remove the economic benefit of keeping animals (food, clothing), the reality is they'll just practically disappear altogether, save for those suitable for use as pets or zoo exhibits. I'd rather be a cow on a farm leading a happy life than a tiger cooped up in a zoo, even if it meant (as a cow) being slaughtered at the end for meat.

Dara
Ireland - Thursday, July 30, 1998 at 04:48:05 (EDT)
Eeeek, D.S. - everything's bolded on the GB:((
Reinhold
- Thursday, July 30, 1998 at 03:26:55 (EDT)
Due to popular demand:) Further information can be found at Nitsch' site Monday, the 3rd of august 1998 marks the start of the Six-Day-Play by the viennese action painter Hermann Nitsch at the castle of Prinzendorf/Austria. The artist has situated his so called Orgies Mysteries Theatre in the grounds of his castle, an ideal location where he has lived since 1971. It is set in the middle of an idyllic landscape of the wine province of Lower Austria. The Six-Day-Play extends over a period of six days and six nights. In keeping with the wishes of the artist, it will be mounted in the castle, the gardens and the surrounding area. The action play will be coordinated in all its details by the director Alfred Gulden. An orchestra of 150 musicians will be conducted by the Salzburg composer Clemens Gadenstätter. Additional music will be provided by brass bands and a choir. The rehearsals for the about 150 actors of the Six-Day-Play will start mid-july. The organisation of the celebration requires a large-scale planning: the catering, for instance, for the as many as 1,000 visitors who are expected will be done on location. Preparations are running at high-speed. The celebration is the culmination of Hermann Nitsch's artistic work, which began in art-happenings and actionism. The central intention: to sensualize and intensify the five senses and bring about their synaesthetic amalgamation. Eating and drinking play a vital part in this. Nitsch sees the celebration as a unifying artwork in the tradition of Richard Wagner and Alexander Scriabin. Actions using flesh and blood are deeply linked with the clearing of myths in the psychology of C.G.Jung. The first conception of the Six-Day-Play bears the date 1958. (End) The work's length reflects the story of the creation, and it should be seen as an enlargement of the entire spectrum of monumental works of art. All of the actions that have been performed since then by the O.M. Theatre - i.e. since the early sixties and, from 1975 onwards, at Prinzendorf - should be understood as partial realisations of this Six-Day-Play. The Six-Day-Play must be seen as the most complete realisation of a concept ever to have come from the broad area of happenings, actions and performance. Hermann Nitsch: all of my artistic activities to date have been preparations for the six-day-play, which will be staged from 3 to 9 august at prinzendorf. the o.m. theatre is a genuinely new form of gesamtkunstwerk that has developed from happenings and actionism. nowhere will you find an actor playing a part. The crux of Nitsch's vocabulary, which involves painting, music and theatre while simultaneously transcending their boundaries, is the staging of genuinely occurring events. Here a process of aestheticisation reaches into the heart of everyday life, into social co-existence, even to eating and drinking. The states of human life will be shown in all their polarity, from the sublimest feelings of happiness and ecstasy, the intoxicated state of being as it unfolds, to the deepest abysses, revulsion, the bestial destructive rage of the darkest inner urges. These contradictions within man are to be revealed in all their extremity. In a festival which is directed to all of our senses, the mechanisms of repression in our affluent society will be contrasted with the intensity of unfolding life. The Setting of the Six-Day-Play The Orgies Mysteries Theatre is an artistic venture. Apart from its formal visual conceptions, a major part is played in it by music. The underlying concept for the development of the play's action comes from the symphony. The play is set in the castle grounds at Prinzendorf, with all of its spaces and premises, as well as the surrounding countryside of the Lower Austrian Wine District (Weinviertel). Nature and its produce are the authentic setting for the action, and the proper means for creating it. The sky, radiantly lit by day and scattered with stars by night, form the natural canopy to the events of the Six-Day-Play. The gently rolling countryside, with its hills, vineyards and fields, replaces the traditional stage. The castle courtyard, the wine cellars, the stables, are the scenes for the events. Genuine actions, concentrated into aesthetic sequences of actions, replace the spoken word and the merely symbolic, rehearsed plot of the classical stage. It is also planned to slaughter one bull each on the first, third and fifth days of the Six-Day-Play in order to demonstrate the unfathomable nature of the course of our lives. Nitsch: a psychoanalytically-oriented dramaturgy allows the dionysian to burst forth from within us. suppressed areas of inner impulses - and moreover the whole of our natural being - will be made visible. the actions with flesh, blood and slaughtered animals plumb the collective areas of our unconscious minds. all 5 senses will be activated and sensitized. intoxication, eating and drinking, are integral parts of the play. The inclusion of such episodes in the course of the action is neither a condemnation nor a glorification of such conduct. Rather it is simply illuminates what is concealed behind the everyday appearances of human co-existence, as in involved for instance in producing human sustenance. No animals will be slaughtered simply for the sake of the Six-Day-Play. The slaughtering that is to be incorporated into the action will simply be shifted from the slaughterhouse to the castle grounds. Man, a predatory animal, has to kill other living beings if he is to enjoy the pleasures of consuming meat. With that, man owes it to the slaughtered animal to become aware of this fact, instead of deluding himself with hygienic portioning and packaging. This aspect is not, however, the main concern of the O.M.Theatre. Nitsch regards it as just one of the many stations on the way to grasping the actual circumstances of life, a first step towards the realization that is necessary if one wishes to take action against intensive livestock farming, against slaughter under the most adverse conditions for the animal, i.e., for pure profit-making, and against the deliberate manipulation of the feed of animals whose metabolism is based on vegetarian nutriment. The bulls to be used in the Six-Day-Play have been reared by farmers with a sense of genuine responsibility towards them. These animals are spared much that their fellow creatures suffer, such as appalling transportation conditions, or the cold-blooded refusal to administer sedatives directly before slaughter, simply to ensure the quality of the meat. These animals die in a manner that does honour to their death, which simultaneously is a prerequisite for the continuance of human life. The participants respect their death by becoming aware of the circumstances of their own lives and by cooking and eating the animal's flesh. It is not the fact that animal slaughter is part of the Six-Day-Play of the Orgies Mysteries Theatre that should offend the environmentally aware. Rather they should be incensed by the very way such mechanisms are suppressed and the hypocrisy that grows from looking away from such necessary actions. Nitsch: the drama is to develop into a public celebration. excessive occurrences are confronted with meditative states. the paramount aim and purpose of this festival is a profound affirmation of our existence, our life and our creation. it should bring about an intense affirmation of being that will allow the ego to become self. the mysticism of being leads to a permanent festival of life. The Material Employed in the Play The score of the Six-Day-Play is 1,595 pages long and has been published in two volumes by Edition Freibord. The practical realisation of the score will begin in mid-July at Prinzendorf. 100 actors and 180 musicians will rehearse the play for a total of 21 days before staging it for the anticipated 1,000 participants (guests). The importance that Nitsch places on the music of his Six-Day-Play can be seen from the list of performers: 60 wind and brass players, 20 strings, 30 drummers (small chimes, Indian bells, cow-bells, drums, cymbals, kettle drums, rattles, pea-whistles, large gongs), two brass bands, one string quartet, several Heuringen (tavern) bands, one choral schola singing Gregorian music, one mixed choir, one synthesizer. A special belfry will be erected in the castle courtyard to take five church bells. Fresh food will be served day and night. Apart from a canteen kitchen, which will prepare regional dishes for the main meals, there will also be an "amateur kitchen" where friends of the artist will prepare their own specialities as snacks. A permanent laboratory will be set up on the west side of the courtyard, where samples of smells (spices, essences) and tastes can be registered. The smell and taste motifs relate synaesthetically to the actions. In addition, 13,000 litres of wine will the provided in order to produce the intoxicated, unbridled joy demanded by the score. Further materials for the Six-Day-Play include: 1,000 kilos of tomatoes, 1,000 kilos of grapes, 10,000 roses, 10,000 other assorted flowers, and 1,000 litres of blood. Pigs and sheep will be provided, ready-slaughtered, from an abattoir. In addition, three bulls, whose meat will be prepared for consumption, will be slaughtered during three on-site actions. This will be performed by professional butchers under veterinary control. 60 stretchers, 15 wooden carrying devices and 100 shrines will be constructed for the play. Over 10,000 metres of canvas will be employed in the painting actions on the second day. 500 ritual shirts and trousers will be made to dress the actors and musicians throughout the play. 5,000 torches will be provided for the night-time torch parades. Finally, heavy military equipment will be employed on the fifth day of the festival in the form of two tanks.
Reinhold
- Thursday, July 30, 1998 at 03:23:55 (EDT)
Sheesh, Alys, you wouldn't be writing from a cybercafe on Pearl St?? Abandon all hope ye who enters La Jolla and Del Mar (or however that goes). Meanwhile, go and visit Pannikin for a dose of boring fun. Hope you have a good time with the lushes of Scotland. I mean, the LASSES of Scotland.

D.S, although I've relaxed my stance on the Nitsch/Bowie "scandal" and feel that Bowie can do whatever the hell he wants, I don't think that just because Nitsch is represented in every major museum around the world makes him a justifable artist. I mean, Jeff Koons is in all the majors as well, and his stuff is abominable to me. Oh hold on... my memory of a night in a pizza place is coming back to me. Deja vu - DS slapped me on the head that night and tried to convince me that Koons is worthy of merit. I won't fall for that line again!

I honestly think though, that everyone has dwelled on the "I'm NEVER buying Bowie again because he contributes to slaughtering of animal" bit way too much. Not that I defend it, but it's his life and if he wants to enjoy blood sports, let him. As for me, I won't be worrying as to how to get the skanky bull blood off my clothes.
Tura
USA - Wednesday, July 29, 1998 at 20:10:05 (EDT)


DUH!!! Rosanna Arquette was in "Linguine Incident." Sheesh, we are slipping here folks.
KelMar
USA - Wednesday, July 29, 1998 at 19:38:11 (EDT)
welcome back alys. spanking Evan won't help you need a whip with spikes to handle Evan and this might not work 2.
Shai Shammir (db1fan@netvision.net.il)
Ramat Gan, ISRAEL - Wednesday, July 29, 1998 at 19:29:07 (EDT)
Oh, and before I forget Evan, mum suggested that I give you a spanking (and a good idea it was too!)

SPANK!!


Alys (bowiephile@hotmail.com)
La Jolla, CA USA - Wednesday, July 29, 1998 at 18:57:52 (EDT)


Hi Everyone!!!! **hugs** I've missed you all... though I'm enjoying the sun in Del Mar and (today at least) the cybercafe in La Jolla :) Interesting art debates I see... Bew's been keeping me up to date. As far as I'm concerned - ICKY! And, Evan, I'm disappointed now - I've only entered your contest once because I've been offline for over a week!!! Many hugs and kisses to Jeaj, Spidey, Kali, patti, Helen2, Evan, Madame Sand (nice to see you again!), KelMar, DS, and everyone else :) I'll be back in Calgary for a day or two, then it's off to Scotland...byeeeeee!
Alys (bowiephile@hotmail.com)
La Jolla, CA USA - Just Visiting.... - Wednesday, July 29, 1998 at 18:41:41 (EDT)
As a Bowie fan I get my share of teasing. Currently at work people have been telling me that Bowie was at the gala opening of the new Casino Windsor. Why, I don't know. Could someone confirm or disprove this statement? Thanks.
Madame Sand
Canada - Wednesday, July 29, 1998 at 18:33:16 (EDT)
I haven't seen "After Hours"... I think I made the mistake because when I saw "Into the Night" it reminded me of a third rate "Desperately Seeking Susan," something about the jewels maybe!
Aki (queenvolcano@hotmail.com)
Atlanta, GA USA - Wednesday, July 29, 1998 at 18:16:24 (EDT)
Oi, you there! NITEFLITE: just make sure you tip that man a fiver, lord knows he is strapped for cash....
Skycap KelMar
USA - Wednesday, July 29, 1998 at 17:29:52 (EDT)
ehhh...david, i uh, er, could you watch my bags as i go to the Loo please?
NITEFLITE
NY, NY USA - Wednesday, July 29, 1998 at 17:06:28 (EDT)
At some point during this Nitsch debate some nice person posted a Nitsch press release on the mb where it explained specifically what happens. I can't find it now. The important parts were bolded. Could whoever posted that please repost the relevant (bolded) parts here.- for amiee. Over the past few days I've done a lot of reasearch about this and every description I've read of these performance begins with the animal already dead and strung up. I was also thinking that Nitsch has performed variations of this 'action' nearly 100 times now. So who's to say that Bowie hasn't attended before? In the news section there appeared a photo of Bowie and Nitsch together from '95 so.... Also for those of you who argue 'It's not art.' Take a look at Nitsch's biography on his 'site. His work appears in the permanent collections of just about every important museum on the planet. Art credentials get no better than that. D.S.
D.S.
SF, USA - Wednesday, July 29, 1998 at 14:04:23 (EDT)
Ahh Dara the voice of reason. Well put sir. I just think of Cat Stevens before he converted to Islam (kids go ask your parents who Cat Stevens is if your young). He denies all of his previous song writing before converting. He is very extreme and agrees that Salmon Rushdie should be executed. i still like his songs, but his and my views are polar opposites. as for trophie hunting I could'nt agree with you more Aimee. animals were not put on the Earth to boost the ego of some RED Neck Cloven Hoofed Maniac.
NITEFLITE
NY, NY USA - Wednesday, July 29, 1998 at 09:57:23 (EDT)
Nicely put, Dara, as usual!!! I'm so glad people had so mnay wonderful things to say about this issue.... I for one, learned a lot from all opinions involved.(BTW, Aki, it was Michelle Pfieffer)
KelMar
USA - Wednesday, July 29, 1998 at 09:37:28 (EDT)
It was Michelle Pfeiffer in "Into the Night." Arquette was in "After Hours" which was similar, but Bowie-less. As for Nitsch, where did you read that the animals were dead? On Nitsch's site, as I recall, it was claimed that animals were NOT from a slaughterhouse, and specifically said that their lives were BETTER than slaughterhouse animals. It also said that the animals would be sedated before their killing, but I don't remember the site saying the animals would be killed prior to the "performance." And, just for the record, I do think trophy hunting should be illegal. If you're gonna feed your family with it that's one thing, but if you just want a really nice coat or a head on the wall...
aimee
USA - Wednesday, July 29, 1998 at 09:37:16 (EDT)
I just read the Vancouver report on "Exhuming Mr. Rice" and even if it's being billed as a children's film, it does sound light years removed from, say, Labyrinth. More reminiscent of "The Hunger" if anything.
I'm not sure how valid the comparison of what Nitsch is doing to 'commonplace' things like "beating people to a pulp, rape, torture, murder", because all of those things are clearly criminal, whereas the slaughter of animals by professional butchers happens every day with the implicit condonement of everyone who eats meat or buys a belt. Also, if killing animals for entertainment is wrong, then don't we have to also condemn all legalised hunting? And to ensure that only people who hate their job can be butchers? If there's a danger a butcher might derive actual enjoyment from his job, should he lose his license to butcher? Also: thanks to DS for pointing out what I still feel most of the anti-Nitschers are missing about this whole thing - the animals are not being slaughtered "just for entertainment (or Art)". Aki: I know a feeling of connection to Bowie as a person is the basis of a lot of people's fandom, particularly many of the more hardcore fans, but not mine. As I keep saying to Bonster, for me, it's all about the music for me. From what I know of him, I like Bowie as a person and I seem to share most of his views, but that's strictly a bonus. If Bowie did something I utterly disapproved of (like bombing an abortion clinic), the strongest reaction I'd be likely to have is to stop taking his non-music-related opinions seriously, and maybe stop hanging around sites like this, but I'd go on buying his albums. Also, are you sure Rosanna Arquette was in "Into The Night"? I thought it was Michelle Pfeiffer.

Dara
Ireland - Wednesday, July 29, 1998 at 05:15:49 (EDT)
philly fans- just found this little tidbit: An Evening of David Bowie music---Bowie fans unite! Dance to, listen to and Discussion of the Music of David Bowie. Some rareties. Wednesday 9/16, 9 pm to 2 am. This event is part of the phila fringe festival and will be held at Jake and Oliver's, 22 S. 3rd St. Phila...event is $ 7.00. for more info: gasheart@aol.com who is interested in attending?
patti (pattibowie@aol.com)
philly, - Wednesday, July 29, 1998 at 03:12:58 (EDT)
D.S.-big wet one right back at ya...why don't you email me. :-)
patti (pattibowie@aol.com)
- Wednesday, July 29, 1998 at 01:21:49 (EDT)
Just to be bloody-minded I'd like to make an argument here against some of the pro-Nitschian statements like "I'd listen to Bowie even if he was a serial killer." My position: his attendence at the slaughter play does not bother me in the slightest. In fact I think it's kind of cool. But if he suddenly became a born-again christian and started doing fundraising for Pat Buchanan, boy would I feel different. I think it's not so easy to separate Bowie-as-public-persona from "just the music." To take a less extreme example... a lot of serious fans stopped listening to Bowie in the late 80s. People not only talk about this in terms of "oh his albums were awful" but also in connection with feeling disappointed in him as a person. I think it wasnt just because his music was awful then, but also because of his public persona... he wasn't doing interesting music and he wasnt doing interesting things either. In fact, he tried to deny a lot of the interesting things he did in the seventies. People who felt identification with the kind of lifestyle he had been leading, the artistic movements he was into, etc. were bound to feel hurt! I know there are tons of people who don't care at all about Bowie's life or just know that it's vaguely freaky and rockstarish and just enjoy some of his music, but among serious fans, the more you know about his life and where the music at a certain point came from, the more fascinating it is. And this maybe increases the temptation of holding him to your personal moral standards. I mean, the Microsoft ad definitely hurt me. It doesnt ruin "Heroes" for me but I do have to expend a bit of mental effort not to remember that it was used to advertised Microsoft. If Bowie did something that really pissed me off, like bomb an abortion clinic (ok im really stretching here) the amount of mental effort I'd have to spend would be even greater and greater and maybe reach the point where I would have to remember Bowie as he used to be, pre-abortion clinic bombing (that is, his previous life and its connection with his previous music) rather than as someone who is actually living. I have enormous enthusiasm for many authors, artists filmmakers and so on whose political positions and personalities are absolutely repugnant to me... but this always enters, somehow, often ironically, into my appreciation of their work. And because of the degree of identification I have with Bowie's public figure -- I can't think of any other artist-type I've spent so much damn money on, that's one indication -- I have a feeling it would enter into my appreciation very, very negatively. Thankfully I don't see that happening... it's easy for me to respect Bowie, and i think most of his views are pretty solidly fixed, at his age of 51 (not to say his music is, of course). Hey, I realize I've just constructed a vastly overblown defense for being such a slobbering fan... hehe... he's "MY DAVID" dammit!
Aki (queenvolcano@hotmail.com)
Atlanta, GA USA - Tuesday, July 28, 1998 at 22:09:17 (EDT)
Dear Bowie Fan: "Into the Night" es una pelicula con Jeff Goldblum y Rosanna Arquette. Bowie tiene un papel muy corto, como un asesino. La pelicula es de mierda, probablemente lo peor de todas sus peliculas en mi opinion, pero vale la pena si eres obsesivo/a. Puedes encontrarlo y alquilerlo facilmente en este pais. Espero que tengas una buena viaje.
Aki (queenvolcano@hotmail.com)
Atlanta, GA USA - Tuesday, July 28, 1998 at 22:07:58 (EDT)
Yo. This discussion about the Nitsch event is fascinating however I'd like to clear up a few things. The animals are dead before the performance begins. The killing is performed by butchers from the local slaughterhouse -which is also where the animals are from. The already dead animals are THEN displayed and eviscerated in front of an audience. So, no killing occurs onstage. The animals who were previously headed for the Krups bratwurst-o-matic machine are instead butchered in a theatrical setting. The performance residue includes costumes, paintings made with the blood and photo documentation which are later displayed in a formal (gallery) setting. I don't have any problem whatsoever with this work. --Oh, and a big wet one for patti!! D.S.
D.S.
Right here, USA - Tuesday, July 28, 1998 at 20:29:33 (EDT)
Hola! Tengo un pregunta, mean, in US i am going to in July 30, what is "INTO THE NIGHT" con Bowie? Please leave answer here. Gracias.
Bowie Fan
Mexico City, Mexico - Tuesday, July 28, 1998 at 19:55:13 (EDT)
Well Donny - thank god Spidey lets you on that computer occasionally !!! :-) Well said !!!
Jeaj (jeej@globalnet.co.uk)
Falkirk, BONNIE SCOTLAND - Tuesday, July 28, 1998 at 19:27:08 (EDT)
Re: All these art discussions. What did you all think about the result of the Coupe the Monde 1998? BIGGIE (mixing yet another molotov widow)
BIGbruddah
Analrumpa, SWEDEN - Tuesday, July 28, 1998 at 18:04:42 (EDT)
Well said, Donny!
Kali
USA - Tuesday, July 28, 1998 at 17:20:55 (EDT)
Donny, well spoken!! :-) You've summed up some of my very own reservations against the Nitsch-venture!
And for those who want too provocative yet harmless art, please visit this gentleman's site

Bew (mrness@online.no)
Norway - Tuesday, July 28, 1998 at 16:07:06 (EDT)
It has been very itellectually refreshing that we have been loooking and learning from everyone's opinion about our subjective views of art. It's challenging, but everyone is listening to everyone. So many things to discuss. For an automatic gut reaction to be disgusted by something is usually a reflex. Just when anything catches you off gaurd. Upon closer examination we may not be so "afraid" or turned off by it. No need to rush to judgement. As for the Jon benet ramsey piece--I find it extremely distasteful that little girls are dressed to pagent around in tight outfits and make up by their parents. they might just as well be putting them in porno. The values these children are learning are look sexy for people and you can have so much (which in society is true, but lets not start them off so young. But this artist may have been an opportunist and did use it for sensationalism. It does present a great opportunity, but then again so does so much out their. As for who makes these big decisions on what is tasteful etc. that is a very good questions. For the T.V. shows the consumer. For art??? hmm Critics, Gallery Owners, NEA, Artists themdelves, Consumers,...I realley don't think that can be answered, but that is more to think about...
NITEFLITE
NY, NY USA - Tuesday, July 28, 1998 at 15:59:20 (EDT)
I think I got lost in my own borage of thoughts. I'll allow them to stew a bit longer....
aimee
USA - Tuesday, July 28, 1998 at 15:39:53 (EDT)
Ranc- What you are telling me is just what I've been saying in my posts below.... I think you've mistaken me.......
KelMar
USA - Tuesday, July 28, 1998 at 15:05:14 (EDT)
Aimee- art is bigger than just one or two kinds of fruit. We are actually comparing mangos and plantains.
KelMar
USA - Tuesday, July 28, 1998 at 15:03:19 (EDT)
Kel, aims, you can't mandate the standard of speech "Men Behaving Badly" or Picasso get. Sure, you can subject them to a different level of analysis. And speech can be regulated as to time, manner and place--the old "you can't yell fire in a crowded theater" standard. But there is nothing wrong with saying "Guernica" is trash and "Men Behaving Badly" is a glorious triumph. It may not be sane, but it certainly can be said. I do not understand why saying that "the slaughter is stupid" apparently connotes here to many that soundly criticizing art jeopardizes its existence. And I surely don't agree that a hands-off approach to anything in respect of its (self-proclaimed or government-sanctioned) status serves anyone, artists included. Lisa Robinson writes about Bowienet in the NY Post (and her syndicated column) today, BTW.
rancell
NYC, NY USA - Tuesday, July 28, 1998 at 15:02:50 (EDT)
Donny -- you've hit the nail right on the head, in my opinion. That's where my objection is, too, although my mind was too jumbled to word it as you have. Killing animals for entertainment, yes, that's where the wrong is. AS FOR OUR ARGUMENT ON THE STANDARDS BY WHICH ART SHOULD BE MEASURED, I have to answer with another question: who are the judges of art? Who is art for, and -- ultimately -- what is the purpose of art? It seems to me that maybe KelMar and rancell aren't doing an "apples to apples" comparison, if you know what I mean. If an episode of "Men Behaving Badly" didn't air because a housewife in Nebraska was offended by it's peculiar brand of toilet humor, is that the same as not allowing Andy Warhol's piss paintings to appear the National Gallery because they're perceived as being in poor taste? (examples are made-up!) Who decides?
aimee
USA - Tuesday, July 28, 1998 at 14:44:33 (EDT)
Dammit, in my effort to answer, I made spelling error.P-R-O-V-O-C-A-T-I-V-E
KelMar
USA - Tuesday, July 28, 1998 at 13:24:52 (EDT)
To Rancell's questions "So what if art gets subjected to the same sorts of criticisms? You surely aren't saying that art deserves a different standard?" Answer: In a ideal world YES... Art is something which should be held to a different standard. Isn't that part of the point of having art in all of its glorious forms, to spark the mind and imagination? Cause people to debate and discuss things they never would have dreamed of talking about before? To be provacative, and somewhat dangerous? That's what I thought anyway....And while we're on the subject, I too, love the debate here, and I might mention that I am not a meat eater. I am simply in the spirit of debate.
KelMar
USA - Tuesday, July 28, 1998 at 13:22:57 (EDT)
Spider has finally gotten off the computer for long enough to allow me a chance to have 5 mins on it ;-) and I just want to say with regards to this Nitsch issue.....I’m not a vegetarian myself, so I don’t have a problem with the humane killing of animals for food.......what I do have a problem with is the killing of animals being treated as ‘entertainment’, which it appears to be in this case....... that’s what I find so disturbing :-( And to say that Art mirrors life, and that the killing of animals is part of life, I don’t find as any justification for this......beating people to a pulp, rape, torture, murder!!! these all happen in life too...…..would it be OK for this to be carried out in public - on stage in the name of Art????? I don’t think so. I think you have to draw a line somewhere, and this goes beyond it (IMHO), what will be next else? How will these people get their next ‘thrill’ ????
Donny (datkins@netcoumuk.co.uk)
UK - Tuesday, July 28, 1998 at 13:16:11 (EDT)
LittleWonderer, I think that was just an omission on my part. My version is definitely not a picture disc; I had just forgotten to make it clear that there was a limited edition of that release which WAS a picture disc; so it comes in two versions apparently. I would love to do a comprehensive versions/country of release type discography, but I fear the information is almost impossible to collate without having access to the record companies' vaults and databases.

Reinhold, the lyric of the day is completely random. It's like they say though, if you let a 1000 monkeys type for a 1000 years, eventually they're bound to end up producing a replica of Shakespeare's Hamlet... or, in the more everyday sense perhaps; if you read your horoscope every day of the year, eventually you're bound to find something which correlates with your real life.
Evan Torrie (torrie@etete.com)
Stanford, CA USA - Tuesday, July 28, 1998 at 13:04:03 (EDT)


The beauty of airing opinions openly, including so-called extreme views, is that it clears the way for consensus. It's what is happening here, sort of. Sometimes, a middle ground can come out under its own momentum, even if it's only live-and-let-live, or we-agree-to-disagree. There's much worse endings to ardent disagreement. Maybe we should keep this up, and we can solve the abortion debate, and pollution problems, and arms proliferation, and welfare spending, and ... But I must say, Kel, that judgments about what is "bad" and what is "wrong" are made about people and institutions all the time. So what if art gets subjected to the same sorts of criticisms? You surely aren't saying that art deserves a different standard? The declaration that the slaughter is a festival over several days designed to demonstrate something or other doesn't mean that we have to stand back and say, "Whoa, whoa, wait a minute, this is guy is an artist." People may have snap judgments and gut reactions. That's not wrong, nor is it automatically ignorant or prudish or censorous. In this case, for many, the reaction is a deeply held belief that meat is murder.
rancell
NYC, NY USA - Tuesday, July 28, 1998 at 13:00:23 (EDT)
NITEFLITE -- thanks for commenting on my last post. It's really great to know that we can argue, yet still respect and (gulp!) even LIKE eachother. I really am enjoying your contributions, you know!
aimee
USA - Tuesday, July 28, 1998 at 12:52:22 (EDT)
This Nitsch thing has sparked some of the best debate I've seen on this GB in the two years I've been here! (I'm sure DB would be pleased with the intellectual level of his fans!) While I'm still vehemently against the killing of the animals, even I've been questioning whether or not art has or needs limitations. My own personal belief is has always been that everything is cool until someone gets hurt, but I'm still wondering....as artists, how far are any of us prepared to go? How far CAN we go in the name of art? An incident comes to mind where an art student painted JonBenet Ramsey on a wall with a caption reading "Daddy's Little Whore." Poor taste, unquestionably. But was is just sensationalism, or was he so moved by the injustice in the way that little girl was paraded around that he really felt he had to create that painting? Do you see where I'm going with this?
aimee
USA - Tuesday, July 28, 1998 at 12:50:13 (EDT)
I don't recall that. I recall Ed Gein making furniture from people ( as a serial killer, not an artist). Refresh my memory please.
KelMar
USA - Tuesday, July 28, 1998 at 12:02:02 (EDT)
Are you saying that the making of Lamp Shades and Gloves out of human skin was not wrong or bad? They displayed it as art did they not.
Tracy Carter
- Tuesday, July 28, 1998 at 11:56:42 (EDT)
Art is not meant to appeal to everyone, I think some of us have lost site of that. Just because you may disagree with an artform does not make it WRONG or BAD. If a person feels that a particular form of art is BAD or WRONG, then they should stick to watching television, where there is such a thing as BAD and WRONG, and people stop doing great things because of folks kvetching about what is right and wrong. And by saying this I am not implying that certain people are BAD or WRONG, I'm just saying they need to reconsider the issue of ART. (And for those who didn't get it, the k.d.lang, Chrissie Hyde thing was a joke. Stop mailing me about it already.) :-)
KelMar
USA - Tuesday, July 28, 1998 at 11:04:53 (EDT)
Well, about the 1966 cd. The link that was for the cd said it was a limited release picture disc, but on the cd it just has the listing of the song titles and who sings them, (ie Bowie and the Lower Third). Sorry if I seem kinda dumb about all this, but I just inherited my older sister's collection of Bowie stuff when she went to college, and I found this only recently. So, I really need help from all of the "experts" (meant as a GOOD thing) here @ TW. Which means I may have more questions in the future, if y'all don't mind.
Little Wonderer
USA - Tuesday, July 28, 1998 at 08:58:53 (EDT)
Yes I agree, Dara, there was namehtrowing and over-reactions on both sides. I can only speak for myself, and those few I know what intentions were. Regrettably, it's often the case here on the GB when there's a debate with strong opinions, that someone plays the man instead of the ball.
Bew (mrness@online.no)
Norway - Tuesday, July 28, 1998 at 07:55:49 (EDT)
Evan: Is the lyric of the day pure coincidence or is some manipulation involved?
Reinhold
- Tuesday, July 28, 1998 at 07:53:16 (EDT)
Actually, Rex, I think you and Aimee are in a minority, as are the pro-Nitschers. I suspect the vast majority of people are in the "don't give a shit" category like me and as Evan said, the only way to register that is not to vote. So far just over 2% of the registered users have voted "not to Nitsch".
Tony
England - Tuesday, July 28, 1998 at 07:12:23 (EDT)
What was your question about the 1966 CD, Little Wonderer? Bewlay: I think there was over-reaction and name-calling on both sides of the Nitsch debate. I seem to recall someone on the anti-Nitsch side suggesting the counter-view to theirs was 'naive', somebody else suggesting Bowie's end was near as a result and calling him a 'pompous ass', and somebody else saying if Bowie goes through with this, they would lose all respect for him as a human being.
Dara
Ireland - Tuesday, July 28, 1998 at 04:40:07 (EDT)
The day criticism is confused with censorship, is the day things have turned very wrong indeed. Criticism can be, and should be meant to be, a constructive part of a debate. Unfortunately, there have been tendencies during the animal-debate to dismiss those people who have criticized this project as "fanatics" and other less flattering terms. I don't think any of us have ever called out for Nitsch's venture to be banned or censored, yet it seems by some of the postings here that people think that's what we want. The irony is of course that to just flat-out dismiss any critics from a debate IS censorship!
Bew (mrness@online.no)
Norway - Tuesday, July 28, 1998 at 02:46:23 (EDT)
Aimee, go to the registered voter page, you are not in the minority. Current vote is to 59 to 110 against the art slaughter.
Rex Leetham
USA - Tuesday, July 28, 1998 at 01:11:45 (EDT)
that is very good point to be brought up about censorship v. critism aimee. I agree wholeheartedly with that idea. they are different and I guess I ( not speaking for anyone but me) may have mistook critism for a harsher opinion. It just seemed that so many people were apalled about this animal thing and seemed to be aiming there critism at bowie for supporting it. I felt it was a little unjustly harsh attacks at him for his choices. People are generally stereotyped, attacked, and pigeoned holed for their decisions, and to see that happening on this page was just nauseating. So I do respect your opinion, but maybe not support it the whole thing has little impact on me. In a forum like this one can hope for open mindedness, and tolerence.
NITEFLITE
NY, NY USA - Monday, July 27, 1998 at 18:30:56 (EDT)
Wonder if I could have gotten a few more type-o's in that one...
aimee
USA - Monday, July 27, 1998 at 17:39:57 (EDT)
REX -- Thanks for the vote of confidence, but my energy is fading on this issue. I've been a veg (and other contraversial things) long enough to know when an arguments futile. I've never expected everyone to agree with me, and what a boring world it would be if everyone did. What concerns me is an issue a friend pointed out: Criticism and censorship are not the same thing. When did we began to perceive them as such? I know my fierce will to protect the animals is being construed as censorship...which isn't my intention at all, but I am anti-censhorsip, believe it or not. However, I'm not anti-criticism. Anyone else have any opinions on this criticism/censorship issue?
aimee
USA - Monday, July 27, 1998 at 17:39:00 (EDT)
thanks gwinny! i will investigate although i do think it is something permanent though...in any case, i think turrell is AMAZING and i am going to p.s.1 next time i go to new york. thanks for the reminder!
patti (pattibowie@aol.com)
philly, - Monday, July 27, 1998 at 15:29:19 (EDT)
After finally catching up with this whole slaughter art thang, it seems to me only people who wear hemp shoes and have vinyl biker jackets can raise a ruckus about this, and I haven't seen k.d. lang OR Chrissie Hynde posting about it. ;-)
KelMar
USA - Monday, July 27, 1998 at 15:08:12 (EDT)
ah back from a retreat in suburbia. Now, that we are past all this business of these slaughterings what is exhibit to represent? Are the animals metaphors for the thousands of people who are lining themselves up to be culturly slaughtered by the dearth of art taken over by televisions. Or are they the culturly disatvantage watched on by the rich folks for their amusement. Or better yet, is it the Clinton adminstration as Kenneth Starr and his band of merry men try to subponea him into telling the people he has committed perjury to the American people and is therefore unfit to serve the rest of his term ? any good theories out there? Let's have a field trip to PS1...
NITEFLITE
NY, NY USA - Monday, July 27, 1998 at 14:58:19 (EDT)
Speaker, in hindsight, yes I should have put an "I abstain cause I don't give a damn" option in there. However, you can always not vote as well, which is equivalent to casting a formal abstain :)

The information on the 1966 album is here.
Evan Torrie (torrie@etete.com)
Stanford, CA USA - Monday, July 27, 1998 at 14:58:16 (EDT)


Okay, Key West Hard Rock Cafe has some Bowie, squeezed in between Lou Reed, and The Stiff Little Fingers(????).... And they play a lot of old Bowie too. Just don't let a guy (ironically named David) wait on you, he is a dick in the truest sense of the word. BTW, if I hear a Jimmy Buffet song performed by some half assed 50 year old drunk guitar player in a bar again as long as I live, I'm whipping out my UZI on the entire place.
KelMar The Actually TAN!!!
USA - Monday, July 27, 1998 at 13:37:50 (EDT)
The subway stop I gave for P.S. 1 was correct. Patti, I can't recall if there is a James Turrell exhibit there now, but if you heard it was in an old school, then it's probably one and the same ; )
Gwinevere (gwinny@aol.com)
New York, NY USA - Monday, July 27, 1998 at 12:49:55 (EDT)
Regarding the Ntisch thingy--- I think Bowie just saw the title of it and decided to show up for the orgy (hehe).
RaMOANa (ramoana@earthling.net)
SunShine State, USA - Monday, July 27, 1998 at 12:12:45 (EDT)
Evan, wasn't it kinda "choosey" of you to allow voters to pick either one or the other in the vote today? What if the voter doesn't really care WHAT Bowie does? It's his own buisness, and probably (Besides some little similarity to Outside) has nothing to do at all with his music. And isn't that why we're all here? Because of his music? And some, I know are here because they're attracted to him, but still, let the man be and stop chastising him for his decisions! He doesn't have to live up to your expectations of him! He's a human being too, and has the right to do as he feels. Anyway, Evan, just thought it was kinda unfair to make us go way or the other.
Speaker of Mind
USA - Monday, July 27, 1998 at 10:41:18 (EDT)
Doesn't ANYBODY know about the "1966" cd??
A Little Wonderer
USA - Monday, July 27, 1998 at 10:35:15 (EDT)
Dear Kim, even if you have made your decision you shoukd know that there are people here who love you.I don't know you but I love you that's for sure.
Leroy (mueller@blinx.de)
Nowhere, - Monday, July 27, 1998 at 10:20:11 (EDT)
Kim, wait, you forgot to quit your hotmail-account
Trevor
NY, NY USA - Monday, July 27, 1998 at 08:36:30 (EDT)
The world has turned against me so now I will turn my back to the world. Life has never granted me my share of happines .I have found love in a dark hole so now i´m ready. Ready to make the final jump perhaps some will say that my decision is wrong but I have never been more sure about anything in my life. I´ve tried being a good man but I was born evil this I know. Day after day I felt my sole and it was dying slowly my shinning eyes have turned white theres no color left. God , there is no person like that your the only masters of your life so be sure that you will have a good one ' cause I didn´t Now the nature calls Bless my sole cause it will never leave
kim jacobsen (merlin29@hotmail.com)
copenhagen, dk Denmark - Monday, July 27, 1998 at 07:45:36 (EDT)
I love him very very very much
yulia
USA - Monday, July 27, 1998 at 06:33:06 (EDT)
I like David Bowie very much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YULIA (MALOW_J@yahoo.com)
samara, russia - Monday, July 27, 1998 at 06:30:58 (EDT)
I wonder if this 'art' will be KOSHER becuase if it won't I tell you he'll have problams with the religious jewish ppl and if they are in the picture he is out of business ;) so if you read this Nitsch, change your art to KOSHER animals if you don't problams with your local Rabbi. ;)
Shai (db1fan@netvision.net.il)
Ramat Gan, ISRAEL - Monday, July 27, 1998 at 06:22:55 (EDT)
Sarah -- you mean that stuff in McDonald's burgers really *IS* meat??
Kali
USA - Monday, July 27, 1998 at 01:20:16 (EDT)
Okay, so maybe I'm going against the norm here, but I don't really see anything all that shocking about this ritualistic killing thing. I think that if we try to stop people from killing these animals, why don't we just shut down the entire meat industry while we're at it. At what point does killing an animal become "murder"? Just because most animals aren't killed in front of an audience and mutilated in the name of "art," thousands of animals are killed every single day so that you can go to McDonalds when you're in a rush home from work. I don't see why this violates animal rights any more than that does. Death is death, no matter how you do it.
SARA (sel.lubbi.beatles@worldnet.att.net)
St. Louis , MO USA - Sunday, July 26, 1998 at 22:30:26 (EDT)
Oh, I forgot to tell you all that I signed up for the Bowie Net service. Starting in Sept. my new e-mail address will be aladdin.sane@davidbowie.com . I have not yet recieved any confirmation details but the sign-up process was painless. I can't wait for the "outsiders" to start asking about my e-mail address and what it means!
Rex
USA - Sunday, July 26, 1998 at 19:40:21 (EDT)
Hey Aimee, good to see you are still as fiesty as ever! I agree with what you've been saying, actually I agree with most of what's been written here about the slaughter/art debate. What I don't understand is how some of these people are turning our opinions into Bowie bashing. Just because we don't agree with his sponsorship of ritualized killing does not mean we respect his talent and music any less. Yes, these animals would be killed anyway, just as many people will be killed on death row over the next year or so. Local communities and cities could sell tickets to these executions and make a public exibition out of it. (Public executions used to be the norm.) We don't do that anymore because we like to think of ourselves as a bit more civilized these days I suppose. Masking these public animal killings behind the art banner smacks of bad taste just as much as masking it behind satanic/religious sacrifice. Bowie has always been one to look for the "shock value" in his art, I suppose this is the next unfortunate step for him. It is a step many of his fans will not take with him. The good thing is we all have the right to our opinions and no one can say who is right and who is wrong. Most of us will choose based on our own personal values and our own concept of what is right and wrong.
Rex Leetham (rexl@xmission.com)
SLC, UT USA - Sunday, July 26, 1998 at 19:31:44 (EDT)
The Bowie fan gathering in Vancouver is right around the corner.... if you've already contacted me to say you are going or are interested in going, i certainly hope this 'meat' thing hasn't changed your mind... If anyone else is interested, there's less than a couple weeks to make plans to go.. Please go to http://www.squeakie.com/bowie/ if you haven't already, to get all the info...
sQueaK (squeakie@squeakie.com)
Vancouver, BC Canada - Sunday, July 26, 1998 at 15:14:01 (EDT)
Latest edition of my newsletter out this weekend. I've been getting a lot of bounce backs from unknown users or people with full mailboxes, so just a genle reminder that if you close an email account, please send me an unsubscribe message. And for anyone who wants to Subscribe, the address is still bowie_news@hotmail.com, and you can now access an archive of all the old newsletters at http://www.angelfire.com/al/bowienews/. Love on ya!
Andrew Stewart (bowie_news@hotmail.com)
USA - Sunday, July 26, 1998 at 06:32:20 (EDT)
Latest edition of my newsletter out this weekend. I've been getting a lot of bounce backs from unknown users or people with full mailboxes, so just a genle reminder that if you close an email account, please send me an unsubscribe message. And for anyone who wants to Subscribe, the address is still http://www.angelfire.com/al/bowienews/. Love on ya!
Andrew Stewart (bowie_news@hotmail.com)
USA - Sunday, July 26, 1998 at 06:31:41 (EDT)
This site really sucks! HEHEHE JUST KIDDING! This is the most interesting David Bowie page, I have ever been too. Unfortuanatly.....MINES BETTER!!! http://www.geocities.com/broadway/stage/2168 MUAHAHAHAA!
Archanon Spaceboy (archanon@earthling.net)
Melbourne, Fl USA - Saturday, July 25, 1998 at 21:50:42 (EDT)
Hi, I just bought the CD "1966" in a used CD store. I wanted to find out some info about it, since I've never seen it in any of the big music stores I go to. Thanks.
A Little Wonderer
USA - Saturday, July 25, 1998 at 13:40:00 (EDT)
Twiggy, the answer you are looking for is Yellowbeard
Helen2
USA - Saturday, July 25, 1998 at 12:14:46 (EDT)
SOMEBODY HELP ME-I WENT TO GO DO THAT BOWIE CONTEST AT BOWIENET AND THERE WAS LIKE ONLY ONE QUESTION I DIDN'T KNOW: WHAT MONTY PYTHONE MOVIE DID BOWIE APPEARE IN?????????????!!!!!!!!! HELP!
Twiggy (Hazynerk@aol.com)
USA - Saturday, July 25, 1998 at 00:11:49 (EDT)
I just recently found out about the whole "animal art show" thing which Bowie is taking a very active part in. Even though the idea disgusts me and I would never consider doing such a thing, I still tend to take the overall view that I like his music and I really don't give a rat's butt what he does during his spare time. With many other things he does/did I still take this view point(i.e. his sexuality, his language, etc.). I think that more than likely the animals (what were they pigs, etc?) will be used for things other than just the art. It wouldn't be a sanitary, nor would the animal rights activists stand for it, if it were done otherwise. To state a persoanl opinion, I wish Bowie wouldn't take part in the whole thing no matter how inspirational the art seems, but then I must return to my original statement: it's his spare time, and obvisiously Iman really doens't care.
Heather (Hazynerk@aol.com)
........, CA USA - Saturday, July 25, 1998 at 00:04:34 (EDT)
hey gwinny...is there a james turrell installation at PS1 also...or am i thinking of another place? i love his work and heard something about there being a piece in an old school somewhere. thanks!
patti (pattibowie@aol.com)
- Friday, July 24, 1998 at 17:08:49 (EDT)
Last time I went to P.S. 1, I actually was in a car...but if memory serves, it's just a few blocks away from the 1st stop in Queens on the E and F (23rd Street - Ely Avenue). I'll confirm this on Monday once I've had the chance to look it up.
Gwinevere (Gwinny@aol.com)
New York, NY USA - Friday, July 24, 1998 at 16:59:19 (EDT)
To whoever said this a few days ago....Spacehog is great, and they put on an excellent show. :-)
SARA (sel.lubbi.beatles@worldnet.att.net)
USA - Friday, July 24, 1998 at 15:13:05 (EDT)
Gwinny...Thanks for the tip to all us NY people. Where is PS1? How could I get there from Manhattan?
aimee
USA - Friday, July 24, 1998 at 14:51:13 (EDT)
Rancell, I would've emailed you this but you don't seem to post your address: I haven't been the the exhibit you mentioned, but if you have an interest in contemporary art, you (and anyone else in NYC) should check out P.S. 1 in Queens. It's a really cool place...and they have a few Tony Oursler pieces too (you know, the guy who did the video-projection "dummies" for DB's last tour - - though they seem to have fewer pieces now than they did in January).
Gwinevere (Gwinny@aol.com)
New York, NY USA - Friday, July 24, 1998 at 12:13:26 (EDT)
Slowly but surely, the Bowie-rips-off-Reznor-in-desperation myth has been evaporating. Trent himself has done a lot in interviews (like Raygun last year, noting that he is happy merely that Bowie takes his calls). A very interesting article in yesterday's NY Times called "In Pop Music, Failure's Hard but Success Can Be Worse," by Neil Strauss (about the difficulty Reznor, Dr. Dre, and Axl Rose have had in coming up with something–anything–to follow up their past successes) provides a road map as to where Reznor would like to go, though the article makes it clear that he is having his difficulties. The article (not on the web as far as I can tell, but available in full text on AOL) said: "Like Rose, Reznor is no longer working with most of the musicians who appeared on his last album. Instead, he has been recording with guitarist Adrian Belew (of King Crimson), keyboardist Mike Garson (of David Bowie's band), producer Steve Albini (Big Black) and two different percussionists, Bill Rieflin (Ministry) and Tony Thompson (Chic and Power Station )." I prefer to think of Adrian Belew as an artist who has done his best work with Bowie. And while Tony Thompson isn't well-known as a Bowie drummer, he certainly collaborated with Bowie (along with the rest of Chic) in a big way back when we all were much younger. How long will it be before the Spin-types (i.e., those determined in the 90s to discredit Bowie) are forced to write that Bowie's influence is ruining Trent's career? The fact is, Trent is smarter than his fans and his critical hagiographers, because he knows his music wouldn't exist if Bowie hadn't done it all before.
rancell
NYC, NY USA - Friday, July 24, 1998 at 11:12:38 (EDT)
SHAI -- Write to me here!!! EVERYONE ELSE -- This is an interesting debate, and I'd like to make it clear that I'm not going anti-Bowie on everyone. Like Bew, I'm just exercising my right to disagreee with my favourite artist.
aimee (akessler@phillips.com)
USA - Friday, July 24, 1998 at 11:09:20 (EDT)
Oh please, save us the art illuminati arguments. Killing other living things is outright wrong! You humans are supposedly the higher intelligence ... sit on my karam indeed. baa ram uuu
Elsie The Cow (coming_soon_to_your_plate@beef.com)
Abattoir, USA - Friday, July 24, 1998 at 11:08:35 (EDT)
Hmm, there's something naive about the argument that as the animals would have been killed anyway, it's OK to do it as part of this circus. But I don't want to prolong the debate - especially not if it's turning into an "anti-David" debate. That wasn't anyone's intention I think. I remain as ever a faithful fan, though I reserve the right to not care so much for everything he does. Like now
And by all means, I follow your other points, Dara. I happen to buy the albums of that other guy called Manson because I like the music, but he's not exactly the sort of person I'd invite home for dinner. ;-)

Bew (mrness@online.no)
Norway - Friday, July 24, 1998 at 07:06:50 (EDT)
to all the Israeli fans (as you don't know it already). tonight on 22:00 at the Tel Aviv "Cinematek" 2 Bowie movies. "The Man Who Fell To Earth" & The "Hunger" hope to see you all there.
Shai Shamir (db1fan@netvision.net.il)
Ramat Gan, ISRAEL - Friday, July 24, 1998 at 05:43:11 (EDT)
I find the strength of the counter-reaction to the Nitsch thing difficult to comprehend. These animals are not being slaughtered 'just' for the art show, as some people here seem to think. These are animals that would be slaughtered for food purposes anyway (and they will still be used for those purposes) - all that's happening is the venue of their demise is being shifted from the slaughterhouse to Nitsch's castle, and their deaths are being used for artistic purposes. From what I've read, they'll be slaughtered more humanely than is normally the case (and having personally visited a slaughterhouse once, let me tell you there are few more harrowing experiences), and their lives up to this point are better than most of their animal peers these days. Is it really better to just quietly condone the slaughter of animals in abominable conditions in slaughter-houses while simultaneously condemning an art piece which adds a symbolic artistic element of the relationship between eater and eaten? Bottom line - if Nitsch wasn't having this show, and Bowie wasn't supporting it, these animals would have died anyway and none of us would have given the matter further thought. Art is supposaed to provoke and cause us to think about the issues being dealt with, and on those terms, Nitsch's piece is already a success.
Also, I agree with Niteflite that any choices Bowie makes (even those I strongly disagree with) don't impact on my enjoyment of his music. To put it another way, if Charles Manson made records as good as Bowie does, I'd buy them.
Also, if there are any Dubliners looking to buy a copy of the excellent Goth tribute album "The Dark Side Of David Bowie", I spotted one in Tower Records in Wicklow Street.

Dara
Ireland - Friday, July 24, 1998 at 05:30:46 (EDT)
Here are some of my thoughts that came to mind after following the Nitsch discussion:
Killing animals is not murder! You can murder only humans.
There are no innocent animals! Animals don't have ethics and don't live by moral standards. Therefore they can't be innocent or guilty.
Art is defined as an act of creation, even destruction is a creative process. Aesthetics is not involved in that process.
Art as its best has to be irritating, this Nitsch orgy (orgy in its classical definition as feast of the senses) is irritating. Humans may be bestial but animals are not human.
If people don't comprehend they flee into myths.
I always thought that my fellow Bowie fans would know about their good and evil sides. After reading some of their comments I'm not sure anymore. Explore your evil side. Recommended viewing: David Lynch films (except Dune)
I miss a certain spirituality in these fans. If you critizise Bowie with words like "sucks", "fuck", "sick" etc. you´ve got a poor understanding. It may be excused if you´re still going to a US high-school ;-)
If you are one of these fans who said last week that Bowie is God and today you try to tell us that Bowie sucks it reminds me of "hosianna" on a sunday and "cruzify" on a friday.

Reinhold
- Friday, July 24, 1998 at 04:34:58 (EDT)
Nitelife, cutting off Bowie is not the issue here - I doubt anyone could do that, and it wouldn't really be meaningful. What some of us are doing is basically expressing our disappointment with his involvement in this project. He has always gone his own way, and we all admire him for it. But that doesn't mean we have to like/support everything he does.
Bew (mrness@hioslo.no)
Mind-Warp Pavilion, Norway - Friday, July 24, 1998 at 03:48:04 (EDT)
I BET EVAN IS BOWIEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
CRAZED FAN
USA - Thursday, July 23, 1998 at 23:03:19 (EDT)
David Bowie is a musical genious. Who else in music history has the ability to still dazzle the rock world with experimental ground-breaking music? David Bowie will always remain ageless.
Laurie Ritchie (lritchie@hedinc.ca)
Winnipeg, Mb Canada - Thursday, July 23, 1998 at 22:05:00 (EDT)
Just poking my nose in to wish Ramona a happy birthday, sweetie.
daddy-o
USA - Thursday, July 23, 1998 at 19:12:52 (EDT)
And, Gwin, have you been to Peter Beard's exhibit on Broome St.? It's quite a trip. He painted extensively with his own blood and used decayed and decomposing African animals extensively in his art. And perhaps animal blood, though I don't recall precisely. There is a famous picture of him making his journal entries (often blood-dipped) while lying in the mouth of a dead, partially gutted crocodile. The difference: Beard's art is not exploitive ... and Beard is an unrelenting self promoter. But you don't need pages of rambling explanations to justify its existence. Occasionally it is silly, but often it's beautiful and moving.
rancell
NYC, NY USA - Thursday, July 23, 1998 at 17:46:24 (EDT)
Aimee: i have more faith in you than you might believe, and I do understand where you are comming from. I just hate reading that people here are ready to cut off Bowie because they do not agree with his choices. He is not a paper doll we dress in our imagine of how we want him to be. He is not a diety who we must praise because he strikes a chord with us through his music. He is a man with eccentric taste, a great voice, lots of talent, and a good haircut. Lets recognize that we may not all agree with him. His music is still great. Gotta go until tomorrow I'll be spending the rest of nite trying to remove my head from my ass since I don't no anything about this subject...Toodalooo
NITEFLITE
NY, NY USA - Thursday, July 23, 1998 at 17:13:28 (EDT)
Aquaria is right about other artists having used blood in their art; Joseph Beuys was using rabbit's blood in his artwork in the 40's and 50's. As far as this current debate is concerned, I'm not yet sure how I feel about either the "orgy" OR Bowie's involvement in it. (Isn't Yoko Ono involved as well?) I guess I'm hoping that more details will come to light which will clarify the latter.
Gwinevere (gwinny@aol.com)
New York, NY USA - Thursday, July 23, 1998 at 17:10:26 (EDT)
lyric of the day : "There'll be some blood no doubt about it But we'll come thru don't doubt it" I wonder if this was automaticly picked or Evan chose it.
Shai Shamir (db1fan@netvision.net.il)
Ramat Gan, ISRAEL - Thursday, July 23, 1998 at 16:41:53 (EDT)
I wonder if any of you who find this slaughter performance horrendously inhumane have ever been to a slaughterhouse or lived on a farm. They don't waste time with sedatives usually. These animals he'll be using as art would find the same fate if he didn't kill them, so the only difference is the 2000 gawking audience members and painting with the blood. And as for the blood thing, many artists use deer and cow blood as a medium. I am not saying I would want to watch this performance art, but I think he has the right to express himself.
Aquaria
USA - Thursday, July 23, 1998 at 16:32:07 (EDT)
Niteflite, you noted: "We have to turn to the arts. That is why it is necessary not to judge Nitsch, just because it does not sit well with us." Really? It's not necessary to judge? Well, then can anything hide behind the rubric of art and thereby justify itself? Of course not. You know and we all know that art can be as awful and demeaning and silly and as big a waste of time as any bad entertainment, TV or otherwise. Ignoring it because you have a strong, bad reaction to it strikes me as a cop out. It's when the bad reaction takes the form of censorship that you should be worried. The reaction that these criticisms will lead to more censorship is wrong--though I'll concede that such arguments about bad art often go that way. Artists, in fact, would do a lot better arguing that government funding enhances art--they would have to say "good" art so Republicans could understand what they mean--instead of screeching that their own important projects have been killed off. When people here at TW write that that pompous web site devoted to this stuff is wrong and stupid and awful, it's an appropriate reaction. (And though reasonable people around here differ, I found that Web site self-aggrandizing, self-important, ponderous and profane, and I'm no vegan.) I wish Bowie thought as critically about art as Aimee and Bew did.
rancell
NYC, NY USA - Thursday, July 23, 1998 at 16:27:02 (EDT)
Anyone who seriously thinks a trivial matter like this will be the end of Bowie needs an emergeny brain transplant.
Jim
USA - Thursday, July 23, 1998 at 16:16:52 (EDT)
He does not aimee, his head is so far up his ass on this. Look at his comment about Pro Life being "hard core".
Tony
- Thursday, July 23, 1998 at 16:13:34 (EDT)
NITEFLITE: I'm with you on nearly all of this, but I think we have to draw a line at killing things. I think that's an artist's only responsibility. I agree that a committee labling art "indecent" is a frightening concept...that all goes back to the Mapplethorpe thing back in '89/'90. Just because it offends people doesn't make it bad art. In my book, there is no such thing as bad art, and because art is completely subjective, I don't think anyone has the right to say what is or isn't art, even. It's just that little animal slaughter thing that's REALLY bugging me here. Do you understand where I'm coming from at all here?
aimee
USA - Thursday, July 23, 1998 at 16:07:47 (EDT)
One more statement concearning this "murder" aspect of animals. Everyone who is offended by this "murdering" of animals, Are you all pro-Life that hardcore?
NITEFLITE
NY, NY USA - Thursday, July 23, 1998 at 15:42:50 (EDT)
Honestly, I don't know if I like this kind of art or would go to support it. But I do not want to condem it, because it is so out there. Artists has taken a serious blows in recent weeks in the US. Congress has passed a law that if an artist's art is to receive public funding via the NEA it must be deemed decent. If the Supreme court supports congress this could lead to evential end of public funds for Artists. What is decent and who will make these decisions? We are television society here in the US, and the majority of peoples misconception of moralities is churned out by big corporate advertisers. If a corporate advertisement will not support a television show because a character is not stereotypically nice i.e. (gay, junkie, poor, illiterate, atheisistic, non-patriatic, small breased, or just plain not good looking enough) where can we get our "real" views of a very real word. Certainly not ABC, NBC, CBS, UPN, FOX, CNN, etc.... We have to turn to the arts. That is why it is necessary not to judge Nitsch, just because it does not sit well with us. There used to be a time when I would be very offended by this type of art. Luckily I take a clear look at the big picture and it's limitless. And we are so lucky to have the free will to choose what we want to look at to ignore what we don't want to. And through my own disclaimer if any of this I write offends anyone just ignore it.
NITEFLITE
NY, NY USA - Thursday, July 23, 1998 at 15:39:29 (EDT)
Well said, Bew.
aimee
USA - Thursday, July 23, 1998 at 15:35:34 (EDT)
The Suffragette Sessions sponsored by the Indigo Girls and featuring Gail Ann Dorsey, among others, will be at the Electric Factory on Sept. 2, for anyone who is interested. Tickets on sale tommorrow at 215-568-3222.
Ramsey (ramsey@dca.net)
Philly, USA - Thursday, July 23, 1998 at 15:15:54 (EDT)
I'm in full agreement with Aimee here. Reinhold and Nitelife; I have read the official statement from Nitsch, but all his pretentions can't disguise the fact that they are actually sacrifising/butchering these animals to promote his art-show. Disapproving of that has nothing to do with being squeamish, or being narrowminded in one's view of art. It's about having some respect for life. I don't killing is art - bottom line. And as for the Jesse Helms-comparisons: I'm not out to CENSOR the man - I just wish all involved had better taste...and sense!
Bew (mrness@online.no)
Norway - Thursday, July 23, 1998 at 14:56:20 (EDT)
I bet Bowie reads all this puritanical breast-beating and thinks "Now I know why I spend less and less time in the US these days".
Marlene
not USA - Thursday, July 23, 1998 at 14:46:34 (EDT)
NITFLITE: Very well put. You seem a bit out of place here, what with your informed, rational thinking. D.S.
D.S.
SF, CA USA - Thursday, July 23, 1998 at 14:01:56 (EDT)
Sorry Evan, I meant the old fashion kind of press, you know the TV and news papers.
Once a Fan
- Thursday, July 23, 1998 at 13:45:37 (EDT)
NITEFLITE -- I have to reiterate my sentiment that everything is OK with me as long as no one gets hurt. The mass slaughter and mutilation of animals, in the name of art or religion or anything is wrong. Maybe this is ethnocentric or fascistic of me, but it's my opinion. I'm an artist and a great fan of contemporary art. (I actually STUDIED with Karen Finley.) And in all fairness, I'm reading up on the Aktionist movement that Nitsch is a member of, and I'm trying to understand this Orgy-Mystery Theater. And I'm just not getting it so far. Please don't think that I'm making a broad sweeping generalization about adventurous art forms...I'm not doing that at all. I'm not even saying that Nitsch's 6 day event isn't art. Of course it's art, and it's art with value...but that doesn't mean I condone or want to allow the slaughter of innocent animals, and it doesn't mean that it's art that I like. And -- man -- is it ever hard to watch my very favourite artist actively support this.
aimee
USA - Thursday, July 23, 1998 at 13:19:57 (EDT)
Major press? You mean Teenage Wildlife isn't major press? ;)
Evan Torrie (torrie@etete.com)
Stanford, CA USA - Thursday, July 23, 1998 at 12:53:27 (EDT)
BOWIE'S end is near. This will bring down his pompous ass! Wait till the major press gets a hold of this story! He will never recover from it.
Once a fan
- Thursday, July 23, 1998 at 12:43:03 (EDT)
What I am trying to say, and if you are an artist you shoud understand it best. today we condem Nitsch because its too squemish for us. Tomorrow Karen Finley, because it's tastelist, next week Damien Hirst because of his use of cadavers, next Ron Athey because of his HIV bloodspot ink blots. Next Bowie because he supports all of these artists--that is the jesse Helms domino effect. Now david Bowie is not in our cookie cutter minds of what a rock star should be. He is pretty far out there, and if you find this too repulsive to your taste go to the Baycity rollers web site. You don't have to agree with everything he does! Believe me I don't, but I still regard him as one of the most original thinkers in my time.
NITEFLITE
NY, NY USA - Thursday, July 23, 1998 at 12:25:47 (EDT)
I have no problem with anyone's art, lifestyle, opinions or anything ...as long as no one gets hurt. (And I think I'm speaking for the masses with that sentiment. I don't think you'll find too many gay-bashers or Nazis on this site.) But anyway, guess what...someone's getting hurt here. And don't going comparing all of us to Jesse Helms. That's not cool. This is a place for us to present our opinions, not insult eachother. We all love Bowie, some of us just have some very strong opinions on the animal slaughter aspect of this particular artistic endeavor.
aimee
USA - Thursday, July 23, 1998 at 11:15:50 (EDT)
I have no problem with anyone's art, lifestyle, opinions or anything ...as long as no one gets hurt. (And I think I'm speaking for the masses with that sentiment. I don't think you'll find too many gay-bashers or Nazis on this site.) But anyway, guess what...someone's getting hurt here. And don't going comparing all of us to Jesse Helms. That's not cool. This is a place for us to present our opinions, not insult eachother. We all love Bowie, some of us just have some very strong opinions on the animal slaughter aspect of this particular artistic endeavor.
aimme
USA - Thursday, July 23, 1998 at 11:15:39 (EDT)
I can't believe how judgemental everyone is about this art exhibit. Hey man, if you don't like it your entitled, but don't come down so hard on db because he digs it. show a little respect godamnit! What if some fag haters said this about him being gay. I mean the unnerving is david bowie--show some tolerence and get over yourselves. You all sound like Jesse Helms. And if anyone follows db closely enough, none of this should be shocking!
NITEFLITE
NY, NY USA - Thursday, July 23, 1998 at 11:10:26 (EDT)
A very lovely and well-written way to mask a mass public execution, really. I remain repulsed. Honestly, one of the reasons I became a vegetarian is that I resented how the world at large thought that steak came from a shrink-wrapped package in the refrigerator section and not from a cow. I understand that humans are omnivores...yes, we have the teeth to prove it. And yes, most of us veggies are hypocrites...there's no denying that either. How many of us have leather shoes or handbags, simply because it's so much more convenient to do so? Or how many of us buy shampoo with animal ingredients because we didn't think to look at the label? I'm not certainly not perfect, though I try my hardest to be responsible and respectful of my planet and its inhabitants. And I still try to keep a sense of humour about everything. Nonetheless, this whole Nitsch thing isn't sitting well with me. All that prose on his website seems to me like a lot of opportunistic, seemingly PC poetry attempting to justify a humiliating mass murder. Strip away all that poetry and art and look at this event for what it is. It's murder. When you hear about so-called Satanic cults (read "angry, bored teenagers") sacrificing deer or swans in local parks, doesn't that piss you off? This is the same damned thing to me. Senseless, bloody, and cruel.
aimee
USA - Thursday, July 23, 1998 at 10:17:57 (EDT)
Hermann Nitsch' official site is at http://www.nitsch.org/ien/. Please read about his intentions there, before you'll get mad at Bowie, Nitsch or somebody else.
Reinhold
- Thursday, July 23, 1998 at 09:42:54 (EDT)
Rex -- It's good to see you back on the boards, and my sympathies are with you on this. Let's hope the whole thing is some sort of sick hoax, a twisted version of the whole "Nat Tate" thing. AKI -- where did you read that they'd be sedated? (Seriously...I'm not just playing Devil's Advocate, I just haven't read that anywhere.) Even then, don't you think painting with their blood and the public disemboweling is a little barbaric? Should lives really be given in the name of art?
aimee
USA - Thursday, July 23, 1998 at 09:26:27 (EDT)
They're going to give the animals a sedative before they kill them... and then they eat them afterwards. Sounds pretty responsible to me. I don't think it's worth all this fuss and finger-pointing!
Aki (queenvolcano@hotmail.com)
Atlanta, GA USA - Thursday, July 23, 1998 at 09:16:46 (EDT)
I certainly hope this Nitsch business IS a hoax. Because if it isn't, he's in need of some serious therapy!! It just shows what extents people are willing to go to publicise their "art". And David should be ashamed of himself if he condones anything like this. He will have an omelet's worth of egg over his face if this sordid business goes through!
Bew (mrness@online.no)
Norway - Thursday, July 23, 1998 at 07:08:18 (EDT)
I updated Chartwatch again after a lull, and can be read either here at Teenage Wildlife. Highlights this week:
- "Best Of 69/74" re-enters UK charts
- There are three other albums with Bowie written or co-written tracks currently in the UK charts, and two on the US charts
- "I'm Afraid Of Americans" is still on the Canadian chart

Dara
Ireland - Thursday, July 23, 1998 at 05:56:24 (EDT)
Es realmente una pena que Ryko haya terminado la publicación de la serie sound+vision. My collection is not complete! Please Ryko... Don´t...
Sean (sebasm@df1.telmex.net.mx)
Earth - Thursday, July 23, 1998 at 01:38:16 (EDT)
I check out the guestbook once a week or so and generally find it enjoyable reading. I usually do not add anything due to time limitations. However, I must put my two cents in about this sick f**k Nitsch. If Bowie goes through with his support of this insanity, he will forever lose my respect for him as a human being. This is difficult for me to say because up untill now I have had the utmost respect for his talent and as a human being. I can only hope he will come to his senses and withdraw his support. Hopefully Evan will be able to pass along our thoughts and comments to Bowies management company. Maybe some of the participants in the program will confuse Nitsch (the pig he is) with one of the real animals and turn him into some bloody piece-of-shit artwork that I can piss on.
Rex Leetham (rexl@xmission.com)
Salt Lake, UT USA - Thursday, July 23, 1998 at 00:54:16 (EDT)
David Bowie is the greatest artist ever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I haven't disliked anything he's done as much as this piece of "news" I still will always enjoy his music , acting and art. I don't care about the killing as much as the squishing grapes and entrails with my feet and calling that art. There's no such thing as good press or bad press...(?) -are we sure.
John (Glassasylum@hotmail.com)
USA - Wednesday, July 22, 1998 at 22:55:09 (EDT)
I, too, just wanted to say how digusted I am by that animal killing thing and I am astounded that Bowie would allow himself to be linked to something like that. It makes no sense.
Kali
USA - Wednesday, July 22, 1998 at 17:31:33 (EDT)
Thanks, Patti -- I realized that a few seconds after I hit the "Add Comment" button. I've been there and even added my name to the list. How do you feel about this whole fiasco? Joke or reality? Art or Murder?
aimee
USA - Wednesday, July 22, 1998 at 17:19:57 (EDT)
aimee...there is a link for nitsch's site on evan's newspage
patti (pattibowie)
- Wednesday, July 22, 1998 at 16:39:35 (EDT)
hey tura...email me, i don't know how to get in touch with you. :-( new york is absolutely possible...i just need to know details.
patti (pattibowie)
- Wednesday, July 22, 1998 at 16:38:52 (EDT)
Clearly I have a lot to say about this. It seems that Nitsch (fact or fiction) was the inspiration behind much of "Outside." (It was definitely murder, but was it Art?) While I can understand how taking art beyond this line is inspirational as a distanced outsider (so to speak) but who would have thought that Bowie would actively participate in such a thing. I'd love to put this into a forum...I was having trouble getting into it before, but I think I'll give it another shot. Anyone have any comments from this angle? Maybe this is a warm up for "Contamination."
aimee
USA - Wednesday, July 22, 1998 at 16:26:26 (EDT)
Well, now that you mention it, Nitsch DOES look a lot like Benny Hill...honestly rancell, I hope you're right. It does seem too gory to be true.
aimee
USA - Wednesday, July 22, 1998 at 16:20:02 (EDT)
I think it may only be wishful thinking, but I am hoping this Nitsch thing is a hoax. Does he really exist? Putting brutality aside if that is possible, the whole thing appears so incredibly stupid. And expensive. Are people really paying to see this? Do students really want to participate? What for? The experience for their art careers? Are they and the patrons total friggin' idiots? Yeah, I know, all the stuff about judging art we haven't seen makes it very un-PC to say that this sucks without seeing it. I guess we're all too judgmental. Fortunately, this "art" wouldn't be possible here. This jerk would be arrested as soon as he took the stage with his knife or saber or whatever, because you can't kill animals for no reason in NY and NJ and in most states. People go to jail for far less (i.e., cockfighting organizers AND patrons). And that Web site certainly didn't provide a reason.
rancell
NYC, NY USA - Wednesday, July 22, 1998 at 15:59:35 (EDT)
To echo everyone else's sentiments, I am totally disgusted by Nitsch's desire to slaughter animals in the name of art. Even Damien Hirst only used cadavers in his work. Nitsch's notion of "sacrificial" killing of animals that he claims would only be on their way to the slaughterhouse is preposterous. Get a grip. Orgy Mystery? More like Orgy Killing.

Patti, you and I have too many things in common, besides that special quality that Bowie finds so endearing in us. Coming to NY second week of September, perchance??
Tura
USA - Wednesday, July 22, 1998 at 15:21:46 (EDT)


Bowie needs to get that skinny white ass of his to work on new material rather than attend mass animal slaughter.
Bull
UK - Wednesday, July 22, 1998 at 15:01:35 (EDT)
I just really hope that he really does check out this site regularly...maybe our strong disapproval will have some effect. (Wake UP!) Incidentally (or not so incidentally), I am a vegetarian and a supporter of animal rights, so I don't know if I can just sit back and allow a bull to be disemboweled for public pleasure. I'm going to have to be a little proactive on this one, so I'll be writing DB a letter....I'll also post stuff on every Bowie message board on the web. Anyone care to join me in a little activism? BTW , where is Nitsch's (sp?) website?
aimee
USA - Wednesday, July 22, 1998 at 14:30:27 (EDT)
Here here Spidey, Aimee etc !! I couldn't believe what I was reading !!! There is NO justification for it - it is just plain SICK !!! and I am disgusted that David should be supporting such a thing !
Jeaj (jeej@globalnet.co.uk)
Falkirk, SCOTLAND - Wednesday, July 22, 1998 at 14:18:58 (EDT)
i am also horrified by the thought of bowie participating in hermann nitsch's 6 days of... i'm not a vegetarian, but i know bowie is (or at least used to be) and it surprises me to think he supports this person. i went to nitsch's website to see what it was about and found the events repulsive. here is an example of a day at this event: slaughter and disembowellment of a bull presentation of numerous action motifs (actions with flesh, blood, animal carcasses and human bodies) 12:30pm lunch finale of the first evening, hoisting the bull up the castle wall evening meal... what is up with this???? i don't get it at all????????
patti (pattibowie@aol.com)
- Wednesday, July 22, 1998 at 13:47:26 (EDT)
Aimee - I totally agree with you - I am so shocked & disgusted on reading the reports of the ‘Artist’ Nitsch :-( BUT then I guess that’s the whole point!!!! But why oh why does DB have to involve himself with it (if the reports are to be believed)............it’s beyond me :-( I just think, IMHO, that the whole thing is gross, sick and cruel beyond reason :-( and it leaves me very sad :-(
Spider (datkins@netcomuk.co.uk)
UK - Wednesday, July 22, 1998 at 13:24:29 (EDT)
...by the way, who knew that Alys, Josie, Hel and me all had practically the same birthday? Happy belated, you guys. Watch those Molsons, Alys!!!
aimee
USA - Wednesday, July 22, 1998 at 12:51:10 (EDT)
Sex Shows - Philadelphia Inquire Mick's 26 year old daughter and mother of his grandkids is reportedly hawking sex shows on the Spanish isle of fun n sun Ibiza. She's seen all over the place on posters, on one wearing naught but a cat mask, a wig and trussed up with a white rope. In a previous report, the rocker expressed concern over his daughter's recent activities. Her connection with the trade is via her Brit buds. Mike McKay and Claire Davies, who entertain thousands of fun seekers by doing Full Monty sex at a club called Manumission where onlookers pay $45 for the privilege and are encouraged to strip for cameras. Jade's a good friend, McKay told a reporter. "If she wants to take part in a porn movie or the live sex shows, that's up to her. Her dad wouldn't give a toss. Who's he anyway to moralize?"
Jim
USA - Wednesday, July 22, 1998 at 12:47:48 (EDT)
Secondly, I'm deeply troubled by Bowie's active support of Nitzch's slaughter of innocent animals. As an artist, Bowie fan, and humanitarian, this effects me on many levels. I understand, being an art school grad and an owner of the "Outside" CD, the artistic value of slaughter. Yes, on paper and in paint, it's very cool. But I can never, never condone the taking of a life for anything other than a dire emergency. And fine art and the testing of hairsprays don't qualify in my book. I'm really upset that the man I've practically idolized is paying 250 quid to support this barbaric thing. Is it just me, or isn't this whole thing completely backass? Have we all just gotten so blinded by the importance of art/ truth in art that we can't see when it's gotten completely removed from reality? The line between art and murder?
aimee (akessler@phillips.com)
USA - Wednesday, July 22, 1998 at 12:46:55 (EDT)
First off, I saw Spacehog last night. They were incredible, despite an astoundingly lame crowd. And...they opened with "Crack City." They're just so Ziggy, and it makes me happy.
aimee (akessler@phillips.com)
USA - Wednesday, July 22, 1998 at 12:32:40 (EDT)
MIRANDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! dont forget to swing by to pick me up on the way to bludgeon the judges...all a part of our plan..muahahahhahaahaha!!!!
lass (psaerraugh) (punksissy@aol.com)
suffragette, va USA - Tuesday, July 21, 1998 at 16:50:36 (EDT)
tura--we share so MANY similar qualities...........
patti (pattibowie@aol.com)
- Tuesday, July 21, 1998 at 14:55:44 (EDT)
Linus, from what I've heard the live album was recorded at a couple of the UK dates, though the exact shows escape me at the moment. As for what songs will appear, your guess is as good as anyone else's at this point. A few of the press releases for BOWIENET have made mention that an album of new material is already in the works and can be expected in '99. There is also the RUGRATS material that he and Reeves supposedly recorded along with at least one member of the CURE. So there are indeed a couple of things to look forward to.
bart "STARLING" (tinmac2@aol.com)
Nj USA - Tuesday, July 21, 1998 at 08:51:30 (EDT)
Thank you, Petter and Kali for taking your time! Sounds great with a Live album from the Earthling tour! Anyone know were I can get more info about it or has anyone heard anything about it. Like, on which place is it recorded, whatr songs will be on the record and so on? If David is going to release a new studio album, anyone know what it will be? More drum&bass...hip-hop..soul..r&b...jazz..rock´n´roll..techno?????
Linus (oste@hotmail.com)
Ljusdal, Sweden - Tuesday, July 21, 1998 at 03:18:09 (EDT)
I think with an artist as dynamic and complex as Bowie, it's difficult for a programme like the VH1 show to do anything that's not superficial. I've only been a "fan" for just shy of 2 years and I have been overwhelmed by the complexity of Bowie and his music.
Kali
USA - Monday, July 20, 1998 at 18:38:59 (EDT)
Hallo, I just saw that VH1 thingy last night too. I watched a good hour of it, and no doubt, the artists that VH1 and MTV play got the most time. Especially if they had "MTV Unplugged" segmants to show. Hell, Nirvana and Eric Clapton got about 10 minutes each! The older R&B artists, except for James Brown, were given only a minute or two. Truthfully, the whole thing was very superficially done, no artist getting more than a few minutes and the celebs chosen to comment were lame. So not surprisingly, they eschewed any attempt to do justice to Bowie's, or anyone's full body of work, and focused on the career aspects that they could nutshell. The greatest thing about the whole program was the mere FACT that Bowie was placed so highly by his peers, further testament to his wide-ranging influence in the music industry itself.
Ramsey (ramsey@dca.net)
Philly, USA - Monday, July 20, 1998 at 15:11:45 (EDT)
Hellow everyone! I just decided to stop by, seeing as I haven't for quite some time. Glad to hear Mr. Bowie was nominated for an MTV award. He'd better win, or I'll brawl all of the judges! Till death! And then I will rise! Anyhow, hello Nate and Theresa and Alassinsane! I love you all! And Jack, if you're reading this, send me a damn e-mail!!! LoveOnYa!!! xxxxx
Miranda (LdySta7038@aol.com)
Freecloud, CA USA - Monday, July 20, 1998 at 14:19:10 (EDT)
Hellow everyone! I just decided to stop by, seeing as I haven't for quite some time. Glad to hear Mr. Bowie was nominated for an MTV award. He'd better win, or I'll brawl all of the judges! Till death! And then I will rise! Anyhow, hello Nate and Theresa and Alassinsane! I love you all! And Jack, if you're reading this, send me a damn e-mail!!! LoveOnYa!!! xxxxx
Miranda (LdySta7038@aol.com)
Freecloud, CA USA - Monday, July 20, 1998 at 14:18:53 (EDT)
Yes, Gwinevere, I had a go at transcribing the Vanity Fair piece and you can find it here: http://www.etete.com/Bowie/Appearances/Press/1998/0800/vanityfair.html
Helen
USA - Monday, July 20, 1998 at 13:07:14 (EDT)
Rancell: I totally agree with you about the VH-1 thing. His part was really short, and choosing to focus on his many personas was an "easy out." As far as this Vanity Fair interview is concerned: I wanted to look at it on the rack, but alas, the mag is swathed in plastic. Is there a link for it online, or has anyone transcribed it?
Gwinevere (Gwinny@aol.com)
New York, NY USA - Monday, July 20, 1998 at 11:46:21 (EDT)
This is quite a bit after the fact, but last night I saw for the first time the VH-1 100 influential artists (as voted on by musicians) show, and I thought that with regard to Bowie it was accurate but disappointing. As you remember, he was at No. 7. In terms of influence and importance, many in the, say, Top 25, were interchangeable anyway, though biases aside, it is great that Bowie was near the top. But in the brief segment, the producers' view--a general mirror of the public's, IMO--stuck to his constant persona changes, making that his biggest influence. Madonna's Hall of Fame speech snippet wasn't much different than the testimonials to any other artists: thus-and-such changed my life. It mentioned his many albums ... but the problem was that it ignored his music. Bowie's changes are so interesting because the music, so often, was (and is) so good. I don't think most artists aspire to be ever-changing like Bowie. I think they aspire to doing a lot of different muscial things well, like he does. The show could and should have said that almost forgotten in the theatrics is the fact that artists probably voted him so high because he is as talented a songwriter as anyone on the list. Finally, I didn't have a timer on, but there is little question that the artists who fit in with VH-1's programming list got more time. The Bowie segment seemed awfully short. And it deliberately failed to mention the fact that he was still creating, presumably because his '90s output doesn't come close to what VH-1 does, notwithstanding its airing of the GQ awards show.
rancell
NYC, NY USA - Monday, July 20, 1998 at 11:09:30 (EDT)
This struck me (and probably only me) as interesting. Here is the second paragraph of NY Daily News critic Jim Farber's review of the new Beastie Boys album, which appears on the paper's web site today: "Should we expect anything less from these guys? Despite their enduring brattiness, the Boys long ago established themselves as men in the realm of sonic flair. For more than 12 years, they've confounded expectations, making the sort of album-by-album creative pole-vaults not seen since performers like David Bowie and Led Zeppelin in their '70s primes." And now, the first paragraph from a review of the same album, by Neil Strauss (aka the Manson "auto"-biographer), in yesterday's NY Times: "THERE is a term in hip-hop, flavor. It is a good thing. Rappers want to have flavor: panache, style, something extra that enables them to stand out from the pack. In their 17 years together, however, the Beastie Boys have developed something much better than flavor: taste. This is not a hip-hop term. It is the key to survival in the mercurial world of pop. Musicians like David Bowie, Peter Gabriel and David Byrne have good taste; as most of their colleagues have fossilized, it has enabled them to remain relevant, even after their hit-making days ended."
rancell
NYC, NY USA - Monday, July 20, 1998 at 09:50:41 (EDT)
She sure did Ramsey! I'll supply details later today. By the way she is returning to play again some time in Sept! I'll post the details.
O.D.B.P.A.
USA - Monday, July 20, 1998 at 07:26:58 (EDT)
Alys! Are you saying my CD has eyes for you??? Don't tell my husband.... ;)..... BTW, since Andy is plugging his newsletter, and a nice one it is, I'll plug mine for the first time (I think) on the guestbook...having kept things rather informal for over a year now.....but, I'm up to issue #101 of the David Bowie Newsletter for the "Lazy and Web-IMpaired" or news only a fanatic could love...drop me an e-mail to subscribe! Bonster
Bonster (dbfan@aol.com)
Montgomery, AL USA - Monday, July 20, 1998 at 01:54:33 (EDT)
Excuse me, ODBPA, are you saying Gail Ann played at the Lilith Fair this past Friday? Which bands did she play with? I know she lives in Philly and I could have sworn I saw someone looking just like her walking around downtown last weekend :-)!! BTW, I am going to the Sat. nite Bauhaus show in NYC and probably both Philly shows, if anyone here will be there.
Ramsey (ramsey@dca.net)
Philly, PA USA - Sunday, July 19, 1998 at 18:32:48 (EDT)
I wouldn't dare to dream of rolling my eyes at Danny, Bart. Only at Peter, when he took off his pants on stage behind a silk curtain, and teased the crowd with it. Oh why?! Why couldn't I be Kevin, taking pictures from behind? If you're in desperate need to find out more information about Bauhaus, you can go see the Bauhaus Resurrection page.

Doesn't it seem strange after Bowie saying that doing movies was boring, he goes on a filming spree? I mean, 3 movies in the first 7 months of the year?! And the Vanity Fair piece was pretty funny, I must say. At least I know I qualify when they ask what he likes most in women.
Tura
USA - Sunday, July 19, 1998 at 14:21:58 (EDT)


I'm sorry, but I just have trouble believing Angy and Jeaj are REALLY drunk...I have yet to see them drink heavily...LOL Maybe at the next Bowie Reunion in London, eh? =;->
Kali
USA - Sunday, July 19, 1998 at 10:49:45 (EDT)
Gail Ann performed friday night at the Sony Center in Camden NJ. She performed with two different groups!
Official David Bowie Pirate Album
USA - Sunday, July 19, 1998 at 10:41:52 (EDT)
Hallo everyone! Jeaj, Angy!!! Jeaj, please please please check your mail... there's a very important message there! Many hugs to you both.... It's less than TWO WEEKS now till I'm off to Glasgow to see ya!
Alys (palmer@nucleus.com)
Calgary, Canada - for now!! - Saturday, July 18, 1998 at 22:55:51 (EDT)
Hi all !!!! Jeaj & Angy here !!!!! just thought we'd leave a wee ,message seeing as we've heard how you moiss us alll !!!!!!! We've been in the pub - and are pretty drunk !!!! LOL !!! but - as Angy would say BOWIE IS A SEX GOD !!! wooooooohoooooooooooooo !!! c yas soon !!!xxxxxxxxx
Jeaj&Angy
Falkirk, SCOTLAND - Saturday, July 18, 1998 at 20:26:51 (EDT)
Ha, chance for a free plug. The best way for Linus or anyone else qwho wants to keep abreast of all important Bowie news like forthcoming releases is to subscribe to my free Bowie newsletter. Anyone not already subscribed who wants to join the 700+ people already subscribed should send me a mail at bowie_news@hotmail.com with the word "Subscribe" in the subject.
Andrew Stewart (bowie_news@hotmail.com)
USA - Saturday, July 18, 1998 at 15:28:50 (EDT)
Aimee, I was glad to read that you are fine and just been hiding under a rock. hope to get an e-mail from you soon.
Shai (db1fan@netvision.net.il)
Ramat Gan, ISRAEL - Saturday, July 18, 1998 at 08:28:24 (EDT)
Bons, your CD is sitting right here looking at me - it will be off soon, I promise!
Alys (palmer@nucleus.com)
Calgary, Canada - Saturday, July 18, 1998 at 00:54:24 (EDT)
Hey, all! I'm still alive, but I may have been living under a rock! Our boy Dave nominated for an MTV award? What a shocker! But I am thrilled. Going to see Spacehog on Tuesday. (Is anyone else?) I'll file a full report Wednesday morning...I'm curious to see if they do their "Crack City" cover -- and any others!
aimee (akessler@phillips.com)
USA - Friday, July 17, 1998 at 18:09:37 (EDT)
Page W12 of the Wall Street Journal has its "Collecting" column, today titled "Hard Times for Rock: Collectibles Are About as Hot as Last year's Hit." The jist: the memorabilia market is down. Way, way down. The problem: The Hard Rock Café chain, which created the market, has become a more selective buyer. The article has a big picture of Madonna and three memorabilia items, including a red Chandler (?) guitar. The caption says: "Yesterday's Gone: In a weakening memorabilia market, only the legends are fetching top prices: Madonna's costumes, but not her diary, soared at auction (top), David Bowie's guitar didn't sell, an Elvis Presley relic went for $12,650, double its expected price, and Elton John's jacket was left behind at Christie's auction house." There is another mention in the article: "For the same reason that the works of deceased artists become more pricey after their deaths, collectibles from dead or inactive rock stars have the highest values. Among living artists, several legends, such as Bob Dylan and David Bowie, have a market only for their earliest material. What's more, the collectibility of living performers is frequently affected by controversy. [A Hard Rock official] says she isn't buying Michael Jackson material any longer."
rancell
NYC, NY USA - Friday, July 17, 1998 at 13:58:26 (EDT)
The only upcoming album I know of, Linus, is the live-album from the Earthling tour. As for a studio album, that won't be until next year - at earliest.
Petter (bewlay@online.no)
Norway - Friday, July 17, 1998 at 08:31:43 (EDT)
Linus -- no one's answering probably because no one knows for sure what's going on. I mean, far be it from anyone here to dabble in rumours (right Belle?). Keep checking Evan's news page for any updates.
Kali
USA - Friday, July 17, 1998 at 08:21:19 (EDT)
Erhm...I´m starting to get a bit angry here...WHY can´t anybody tell me if David is on his way to release a new record. I would be very glad if anyone anweserd me!
Linus (oste@hotmail.com)
Ljusdal, Sweden - Friday, July 17, 1998 at 03:52:26 (EDT)
Jim, when I see Bowie in concert I am certain that they are one in the same!!!
bart "STARLING" (tinmac2@aol.com)
NJ USA - Thursday, July 16, 1998 at 21:11:30 (EDT)
Yes Kali dahling, I need a fine Canadian lass like ALys to tell me where my dang you-know-what is...you know us Americans can't find our asses without help from SOMEBODY! ;)
Bonster (dbfan@aol.com)
Montgomery, AL USA - Thursday, July 16, 1998 at 17:07:19 (EDT)
KelMar, I think you and Bart have a better chance of seeing GOD than Bowie doing another concert this year at the Electric Factory. Now on your behalf I would rather see Bowie in concert than see God.
Jim
USA - Thursday, July 16, 1998 at 13:59:29 (EDT)
I am going to DC on the 6th, and possibly NYC, I have to coordinate some things first. Anyone going to DC?
KelMarJ
USA - Thursday, July 16, 1998 at 12:59:13 (EDT)
KelMar..will you be going to the Philly Bauhaus show? We're thinking about it here. If you do, you'll find us smack dab in front of Daniel Ash with wonder in our eyes. (stop rolling your eyes, Tura)
bart "STARLING" (tinmac2@aol.com)
NJ USA - Thursday, July 16, 1998 at 12:52:41 (EDT)
Awww, Bart why'd you have to go and twist my mellow???? Now I want a Bowie tour too. Dammit. Maybe after all the acting roles.... *sighs*
KelMarAsh
USA - Thursday, July 16, 1998 at 12:08:30 (EDT)
I'll echo the kudos for Tura's Bauhaus Page, though I must say the format makes me somewhat nostalgic for another tour which I was tracking so religiously this time last summer.
bart "STARLING" (tinmac2@aol.com)
nj USA - Thursday, July 16, 1998 at 11:43:58 (EDT)
I would like to thank Tura for the amazing job on the Resurrection page. Thanks to Tura, I am going to see Bauhaus in DC. (and thanks to mommy too!) Peace out, yo! ;-)
KelMarMurphy (kelmarbowie@hotmail.com)
USA - Thursday, July 16, 1998 at 10:05:23 (EDT)
A (bad) reproduction of the cover of the "Telling Lies" single appears at the top of page one of the Arts section of today's NY Times. The article is about the prospects for online distribution of music. Bowie was the first example used. The article says that fans have stayed away from buying music downloads (from companies like N2K) in droves, basically because the offerings tend to be from unknown bands--noting that the 300,000 TL downloads in 1996 was unusual because it was music by an internationally known name. But the future looks bright for all sorts of reasons that the article discusses at length. It should be at www.nytimes.com and on AOL if you are interested.
rancell
NYC, NY USA - Thursday, July 16, 1998 at 09:38:00 (EDT)
Bart, Hank was only drunk, not retarded. There was a blond-haired guy that appeared in the interminable Stern audience interviews that was apparently mentally disabled, sitting with strippers. He later danced with the strippers when Bowie played, on camera IIRC during Fame. Of course, the guy might only have been acting retarded. Or would that be worse? It would be great if Bowie had a "reunion" with Nine Inch Nails on the MTV awards and performed, a la Springsteen sitting in the W---------s last year. MTV announced some performers yesterday, none of whom matter.
rancell
NYC, NY USA - Thursday, July 16, 1998 at 09:31:42 (EDT)
Edwyn Collins calling Chumbawamba hypocrites is the pot calling the kettle black!! How very HIM to brag about flying business class on TV, and at the same time using it to take a swing at others. He clearly thinks he's God's gift to Rock'N'Roll. Mr "Holier Than Thou" Collins also labelled DAVID as "pathetic" last year, in an interview with Vox. He even makes STING look unpretentious!
Petter (bewlay@online.no)
Norway - Thursday, July 16, 1998 at 03:03:18 (EDT)
Bons, it's coming - I have been working too much to get out to the store though :(
Alys (palmer@nucleus.com)
the usual - Thursday, July 16, 1998 at 02:31:29 (EDT)
Bonster -- you need Alys to tell you where your "dang you-know-what" is??? Oh, that's sad..... =;->
Kali
USA - Thursday, July 16, 1998 at 00:46:20 (EDT)
Happy Birthday Ilsa and Alys!!! And BTW Alys...where is my dang you -know-what!!! :) Affectionately, Bonster
Bonster (dbfan@aol.com)
Montgomery, AL USA - Wednesday, July 15, 1998 at 23:26:29 (EDT)
BTW, some really lame show is playing right now on MTV, they are showing fans really embarrassing themselves meeting their favorite groups, but they did just show Third Eye Blind, prominently stating that they site DAVID BOWIE as a major influence. Is that why you're dragging me to see them, Patti :-)?
Ramsey (ramsey@dca.net)
USA - Wednesday, July 15, 1998 at 23:02:34 (EDT)
Happiest Birthdays to Ilsa, Alys and Helen, and to Glenna (my maman), who will never in a million years see this, but whose b-day was on Bastille Day!
Ramsey (ramsey@dca.net)
Philly, PA USA - Wednesday, July 15, 1998 at 22:59:23 (EDT)
Rancell... you mean HANK THE ANGRY DWARF?????? A true Prince among men if I ever saw one. OK, point well taken though. As long as he doesn't have to sit out in the audience next to all of them. Let him do his song and retreat to the dressing room.
bart "STARLING" (tinmac2@aol.com)
nj USA - Wednesday, July 15, 1998 at 22:53:33 (EDT)
Happy Birthday to Josie and Helen!! Many hugs to you both! I'll hoist a pint for you Josie my sis :) Many thanks to all for the nice birthday wishes too! love and kisses!
Alys (palmer@nucleus.com)
Calgary, Canada - Wednesday, July 15, 1998 at 18:20:29 (EDT)
Bart, as you remember, Bowie did the Howard Stern birthday show. There was an apparently retarded person dancing to Bowie's performance on camera. By comparison, even the weirdest Dennis Rodman/Marilyn Manson MTV publicity stunt tends to look like PBS.
rancell
NYC, NY USA - Wednesday, July 15, 1998 at 16:16:54 (EDT)
Happy birthday Alys! Good news about the MTV nomination. A live performance would certainly be a nice plug for EARTHLING LIVE. At the same time though, the MTV Awards truly brings out the dregs of society and I'd kinda hate to see Bowie having to spend the evening among the sewage that bubbles up there.
bart "STARLING" (tinmac2@aol.com)
nj USA - Wednesday, July 15, 1998 at 16:07:20 (EDT)
'Oh Alys is eighteen, And she is fairly clean; She's not at all stuck-up or haughty, But now she's 18 she'll probably turn naughty!'

'Josie is now a Big Girly, And gee, it's come none too early; Imagine waiting 21 years, Just to have a few legal beers!'

'Helen's already had one or two beers, Through her hell-raising years; But she'll have to be locked up in a cage, Before she'll settle down to middle-age!'


Denis Collins (denis.collins@cableinet.co.uk)
Liverpool, England - Wednesday, July 15, 1998 at 15:25:39 (EDT)


Happy Birthday Alys! My little sis is 18! And that means that my other little sis (Alys' twin- my that must have been a tough pregnancy!) Josie is 21! My two little sisters legally 'come of age' on the same day, despite being three years apart in age- well, those are the respective licensing laws of Canada and the US for you! A zillion hugs to you both.

And, not forgetting Helen! Today must be your birthday too, though you are already 'of age' I believe, hehe. Happy birthday one and all!


Denis Collins (denis.collins@cableinet.co.uk)
Liverpool, England - Wednesday, July 15, 1998 at 15:19:59 (EDT)


Jeaj -- no, you can go right ahead and send KelMar the pics....hell, after the one that was put on my birthday website NOTHING will embarass me! ROFLMAO!!! (BTW: Don't forget, I want PRINTS)
Kali
USA - Wednesday, July 15, 1998 at 12:25:29 (EDT)
ALYS!!!!!!! HAPPY BIRTHDAY to my favourite Canadian!!!!!!!!! YAY!!!!!!!!!!
Kali
USA - Wednesday, July 15, 1998 at 12:24:35 (EDT)
Happy Bday Alys! I was just dropping in to inform everyone that I'm back online. Yay!
Aq (yes.please@you.should.know.com)
USA - Wednesday, July 15, 1998 at 12:17:21 (EDT)
ALYS!!!!!!! HAPPY BIRTHDAY BABY. Is 18 legal drinking age in Canada?
Helen2
USA - Wednesday, July 15, 1998 at 11:17:12 (EDT)
ALYS!!! You didn't tell me last night in chat that it was your birthday! ( Mr. Bowie called me at work this morning and told me...) I'll drink my next bottle of Merlot Irons '93 for you tonight! Cheers, and all the best. :-) Jeaj- send photos to my email, I'll be sure to distribute properly! ;-) Was no one here born on the Bastille????
KelMar (kelmarbowie@hotmail.com)
USA - Wednesday, July 15, 1998 at 08:32:01 (EDT)
Happy Birthday to two of my favourite ladies, Ilsa and Alys! And thanks for the tapes Ilsa :-) Susie - Chumbawumba are a particular brand of hypocrites. Edwyn Collins told a story on UK TV recently about meeting them on a plane, except he was back in Economy Class and they (who are always so keen to express their proletariat right-on instincts) were ensconced in first class. But at least they're talking about Bowie again these days. A couple of years ago, it seemed the mainstream media and younger bands simply ignored him for the most part. Rancell: Excellent news about the nomination, and I notice you also know how to calculate a "book" with a typical spread. I'll go 5 to 4 Will Smith, 6 to 4 Busta, 5 to 1 Bowie, 20 to 1 bar.
Dara
Ireland - Wednesday, July 15, 1998 at 05:36:14 (EDT)

HAPPY 18TH BIRTHDAY ALYS!!! :-)))


Petter (bewlay@online.no)
Norway - Wednesday, July 15, 1998 at 05:24:04 (EDT)
BTW Kelmar and anyone else interested - I have a whole LOAD of pics from that London trip hehehe !!! Kali - if you don't want them to be shown I'll give you my bank accout details !!! :)
Jeaj (jeej@globalnet.co.uk)
Falkirk, FLOWER OF SCOTLAND - Wednesday, July 15, 1998 at 05:16:06 (EDT)
HAPPY BIRTHDAY ALYS !!!!!!!! love & hugs, see you soon :) I promise to show you all the delights of Scottish pubs and the wonder that is Morgans Spiced Rum and Strawberry Concorde !! xxxxxxxxxxxx
Jeaj (jeej@globalnet.co.uk)
Falkirk, SCOTLAND - Wednesday, July 15, 1998 at 05:13:28 (EDT)
When does the MTV Music Video Awards air? Gotta watch it! GO BOWIE!!!!!
Heather M. (Hazynerk@aol.com)
............., Ca USA - Wednesday, July 15, 1998 at 00:30:57 (EDT)
I just checked out the concentric site and there is a Tacoma dial-up. I'm going to get the Bowie ISP. Thanks Evan for pointing the way for this info.
John (Glassasylum@hotmail.com)
Tacoma, Wa USA - Tuesday, July 14, 1998 at 20:38:49 (EDT)
Funny thing is, I've been shopping around for a new ISP now that I've got a full-color computer, and then roomie tells me that that David Bowie is getting into the ISP business. I think $19.95 is a perfectly fair price if only to have davidbowie.com as an email addy, and all the extra nifties are just bonus as far as I'm concerned! Sign me up!
Sarashay (sarashay@rocketmail.com)
Atlantaland, USA - Tuesday, July 14, 1998 at 20:01:34 (EDT)
KelMar: But I LIKE those Russian thingys!!!
Kali
USA - Tuesday, July 14, 1998 at 18:50:11 (EDT)
Thanks Coldfyr and Squeakie
John
USA - Tuesday, July 14, 1998 at 18:39:24 (EDT)
Just a reminder to Kali that you only technically own 1/2 of this famous scanner which is not in use.
Belle
USA - Tuesday, July 14, 1998 at 16:51:42 (EDT)
please please please someone get me a transcript of the 20 questions thingie on vanity fair please. love on ya
liz (elizabeth_q@hotmail.com)
- Tuesday, July 14, 1998 at 15:46:30 (EDT)
This one's a shocker: Bowie was nominated by MTV for best male video today. Here's what it says: "2. MALE VIDEO: David Bowie featuring Trent Reznor, ``I'm Afraid of Americans (Nine Inch Nails Remix)''; Busta Rhymes, ``Put Your Hands Where My Eyes Could See''; Eric Clapton, ``My Father's Eyes''; Brian McKnight, ``Anytime''; Will Smith, ``Just the Two of Us.''" That channel really has come up big time for him this year. Early handicapping anyone? OK, I'll start: Bowie is 3-1; Busta is 2-1; Clapton is 15-1; McKnight is 15-1; and Will Smith is the favorite at 3-2. But Bowie wins as sentimental favorite. At least here.
rancell
NYC, NY USA - Tuesday, July 14, 1998 at 14:53:44 (EDT)
hmmmm kali, i see someone has your number. :-)
patti
- Tuesday, July 14, 1998 at 12:57:04 (EDT)
Don't know if it's been noted here yet, but in the just out issue of Vanity Fair, Bowie's 'interviewed' on the last page, one of those twenty-questions sort of things. I don't have it here to transcribe, but it's worth taking a peek at at the newsstand. Droll and amusing as always!
Mahonri
SLC, UT USA - Tuesday, July 14, 1998 at 12:30:16 (EDT)
i just read from "peoples"magazine the other day about bowie bonds.they were saying how Bowie is getting richer and richer, the group Chumbawumba(?) was commenting, and dissaproving how the Bowie bonds are making his songs a commodity. And how it is making him almost like a gas or electricity company. I thought so what? He is an astute businessman with a amazing musical gift.And we love him for it!!
susie (hbnss@earthlink.net)
burlingame, ca USA - Tuesday, July 14, 1998 at 11:55:00 (EDT)
Why, oh, why can't David be mine? Can anyone answer that? Besides the fact that I'm 16 and he's- what is it, 52 now?- and I have a boyfriend, and David's married, and that if he knew about me he would probably merely pity my pathetic state, and that even if he did belong to me then probably I would be assassinated by other female (or male) fans. But...but...he said that he would never let me down. And that he wanted me to be his wife. why must he play games with my head??
Alassinsane
USA - Tuesday, July 14, 1998 at 09:10:14 (EDT)
David told me to tell Ilsa "you're oh so very welcome, dearie." And David told me to tell Kali "thanks so much for getting his ass in gear on that scanner." He also told me to tell Kali that "he should spend more time learning how to use a computer properly, and less time drinking those Russian thingys." We would have talked longer, but he had to dash off to start his new movie where in he plays a Swahili Mafia boss embroiled in the theft of a Picasso portrait in Indonesia. Its going to be filmed in Ohio, and co-star Christopher Walken as a kindly priest who falls in love with a woman, but keeps his faith despite his passion for her. Woman to be played by Kathy Bates. I'll be sure to keep you all abreast of David's happenings as he lets me know. :-)
KelMar
USA - Tuesday, July 14, 1998 at 08:33:11 (EDT)
Kali, I'm tired but happy :)
Shai (db1fan@netvision.net.il)
Ramat Gan, ISRAEL - Tuesday, July 14, 1998 at 05:49:41 (EDT)
Hallo...can anybody please tell me if David is going to release a new album. By the way...vote David for president!
Linus (oste@hotmail.com)
Ljusdal, Sweden - Tuesday, July 14, 1998 at 05:28:57 (EDT)
Congrats to you " Sarge" John!!! How's the conditions at McChord these days?
Coldfyr (morepi@hotmail.com)
USA - Tuesday, July 14, 1998 at 05:01:45 (EDT)
Thank you all so much for my birthday wishes, flowers, hot fudge sundae, sound files, cards, poems, phone calls, Freetel and email. Whew, did I remember everything? Hope so. You're all just tooo dear!! And Kayem, next time you talk to David, please thank him for me too.
Ilsa, etc. ;-) (jsands@hereintown.net)
Frostburg, MD USA - Tuesday, July 14, 1998 at 04:07:33 (EDT)
Hehe - well observed on the Donald Pleasence-resemblence, Denis - I couldn't agree more! :-)
Petter (bewlay@online.no)
Norway - Tuesday, July 14, 1998 at 03:54:24 (EDT)
Congrats SSgt John... NCO of the quarter... not sure what that is, but it sounds cool!
SQ (squeakie@squeakie.com)
VANCOUVER, - Tuesday, July 14, 1998 at 03:10:40 (EDT)
I've been 'outside' for awhile. Got an award-take a look here.
John (Glassasylum@hotmail.com)
USA - Tuesday, July 14, 1998 at 01:29:41 (EDT)
Happy Birthday Gran! (otherwise known as Ilsa, Joanie, etc.) Love and kisses, Alys xxxxoooo
Hallo Den... nice to see you around :-)

Alys (palmer@nucleus.com)
Calgary, Canada - Tuesday, July 14, 1998 at 01:12:29 (EDT)
Denis -- you're right about that goalie looking like "Donald"! LOL I kept trying to figure out who he reminded me of!!! =:->
Kali
USA - Monday, July 13, 1998 at 18:44:01 (EDT)
KelMar...Tell David that I already do HAVE my scanner -- I've had it for a few weeks now. BUT, I can't get it to work. I'm waiting for my buddy to get over here so we can 1) listen to some Bowie music and 2) get my scanner working so that I can please you no end. =;->
Kali
USA - Monday, July 13, 1998 at 18:42:48 (EDT)
Happy Birthday Ilse!!!!!!!
Kali
USA - Monday, July 13, 1998 at 18:41:52 (EDT)
HAPPY BIRTHDAY ILSA. long time no see.
Helen2
USA - Monday, July 13, 1998 at 17:21:50 (EDT)
I love your movie Labyrinth and watch it all the time! My dad bought me your greatest hits CD. I like the way you change your hair all the time! My favorite song is Let's Dance! Goodbye David Bowie, Your friend, Aidan I just graduated from kindergarten and my Dad helped me type this note!!!!
aidan alexander (emnaidn@mindspring.com)
Atlanta, GA USA - Monday, July 13, 1998 at 17:03:11 (EDT)
Incidently, I'm surprised no-one has commented on Bowie's recent strong showing in the World Cup. Well, his doppelganger Arthur Numan played well on Holland's left-wing anyhow. His resemblance to Bowie (as he looked on the Tin Machine I sleeve in particular)is astonishing, to the point where I suspect he is a big fan who has deliberately mimicked his appearance. Did no-one else notice this? It was nice to see Donald Pleasance in goal for France too, hehe.
Denis Collins (denis.collins@cableinet.co.uk)
Liverpool, England - Monday, July 13, 1998 at 15:22:55 (EDT)
Happy Birthday Ilsa!
Denis Collins (denis.collins@cableinet.co.uk)
Liverpool, England - Monday, July 13, 1998 at 15:12:49 (EDT)
HAPPY BIRTHDAY ILSA!!!!! (also lovingly known as maman, you old bitch and joanie) hope you are having a great day!!!! (sorry, but i never learned html) xoxoxoxoxoxoxoxox
patti (pattibowie@aol.com)
philly, - Monday, July 13, 1998 at 14:34:59 (EDT)
HAPPY BIRTHDAY ILSA!!! (also lovingly known as maman, you old bitch and joanie) hope you are having a GREAT day!! (sorry but i never learned html)
patti (pattibowie@aol.com)
philly, - Monday, July 13, 1998 at 14:30:57 (EDT)
OOOOPS! I forgot the Happy Birthday Mommy Ilsa part! And David told me to tell you happy birthday, too. :-)
KelMar
USA - Monday, July 13, 1998 at 12:17:18 (EDT)
Hey, Kali- David Bowie told me to tell you to hurry up and buy your scanner so I can get the photos from your trip, and David can finally identify the man who tried to blow off his tallywhacker with a gnome. I suggest you make it snappy, buster.
KelMar
USA - Monday, July 13, 1998 at 09:12:39 (EDT)
Aimee where are you ? I haven't heard from you since you and your husband left Canada back to NYC. hope to hear from you soon.
Shai Shamir (db1fan@netvision.net.il)
Ramat Gan, ISRAEL - Sunday, July 12, 1998 at 06:06:19 (EDT)
Well I am not sure if the MB over there is working or not....I could not really post a new message....hmmm. Anyone else give it a try? http://www.ultrastar.cncweb.com/bowie/
RaMOANa (ramoana@earthling.net)
Sunshine State, USA - Saturday, July 11, 1998 at 18:36:21 (EDT)
Just got word - the official site is up and running at the following URL, complete with MB- http://www.ultrastar.cncweb.com/bowie/ Accept no substitutes!
RaMOANa (ramoana@earthling.net)
Sunshine State, USA - Saturday, July 11, 1998 at 18:29:45 (EDT)
Speaking of press clips, here's how the Village Voice demonstrated its enthusiasm for Bowienet in the issue that came out last Tuesday night: "Two Davids: News.com reports that David Bowie (davidbowie.com) will launch his own ISP-network this August with 'special access to David' and 'his world.' To skip the hubris, check out David Byrne's label site (luakabop.com), replete with weekly tour information and the quirky found-objects that pepper Byrne's world: 'This 'Back In The Box' comic was passed to me at Tower Records in Buenos Aires . . . Usually these things end up on a shelf or in a big box somewhere . . . but with the MIRACLE OF THE INTERNET we can now share all this weird ephemera with anyone who is curious. . . . '
rancell
NYC, NY USA - Saturday, July 11, 1998 at 15:11:51 (EDT)
I DID???? (No, Kali...i didn't know I got it either)
Belle
USA - Saturday, July 11, 1998 at 11:15:54 (EDT)
Everyone should check out Hallu's site.... It's great!!! Coldfyr ( a Bowie AND Hallu fan)
Coldfyr (morepi@hotmail.com)
USA - Saturday, July 11, 1998 at 07:00:37 (EDT)
I was just there a few hours ago, Hallu...sheesh! ;-)
Kali
USA - Friday, July 10, 1998 at 23:30:32 (EDT)
I'm desperate... Please visit my site... http://www.geocities.com/~hallu ... Thank you ... As Always ... Hallu
Hallu (bplummer@clinic.net)
Iconicity, ME USA - Friday, July 10, 1998 at 23:13:09 (EDT)
The clock is 02.24 here...........middle of the night. But Bowie still rules..........* we could be heroes.........just for one day* Go to .......http://members.theglobe.com/MrsBowie/ there you got a little about me. Good night !!!!!!!! C U I hope
Alie (http://members.theglobe.com/MrsBowie/)
Sweden - Friday, July 10, 1998 at 20:30:33 (EDT)
Ä va fan........lär er svenska!
Alie (alienlove21@hotmail.com)
Nowhere land - Friday, July 10, 1998 at 20:25:09 (EDT)
BOWIE RULES
Lisa "Alie" Andersson (alienlove21@hotmail.com)
Mullsjö, Sweden - Friday, July 10, 1998 at 20:21:28 (EDT)
You DID Belle? You didn't tell ME! Hrumpf! =:-<
Kali
USA - Friday, July 10, 1998 at 16:43:43 (EDT)
Belle got a bootleg Bowie video for her birthday, hey Bowie did ya hear that. Belle got a bootleg Bowie concert video!
Time Warp
Mars - Friday, July 10, 1998 at 16:32:46 (EDT)
Thanks for the birthday wishes everyone. Nice to see you again Patti and "hi" to Aquaria. Spidey and Don: what a gift! Which leaves me to say: Isn't DB just wonderful in concert! LOL
Belle
USA - Friday, July 10, 1998 at 16:17:50 (EDT)
Thanks for the birthday wishes everyone. Nice to see you again Patti and "hi" to Aquaria. Spidey and Don: what a gift! Which leaves me to say: Isn't DB just wonderful in concert! LOL
Belle
USA - Friday, July 10, 1998 at 16:16:50 (EDT)
Welcome back Patti!!! Normal CD release dates do indeed vary from country to country. In fact, the UK is one of the few countries that releases on a Monday. Most other European countries have new releases on Friday (this allows them to get their displays for new releases up in time for the weekend, the busiest time of the week when most working people buy their CDs), so if September 21 is the UK release date, then I'm guessing September 22 for the US, and September 18 for Ireland, France, Germany, etc.
Dara
Ireland - Friday, July 10, 1998 at 05:54:34 (EDT)
I'm getting a little tired of the covers, but what the hell, more $$$ to DB. No one does DB better than DB. Not even MR. Phish
Joey Alexis (Bowie_Fan_1984@yahoo.com)
Mars, MA USA - Thursday, July 09, 1998 at 22:50:05 (EDT)
><}}}'< WhY tHaNk YoU jOeY, I wAs GeTtIn SiCk Of AlL oF tHe CoRnY bOwIe JoKeS & cOmPlAiNtS.
><}}}'> (Mr. PhIsH)
OxFoRd ToWn, NJ UsA - Thursday, July 09, 1998 at 22:45:21 (EDT)
I'm getting a little tired of the covers, but what the hell, more $$$ to DB. No one does DB better than DB. Not even MR. Phish
Joey Alexis (Bowie_Fan_1984@yahoo.com)
Mars, MA USA - Thursday, July 09, 1998 at 22:34:24 (EDT)
Hi all :-) Well, just listened to MM's "Golden Years", and while I can't say I was blown away by it, I definitely like it! :-) I like the way it sort of slinks along, with the repetitive chord (piano? harpsichord? my puterette's speakers aren't too hot! lol) running throughout. Looking forward to hearing it on the radio. At least MM did something to add his imprimatur to the song, unlike various other artists who have covered Bowie tunes in the past. (Some of you may recall my previous posting on that subject.) Anyway, just wanted to add my 2 cents' worth! Bye! ;-)
Joanne (Couturiere@aol.com)
Boston, MA USA - Thursday, July 09, 1998 at 19:05:19 (EDT)
Gwinny, you're assuming a U.S. release date :) I believe in other parts of the world they act sensibly and release things at the beginning of the week.
Evan Torrie (torrie@etete.com)
Stanford, CA USA - Thursday, July 09, 1998 at 18:39:46 (EDT)
Well, the Manson remake will take some getting used to...not as bad as I expected it to be. What's next...Michael Bolton covers "China Girl"?
'lectriceye
USA - Thursday, July 09, 1998 at 18:37:57 (EDT)
Hi all. Happy Birthday Belle and Kali (belated)!!! So, I should be back online for about a month once my roomie's modem comes in from CA. I guess I have to content myself with hanging with the Irish dancers (some in and some soon to be in Riverdance) at Busch Gardens. Pam, call me sometime- we'll get together again. Love ya all.
Aquaria (offline@momentarily.net)
Newport News, VA USA - Thursday, July 09, 1998 at 17:44:52 (EDT)
The live album can't be coming out on Sept. 21, because that's a Monday and CD's are released on Tuesdays. Sept. 22 then?
Gwinevere (gwinny@aol.com)
New York, NY USA - Thursday, July 09, 1998 at 17:36:36 (EDT)
Next edition of my newsletter coming today, with news of the forthcoming live album. Anyone not already subscribed who wants in should send me a mail at bowie_news@hotmail.com with the word "Subscribe" in the subject.
Andrew Stewart (bowie_news@hotmail.com)
USA - Thursday, July 09, 1998 at 15:42:52 (EDT)
I rather enjoyed the wop wops... If David can do it in the original, why not Manson, or anybody else for that matter? Hrmmmm...
KelMar (kelmarbowie@hotmail.com)
USA - Thursday, July 09, 1998 at 15:36:45 (EDT)
Aki, why Elvis and not Manson singing those parts?
Martin
- Thursday, July 09, 1998 at 15:24:25 (EDT)
Yeah the Manson cover was pretty bad. I was laughing at the "whop whop whop" parts. Maybe Elvis could have gotten away with singing that but not Marilyn Manson.
Aki (queenvolcano@hotmail.com)
Atlanta, GA USA - Thursday, July 09, 1998 at 14:36:46 (EDT)
Bowienet is in the Wall Street Journal today, page B4, the third of six items in the Digits column, which covers "Gambits and gadgets in the world of technology." It has a drawing of Bowie and the logo underneath. The bold legend the item starts off with is "HOW DOES AN AGING rock icon score a little "Modern Love" from the young and tech-savvy?" The rest of it is the standard information, with a witty quip ("Look Ma, no smut filters.") after the description. Except that you all will want to see how the piece ends: "But how many people are going to pay $19.95 a month for this Bowie-fest? After all, he hasn't had a top 10 album since 1983's "Let's Dance," according to Billboard magazine. Even the service's architect, New York Web design firm Nettmedia Inc., is a little uncertain. ‘The obsessed fans will be the first ones to sign up. But for it to really be a success we've go to get beyond that,'says Lane Dunlop, Nettmedia's president. ‘We just hope it will be popular.'" Speaking for the obsessed, so do we.
rancell
NYC, NY USA - Thursday, July 09, 1998 at 14:22:41 (EDT)
hmm..the manson cover isnt quite as bad as other bowie covers i've heard...bowie on FANatic? i thought about that in passing..it pretty weird seeing some of us on mtv with bowie..it would be entertainment, but heartbreaking at the same time if it wasn't you...i would hate seeing that..i'd probably cry...what if the fan was a psycho? all his fans are psycho. i think he'd cope.
alassin sane (punksissy@aol.com)
FAe, USA - Thursday, July 09, 1998 at 12:46:34 (EDT)
hmm..the manson cover isnt quite as bad as other bowie covers i've heard...bowie on FANatic? i about that in passing..it pretty weird seeing some of us on mtv with bowie..it would be entertainment, but heartbreaking at the same time if it wasn't you...i would hate seeing that..i'd probably cry...what if the fan was a psycho? all his fans are psycho. i think he'd cope.
alassin sane (punksissy@aol.com)
FAe, USA - Thursday, July 09, 1998 at 12:46:09 (EDT)
H A P P Y B I R T H D A Y B E L L E !!!!!!
Kali
Lugging Cake & Gifts Up to the Balcony, - Thursday, July 09, 1998 at 12:37:22 (EDT)
Of course Manson is an aquired taste! What else could he be. But then again so is Bowie an aquired taste
Kim
Korea - Thursday, July 09, 1998 at 11:55:07 (EDT)
Hrrrmmm, maybe Manson is an aquired taste. :-)
KelMar
USA - Thursday, July 09, 1998 at 11:41:19 (EDT)
Manson's cover of Golden Years was pathetic, seemed only worse than the horrible covers he had done before.
Hallu (bplummer@clinic.net)
USA - Thursday, July 09, 1998 at 11:36:45 (EDT)
MANSON'S COVER OF "GOLDEN YEARS" AT http://www.deadtotheworld.com/!! Sounds pretty damn good!!!
KelMar
USA - Thursday, July 09, 1998 at 10:13:29 (EDT)
Spidey! Guess what? Kali is going to FINALLY get some pictures scanned (hopefully) so I can see you and the Don-man!!! (Bowie Ref) Although I can't speak for the man, I suspect Bowie would be opposed to doing something as goofy as "FANatic." What if the fan they choose is psycho???
KelMar
USA - Thursday, July 09, 1998 at 09:57:48 (EDT)
PATTI......WELCOME BACK. LOOK FOR US TONIGHT ON AOL.
bart "STARLING" (tinmac2@aol.com)
NJ USA - Thursday, July 09, 1998 at 08:28:41 (EDT)
I think I am a bit off! Havent heard anything about David in a couple of months! Anyone know anything new? Will he release a new album etc! Sorry for my bad english.
Linus (oste@hotmail.com)
Ljusdal, Sweden - Thursday, July 09, 1998 at 04:59:36 (EDT)
welcome back patti. I was so happy to come to work this morning and see and e-mail waiting from you.
Shai Shamir (db1fan@netvision.net.il)
Ramat Gan, ISRAEL - Thursday, July 09, 1998 at 02:28:39 (EDT)
Welcome back Patti - we've missed ya!
Alys (palmer@nucleus.com)
Calgary, Canada - Thursday, July 09, 1998 at 01:51:16 (EDT)
Aki-I'm definately thinking what you're thinking. When MTV first started promos for the show Fanatic, I couldn't believe it. Wouldn't any of us here like to interview David on MTV? I'd probably faint so it wouldn't be much of a show with just Bowie staring at my lifeless body sprawled on the floor. Nevertheless, I went to the MTV web site and they only have certain artists listed for future tapings. I emailed them and told them I wanted to see Bowie. Maybe if enough of us email them it will come true and one of us fanatics will get the chance to meet him and interview him on TV. I'd love to see it no matter who gets selected.
Skyler
USA - Thursday, July 09, 1998 at 01:41:27 (EDT)
I saw half of a "BioRhythm" thingie on Madonna. I thought the whole concept was total cheesy flash (even beyond it being on Madonna)... basically, just show a bunch of video clips and still photos and make some smart-ass captions that have nothing to do with much of anything and run them on top. They must be dirt cheap to make. If they did one on Bowie, it might be good because they would show a lot of his older and newer videos that never get rotation on MTV. But we would not be getting a shred of intelligent commentary that's for sure. By the way... has anyone seen the new show "Fanatic" on MTV? Are you thinking what I've been thinking?
Aki (queenvolcano@hotmail.com)
Atlanta, GA USA - Thursday, July 09, 1998 at 00:13:35 (EDT)
This Bowie bioryhthm thing should be interesting. For anyone who hasn't seen the show already, it has no narrator. Instead, it uses video clips, pictures, and interviews to tell the celebs life story. Like for example, it would show a picture of a young Steven Tyler and printed at the bottom in a strange font would be "At the age of ten Steven drank every day." or something like that. It's an interesting concept for a show, I suppose.
SARA (sel.lubbi.beatles@worldnet.att.net)
USA - Wednesday, July 08, 1998 at 22:22:07 (EDT)
Welcome back Patti, you have no idea how much we missed you.
Helen2
USA - Wednesday, July 08, 1998 at 19:23:43 (EDT)
hi all....i'm back!!! i just got my computer back a little over an hour ago! i missed everyone SO MUCH!!!!! i'll be back to reading the guestbook on a regular basis again.....YAY!!! i felt so lost without it!
patti (pattibowie@aol.com)
- Wednesday, July 08, 1998 at 18:42:47 (EDT)
Hiya All......missing ya loads....having a great time, BUT I'm NEVER drinking again ;-) well not tonight anyhow ;-) Jeaj - still looking for 'the right' postcard for ya ........BELLE HAPPY BIRTHDAY for tomorrow :-) Kali - they have vacancies at Sceptre Lodge if you can make it for next week :-) AND all the damage has now been repaired to Torquay ;-) Ohhhh Bowie Reference....they had the costumes from Ziggy Stardust on the Big Breakfast on Channel 4 this morning......see ya in a couple of weeks...have fun....love on ya XXX
Spider & Donny
On our Hols!!, TORQUAY - Wednesday, July 08, 1998 at 09:11:30 (EDT)
Just wondering who will be the 1,000,000 visitor to TW.....
Alys (palmer@nucleus.com)
Calgary, Canada - Wednesday, July 08, 1998 at 01:28:11 (EDT)
Bianca, at what point of the process do you see a problem? It works fine for me. You must be a registered user to add a question however, or else it will complain vehemently.
Evan Torrie (torrie@etete.com)
Stanford, CA USA - Tuesday, July 07, 1998 at 20:17:32 (EDT)
I have some problems to submit to the Bowie-quiz, because it`s always said that the adress is wrong. Can somebody help me? Then I want to say, David Bowie is the coolest guy in the world! See ya, Bianca
Bianca (BiancDiet@aol.com)
Hannover, Germany - Tuesday, July 07, 1998 at 15:48:29 (EDT)
I have some problems to submit to the Bowie-quiz, because it`s always said that the adress is wrong. Can somebody help me? Then I want to say, David Bowie is the coolest guy in the world! See ya, Bianca
Bianca (BiancDiet@aol.com)
Hannover, Germany - Tuesday, July 07, 1998 at 15:48:22 (EDT)
I like soup!! For dessert can we have some chocolate pudding, Kali?
KelMar
USA - Tuesday, July 07, 1998 at 13:25:53 (EDT)
Soup?
Kali
USA - Tuesday, July 07, 1998 at 12:07:35 (EDT)
Hi people, um I just registered and all that stuff so "HI". I just want to say I think all of you people are REALLY cool because Bowie by far rules, and I've always thought this, but I just never really had the nerve to register till today. Um, as a Bowie related item ," The Man Who Fell To Earth" is playing on Saturday night, channel 30 (which is PBS here in Ga) at 11:00. All I know it's on Public TV, so I don't know if it'll be anywhere else...
MazeGirl (crystalmoon@mindspring.com)
GA USA - Tuesday, July 07, 1998 at 09:05:19 (EDT)
i love milli vanilli, you boys call me some time ya here? i'd like to hear your sexy voices over the phone,
Big Bad Bertha
USA - Tuesday, July 07, 1998 at 02:11:14 (EDT)
IF ANY OF YOU HAVE ANY SOUP RECIPES PLEASE E-MAIL ME AND WE CAN EXCHANGE THEM.
MARGARIE egbert (cup of soup )
Hackberry, Tx USA - Tuesday, July 07, 1998 at 02:07:32 (EDT)
IF ANY OF YOU HAVE ANY SOUP RECIPES PLEASE E-MAIL ME AND WE CAN EXCHANGE THEM.
MARGARIE egbert (cup of soup )
Hackberry, Tx USA - Tuesday, July 07, 1998 at 02:07:06 (EDT)
SPICE GIRLS RULE!!!!! ZIGGA ZIGGAH.............
Penellipi Goodybarn (not actible)
your momma knows, ?? not sure bout that. - Tuesday, July 07, 1998 at 02:04:44 (EDT)
DAVID BOWIE IS FINE AS HELL!!!
Chelsea (tirpuns@laci.net)
umm...why would I tell? Is he coming to visit me???, LA USA - Tuesday, July 07, 1998 at 01:59:58 (EDT)
i personally am not all too thrilled my mm...if you really think about it he isn't all too orignial...he got so much from the man himself back in the ziggy days...did anyone else hear about his forthcoming haircut-short reddish blonde hair? hmmmmmm..... thank you, evan! appreciated, as always!
alassin sane (psaerraugh) (punksissy@aol.com)
USA - Monday, July 06, 1998 at 19:24:31 (EDT)
I for one can not wait to hear Marilyn Manson's Golden Years cover. I'm hoping it's going to be as wonderfully demented as his Sweet Dreams cover. Just hearing MM singing, "Nothing's gonna touch you in these Golden Years" should be quite a thrill if he does it right.
bart "STARLING" (tinmac2aol.com)
nj USA - Monday, July 06, 1998 at 15:59:00 (EDT)
Alass, I updated the front page "Upcoming Events" to include the VH-1 rerun of Cher tonight... It's also on again later in the week for those who miss it.
Evan Torrie (torrie@etete.com)
Stanford, CA USA - Monday, July 06, 1998 at 15:03:19 (EDT)
i heard on vh1 that david bowie will be on tonight for that monday night flashback thing........but i'm not sure if it's tonite......they were vague, anyone have any information on this?????
alassin sane (punksissy@aol.com)
USA - Monday, July 06, 1998 at 14:15:34 (EDT)
Yes Niteflite, Bowie turned down the Zoran part that Chris Walken played. Bowie's quote was that he didn't want to sit around for six months watching his stunt double jump off mountains. Sting also turned down that same part. Naturally I'd like to think that Sting was offered AFTER Bowie declined.
bart "STARLING" (tinmac2@aol.com)
NJ USA - Monday, July 06, 1998 at 14:00:41 (EDT)
Forgot to plug this month's QWatch at Bassman's site before.
Dara
Ireland - Monday, July 06, 1998 at 12:21:33 (EDT)
rEGARDING jAMES bOND, wASN'T bOWIE SUPPOSE TO PLAY A bOND VIILAN IN THE EIGHTIES?
NITEFLITE
NY, NY USA - Monday, July 06, 1998 at 10:38:57 (EDT)
Labyrinth is the best film EVER don't be ashamed David!
chantal harris
USA - Monday, July 06, 1998 at 08:09:26 (EDT)
Well spotted, Andr, Starship Troopers does indeed comtain a very bizarre cover of "I Have Not Been To Oxford Town", by some obscure female singer. It's not on the soundtrack, just in the movie itself. Verhoeven seems to have a penchant for putting Bowie songs in his films - "I'm Afraid Of Americans" started life on the Showgirls soundtrack.
Dara
Ireland - Monday, July 06, 1998 at 04:58:02 (EDT)
I made a main bowie page which is on the Bowie webring. From there you can access all the Bowie stuff I have on the web. It is at http://www.squeakie.com/bowie.htm
squeak (squeakie@squeakie.com)
vancouver, canada - Sunday, July 05, 1998 at 23:18:48 (EDT)
I just saw "Starship Troopers" last night and at the begining during the school dance scene a song that sounded very similar to "I Have not been to Oxford Town" but instead of "Oxford Town" it was "Paradise" and instead of "20th century" it was "23th century" and a few other lyics were different. It wasn't Bowie singing does any one know this song?
Andr
USA - Sunday, July 05, 1998 at 22:06:56 (EDT)
Pat, this isn't fair. I thought this "Rock and Roll Suicide" thing was for those who weren't there! Your experience was similar to a Halley's comet second sighting! Anyway, I had heard about you, Pat, and I hope you come back more often to tell us more about what it was like in the good old days. I'm a long time fan, too, but when you live in Brazil, it doesn't make much of a difference (unless you want to hear about early Bowie articles in Brazilian magazines).
Emilio (emiliopa@pro.via-rs.com.br)
Porto Alegre, RS Brazil - Sunday, July 05, 1998 at 22:03:54 (EDT)
HELLO YOU NORWEIGEN GUY, WHO WANTED ME TO BUY 'OY VEY, BABY' WITH TIN MACHINE! I'VE LOST YOUR E-MAIL! PLEASE MAIL ME! I'M GOING TO LONDON SOON. MAYBE I'LL FIND IT THERE! STILL INTRESTED?? MAIL ME, QUICK! Thanks for this space, Evan!
Zig Dust (zig@swipnet.se)
Suffragette City, Mars - Sunday, July 05, 1998 at 14:40:27 (EDT)
Pierce Brosnan is a fine, FINE choice by me.... Any chance we could have both Bowie and Brosnan nekkid in the same scenes?? And since Brosnan is Irish, I'm sure that fair contingent will approve.
Tura
USA - Sunday, July 05, 1998 at 14:13:17 (EDT)
Hi everyone, just felt to add a comment to tell you Evan you are really doing a good job with your web-page!! By the way can anybody tell me where I can get the CD "Best of Bowie 74-79" with the bonus CD? And what is about this so long awaited exhibition in Milan? I can`t wait to see Bowie again. All the best! Cheers, Bianca
Bianca (BiancDiet@aol.com)
Hannover, Germany - Sunday, July 05, 1998 at 08:24:06 (EDT)
kelmar that is a great idea. i liked every part of it except for pierce brosnan. get a better "good guy" if you dont mind. but besides that it sounds like a great movie really. the whole idea of getting Bowie to play in a movie wherein he gets naked is a good thing.
liz
USA - Sunday, July 05, 1998 at 03:21:27 (EDT)
In my quest to get Bowie to do a movie wherein he gets naked, I have created the perfect premise for a new film for all the girls here!! Its a 007 James Bond where in Bowie plays the villan, a dastardly porno star by the name of Peter Spry, whose mission to destroy the world is by administering aphrodisiacs to all the women of the world. He will dominate earth after succeeding in killing the men Viagra does not. Once the men are dead, the women of earth become his slaves. It is up to Bond (played by the luscious Pierce Brosnan) to stop Peter by going under(the)covers to foil his dastardly plot. Bowie could do the soundtrack,too! Tenatively titled "Thunderballs." If I can get the backing, this movie could be out by 2002.
KelMar
USA - Saturday, July 04, 1998 at 19:36:31 (EDT)
NEW BOWIE MESSAGE BOARDER AND FAN SITE... made 'specially for those who miss the old official site and message board. Includes and unofficial message board, pics of fans, and more. Check it out at http://www.squeakie.com/dbmb/
Squeakie (bowie@squeakie.com)
VANCOUVER, USA - Saturday, July 04, 1998 at 17:58:16 (EDT)
Kali- anything for you babe. Cute website too, Bew! >;-) BTW, I hear Bowie loves Southpark, and has been quoted as saying "It kicks ass!"
KelMarCartman
USA - Saturday, July 04, 1998 at 17:19:30 (EDT)
"A Rock 'n' Roll Suicide" Institute of Contemporary Arts, London, Friday 3rd July 1998 Last night I had the time of my life. I took part in the most wonderful piece of performance art I have seen. Anyone who went along expecting the performance to evoke in them the feelings of the original audience from Ziggy's now famous final performance, may have missed the point of what was going on and what their part in this re-enactment was meant to be. If, however, they'd gone to add an air of authenticity to the audience participation then they, like me, would have had the night of their lives. From the opening strains of Beethoven's 9th to the ending which consisted of furious hand waving and grabbing at our imitation idol we took part in a knowing and very affectionate repetition of one of music's most enduring images. An artist at the height of his fame and popularity who quit, on stage! Whilst keeping my tongue firmly in my cheek I positively rocked once more to Ziggy Stardust, Hang on to yourself, White light White heat, well I am sure all you die hard Bowie fans will know the set list for that infamous gig off by heart. One of the most enjoyable parts was imagining the audience reaction and attempting to authentically re-enact them. What fun! No, it wasn't Bowie, no I did not feel the thrill I used to feel as I sat in the front row of the Rainbow watching Bowie as Ziggy in front of me. I didn't expect to feel that way. After all no one can be Bowie, only Bowie. However, the band looked so sweet in their wigs and fake sideburns (Trevor Bolder). Mick Ronson was superb in his silk shirt and knee britches. He was also, incidentally, a mean little guitarist. I did however, during Width of a Circle, have a few melancholy moments as I recalled the times I had seen Mick him self performing this number and realising that this was something that we could never see again due to his untimely death. Steve Harvey (Ziggy) had obviously studied the film of the original show a million times as he made sure that every expression, every movement was perfect. This did make the performance from the front of the stage a little bit wooden but I feel that this confirms that all movement during performance is an expression of one's own soul and therefore no one but you can ever be you. Equally you yourself can never repeat a performance because the mood of soul can never be exactly as it was on the first occasion. The music was wonderful and admirably re-created. I totally got into all the songs as I know them so well and had such a good time when at the end of 'My Death' we all knew what we had to do! Shout out 'me', 'me', 'me'. After all we were the original audience remember, we were part of the performance. During the show we were all making grabs for Ziggy and obviously all gave the horrified cry of disbelief after the famous speech. We knew that we were part of a very well researched and affectionately performed piece of art. The full seven costume changes were there as was the appearance of guest Jeff Beck which did not appear on the video release as, according to a fellow fan I spoke to, Frank, who was at the original gig, it was cut because Beck was wearing flares and did not want to be seen in them!! At the end I came away feeling genuinely elated and felt that the audience had all had the most wonderful shared experience. There seemed to be a really genuine air of affection for the performance, the band and each other. As I left I overheard a guy calling frantically to his friends that "if you want to meet him you have to come right now. I told him that we want to meet him in character"! Who said Ziggy was dead! People still crave that complete individuality, glamour and dangerous edge that he embodied. We are definitely about due for another Ziggy, our world is so dull, safe, culturally and one dimensional. Is there anybody out there who will pick up the baton? Once I arrived home and during the following day I began to think very deeply about what I felt the artists who put on this performance had said about it and to examine my own feelings. Iain Forsyth and Jane Pollard, the creators of "A Rock'n'Roll Suicide" wrote "To present the fake was one thing, to re-present the original fake was quite another". This led to me to the conclusion that they believed that the final performance of Ziggy was a fake, in that Bowie was performing in character. This is to miss the whole point of Bowie's killing Ziggy off. At the final gig and for quite lot of the final tour Bowie was Ziggy. He was no longer performing. This is what I think terrified him. Many of you will know of a piece of mime Bowie performed called 'The Mask' (from the Love You Till Tuesday film). I felt that the whole Ziggy phenomenon was life imitating art. It began as a performance and he thought at Hammersmith that if he just stood and said it was over he would be able to walk off and become David Jones again. However, he said goodbye but could not remove the mask. It was not only that he had completely lost his own spiritual identity but everyone around him also could not see David Jones any more, they all saw Ziggy. So this character was repeatedly reflected back to him and in the end it was him. I believe that it has taken David 25 years to find himself again. He has had to completely reinvent himself. This explains the different people he has portrayed over the intervening years. Just like the adolescent he has been trying on all the different kinds of people he could be because he had to re-contact his own soul life to find himself again. He had to go to America because there he felt that he would not see Ziggy reflected back to him in anyone that he spoke to. They did not know the Ziggy phenomenon that had existed over here. I now know why whenever I have watched the 'Cracked Actor' documentary (Alan Yentob's BBC film) I have felt such pain and sadness during the scene in the back of the limo (that whole "there's a fly in my milk" bit). And interestingly it is soul music that he is getting into and uses on Young Americans and the Philly Dogs tour. It is so obvious in this scene that he does not know who he is at that moment. He talks about soaking up the surrounding culture. He had to - he had lost his own, spirit-defining, identity. He was adrift in a soulless sea. He had lost contact with his spirit. That's such a lonely place to be. No contact with your inner 'you' because you don’t have an inner 'you'. I believe that we begin from babies to soak up our environment and social surroundings. We unconsciously begin the process of awakening our own spirit so that by the time we reach 21 we have a very good idea of what kind of spirit lives within us. Imagine you are Bowie at the age of 23 - you suddenly begin to take on a different spirit - one that is given to you from outside. No one is interested in the David that you were before, only the David you are now (or the Ziggy). There are fewer and fewer references or compass points to the past as the rollercoaster rides along. Old friends are left behind, they can't keep up. Family fades into the background, new people surround you who bring new experiences, though you are not yet mature enough for your newly born spirit to stop these new experiences having a strong effect on your inner life. In the end all you have left and all that is reflected back to you is this new person. You become this new person but this is an invented spirit from outside, it is not really you. Your soul life dies so you try to rekindle it by taking drugs. This doesn't work so the invented spirit commits suicide. This works but now you cannot contact your own spirit. You try to rediscover your spirit by removing yourself from your artificial sycophantic environment and listen to the souls of other beings speaking to you via American soul music. You come back to England in your fascist phase. (All adolescents have a fascist phase). You then disappear to Berlin and immerse yourself in the feelings coming from your inner life and live through the pain that has been inflicted upon your spirit. This is your adolescent right of passage all over again. The Low and Heroes albums are full of adolescent angst but Bowie was 30 years old! Lodger was the adolescent "look mum and dad I am so weird" phase. Then Scary Monsters was David Bowie as he was to remain, completely reborn and with a much wiser and stronger spirit than most of us would have at the moment of our own birth, as a completely individual spiritual being, achieved for most people at around the age of 21. His accelerated rebirth then went on to the "I'd better try and be a part of society" awkward twenty-something. He became straight because as yet he was too young (spiritually) to go it alone. He did not have a strong enough relationship with his own spirit. In other words he did not love and accept himself yet. This takes us all a long time. Carrying on the theme of spiritual maturity and arriving back at his present position he continued through the 1980s to produce crap. He knew as we all discover within ourselves that he had to be true to the person he was and that actually this person was not all that bad. He now acknowledges that this was his worst period musically. He then decided to try and recapture his youth (Tin Machine) - mid life crisis here we come. See how his spiritual growth has now caught up with his physical maturity because the spirit had already been formed, it had just been lost. We now come up to date with a David that is completely in touch with his own spirit and who can now recapture those heady days of Ziggy and the Spiders from a position of knowledge and strength of spirit. It is no surprise to me that the Outside and especially Earthling live shows are a complete return to Ziggy and the Spiders. He is enjoying himself as he has not done for years. I believe that he has been searching for the Spiders for most of his musical career since 1973, as they represented a true expression of his soul and he knew unconsciously that if he ever found them again he had found himself. It is no coincidence that his last album is called Earthling and that Ziggy was all about Starmen and aliens. Earthling represents his coming down to earth and staying grounded and in touch with his own spirit. After all, he is an earth sign. In conclusion I think that the songs being performed on the recent Earthling tour confirm my hypothesis. He is playing songs that he has rarely performed with such passion, love and affection since the period ending with the virtual suicide on stage in 1973. Queen bitch, Quicksand, The Supermen, Waiting for the Man, My Death, The Jean Genie, The Man who sold the World, White Light White Heat, All the Young Dudes and the fabulous Moonage Daydream. Welcome back Ziggy- keep rockin' keep groovin. Pat Hewitt (a life long fan.)
Pat Hewitt (101.202.3023)
London, UK - Saturday, July 04, 1998 at 17:15:55 (EDT)
Hey! I'm back. No, I didn't disappear from the face of the earth. It was no fun being without internet services for so long. (January until today) I'm very out of date. I look forward to being caught up on all of the news! Ciao!
Sorrow (kidd@riccione.net)
Riccione, Italy - Saturday, July 04, 1998 at 13:16:05 (EDT)
Gettin' kinda desperate for Bowie references, aren't we KelMar?!? ROFL
Kali
USA - Saturday, July 04, 1998 at 12:58:52 (EDT)
WELL DONE HOLLAND :-) **YAY** The cheatin Argies are now out hehehe........bet ya well chuffed TVC15 ;-) ohhhh and see ya'all in two weeks everyone......we're off on our hols tomorrow.........have fun.....missing you already ;-) Spidey...............ohhh and Bowie is a sex god ;-)
Spidey (datkins@netcomuk.co.uk)
UK - Saturday, July 04, 1998 at 12:29:45 (EDT)
4,0 ©©©©  4Kali !!! 4,0 ©©©©  Dear Kali! Happy birthday to you! Keep swinging
Gilly (Gilly@Psynet.net)
Essen, Germany - Saturday, July 04, 1998 at 10:14:29 (EDT)
HAPPY BIRTHDAY KALI!!! (Sorry I missed you yesterday, I was out of town...) Now you're all grown up. :-) And since Reinhold got a World Cup/Bowie reference in there, I'll give you a Wimbledon/Bowie reference. Did anyone notice that Tim Henman, who played so valiantly against "Satan" Sampras has Bowie teeth? Remarkable dental likeness really....
KelMar
USA - Saturday, July 04, 1998 at 09:26:12 (EDT)
I agree 100% squeakie, their version of "Time" was horrible, but who am I to judge.
Hallu (bplummer@clinic.net)
USA - Saturday, July 04, 1998 at 09:17:31 (EDT)
Thanks so much for the birthday wishes everyone! =:-> And thanks for feeding my ego, Bewlay, with that web-page. ROFLMAO That was a shock to see first thing in the morning!!!!!
Kali
USA - Saturday, July 04, 1998 at 01:12:43 (EDT)
the cybercast thing sux don't bother
squeakie (squeakie@squeakie.com)
vancouver, - Friday, July 03, 1998 at 16:44:55 (EDT)
HMMMMMM I've turned it off :-( Just thought I'd 'share' that with y'all ;-)
Spider
UK - Friday, July 03, 1998 at 16:43:28 (EDT)
Just to remind eveyone about the Rock 'n' Roll Suicide thingy that's being cyberbroadcast NOW LIVE.........we're in there now.....it's hmmmmmmmm 'interestin' and worth a look :-)
Spider (datkins@netcomu.co.uk)
England - Friday, July 03, 1998 at 16:20:29 (EDT)
Happy Birthday Kali!!!!! Many best wishes on your big 3-0! And, Bew, I'm quite impressed by the alternative TW page :-)
Alys (palmer@nucleus.com)
Calgary, Canada - Friday, July 03, 1998 at 12:25:01 (EDT)
Happy Birthday Kali!! Hope you have a great day! Enjoy yourself! Jozee.
Jozee (wizbit98@yahoo.com)
Glasgow, Scotland - Friday, July 03, 1998 at 11:38:11 (EDT)
A Happy, Happy Birthday Kali Baby. xoxoxoxoxox
Helen2
USA - Friday, July 03, 1998 at 10:36:18 (EDT)
Lou Christie met David Bowie in 1969 in a receiving line for Princess Margaret.

NEW CD!

LOU CHRISTIE

The Complete Co & Ce / Roulette Recordings

New Stereo!

Rare and Unreleased Material!

Outstanding Sound Quality!

See the Taragon Records Home Page
Joey Vine (sentaur@hotmail.com)
Pgh, PA USA - Friday, July 03, 1998 at 10:24:14 (EDT)


Aha, so you've been discussing the World Cup? I'm sure you're getting a kick out of it. I mean a PENALTY kick.
Emilio (emiliopa@pro.via-rs.com.br)
Porto Alegre, RS Brazil - Friday, July 03, 1998 at 10:12:32 (EDT)
BEWLAY!!! ROFLMAO....you have captured the "essence" of the birthday boy!
Belle (Bellebeau@Prodigy.Net)
USA - Friday, July 03, 1998 at 09:25:27 (EDT)
Bewlay, the alternative TW site is great !
Shai Shamir (db1fan@netvision.net.il)
Ramat Gan, Israel - Friday, July 03, 1998 at 07:37:21 (EDT)
"Mazal Tov" Kali
Shai Shamir (db1fan@netvision.net.il)
Ramat Gan, ISRAEL - Friday, July 03, 1998 at 07:30:18 (EDT)
Happy Birthday KALI!!!! Your gift will be coming up the driveway shortly...hi ho, hi ho...hi ho...it's off to Kali's we go....
Belle
USA - Friday, July 03, 1998 at 07:00:33 (EDT)
Happy birthday Kali - who was born on the day Ziggy died! Finally a Bowie - World cup connection. Yesterday German TV had a feature about German striker duo Klinsmann and Bierhoff. As background music they used Wallflowers´ cover of "Heroes".
Reinhold
- Friday, July 03, 1998 at 06:01:17 (EDT)
Went to the 'Rock'n'Roll Suicide' evening last night. It was a hoot. They'd been so meticulous in copying every little expression and action and vocal nuance. Fluctuated between hilarious and ecstatic. Very Entertaining. If you're reading - well done guys!!
Sinj
London, UK - Friday, July 03, 1998 at 04:52:27 (EDT)
OK, so the day hasn't QUITE arrived in the US yet, but we're a bit ahead here in Europe, as usual. ;-) Anyway, it's July 3, which means:

HAPPY BIRTHDAY, KALI!!!!!! :-)

And everyone out there: check out the alternative TW site , for a few days only!!
A thousand apologies to Evan - this borders to blasphemy, I know!! ;-)

Bewlay (bewlay@online.no)
Norway - Friday, July 03, 1998 at 04:48:18 (EDT)


HAPPY BIRTHDAY KALI !!!!!!! the big 30 !!! heehehe !!! you are just SOO old now compared to a young wee thing like me !!! *giggle* Have a great day ;)
Jeaj (jeej@globalnet.co.uk)
Falkirk , SCOTLAND - Friday, July 03, 1998 at 04:42:32 (EDT)
IT even **sigh** ya tend to go a bit dyslexic on the keyboard after a certain age too ;-)
Spider
UK - Friday, July 03, 1998 at 04:31:56 (EDT)
H A P P Y B I R T H D A Y K A L I :-) ooooh it's goes fast from now on ;-) hehehehe
Spider (datkins@netcomuk.co.uk)
UK - Friday, July 03, 1998 at 04:29:35 (EDT)
Interesting news about the lawsuit. Black Tie White Noise might have sold better if it wasn't such a sucky album! That's my opinion.
Aki (queenvolcano@hotmail.com)
Seattle, WA USA - Friday, July 03, 1998 at 02:41:31 (EDT)
Evan, I spoke to a couple of the employees, and none of them had any idea about the enhanced CD-ness, or the teaser for BowieNet... they looked at me like I was some weird obsessed fan ! (hehe- of course I am ;-)) I haven't seen them promoting any Bowie since the Earthling album came out - even the 69/73 collection didn't get that kind of shelf space! I'm happy that at least the CD is out on the shelves where non-Bowie fans can see it - perhaps the sales will be better on this one.
Alys (palmer@nucleus.com)
Calgary, Canada - Friday, July 03, 1998 at 01:03:08 (EDT)
That's interesting that they're promoting 74/79 Alys. Are they playing up the enhanced CD feature of it at all? With the teaser for BowieNet?
Evan Torrie (torrie@etete.com)
Stanford, CA USA - Thursday, July 02, 1998 at 23:42:14 (EDT)
On a Bowie note (for once) the HMV nearest me has been promoting the 74/79 collection (nice to see, for once!) and the Godzilla soundtrack has finally been relegated to the "New Releases" rack instead of the huge setup at the front of the store....
And, about this Savage Records thing, I remember seeing promos for BTWN - and I'm surprised that it didn't sell better.... I recall seeing it in every music store for awhile....

Alys (palmer@nucleus.com)
Calgary, Canada - Thursday, July 02, 1998 at 17:05:54 (EDT)
Hello Everyone!!
John
USA - Thursday, July 02, 1998 at 14:40:17 (EDT)
Is Starling in the house? I hope not another MIA
Echo Star 102
- Thursday, July 02, 1998 at 09:58:36 (EDT)
Cheers Jeaj! Hope to hear from you soon!! Jozee.
Jozee (wizbit98@yahoo.com)
Glasgow, Scotland - Thursday, July 02, 1998 at 09:26:01 (EDT)
Well, Kali, keep in mind that Americans IN GENERAL are not particularly liked up here in the Great White North ;) However, you tend to be very non-typical - at least compared to some!
Alys (palmer@nucleus.com)
Calgary, Canada - Thursday, July 02, 1998 at 00:30:44 (EDT)
Alys -- you think I'm a "typical" American??? You *obviously* don't know me very well...Just ask the Euros who met me... =;->
Kali
USA - Wednesday, July 01, 1998 at 20:21:00 (EDT)
Why is the news updates thing so grotesquely BLUE? (Though I do like the color, just not here! :)) Oh, and Kali, you are a TYPICAL American ;-) However, I hope there's two BowieNet (<- my Bowie reference) prices! hehe
Alys (palmer@nucleus.com)
Calgary, Canada - Wednesday, July 01, 1998 at 17:57:32 (EDT)
I saw that VH-1 "Before they were Stars" show last night; DB's bit was only about 20 seconds long, as opposed to the 3 kazillion minutes they seemed to give to Toni Braxton and Whitney Houston. Anyway, the VH-1 folk somehow got their mitts on DB's TV appearance in support of long haired musicians - - from 1964! Well he was just 17, if you know what I mean... (nudge nudge, sing with me now). That "A to Z" thing starts early Friday morning. Does that mean they'll be doing the B's at, say, 10 AM?? Perish the thought!
Gwinevere
New York, NY USA - Wednesday, July 01, 1998 at 17:42:25 (EDT)
Sorry Jozee !!! I forgot to say a big CONGRATS !!! <> I will mail you soon :) xxxxxx
Jeaj (jeej@globalnet.co.uk)
Falkirk, SCOTLAND - Wednesday, July 01, 1998 at 17:08:50 (EDT)
i am not at all surprised that david bowie is helping with the rugrats movie soundtrack....they use allusions to him on the show all the time...the major tom one was the best. they also slip in remarks about the velvet underground and the like. oh boy!
alassin sane (punksissy@aol.com)
virginia beach, USA - Wednesday, July 01, 1998 at 14:45:19 (EDT)
Alys -- I would assume it's (ie Bowie net <--Bowie Reference) in US Dollars, not Canadian, but that's just my American arrogance kicking in ;-)
Kali
USA - Wednesday, July 01, 1998 at 13:03:15 (EDT)
Is the price of Bowie-Net in US or Canadian dollars?? Anyone know.... I'm just envisioning ugly foreign exchange rates!
Spidey, I'm sorry to see England lose - but I agree with Jeaj, and her opinion :-)

Alys (palmer@nucleus.com)
Calgary, Canada - Wednesday, July 01, 1998 at 12:44:22 (EDT)
Cheers Spider! Roll on Second Year, I say!
Jozee (wizbit98@yahoo.com)
Glasgow, Scotland - Wednesday, July 01, 1998 at 11:30:01 (EDT)
The film "Whatever," which has "Janine" on the soundtrack, is due to open on July 10th. I know the producer and I asked him how prevalent the song was in the film, and he said it's only a snippet. Oh well.
Gwinevere (Gwinny@aol.com)
New York, NY USA - Wednesday, July 01, 1998 at 11:20:27 (EDT)
Whatever do you MEAN Kali - I WAS being nice !!! :-) honest !!
Jeaj
Falkirk, FLOWER OF SCOTLAND - Wednesday, July 01, 1998 at 09:39:56 (EDT)
Spidey- I am so sorry. And to those bastard Argentinians at that. Mick Jagger was there, but he obviously didn't invite Bowie... (Bowie ref. #2). My condolences, Spidey.
KelMar
USA - Wednesday, July 01, 1998 at 09:24:13 (EDT)
Now now, Jeaj...play nice! :)
Kali
USA - Wednesday, July 01, 1998 at 08:32:51 (EDT)
Spidey - a message for Don - HAHAHAHAHAHAHA !!!!!!!!! *giggle* I was SOOO disappointed for ya *giggle*
Jeaj (jeej@globalnet.co.uk)
Falkirk, SCOTLAND THE BRAVE - Wednesday, July 01, 1998 at 04:47:37 (EDT)
I'm gobsmacked too Kali! I think today was the first time you've ever posted ANYTHING with Bowie-related content.
Rekrul
USA - Wednesday, July 01, 1998 at 02:44:26 (EDT)
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